HKA runway incursion HKG

[hongkongfooey]

It was alleged on " demise of HKA " thread that the muppets at HKA entered RW07R whilst a CX aircraft was on the T/O roll, can anyone confirm this ?
Seems a little strange that such a serious matter, arguably worse than the taxiway t/off incident, has not hit the headlines :confused: ( or at least PPRUNE headlines )

[ab33t]

I cant find any reference to this in aviation links

[Bob Hawke]

Strange isn't it. One would have thought one this close (allegedly), would have got out by now. Perhaps a wind up, but my sources seem to be fairly positive that it did happen. Come on, out with it!

[mass debator]

Your a nut....nut.nut

NO SUCH THING AS A MINOR RUNWAY INCURSION.

Maybe in 3rd world africa, but not here.

SHUT THE HKA CIRCUS DOWN

[intelligentpilot]

It was a minor runway incursion. case closed.:rolleyes:
Nut why did you withdraw your post? You realized that you sound like a complete idiot saying that trash? Tenerife would have been a minor incident if they got airbourne a few hundred feet earlier using your logic.

One can only assume that CHEAP LABOUR and the pathetic management (that no other airline will touch) will soon result in something much more serious.

Second officer cadet and washed out below standard Singa Airforce buddy at the controls?

Simon Perry where are you? Expose these jokers.

[Nut.Nut]

there is a function in this forum call "delete message" and i just exercise my right to do it. you can also delete your intelligent message here too! :}

[Winglet23]

Is it true that HKA have just placed an order for A330's and are looking for flight crew ?

[SMOC]

Yep all true, heard from a mate who had landed and was taxing in when it happened, I believe it was CX156 that had to abort.

[AAIGUY]

Should be in the ASR's this week one would think..

Pack of useless lying backstabbing c*nts.
This madness must end before they kill someone

[Bob Hawke]

Oh my gawd! Hong Kong never had any hotspot until these clowns took to the runw...I mean taxiways! The rumour has it thus:-

Apparently a CX aircraft was taking off from 07R and bugalugs was cleared to follow a KA bird taxiing along J, bugalugs was coming from W, went straight into J7 onto the active runway with one rolling instead of making the right turn into J. CX skipper reportedly rejected TO and I believe certain comments, more like expletives were made about the creative taxiing of these clowns.

It begs the question, if it had been a very heavy CX bird doing the departure, there is probably no way he could have stopped before J7, the consequences and ensuring disaster would have been akin to Tenerife. Good work by that Skipper on CX. As for the other clownS, well......you all decide.

Is this another misguided, "I was doing a high speed taxi deal?"

I am amazed that it's managed to stay out of the papers.

[PrettyCroesus]

Hey Gentlemen, The incident was reported on today's SCMP!:ok:

[Sidewinder123]

The full SCMP article on the runway incursion:


EDT
EDT2 South China Morning Post Simon Parry
2010-01-28Cathay jet in take-off scare at Chek Lap Kok
A Cathay Pacific plane with 243 passengers on board was forced to abort take-off from Chek Lap Kok when another passenger plane took a wrong turn and almost strayed into its path.
The Cathay Pacific Boeing 777 was heading down the runway at 40 knots after being given clearance to take off, when an air traffic controller noticed a Hong Kong Airlines jet heading into the far end of the runway and told the captain to abort.
However, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Department said there had been no risk of a crash.
The incident on January 13 occurred when the Hong Kong Airlines Boeing 737, taxiing towards a runway for a flight to Hangzhou , missed a turn for a taxiway and ended up on a high-speed exit off the southern runway. The Civil Aviation Department spokesman said it was investigating and had received reports from both airlines.
He said Hong Kong Airlines flight 128 stopped at red ground lights marking the edge of the runway exit and the runway itself. "There was no risk of collision," he said.
The alarm was raised by the air traffic controller at about 8.20pm as the Hong Kong Airlines plane lost its way and moved towards the path of the Cathay plane, which had begun its take-off roll.
The spokesman said: "The air traffic controller had just cleared {hellip} Cathay Pacific CX 468, for take-off on the south runway." With uncertainty over the Hong Kong Airlines plane, the controller gave instructions to the departing Boeing 777 to abandon the take-off.
A spokeswoman for Cathay Pacific said the Taipei-bound flight had been cleared for take-off before air traffic controllers cancelled the clearance. The flight eventually took off after a delay of about 20 minutes.
"The [Cathay Pacific] aircraft was moving along the runway at low speed - 40 knots - and the safety of passengers on board and the aircraft itself was at no time at stake."
Hong Kong Airlines spokeswoman Francisca Chu confirmed in a written response that an internal investigation was under way. She declined to say if the pilot and co-pilot involved in the incident had been suspended. She added: "Flight safety is always of prime concern to Hong Kong Airlines {hellip} we have received no comments from the Civil Aviation Department regarding operational safety, and our air operator's certificate has been renewed just recently." The runway incursion is the second major incident involving Hong Kong Airlines pilots losing their way at Chek Lap Kok. In September 2008, the carrier suspended a pilot and his co-pilot and later sacked them after they tried to take off from a taxiway rather than a runway.

