Foreign Licence Validations - Do my home country rules apply when I'm using a FLV?

[bb in ca]

Hi guys,

My question is with respect to my Foreign Licence Validations.

I have a Canadian licence and work under various FLVs. To what extent do the Canadian Aviation Regulations have to be followed when I am operating under a FLV with a non-Canadian registered helicopter?

My specific interest today is with regards to flight hour limitations, flight duty limits and operations specifications.

I am of the opinion that I have to always maintain a minimum standard at the level of the Canadian Aviation Regulations to keep my Canadian licence in good standing. However, I've never read any documentation to support that position or if I have I've forgotten it long ago.

Any help is appreciated.

Fly safe,
bb

[212man]

I think you are mixing licensing rules with operating rules. Things like FTL and duty limits relate to the type of commercial operating rules you are under. Even in the same home country you can have two pilots with the same licence operating to different rules/limits e.g. A corporate S-76 pilot versus an offshore operator.

So, without being an expert on TC licences I'd say how you operate under your validation is independant of the TC operating rules.

[rick1128]

I have operated under FLV before. It is my understanding that you operate under the rules of the certificate and aircraft reg nationality you are operating. In other words, if you are operating under a Nigerian FLV and in a Nigerian reg aircraft, you operate under Nigerian regs. After all, the only guys who will come after you for a violation in that situation will be the Nigerians. The only exception there would be if you were operating in another counties airspace. The only time Canada would be interested in you in this situation would be if you were operating the aircraft in Canadian airspace.

[bb in ca]

You're right 212man I am mixing licensing rules and operating rules. Do they act totally independently?

Example #1.
In Canada my blood alcohol must be 0. If in the country of my FLV they do not specify any blood alcohol limit then am I free to drink and fly? I think not. I think if Transport Canada found out they might revoke my licence and if I had an accident and I end up in a reasonable court they will nail my *** to the wall.


Example #2.
In Canada they mandate 3 days off in 30. If in the country of my FLV they do not mandate any days off EVER then am I free to work 30 days with no days off? More so then what Transport Canada would say is what would the court say?

[bb in ca]

Rick1128 I would agree in principal with you 100% but say you're flying americans in nigeria under a FLV based on an american certificate. What would the US court say?

[spinwing]

Mmmmm ...


Ok ....as I understand it .... you apply for an FLV using your "home license" as a basis of qualification.

The FLV is issued on the basis of that home license BUT is now effectively a license on its own .... however in order to exercise the privileges you MUST keep that home license valid (legal) ie continue to hold a medical certificate. If the home license expires (or is cancelled) so does your FLV.

If you fly an aircraft of the FLV issuing state you fly and abide by the rules of that state.

The state issuing the original license should not be interested in what you do in that foreign registered aircraft unless of course you flew that aircraft in the airspace of that original license ... ie you flying a Nigerian reg. a/c in Canadian airspace.

:E

[Pandalet]

It's not uncommon for the FLV to say something like, "you must abide by all restrictions of the license on which this FLV is based". This can lead to situations like being being restricted by the types on your license when flying somewhere that doesn't usually use type ratings.

[ab33t]

The only statement you see on the FLV is that all restrictions of the original licence apply

[170']

When you're flying on a validation, you observe the rules and regulations of the validating state. The licence is validated to temporarily 'serve purpose as' a licence of the 'validating state' for the term of original issuance of the validation and or lapse in validity of the 'parent licence'

Local AIP etc takes precedence...

In addition; you 'generally speaking' cannot add a TR to a Validation, any additional TR has to be added to the 'Parent licence first'...

The only time the 'parent licence' state becomes involved is when 'punitive action' is taken against you by the 'validating state' for an gross infringement or negligence of the 'validating states' rules that ends in tears for someone!

For those not familiar? 'state' can be read as 'country'

[Variable Load]

You're right 212man I am mixing licensing rules and operating rules. Do they act totally independently?

