Jetstar still has its (many) problems

[Ken Borough]

Published by the Sydney Morning Herald

Jetstar passengers stranded in Thailand

THOMAS HUNTER

January 27, 2010 - 10:18AM


Jetstar passengers booked on a Thailand-to-Sydney flight have been stuck on the resort island of Phuket since Monday because of maintenance problems.

Flight JQ28 was due to leave Phuket at 9pm (local time) on Monday, but the flight was cancelled, leaving hundreds of passengers to spend Australia Day stranded far from home, Natalie Soltyszewski said.

The passengers were put up in a hotel on Monday night and told they would leave at 5pm (local time) on Tuesday, but due to more maintenance problems that flight was also cancelled after they had boarded the aircraft.

Jetstar again arranged accommodation, meal and telephone vouchers for passengers on Tuesday night.

The Qantas-owned no-frills carrier later confirmed the stranded travellers would be picked up by bus to catch a replacement flight to Sydney at 5.30pm on Wednesday.

But tempers were frayed as the passengers waited for information.

"They boot you off the plane and then you are stuck dealing with the Thai ground staff who don't know anything," Ms Soltyszewski said.

"The information is just not forthcoming. We'll go to a hotel now, and we'll find out in the morning whether or not we've got another plane."

Ms Soltyszewski had been on holiday with friends in Thailand for a month.

"I'm not so worried about myself," she said.

"One lady has to get back for chemo. Some kids are starting school tomorrow.

"It's a great Australia Day for us."

Jetstar spokesman Simon Westaway said two unrelated faults occurred on the A330 aircraft, one which required a part to be delivered from Bangkok.

“We are just as frustrated as those customers that just want to get back to Australia,” he said.

Jetstar were sending another A330 to Thailand this morning to pick up the passengers.

“The other aircraft should be repaired today, but we’re not taking any chances,” he said.

“I understand that some people are frustrated but I’ve also heard a lot of positive comments our cabin crew, tech crew and pilots in terms of how we’ve managed the situation,” he said.

Mr Westaway said all passengers would receive a full refund and travel vouchers worth $600.

He said a couple that had a pressing medical issue were found seats on a Thai Airways flight.

Meanwhile, Jetstar has come under fire in New Zealand from a mother with twins who was kicked off a flight because she did not have another adult flying with her.

Aimee Moutray and her 18-month-old identical twins Arliyah and Janade were booked to fly to the Gold Coast on Friday for Ms Moutray's cousin's wedding, the New Zealand Herald reported.

At Auckland Airport she could not fly with the two girls without another adult. Ms Moutray said Jetstar had previously told her she could.

Mr Westaway said Ms Moutray would receive a refund for the flight.

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Sadly the widebody operation is still a victim of being too small a fleet, together with the maintenance being carried out by a contractor (in this case, QF Engineering) who further contracts out maintenance in some ports.

And I'm not making a judgement call here - it's just that whenever an airline is in that kind of situation, they lose an element of control of the operation. Evidence the narrowbody operation; not nearly as many 'big' disruptions - part of the reason being that it's an entirely 'in-house' operation. And it helps that there are nearly 40 airframes to fall back on.

By year's end, disruptions may well be more easily handled - more and newer units into the fleet. Quite a few...

It's a situation that V don't have to worry about for the moment - nice shiny new jets don't fail all that often. But maybe in a couple years time? Who knows.

[airsupport]

Well you get what you pay for. :rolleyes:

Fly discount airline expect discounted service. :(

[Goat Whisperer]

I reckon Jetstar did alright this time.

Breakdowns happen, and two in a row is probably just bad luck.

Pax got

1) their flights refunded
2) hotel accom and meals paid for
3) $600 each towards their next holiday

Many LCCs would leave you waiting around the terminal with nothing.

doesn't leave much to gripe about. I'm guessing anyone who had to get home asap could have flown Thai or V Aus.

[1746]

part of the reason being that it's an entirely 'in-house' operation. .

I suggest you check again!

[Wod]

I agree with Goat Whisperer, handled reasonably well.