[EXXMAN]

I could safely suggest that the winner of the "quote of the week" competition can be given to the HKA spokeswoman, Fransica Chu.....

"Flight safety is always of prime concern to Hong Kong Airlines"


Yes i would agree and go so far as to say that "flight safety" at Hong Kong Airlines is of prime concern to every one...........



XOP's ..... The only way to operate.....

[hongkongfooey]

If you needed any more proof that the HKCAD is rotten with corruption and full of completely inept morons, then the above incident should remove ALL doubt.

I should'nt be surprised by anything that happens in this place and yet every day, I am :ugh:

However, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Department said there had been no risk of a crash

I think THIS is the quote of the week Exx :ok:
I guess there was no risk of a crash at Tenerife until fog got added into the mix. I wonder ( retorical ) what the outcome would have been in visibility like today :confused::eek:
But lets face it, money talks around here and as long as Hainan and a certain SH are involved it's unlikely they will do anything until there is a smoking hole in the ground, which can't be too far away :rolleyes:

[AAIGUY]

No risk?.

Do the wings of a B777 not extend over the RW onto the high speed taxiway which the HKA muppets were wrongly parked?
I'm writing a reply to SCMP right now.. doubt it will make the editorials as its points out the flaws in the "article"

[AAIGUY]

Sent to news @ scmp .com

I suggest others do the same and get this story right. I highly doubt we will see it published as its accurate, unlike Simon Parry's normal garbage.

"Once again your article regarding aviation in Hong Kong was way off the mark and failed to address the incident in anything
other than alarmist. This is the second time a Hong Kong Airlines aircraft has endangered lives in the past 2 years simply trying to
taxi at HKIA. Should the article not have reflected that? Or the questionably safety record of HKA, or even perhaps how the alert Cathay
Pacific crew averted disaster? Quoting individuals at the Hong Kong CAD saying there is no danger is both misleading and false.
There was very real danger. The wings of the departing aircraft extend over the runway onto the taxiway which the Hong Kong Airlines jet
was wrongly on. There would have been definite contact and there would have been definite loss of life. In 1977 two passenger jets struck
each other in Tenerife and killed 583 people. We came within seconds of that last week here in Hong Kong, for no other reason than the pilots of Hong Kong Airlines being unable to listen to a taxi clearance in English and understand a simple taxi chart. How much longer will the lack of safety and basic airmanship be allowed to endanger the Hong Kong public."

[mass debator]

Nutter nutter

Good to see you exercise your right to delete dumb posts as well as exercising your right to be a d!ckhead.

Dear CAD

Why are you waiting for HKA to kill hundreds of people before taking any action?

It has been brought to your attention many times over many incidents including 2 newspaper articles. When will you realise that the HKA funded trips to Sanya for whores and dimsum will only give you rashes on your d!ck? Helping HKA out by sweeping all their F#ck ups under the carpet will only lead to a very embarrasing revelation from an international inquiry as to why these singa clowns were aloud to stay here for so long.

SHUT THEM DOWN BEFORE THEY KILL SOMEONE!

[drool69er]

Dear Sir/Madam

I wish to refer to your article today 28 January 2010 regarding Hong Kong Airlines runway incursion.

I feel that the article does not portray the seriousness of this incident.

This is the second time HKA has been involved in such serious incidents, and the second time your newspaper has watered down the story and failed to explain to the public how close this airline has come to killing hundreds of people.

I am sure you are aware of the tragedy at Tenerife many years ago which has very similar cirumstances. Had the visibility not been good on the night of the 13th, neither the tower nor the Cathay captain would have any idea that HKA had mistakingly taxied onto the departure runway, and there most certainly would have been a tragedy of Tenerife proportions.

Therefore I would appreciate that the journalist concerned re-write his article with a bit more fore thought and investigation and at the very least portray to the public(who have a right to know) the dangers HKA have put the public in.

As a suggestion perhaps you could ask the CAD why they have done nothing to ensure HKA improve their safety standards (2 similar incidents of the same seriousness is totally unacceptable). Now is it no longer a case of it being dangerous to fly with HKA, but it is dangerous for other airline operators to be near them.

