what Master's?

[grababadger]

Any idea on what masters degree is worth doing within the aircraft engineering sector? I know cranfield has a mass of msc courses, whereas other universites only appear to do aerospace, transport management msc's etc/

Failing that any msc loosely related to engineering, i.e business would be something I would consider. I just want to do something that will open doors for me in years to come.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.:ok:

[Landing Lamp]

Try City university london they have a few course in engineering, hope the links work.:ok:

Aircraft Maintenance Management MSc
Air Transport Management MSc (http://www.pprune.org/engineering-maths/airtransport-msc.html)

[Dodo56]

A lot depends on what you want to do with it. If you have a first degree in an aeronautical subject a Masters may not give you a whole lot extra. Bear in mind some of the course fees notably the City one are quite steep.

If you are in the industry already you might like to consider Kingston which offers an MSc as a mixture of taught and practical modules.

Aircraft Engineering PgDip/MSc - Postgraduate courses - Kingston University London (http://www.kingston.ac.uk/pgaircraft/)

In the field of maintenance very little credit seems to be given, by the CAA or the practitioners, to holders of academic degrees, believing that the hands-on ex-shopfloor route is the only one worth doing (perhaps because the CAA and the practitioners tend to have taken that route themselves).

[grababadger]

Thanks for your input, I am actually on the 'shop' floor already and know exactly what you mean about traditional methods of reaching senior positions. However, I would be interested in anything loosely related to aircraft engineering, i.e aerospace consultancy, airline management-something that is executive and more coorporate.

Fee's at L City are aroun 9k for 3 years, im assuming 6k for 2 years. Expensive, but im guessing it would be worth it long term?

[Dodo56]

If you don't have a first degree I'm not sure you'd want to go for an MSc, even if a college would take you. You would really want the grounding of the BSc first - masters degrees are aimed at folk who already have a fairly good understanding of their chosen field and want to get deeper into it. Any further degree that doesn't build on a first isn't worth much, IMHO.

As an old Irish fella once said to me when I stopped to ask for directions, "Ah sure, if I was going there I wouldn't be starting from here". The better you can define where you want to go the easier it will be to find a route there.

The industry/OEM route generally recruits graduates though it is smaller than it used to be. Can provide route into airline side if that's what you want, in the support/reliability/planning side. Direct into airlines as stated tends to be off the floor but view the licensed engineer route.

I would suggest checking out BSc courses if that's your forte. They can be done part time or distance learning if you don't want to interrupt your work, and you may find your employer willing to sponsor you. Reckon on 10-20 hrs/week study required though so don't underestimate the effort and commitment needed.

One you might like to check out: www.part66.com (http://www.part66.com)

[bala_murali]

Would like to know what is the difference between Msc in Air Transport management and MBA in aviation management?:hmm::hmm:
I have got a offer letter from Griffith university in Australia for MBA in aviation management( Griffith University | Graduate Certificate in Aviation Management - Nathan (http://www17.griffith.edu.au/cis/p_cat/admission.asp?type=overview&ProgCode=3112) )
and Buckinghamshire new university in UK for Msc in air transport management for this January batch?(Air Transport Management (http://bucks.ac.uk/default.aspx?page=10036) )

I have done my bachelors degree in electrical and electronics and have worked in dell computers for 2 years as a senior hardware technical support executive. 60 percent of the people have told me that doing these masters degree in a waste of time and the rest 40 % told me that I is a very good way to enter the industry, especially for a person with no aviation experience like me . :sad:
From what I come to know, nothing in aviation is 100 % sure. So I am willing to take the chance. Flight operation is what I am mainly interested in! But yes if I don’t get through that I can work in other field also .I take these master degrees as an entry ticket to the aviation industry.
So guys I would like your views on both of the MBA and MSc . If anybody body has finished the above programs from these colleges let me know your feedbacks regarding the university also .It will really help me make a good decision. Thanks a million for your time :ok::ok::ok:

[grounded27]

"senior hardware technical support executive" "I take these master degrees as an entry ticket to the aviation industry"

Wow, my position may not apply to your region, but a masters degree to gain a entry level position in the aviaton industry from my position in north america sounds rediculous.

Technical specific training, possibly AS/BS accreditedis great. Most here only seek a MBA for goals in upper MGT, "director/VP"..

Seems to me a career student could do much better in study for a masters degree in many other fields than aviation. The odds are against you in this industry. Nepotism and sutch are far more valuable.

[bala_murali]

Hi there Grounded

Wow, my position may not apply to your region, but a masters degree to gain a entry level position in the aviaton industry from my position in north america sounds rediculous.

even with a masters degree the entry ticket seems to very slim . but got to draw the line somewhere right ?

seems to me a career student could do much better in study for a masters degree in many other fields than aviation. The odds are against you in this industry.

