View Full Version : CSM dobbing on Capt makes it to Newspaper

24th Jan 2010, 00:10
Yes it was a closed thread, but presumably because people got a little sidetracked..... Now that it has made the News, it is probably worthy of Reporting points.

From the ever reliable Sunday Herald/Telegraph (which by the way has already altered the story from the print version to the electronic version)

Pilot's rap on booze | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sunday-heraldsun/pilots-rap-on-booze/story-e6frf92f-1225822865529)
Pilot's rap on booze

Ellen Whinnett From: Sunday Herald Sun January 24, 2010 12:01AM

A QANTAS pilot has been reprimanded for suggesting the crew share a celebratory bottle of champagne after they landed at an international airport on Christmas Day.

The pilot, an Australian, made the suggestion after he landed a Qantas plane at Frankfurt, Germany, on December 25.

Qantas flies to Frankfurt from Australia via London, a long-haul flight that takes more than 24 hours.

The practice of the flight crew and the cabin crew sharing a glass of champagne at the front of the aircraft after passengers had disembarked on Christmas Day and New Year's Day was once a tradition at Qantas throughout the world.

But drinking company alcohol on board a company plane is banned by the airline, which has a strict drug and alcohol policy.

The captain suggested the drink to a cabin crew member, who asked the cabin supervisor.

But the supervisor spoke to the captain, reminded him of the company policy and put the incident in a report to management.

That report has made some Qantas pilots furious. They say the matter should never have reached management.

But a Qantas spokeswoman, who confirmed the incident, said the pilot had not been disciplined or stood down.

She said he had been spoken to by Qantas's chief pilot and given another copy of the company's policy on drinking alcohol as a reminder.

"He (the pilot) had the best of intentions, but it was against company policy," she said.

The last few paragraphs are different to the printed Sunday Telegraph, but the rest of the article is nearly identical. (I am not quite sure how these newspapers relate their articles between different publications)

So the Frankfurt Stool Pigeon strikes again.

24th Jan 2010, 01:06
This is a good reminder that journo's read PPrune...

The editor probably only gave it space in the Sunday edition because it's not a big story compared to mid week news...

I don't think there is any point discussing the individual concerned any further.....:yuk:

24th Jan 2010, 02:30
That must be a new sector. SYD-SIN-LHR-FRA.
As it has been said, this is once again poor journalism. Two minutes research on the web would have given this journo a little bit more credibility.

24th Jan 2010, 02:49
be a bit interesting next time said pilot and csm fly together...

Buster Hyman
24th Jan 2010, 03:00
The CSM must be very proud.... :hmm:

24th Jan 2010, 03:11
Makes me ashamed to be Cabin Crew.
The Captain is an excellent pilot and a great bloke.
Anyone want the CSMs name ?PM me

24th Jan 2010, 03:18
The CSM has already been dubbed Amelia Aerhart.
He will be flying around the world solo

24th Jan 2010, 04:34
You have to love the nick names crew get.We have now Amelia who is going to be a very lonely person up the track.We've had the Tehran canary,Tow Truck,6 pack and even the techies get into the act with the captain they called Caeser.
The story goes that he spat the dummy when he found out that for some reason the tech crew meal trays on that flight did no have a salad.So he was not going to leave until he got a salad hence the name Caeser.

Arnold E
24th Jan 2010, 08:58
Name wasn't KRudd by chance??

24th Jan 2010, 09:02
But drinking company alcohol on board a company plane is banned by the airline, which has a strict drug and alcohol policy.
Obviously no staff or any senior management would have had a glass of bubbly on the company if they were working on Christmas day?
Sorry,I forgot it only applies to drinking on the aircraft even if it's sitting there doing nothing with no passengers in sight and you have finished your days work on Christmas day.

Exactly,like the office but that's different isn't it.

24th Jan 2010, 09:09
Name wasn't KRudd by chance??
No but he's probably a big fan of Nick Minchin.