Your consideration is greatly appreciated.

Yours sincerely

[HKAir]

From: Hong Kong Airlines

To: Fragrant Harbour forum


It has come to our attention that members of this forum has been making negative remarks regarding our airline and employees. Hong Kong Airlines therefore will make the following comments in response.

Regarding the so-called runway incursion, well, did our plane actually went on the runway? No, he stopped before that. If our pilots were so stupid as to actually go on the runway, they deserve to die.

What about the passenger's safety? Well, you are not so naive as to believe we actually care for passenger safety. Let me get one thing straight. The bottom line is always about money and nothing else. So what if this means "cutting corners" on pilot training? If it can save us a few bucks then that's fine with me. And who do you think you are? A bunch of overpaid and glorified bus drivers. I suggest all of you get off your fat lazy aussie arse and do some real flying. We can fire you or cut your wages whenever we like. We are the bosses. Remember that.

And if you whine and bitch so much, go back to down under. Why are you still here? Because you can't cut it in Australia? Well you can join us, we do need some cheap labour.

Best Regards,
Hong Kong Airlines-We can and we will screw you.

P.S-This is a parody.

[AAIGUY]

funny.. like the "Singaswine 'the management'" posts..

god they're a useless bunch of pricks.

[BMM389EC]

Credit is mainly due to ATC-it was them that told 468 to stop the take-off.

[Bob Hawke]

" Holy snappin' dim sum Batman, did you see that! The jokers at HKA have slipped another one passed the CAD! How did they cunningly do that without any haze. It must have been planned to show the incredible skills they have at demonstrating 180 turns onto active runways. What will they think of next?? " Boy Wonder turns to the Runway and sees vis down 900 metres, scatches his bat training wings, and quips, " But today, we wont see what they are doing, so it should be safe enough."

Batman says, " On the contrary Robin, load up the Batmoplane, we're off to Sanya to get to the bottoms of this."

[PrettyCroesus]

Extremely disappointed with the article. Simon Parry had downplayed the seriousness of the incident.:confused:
Seems plausible that CAD officials are taking kickbacks (cheap whores/dimsum??) from those scumbags. Contemplating to lodge a complaint [incognito] to ICAC. We can't cheat death thrice!!!

[LapSap]

Yes, well done to the fairly newly rated guy in the tower for spotting the incursion in time.
Lets hope his eyes aren't too glazed over to spot the next one after he reads his payslip this morning.
What's that- 5 pay cuts and 2 pay freezes in the last 10 years? :ugh:

[Bob Hawke]

Story is the Tower guy saved the day, not the nut holding the control column on the HKA73. It could have been a very different outcome. :mad:

So this airline has passed all the necessary safety audits required by the CAD? Me thinks not.

The Challenge is to see the SCMP rise to mark, correct the story and get to the bottom of the rot, expose all. Obviously forked tongues are becoming endemic at HKA and CAD?

[Michael Hunt]

CLK would have to be one of the most straight forward airports to taxi around even for visiting airlines let alone those that call it "home".
Hope these useless pricks never have to have a crack at finding there way around Narita at night.

[Sidewinder123]

I have to agree, you can't get a more easy and clear taxiway then HKG. How HKA keep on messing it up is a real mystery. Then again, given the questionable quality of it's management, it's no real surprise, is it?

[mass debator]

You're right. Its all down to management and they are the ones who should be held accountable for this.

Good place to start would be to find out how Richard Lai (who failed miserably at his TRE and was told not to come back) somehow managed to get one thru a non CAD approved organisation. The ignorant and stupid leading the ignorant and stupid.

[av.crew]

:ugh: :confused:

[The Wraith]

God help them if they end up at night in Narita! That will cause chaos! But then, the Japanese are probably not as easy to coerce or hoodwink as the CAD so they probably won't get away with it there!:eek::eek::eek:

[Nut.Nut]

Masxxrbator, No problem, send in more cannon fodder, WE NEED YOU!:ok:

[TRUESTORY]

ok guys, you think you are all professionals, not really...

pls respect the truth but you never did:=

that was a dark night, hka cleared to taxi j j1 holding point 07R for departure, when they turned to j7 before stop bar stopped by themselves.
they told ground control position and waitted for further instructions that is normal procedure for professional pilots when they facing problems on ground manoeuvre.

in the meantime, a CX cleared for take off at 07R threshold and cancelled for take off by tower in a second,CX vacated ruway via j2 afterwards that was not like newspaper showed us he took off in 25L,sucks! wrong information to the public, so bad!!!:ugh:

when ruway was clear,hka cleared to enter the ruway via j7 vacate via j8 by tower and join j taxiway continued his trip.

from j2 to j7 stop bar about 3000 meters long so how do you think 777 's wingspan....?

so how can you blame them befor you know the truth?

as professionals we may facing problems upon airplnes moving whenever on ground or in the air, that's your risky job, you think you never ever facing a problem in your life? come on...

good for hka guys this time, they just keep quiet and wait for justice:ok:

[mass debator]

TRUESTORY???.......another pathetic BAD ENGRISH disguise. A very bad attempt by the singasnakes to TRY and cover their miserable pathetic operation and prevent the truth.