By other field do you mean aircraft maintenance engineering ,especially avionics? Why i ask you is.. when i met most people in the aviation industry and spoke to them regarding the MBA in aviation management . The first thing that they asked me what was my undergraduate degree , when i told i bachelors in electrical and electronics almost each and every aviation profession told me that aircraft maintenance engineering would be the way to go in that the suggested me to a masters in avionics .
Is there gono be any demand for avionics engineers in aviation . From what i have heard they maintenance work is dominated by mechanical engineers since only very few avionics engineers are actually needed (Correct me if i am wrong ) .

[grounded27]

Is there gono be any demand for avionics engineers in aviation

Yes given today's experience, the demand for me to respond to 3 logbook write ups distracted me from my internet surfing 3 times.

Little humor, I have recieved about 4-6 weeks continual training that applies to my fleet as a avionics engineer in the usa, not counting the online and on the job recurrent testing I recieve.

To your question, my airline operates aircraft developed from the 60's to the new century.

Being in an avionics department myself MGT understands that our department will be responsible for the majority of our newer fleet for the most part. It is the leading edge of aircraft maintenance.

But the nuts and bolts requirement of these machines is someting that will never go away.

Practical experience with any machine is and will allways be an asset.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Firstly what's the difference between an MSc and an MBA? An MSc (Master of Science) is a technical or scientific degree built normally upon a first degree in engineering or science. An MBA (Master of Business Administration) is a management degree built normally upon some years of management experience and/or a first degree.

Both normally take about a year full time, 2-3 years part time.


MBAs don't vary all that much, there is a basic core syllabus - although there are variants that specialise in particular industries.

MScs vary a great deal - the important thing is to pick the one that points you in the direction you want your career to take you. Many universities do excellent MScs in aeronautical disciplines, although Cranfield is certainly one of the best. For an aero-eng related MSc, a first degree in an engineering discipline, preferably at at-least a 2:2 grade, would be normal and preferable.

Avionics is a big and ever-growing discipline, and there are various MSc available - normally built upon a BEng or MEng in something like electronic engineering, aerospace systems engineering, or even aerospace engineering if you had enough electronics content in your options.


I've seen occasionally people do reasonable well on an aerospace MSc after a first degree in maths or physics, I've also seen somebody fail miserably after being unwisely allowed with a first degree in computer science - he just couldn't hack the mathematical content.

I can't honestly see anybody coping on an aerospace engineering MSc without something equivalent to a BEng in a mathematical or engineering discipline. This means one with a lot of calculus, engineering science, and report writing - and ideally an individual dissertation.

In some specialist engineering (design / analysis / testing, not usually maintenance) jobs an MSc is very helpful and employers may specifically seek people with the right MSc. More likely, it'll be used to differentiate between already strong candidates applying for such jobs.

Increasingly also, a lot of universities will require (or at-least much prefer) an MSc as a prerequisite to doing a PhD, which in turn is effectively the licence to conduct funded research in many environments. An MBA can be treated as a prerequisite for a PhD in management fields.

G

[bala_murali]

Hi there Genghis

Hi there Genghis
Thanks for your reply. It cleared lot of my doubts.:ok::ok:

I wanted to work in flight operations as a dispatcher that was my goal. I am from india . There not even an DGCA authorized dispatch training in my country .:(:( Was considering doing a FAA dispatch training course at sheffield Florida ,but seriously didnt know what to do with an FAA license coming back to india . FAA license is not reconized in my country.
I chose a MBA in aviation management( Griffith University | Graduate Certificate in Aviation Management - Nathan (http://www17.griffith.edu.au/cis/p_cat/admission.asp?type=overview&ProgCode=3112)and MSc in Air transport management (Air Transport Management (http://bucks.ac.uk/default.aspx?page=10036) )as an entry ticket to the aviation industry. :}:}

I have done my bachelors degree in electrical and electronics and have worked in dell computers for 2 years. From speaking to people understood that doing an MBA or MSC in aviation management without any aviation experience, it impossible to get a job in aviation. Many told that an MBA in operations is also closely connected with management position in the aviation industry and also gives me a back up option in case my dreams with the aviation industry doesn't work.

I would like to know from you ,

Your personal opinion of taking an MBA in aviation management without any aviation experience ! it is worth the gamble ?:eek::eek:


I have 2 option either to take an MBA in logistics and supply chain management or MBA in operation.Which would be a better option to take considering that i want to work in the aviation industry at the end !:)

Thanks a million for you time .

[Genghis the Engineer]

My opinion? I'd not do either of those degrees right now. (I'd also not travel halfway around the world to go to Bucks New Uni either - look at one of the UK's world class universities such as Cranfield or City.)

Lacking aerospace, or management, experience - you have nothing to build on. Yet.

Presumably dispatchers in India are locally qualified then by the companies who employ them - in which case talk to some local companies, but my guess is that the FAA dispatchers licence may be your best starting point in demonstrating employability and competence, even if it doesn't technically work as a licence.

Get a couple of years experience, then ask yourself if a Masters will serve where your career is now going.