Airlines, in a sense, are victims of the reliability of modern aircraft. The on-time performance approaching 90% for all Australian domestic operators tells us that significant delays are pretty rare. Add to that the ability of all trunk-line operators to move pax on the same day even if their flight is cancelled, and it is easy to see why people are surprised when it doesn't all pan out like that when something goes awry at a low frequency, relatively isolated port.

Then add the wonders of modern communication and a slow news week and you get stories like this one.

I don't think it is Jetstar specific, just the rub of the green.

Bit like the UA BNE diversion.

[Bootstrap1]

This is what happens when Pornstar goes U/S in a port where big brother doesn't fly to. When you take away that safety net it becomes apparent how budget this airline really is.
It has nothing to do with maintenance being contracted out to Qantas. If the truth be known a large part of Pornstars 320 work is done by people other than Jetstar.

Jetstar had a 330 problem a few weeks ago on the SYD-HNL route. The aircraft didn't even leave Sydney. But thats OK because big brother was able to pull them out of the poo by uploading quite a few pax on the QF HNL-SYD flight.

Quality is not a word that should be used anywhere when discussing Jetstar international.

[Taildragger67]

A small suggestion...

What seems to come through in the SMH article is not that the aircraft went u/s or that the punters weren't given refunds, etc. - it's the lack of information part.

Punters like to just be told something - anything - to make them feel reassurred that they haven't been forgotten. Then take the 2 mins to update every half an hour or so until resolution.

[Qantas 787]

Gee, the JQ bashing by the media is getting tiresome. Would they like JQ to fly the aircraft if they were not certain if was safe? These punters get stuck in Thailand (I could think of worse places to be), get hotels paid for and refunds. Considering they are a LCC, that is a fair good deal. I certainly wouldn't mind it - and the kids missing school, they are probably loving it. Once again, people never leave enough time in case something does go wrong.

Meanwhile, the earthquake in Haiti continues, there are people trapped because of a mudslide in Peru...........that word PERSPECTIVE comes to mind.

As for the information, I agree JQ needs to work on this but no matter what you tell people, they want more answers. Sometimes it is worse giving them all the details because they become experts on how to 'fix' the problem or deal with the passengers.

[oicur12]

About 20 years I flew to the US on a 747 for vacation. the flight went via NZ. We had a tech issue in AKL and the flight was delayed 24 hours. We all came back to the airport 24 hours later only to be told it was another delay of 24 hours.

The delay was badly handled by all airline staff involved and I have never flown longhaul with said airline again.

At that time, the airline had been in the airline business for over 60 years, I guess.

So tell me airsupport, did I get what I paid for? I seem to recall the ticket was very much a full service price.

[Ngineer]

I hope no staff travellers got caught-up in this sh!tfight. Although full paying pax would have been well compensated, I could imagine it would be very stressful for staff trying to get home (especially with families).

[waren9]

Ngineer

Yes, and no.

If you go away on a staff ticket, we all know we're at the bottom of the priority list when things go wrong.

If you go away knowing you "must" be back in time then having no back up plan (like a second ticket with another carrier or tickets via another stop over) is just plain fool hardy and deserves no sympathy.

What ever one you dont use you get a refund on.

[airsupport]

So tell me airsupport, did I get what I paid for? I seem to recall the ticket was very much a full service price.

We could all quote an odd time or two this sort of thing has happened, however it happens on a very regular basis with these LCCs.

It is just commonsense really, you can NOT expect the same service with these LCCs.

I see regularly where these LCCs have fares advertised for $39 or so, no rational person could expect much with these fares. :rolleyes:

[Ngineer]

Sorry Waren but I must disagree.

Packing up and getting to the airport early every day to try and get a seat on a Jetstar flight is stressful enough, especially if you have a couple of kids in tow (remembering its first in best dressed with these guys). Having to back up for 2 days, then compete against 2 missed flights worth of passengers...........

Other airlines offer their loyal employees confirmed tickets every year. It is unfortunate that our degrading staff travel benefits have become the norm. Definately an issue for up-coming EBA's.