24th Jan 2010, 20:50
i just wonder how CASA who now do Random tests of Tech and Cabin Crew would react if they tested the crew for alcohol as they left the aircraft?

I dont see anything in the REGS that suggests that CASA would somehow be able to turn a blind eye because it's XMAS or Australia Day or ANZAC Day or the CSM's B'day etc..

In no way am i suggesting that the "dobbing" culture should be condoned but i think that there are other issues in todays "professional" workplace where alcohol is problematic.

You may recall that 6 cabin crew known as the LA 6 were terminated by the Company for removal or "unauthorised" use of Company stores. The Union fought very hard and all but one were reinstated. For the CSM and CSS concerned, they were demoted. So i can understand the reticence of a CSM to put himself or herself in a position where their employment was at risk.

Given the newspaper article and the response by TECH CREW management about the issue, ie playing it down, and its not such a big deal, and we have had a chat about it........... Cabin Crew Management could certainly take a leaf out of that book.

Sadly Cabin Crew are not managed professionally the way that Tech Crew (esp Captains) are by their superiors and as such are more concerned about the repercussions of indulging in such a "team bonding event"

As i said before however, a polite no thankyou and an explanation of WHY would have been enough for most CSM's. I would like to know what however beyond that caused the CSM to actually report the matter. There must be more to the story or it would appear that we truly do have a new Canary or dare i say it "the Frankfurt Cuckoo" ?

24th Jan 2010, 21:40
Forget about Big Brother we have a Neurotic Nana watching our every move.
Humour and compassion have been regulated out of our lives.
There is a rule or regulation for every facet of our lives
This is a perfect example.
Nana has police everywhere.In another time they were known as brown shirts.
Is this where we are heading?Or are we already there?

24th Jan 2010, 21:51
All this CSM's action does is drive a wedge between tech and cabin crew. Very sad indeed. The Captain thinks he's doing the right thing, as people are far away from their family on Christmas day, and he is reported. What about a quiet word in the Captain's ear from the CSM. All over and done with. No, much better to report the matter to the company, gain some brownie points and move on. So much for tech crew/cabin crew relations. :ugh:

24th Jan 2010, 22:07
Nice contribution to the topic ditch, and this incident just backs up what I have said about alot of lhcc all along. Very sad. Could you imagine if techies reported cc for every indiscretion they made. The biggest example I see is incorrect flight deck door protocol especially when leaving, or smoking in uniform in public. Better write a report about this next time! Seriously though, whatever happened to the days when you had a quick chat in someones ear. Matter closed. Now everyone has to run to mummy and squeal.

Wouldn't happen with qcca crew. They actually try and get along with techies. :rolleyes:

ditch handle
24th Jan 2010, 22:11
I no way am I condoning the CSMs actions.

What I find pathetic is you bemoaning tech/cabin relations with regard to his actions given your history of mindless, antagonistic, anti cabin crew posts.

You do know what a hypocrite is don't you ?

Look in the dictionary or if you don't have one handy, try a mirror.

24th Jan 2010, 22:29
i just wonder how CASA who now do Random tests of Tech and Cabin Crew would react if they tested the crew for alcohol as they left the aircraft?Does CASA have the desire or authority to conduct testing at Frankfurt airport?
Anyway the threshold for alcohol testing is .02 so as long as it was only 1 or 2 small glasses to celebrate Christmas there is no problem.
The culture of dobbing is well and truely entrenched. These individuals make me sick.

24th Jan 2010, 22:31
It'd be horrible for this thread to degenerate into a CC/techies slanging match. Whilst none of us were there and so don't truly know how this went down, it's pretty obvious we're all united in our dislike for how it appears to have transpired.

If this thread is close to the mark, the particular CSM had better be unbelievably good at their job. It's entirely foreseeable that some crew (both tech and cabin) will be keeping an eye on the CSMs operation with entirely predictable results if the CSM makes a mistake.

ditch handle
24th Jan 2010, 22:34
There are several examples where Tech crew [not Qantas] have been found to be drunk after being tested prior to a flight departing.