Yes they do. You have a licence issued by one state (in your case Canada). You then have an FLV based upon your Canadian licence. Your Canadian licence lets you fly a C- registered aircraft, the FLV then permits you to fly an aircraft registered in the state that issued the FLV.

In order for the FLV to be current you need to keep your Canadian licence current i.e. medical and PPC. So the licencing bit is relatively straight forward.

The operating rules do have complications, but not many. As a rule of thumb you follow the rules that the AOC you are flying under has to follow. So if you are flying under a Canadian AOC the the CARs apply. If you are flying under a Thai AOC then it's their ball game and you follow their rules.

Complications, well you always follow the "Rules of the Air" of the country you are flying in, irrespective of AOC.

FTL introduces another complication when moving between AOCs. What may be allowed under one AOC might not be allowed when you start under a new one. The days off example you state is a good one. Let's say you did 42 days without a day off in Thailand and then wanted to do some work in Canada subsequently. Theoretically you would have to wait about 27 days in order to comply with the 3 in 30 rule. Alternatively you could approach the regulator, TC in this case, and obtain an alleviation.

As for your other question regarding alcohol, that one is simple - don't drink and fly. OK, I'm dodging the question! I can't answer you directly but it depends if the 0 blood alcohol is a licencing requirement or an operators requirement - I suspect it is the latter?

[212man]

Sorry I wasn't more expansive before - tapping on an i-phone!

VL sums it well, and adds the additional consideration about operating into other countries using the validation and then having to abide by their national rules as well as those of the AOC holder (both of which could be different to that state of licence issue!)

To draw a parallel again - that shows how the licence is independant of the AOC conditions - imagine a Boeing 737Ng licenced pilot. If he works for Easyjet he'll be constrained by the EU-OPS rules and the UK FTL scheme. If he works for a UK based privately owned aircraft, he won't be. Same licence, same country - different operational rules.

Regarding the alcohol, I'd say that was a law, not an aviation regulation. It's the police that will cart you away and prosecute you!

[Troglodita]

Me, I don't violate either. I've held validations in 3 separate jurisdictions on a couple different licenses. If the local boss gives me a hard time about it, I tell 'em I won't violate the terms of whatever the most restrictive authority is, and if they want me to do so, all they have to do is put it in writing and sign it. That usually snuffs out that kind of nonsense.


Um L - Re put it in writing and sign it

Is that not what the AOC holder who you are working for on your FLV does when he writes his Operations Manual including his FTL Scheme and has it approved by the Authority issuing the FLV?

I would imagine that if your base licence for example was issued by the UK CAA and you insisted that you adhered to the provisions of UK CAP 371 whilst employed in OOMEGOOLIE Land the only options that your employer would probably offer you would be Window or Aisle Seat on your one way ticket back home.

Obviously you need to follow Best Industry Practice at all times especially when faced with archaic or non existant local regulations but surely saying that you are not going to complete a task because for example:

You are exhausted
The task is in your opinion unsafe
The weather is not suitableEtc. etc. is the better way to go rather than quoting FAA or TC FTL Limitations which to be honest are considered pretty archaic themselves by many non AmeriCadians!

Trog

[bb in ca]

I think I'm starting to grasp the whole FLV situation a little better.

Thanks to you all for your comments.

[SayItIsntSo]

Like many of you I have flown in several places using local validations. It is my experience that there is more than one way a validation can be issued.
Some authorities issue a validation stating that your ‘home’ licence has been validated and that you are granted all of the privileges of that ‘home’ licence whilst operating aircraft registered in the country issuing the validation.

Other authorities state that as a result of you home licence you are granted a validation giving you the same privileges as if that level of licence (i.e. CPL / ATPL) was issued under their local regulations. New Zealand was one such country where I experienced this. I was also granted a Type Rating on the validation of a type of helicopter that I didn’t have on my ‘home’ licence or any other licence come to that, (which was most helpful) but it was only valid on NZ registered aircraft operating outside of New Zealand airspace.

It is important to read that validation carefully.