[lowerlobe]

waren9.....

I agree and it is just another form of insurance....

You wouldn't drive a car..or at least a decent car without insurance so why would you not have the same when you travel.Even on a full fare ticket I have travel insurance just for the unexpected things that can happen...

Although a few years ago when Mrs Lobe and I were travelling on a Lufthansa staff ticket and the aircraft was grounded halfway home with a problem with the hydraulics...

I was very impressed by the way that the cabin crew and tech crew walked around telling the pax that there would be a delay of approx 24 hours and that accommodation and food would be arranged...poor communications are the cause of most problems especially when dealing with the public.

When they got to my wife and myself I said that we were not only staff but staff with another airline...I fully expected to have to fend for ourselves.

The Lufthansa crew then said that it was their fault and not ours so we were going to be treated no different than any other pax...

I wonder if it would have been the case with our airline ....

As a matter of fact I have been a J* flight out of Sydney on a full fare ticket and we returned to Sydney because of weather at the destination....which is another story but...

When back in Sydney I asked the J* rep for a refund she initially refused because I had been on the ticketed J* flight and it had not been cancelled....

Then I pointed out that the flight did not arrive at the destination and diverted back to Sydney through no fault of mine she eventually relented....So I can understand the problems others face....

The answer is not to fly with a LCC I guess but what happens if the parent airline has reduced flights or even replaced fights to a certain destination and you do not have any other choice....:ugh:

[73to91]

East West can confirm this but a travel agent friend has advised me that he simply tells his clients to fly Thai to Phuket as it can be cheaper and naturally a far better product and you can have a stop over in BKK. Apparently they did fly direct to Phuket as well but not sure if that is still the case.

For Bali, he says that returning clients are opting to fly Garuda or trying Virgin to DPS as they can be cheaper as well.

Hawaii: I wonder what the 'true' loads are like with Jet* compared to Qantas on the HNL run?

At least with DPS and HNL there are other choices and it is about choice, isn't it?

[metrosmoker]

staff travel benefits.........Definately an issue for up-coming EBA's.

Yeah, because that is an important issue. Lets see what I am willing to trade off to get this in my next EBA. Also will it just be for pilots, or will we be fighting for the entire staff in the Group?

As for you Bootstrap or should I say Neckstrap or Shoelace, because they are a play on words of your title that are original, well thought up and will have the crowds here pissing themselves with laughter.
The A330`s are Qantas aircraft, maitained by Qantas. If Qantas were operating the aircraft and were only operating 1 services a day, then the plane still would have had a problem and it still would have been grounded, and probably for 2 days. The media coverage of Qantas and Jetstar`s problems are been tiresome and overexaggerated for a long time. YOur constant bitching and moaning is just F#$%g boring. Today 06:59staff travel benefits.........Definately an issue for up-coming EBA's.

[maccaj73]

In relation to staff travel, correct me if i am wrong but generally, if the aircraft goes U/S after you have been checked in you will be looked after but if its XXLD prior to you recieving a boarding pass and confirmed seat its to bad so sad fend for yourself?

[ratpoison]

For Bali, he says that returning clients are opting to fly Garuda
Sh*t ! :confused:

[teresa green]

Not even worth reporting fellas. Been happening since Pontious was a pilot, will continue to happen, no matter who the airline is, anytime four hundred thousand bolts fly in close formation there will always be a problem, somewhere, well handled by JQ.

[RedTBar]

he says that returning clients are opting to fly Garuda or trying Virgin to DPS as they can be cheaper as well.
It just goes to show how much emphasis people put on the price of a ticket.