My understanding is that the only alcohol/drug testing that QF "routinely" receive occurs prior to a duty.

24th Jan 2010, 23:40
All PMs have now been replied to.
Sorry it took so long...it was a deluge.

25th Jan 2010, 00:28

If you have 2 small glasses (120mls) of champers, I am sure it would take you over the limit.
Assuming they have a clearance from the local authority, I do believe that CASA can check where they wish, including FRA. I don't know how true it is, but last year CASA were reported to have done some spot checks in HKG.

25th Jan 2010, 00:36
The Captain made a bad call and violated company policy. I understand he was trying to 'do the right thing' by the crew, but it was bad call nonetheless. Yes, in the olden days things were different. It is now 2010 and the policy could not be any clearer. The moral to this story is trangress that policy at your peril.

In reporting the Captain the CSM was only probably trying to cover his own A, as he no doubt feared being reported by his own team. Such is the way things have now become.

I operated on Christmas day as was more than happy to receive the extra dinner allowance in lieu of company supplied (or pilfered) alcohol.

Everyone be careful out there!

Metro man
25th Jan 2010, 00:43
Had this CSM previously worked for QATAR Airways by any chance ?

25th Jan 2010, 01:01
This was a total c#&ts act by the CSM. What a shitty thing to do. I hope his working life is made hell by the tech crews because the CSM sounds like someone who enjoys making life hell for others.

25th Jan 2010, 01:11
thx surfside6
why am i not surprised

25th Jan 2010, 02:24
anyone is surprised given the background of the sad individual. I hope the Captain has a professional opportunity to repay the favour.:ok:

stubby jumbo
25th Jan 2010, 02:36
.....'maybe the CSM had just been through the 4 week "re-programming" course -mandatory for those "poor performing" aka -" anti kpi group" On Board Managers.

Word is on Day #1- at least 3 of the group downgraded and one CSM went on indefinite stress leave. This was post the Tarantulas' opening slide show.

Agree, the G.O.D's are well and truly over. Sure- it was common practice in the late 80's/early 90's .....BUT this new REICH has decreed it VERBOTEN !

Already the Clown who perpetrated this dastardly act is known.
Me thinks he may be getting quite a few early wake up calls upline ( not via the phone:E )

Bad Hat Harry
25th Jan 2010, 03:26
Since when does something being company policy make it right?
So called company policy is littered with stupidity introduced by fools to bring employees to heel.
All part of the fear and intimidation protocol.
Once that front door closes common sense begins to prevail unless you happen to have a CSM like this one.
He will most likely get a promotion.
The old motto--"what happens up the track stays up the track"

25th Jan 2010, 03:26
Me thinks he may be getting quite a few early wake up calls upline ( not via the phone )

That would be a shame and also constitutes workplace harassment which I reckon isn't acceptable. There are many ways within the current policy framework to manage this situation over the coming years.

25th Jan 2010, 03:42
This guy only needs to put one foot(operational,company policy) wrong and he is toast.
Although he might require a 300 Euro breakfast next time he is in FRA.
He eats room service Brecky at 0330 apparently

25th Jan 2010, 06:35
The Captain made a bad call
It's very easy when you only see things as black and white isn't it Oh spare me?
In this job it's very easy to spot people who cannot think outside the square.

Meanwhile,I don't think getting an internal room number at 3am wrong a form of harassment.It's a simple mistake that anyone can make.

25th Jan 2010, 08:17
Come on guys and girls, harassing this CSM is just dopey.

Let's all avoid descending into the same vindictive cesspit as this person.

Leave him/her alone, well and truly alone.

25th Jan 2010, 08:50
"Mother's milk" was the accepted part of COS after shut down; not just as a Christmas treat. Glad I'm retired and don't have to be PC.:ok:

Ken Borough
25th Jan 2010, 09:06
Everyone should take a Bex and have a good lay down but before doing so, they should read and reflect on the positions of Oh Spare Me (post #22) and mustafagander (post #32).