You snakes truly are a disgrace to the human race.

[throw a dyce]

''That was a dark night.'' As opposed to needing a full moon to see the taxiway boards and green centrelines.:D
At least they had the sense to stop at a red stopbar,unlike a couple of other airlines in the early day,who still fly there.
So the runway incursion actually wasn't,just a switched on controller taking very prompt action,because two dopes behind the wheel got a bit lost.Or was it?
I used to use H whenever possible because funnily enough I thought there was a possibility of someone getting lost down there.If you missed H then J was available.If you miss J the next stop is the runway.However I never thought I would be proved right.:suspect:

[mass debator]

that was a dark night
....sounds like the start of a romance novel........a dark night huh...so that's you excuse for taking off on taxiway and entering J7 almost causing a tragedy? Did they switch off the taxi lights just to spite you guys? How come no other airline has the same problem...and they aren't even based here. Your excuse is nothing short of a childish excuse.

told ground control position and waitted for further instructions that is normal procedure for professional pilots when they facing problems on ground manoeuvre.........professional pilots at their home base DON'T get into that situation..at an outstation that maybe understandable.


from j2 to j7 stop bar about 3000 meters long so how do you think 777 's wingspan....?

......you're english is so bad you don't understand AA1GUY's explanation.....hence why you and your singa snakes will never be good pilots....you just have got no idea.

good for hka guys this time, they just keep quiet and wait for justice.......yeah...good on you guys for f#cking up the most easiest of taxi ways AT YOUR HOME BASE.

Face the facts singasnake....there is no excuse for your existence in aviation. Go home.

[AGNES]

Lets put the record straight. The 3 letters code of Hong Kong Airlines is CRK not HKA.:O

[throw a dyce]

Perhaps the lessons from Milan are more relevant.
Tenerife wasn't a runway incursion,it was taking off without clearance.Both aircraft were on the runway with the knowledge of the controller.
In single runway CLK days if you used the phraseology ''Be ready immediate'' to some nameless Chinese airlines,they would roll anyway:ugh:.I had several that took off without clearance,and it was easier to let it go,because the lander was just vacating.Tenerife several times over.
Perhaps this should be a lesson to everyone,that incidents/accidents can happen when all the factors line up and to anyone.:hmm:

[NoseGear]

Im trying to figure out which management idiot truestory is......clearly not a pilot, because I can't begin to fathom the stupidity of that post, simply unbelievable garbage:ugh:

tsimbeit.....is your recital an attempt at an explanation, or highlighting what might have been.....?

I cannot see how a "professional" crew could cross 2 taxiways and turn up a high speed exit....its not like they're not clearly lit and signed....mind you, it was a "dark night":rolleyes: Arent they all?:E

[Bluestar51]

Tsimbeit,

I've been do'n this a long time, and there are two things for sure. Arrogrance kills and there is nothing that gets my attention more than taxing or worse backtaxing on the active when its WOXOF.

BS

[hkadaily]

Bluestar,

I must disagree about your comment on 'arrogance'. Arrogance is a pre-requisite at CX and we have never killed anyone. :cool:
What will kill people is lack of flying ability and decision making that the Singawhores seem incapable of achieving.
These guys are the laughing stock of SQ. Had a beer with some of the SQ guys that know the management at HKA. I was told that guys like SW, RL, PK etc etc had always struggled at SQ. None of them were even considered for command. The fact of the matter is that they shouldnt have been considered for S/O positions at SQ.

[Lowkoon]

Ok Tsimbeit, geographically confused on taxi ways.

Has anyone considered that Singaporeans are notoriously bad at ground navigation (Taipei, now HKG) because all they ever have to do at home is "Follow The Greens?" Has the automated taxi system made them incapable of reading a 10-9 chart? A genuine question, I think it may be a contributing factor if in fact the guys were ex singas.

Sorry to introduce a genuine question into such an emotive discussion.