G

[bala_murali]

Hi there Genghis

i already went to my local airport . i met with 14 airline flight operations office situated there ( Air India ,Jet airways , Emirates , Qatar,paramount airways ,Etc ) some kicked me out of their office,but my luck i met some very nice people working in flight operation . I confirmed the fact that there is no recruitment or training going on in India right now. Some said that i had to join as a ticketing agent for the airline and after about 2 years i might me considered for dispatch training in the airline . When i checked out the ticketing agent jobs or a ramp workers job ,they said that i am over qualified because of my bachelors in engineering degree and my 2 year work experience in dell . So the gates are shut completely .:(:(:( . Not to mention the fact that my father was staring down at me like hell ,when i started looking out for ticketing agent job .LOL.:p:p:p.

From what it seems i think an MBA in operation keeps my dream to an extent and also gives me a backup in case i dont into an aviation industry. I would also be able to find an MBA in operations in a much better university than what i was able to find for MBA in aviation management. Would love to get know your views.

(I'd also not travel halfway around the world to go to Bucks New Uni either - look at one of the UK's world class universities such as Cranfield or City.)

One last question . Is bucks new university Bad choice according to you .

Thanks for you time again

[Genghis the Engineer]

Bucks New Uni is equivalent to what in the US would be called a community college. It does a fantastic job for local people who otherwise wouldn't make it to university at-all, but it is a long way from world class (the UK has university league tables - last I looked BNU is about 113th out of 118 British Universities).

G

[bala_murali]

Thanks for the warning Genghis. Will count out the offer given by bucks new then . Dont think its worth it ..

i already went to my local airport . i met with 14 airline flight operations office situated there ( Air India ,Jet airways , Emirates , Qatar,paramount airways ,Etc ) some kicked me out of their office,but my luck i met some very nice people working in flight operation . I confirmed the fact that there is no recruitment or training going on in India right now. Some said that i had to join as a ticketing agent for the airline and after about 2 years i might me considered for dispatch training in the airline . When i checked out the ticketing agent jobs or a ramp workers job ,they said that i am over qualified because of my bachelors in engineering degree and my 2 year work experience in dell . So the gates are shut completely . . Not to mention the fact that my father was staring down at me like hell ,when i started looking out for ticketing agent job .LOL..

From what it seems i think an MBA in operation keeps my dream to an extent and also gives me a backup in case i dont into an aviation industry. I would also be able to find an MBA in operations in a much better university than what i was able to find for MBA in aviation management. Would love to get know your views.

Any though on this ?? :) would love to know view !:ok::ok:

[coolblackcat]

Aerospace Eng. With Pilot Studies (Liverpool) (http://www.liv.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/aerospace-engineering-with-pilot-studies-meng-hons/course-overview/)

If you're interested in gaining flight experience along with a degree, "With Pilot Studies" degrees might be worth mentioning.

Brunnel, Liverpool, Sheffield and a few other universities in the UK do them.

[bala_murali]

Hey there MATT

Really man if i had the money for pilot training i would go for it blindly . already have an engineering degree MATT .Taking an educational loan for pilot training is not a good though as i heard from many people . Than other industries the dynamic nature of the aviation industry interest's me the most. Will be chosing between and MBA in aviation management and General MBA in operations very soon !:*:*
My luck nobody from my country has done an MBA in aviation management.:ouch::ouch: Wish i could speak to atleast one person who has done this course before ruling out this option. :(:(
Its not like everybody who does this course have aviation experience right ! People from other industries( I am an IT guy ) like me who wanted to enter this industry would have done this course without aviation experience right !
If there are anyone out there who have done this MBA in avation management without aviation experience .. would love to know your experience . Thanks for your time . :ok::ok::ok:

[woptb]

London City do a number aviation related MSC's not requiring a first degree .Courses are in Aviation Transport,Safety or Maintenance Management.
Students are from a wide range of aviation backgrounds,not just pilots & engineers,although typically B/C licenced aircraft engineers or holders of an ATPL.The alumni seem well regarded & (anecdotally) seem to do OK in the jobs market.

[bala_murali]

Hi there wopt
City London rejected my application :{:{saying that "Even though bachelors degree in electrical and electronics engineering degree and 2 years experience in dell , they said that "it is mandatory to have aviation related experience " :(:(:(:(

[woptb]

Sadly the case, I'm afraid.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Can't honestly say I blame them - how can you train somebody to manage in an industry they don't yet know anything about?

G

[woptb]

Agreed,you need the underpinning knowledge.

[Heliarctic]

I have to say that unfortunately i´ve had several of the types that Genghis the engineer refers to as management over the years....:hmm:

[glum]

I am currently at Cranfield on the MSc for Aerospace Vehicle Design, and 75 of the 80 students are not British. French make up the biggest majority, and Indians the second largest, with a good shown from just about everywhere else!

The startling thing is the number of students who have absolutely no aircraft experience, or degree. Plenty of electronics or mechatronics, but virtually no aerospace. Weird...