Clearly, the Captained contravened Company policy. Equally,the CSM hardly covered himself in glory by doing what he did. IF the Captain wanted to brighten up the day for "his" crew, why didn't he shout a round of drinks at dinner-time. He was, after all, paid a double allowance for dinner on Christmas Day.

Whether you agree or disagree with the Company policy is irrelevant: you have to comply with it. Rules are rules. If every Captain and Manager 'shouted' drinks at Company expense over the Chritsmas period, the bill would be enormous. Get real people but for God's sake, don't harrass the CSM - he's just not worth the hassle. :ok:

stubby jumbo
25th Jan 2010, 09:21
....' OH alright then Ken.

After all it is Australia Day tomorrow.

So in the interest of: aussie fairness, aussie mateship, true blue-ism , she'll be right mate and fair enough cobber.

-Lets give the CSM an Aussie Pardon. Strewth-everyone makes a mistake now and again.

Happy Australia Day :ok:

25th Jan 2010, 09:27
If every Captain and Manager 'shouted' drinks at Company expense over the Chritsmas period, the bill would be enormous.

A small token of goodwill the company used to let Captains do (in addition to the double dinner allowance) [I believe]

Hardly much of a cost at all compared to say ..fuel...or Geoffs wage....or the company cocktail parties for the 'others'.

For what its worth, I know many people in vastly smaller companies who get given the company credit card and are allowed to buy their teams every now and again, drinks, decent meals etc no questions asked.

Get real guys.

25th Jan 2010, 09:30
Guys, while we don't know all the facts of the situation, the CSM perhaps wasn't wrong in what [they] did. If you all start going down the road of bullying and harassing someone that spoke out when a policy was broken, where does that leave us? It leads us to a workplace where people will start to overlook things for fear of being treated unfairly and being looked down upon by others and that simply is a good place to be. That environment kind of reminds me of school...

A Comfy Chair
25th Jan 2010, 09:32
For me, the disconcerting part is that the "manager" thought the best way to handle the situation was to not say anything, and then report it to management.

If what the Captain suggested was against the policy and the CSM didn't like it, they should have actually managed the situation and discussed it with the Captain, rather than the "direct to management" approach. It is sad that the so-called leader in the cabin thinks that the only option is via the management, rather than solving the problem at the time.

I agree with the previous sentiments that nothing should be done to harass the crewmember concerned. I'm sure other cabin crew will be very quick to report any SOP deviation from the person concerned.

25th Jan 2010, 09:49
Opened bottles of wine , champagne had to be discarded down the drain as per company/customs requirements before crew disembarkation at terminal arrival stations in my previous life. What on earth is wrong with saving some for the crew after shut down arrival/duties have been completed.:confused: And to call the CSM unaustralian? I think what he did is a very Australian trait.:rolleyes:

Bad Adventures
25th Jan 2010, 10:39
‘Wouldn't happen with qcca crew. They actually try and get along with techies.’

Ahh typical comment from old Funbags. Poor fellow, you must have really had a number done on you. Rofl!!:}:}

25th Jan 2010, 11:07
He was, after all, paid a double allowance for dinner on Christmas Day.
Another little subtle shot of jealousy at crew who have the unfortunate duty of working during Christmas day and not at home but a long way from home and family.
What Ken and others in the office won't tell you is that a lot of hotels charge a lot more for restaurant meals on Christmas day so as to pay christmas wages for their staff.So the double allowances for crew on Christmas day is for that very reason.It's not so that crew can make some money on the side.
If every Captain and Manager 'shouted' drinks at Company expense over the Chritsmas period, the bill would be enormous.
I agree that stealing is wrong but Ken have you ever made a private phone call from one of the company phones in the office or has anyone else working on christmas day had a drink on the company?
No that would never happen would it ken?
Crew are easy targets because of simple jealousy.