[bbear75]

My friend was flying out of LHR on an SQ 380 2 weeks ago.... it went u/s and he was stuck up there for 2 nights before they could clear all the pax..... but that doesn't make the news :rolleyes:

[griffin one]

How many singlet wearing,thong shuffling Bogans will hand back the six hundred dollars ?
I bet none. But once again great journalism. Find some redneck first ever holiday out of Auz and boo Fu%king who, Oh the aircraft is u/s, Sorry sir, We at jet*will find you some accommodation , Give you six hundred bucks to spend at the Aussie pub in Bangla road, While making a complete ass of yourself with the good natured Thai locals. Then let you fly on another drunken holiday free. But please on your return feel free to slander us to every Scumbag Journo who couldnt care less about real world events.

lets fly j*

[my oleo is extended]

Sensational delay. What better place could you wish for ?? An extra two days in Phuket. The pubs, clubs, the girlies and $600.00 in spending coin !

The losers are the ones who either stuck around the airport, or who panicked and just had to rush home. I would have given the Duty Manager my mobile number and slipped him/her $20.00 to make sure I was the last disrupted pax to get a seat !!!

It certainly is all about choice

[Crescent]

I certainly find this situation interesting. What more could Jetstar do for pax? Short of producing a new a/c from their fundamental orifice? Accomodation, refunds, cash splashed and as many urgent pax as possible given seats with other carriers - they have actually made a decent effort. A number of years ago my QF flight was cancelled - we were given a room, $20 and a morning flight. No refunds etc etc, and we felt that was reasonable at the time. What has changed so much? Yes, pax were inconvenienced. It is frustrating and annoying, but not fatal. Given the effort Jetstar have gone to, perhaps some cups of concrete should have been handed out. Give any airline with poor performance and service a kicking, in this case it seems to be excessive in my opinion.

[airsupport]

What more could Jetstar do for pax? Short of producing a new a/c

Well as you asked, I guess they could have chartered an aircraft from one of the many other Airlines to get the pax home, sure Airlines like Thai or Garuda would provide a charter if not Qantas themselves.

Obviously a considerable expense for Jetstar, but they would have saved against that cost all the fares they refunded plus all the other costs incured like accomodation etc, and avoided all the ugly and costly bad press.

[Tempo]

How do you know they didn't try that option? Not all airlines have jets and crews sitting around waiting for that rescue charter....

[Bo777]

griffin one ... hilarious!
airsupport ... charter from garuda or thai. I think I'd rather wait.

[airsupport]

How do you know they didn't try that option?

Well did they???

[airsupport]

airsupport ... charter from garuda or thai. I think I'd rather wait.

I have worked with (NOT for) both Companies over the years, they couldn't be any worse than Jetstar. :rolleyes:

[Captain Sherm]

There was a time when the masses didn't fly on holidays and that was a time when if you hadn't cracked an airline job by 28 you were dead meat. LCCs in all their forms have given thousands of pilots good jobs that otherwise would never have been there. Would you really go back?

Airsupport....what bites you about JQ? have you flown on them? I have flown international with them a number of times and find it a pleasant experience,. certainly at the price. You sound very angry that they even exist.....if you would genuinely like to see what they're like I'll go you halves in a ticket somewhere provided you report accurately on what you see, not on pre-conceived ideas. What do you think? PM me if you're serious

[airsupport]

Airsupport....what bites you about JQ? have you flown on them? You sound very angry that they even exist.....

Nothing really, I never said anything did.

No, I never have and never would.

I could not care less.

------------------------------------------------

Just some here are very quick to rubbish these other Companies, like Thai and Garuda who I always found to very professional, I guess they are unhappy Jetstar employees.

[maccaj73]

Spot on Griffin One!

I flew BA from Madrid to LHR 2 years ago and had pretty much the exact same experience. The a/c went tech we sat on board in the 36+ heat for 4 hours then the flight was XXLD and rescheduled for the next day. We went to hotels and then boarded the flight the next day and guess what?! It was still U/S and we sat on board for another 3 hours because it was "shift change" at MAD and we couldnt get stairs.

Result:

-BA put me on Spanair to LON. (Low Cost Carrier)
-No Vouchers
-No Refund
-No Apology Letter

AND i paid full fare......

If these bogans think they deserved more, they need to be banned from the airlines. They think they are aviation professionals because they travelled once to LST a few years ago and everything went smooth. Now they are on probably their first ever international trip for $800 and think they are cultured and having deluded visions of self-granduer. :ugh:


Jetstar should have put them up in hotels again, given them a $100 voucher, a replacement aircraft, and definately no refund. They are lucky to get that from a LCC in my book!

[Artificial Horizon]

Airsupport,

So let me get this right, you have never flown on Jetstar and never want to but you are quite happy to judge the service you get using Jetstar??? What gives you the right to do this, why are you so anti-jetstar. I have respect for anyones point of view about a particular airline if they speak from experience but it would seem that something about Jetstar annoys you. Would you care to let us all in on what exactly Jetstar has done to you in the past?

Using your logic I could say that United, American, Qantas, Continental, Emirates, Ethiad etc..... are all crap even though I have never stepped foot on any of their services.

[airsupport]

That is what I love about PPRuNe, the absolute crazy people that post here. :mad:

Where was I judging Jetstar. :rolleyes:

Their frustrated passengers have been doing that all over the news, NOT me. :ok:

I could NOT care less about Jetstar.

[Jethro Gibbs]

Anyone heard the rumour that Jetstar will be pulling out of Avalon in march.

[Captain Sherm]

Air Support

I am not sure about the exact figures but I think JQ has carried something like 20 million passengers.

About 98% of those flights or somesuch operated as published and about 99.5% of the passengers didn't complain.

Yet you carp on about what you READ that "Some People" say and from that weave your own "accurate" whole picture of an airline full of normal hard-working folks.

For your bed-time reading and reflection......have a read:

"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem. They're there every night, they see it done every night, they see how it should be done every night, but they can't do it themselves"
-- Brendan Behan

"Critics? I love every bone in their heads"
-- Eugene O'Neill

"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." --Theodore Roosevelt

I can think of few more damning words than those last Air Support....if you are indeed as all the evidence suggests a "Grey and Timid Soul" then remember its never too late to change.

We who try and often get it about right would love to welcome you aboard

[airsupport]

I don't know where all this comes from, I hardly ever post any more on PPRuNe, and was going to leave altogether some time ago, but was encouraged to stay by one of the Mods.

I spent more than 40 years in the Industry working Worldwide, and I am retired now and the only information I get about the Industry really is from PPRuNe.

I have never worked for Jetstar, or Virgin Blue or Tiger, and never flown with any of them, I have never worked for Qantas either but have flown with them extensively Worldwide.

I try to never even comment on any of them here on PPRuNe, certainly not start any topics about any of them, but even IF I dare comment on an open thread about any of them normally end up getting abused about something.

Is the Industry like this nowadays. :(

Back in the good old days with AN/TN while everyone was proud of their own Company, we didn't go round bad mouthing the so called opposition, I guess there wasn't a site like PPRuNe in those days though, in fact we often used to (unofficially) help the opposition if and when they had trouble.

It appears to me nowadays, by reading PPRuNe, the whole Industry is a dog eat dog affair with no holds barred, a very sad situation.

[metrosmoker]

Airsupport,
You could not care less, yet you have contiually replied to posts trying to "clarify" your position.
You could claim you have not posted anything judging Jet*, but then I could say you haven`t posted anything but childish sniping at an operation you have had no experince with. "You get what you pay for", sounds like judging them to me.
If you haven`t flown any of the low cost airlines, how can you comment on their service. They all vary on what you get for the price you pay. That is the concept of a LCC.
What does the price of a ticket or the type of operation have to do with an aircraft breaking down. Are you saying they don`t spend enough money on maitanence? Or don`t know how to maitain there A/C?
I work for them, and I couldn`t tell you what happened. SO how do you know that it wasn`t a different problem the second night causing the delay?
One of your last comments sums you up perfectly. "Back in the good old days"... we didn`t go bad mouthing the opposition". Well, look at what you are doing right now. Just because you currently don`t work for an airline doesn`t count.
When you stop living in the past and come into the real world, you might get the love and respect you crave.

[airsupport]

FOR GOD'S SAKE :mad: OFF..................