Good work ATC for.... Well, for bloody everything really! :ok:

[NoseGear]

tsimbeit....your splitting hairs there arent you mate? Tell me, if the 777 had continued and the left wing went thru the cockpit of the HKA, (thereby eliminating 2 oxygen thieves), what would you call that? The simple fact is, they got lost, again, at their home port, and nearly caused a major accident.

I await the next Jepp update with all those red "hotspot" cirlces completely surrounding HKIA....:rolleyes::E

[HKAir]

From: Hong Kong Airlines

To: Fragrant Forum Members

As the management representative from Hong Kong Airlines, I must express my strong disagreement and outrage over the continuing slander and innuendo directed at my airline in this forum. We therefore will clarify the following points:

1. On this alleged "runway incursion", we admit our pilots aren't the brightest or the most capable. But you must understand their background. Back where they are from, a taxiway is no different from a runway, so they are easily confused. They can takeoff in whichever direction they like. They are just exporting their method to HKG. What's wrong with that? This saves us the trouble and expense of actually training them. They can rely on their "gut" instincts. Besides, the standard of our pilots can be used as good training for the fine ATC folks here. They help to make sure the ATC are on their toes.

2. Watch out over some of the more nasty comments you are making. We have mainland "connections". We can easily order some of our pla/intelligence "comrades" to come down here and "sort" you guys out. Muhahahaha (evil laugh).

3. Do you honest believe we give a #$%% about what you think? If we want, we have the "power" to force a "change" in your career. How about flying a banana cargo plane to Somalia? I bet those pirates there could used some pilots to fly their loot. Muhahahahaha. (More evil laugh).

Best Regards,
Hong Kong Airlines-We ARE going to scew you.

P.S-This is a parody.

[KITEFLY76]

One morning in KL airspace the Cathay guys sounded like an Aussie cant even readback the STAR clearance and in PEN,ATC had to tell the Cathay guys twice the ATC clearance,they cant readback the airways correctly.6 for the ENGLISH.(so called)

[404 Titan]

KITEFLY76

Nice try attempting to deflect the topic away from what is a discussion about HKA to a discussion about CX and the poor standards of ATC in KUL.

Maybe it’s the KUL ATC that needs to look closely at their level of English and how they use it with native English speakers. Deviation from standard ICAO RT and you are asking for trouble. That goes for pilots and ATC. I’ve been in there more times than I can count and the standards of ATC leave a lot to be desired. :yuk:

[Night Watch]

KITEFLY76

You talk about English standards in your post, yet I had to read it 3 times to understand what you were saying! Classic case of the "Pot calling the Kettle black"

[LongTimeInCX]

if the 777 had continued and the left wing went thru the cockpit of the HKA, (thereby eliminating 2 oxygen thieves), what would you call that?


erm..... Natural selection?

[404 Titan]

tsimbeit

I suggest you go and buy a packet of sliced Swiss Cheese and kiss that last slice for not allowing all the holes to line up again. Unless you guys lift your standards significantly though, those holes will eventually line up and claim some poor unsuspecting people their lives.

The point I am making is the red stop bar lights were the last slice in the Swiss Cheese. Again it prevented what could have been a fatal accident. Any reputable airline strives not to go near even the first layer while it would appear your airline is quite happy to use it as an error filter.

[Bob Hawke]

It is standard procedure to follow standard procedure!

[mass debator]

Who is this Tsembeit tosser???


Man, what a f#cking loser.........

Dude, it is YOU who needs major major help. Get some PLEASE!

[throw a dyce]

I think Tsembit said,
What a display of spitefulness or gloating.
HK aviation has been blessed with a bunch of know it all/smartalecs with a ubermenschen :confused: mentality.( I don't think it's complimentary):uhoh:

The english bit.Haven't got a clue.:bored:

[Bluestar51]

HKAdaily,

I must disagree about your comment on 'arrogance'. Arrogance is a pre-requisite at CX and we have never killed anyone

There's a fine line between arrogance and confidence. I would like to think a CX pre-requisite is confidence. :).

All pilots make mistakes. I have a logbook full of "I ain't never going to do that again." I've seen CX do some things that caused me to pause. Last winter at KJFK I saw one of the CX B777s taxing out for take off with a load of snow on it. Another aircraft and the tower said something to them about it. At first CX ignored the comments (arrogrance ?), then the voice of reason came over the radio (different than the first voice) and said two things "We'd like to return to the gate and thanks to the aircraft that told us about the snow."

This is not a criticism of CX, just a comment. I do a lot of commuting on CX.

BS

[PrettyCroesus]

CX pilots are indisputably the best (in terms of skills/airmanship) in the industry. There is not a single disaster occur since the 70's bombing in CX history. It's an insult to compared CX with HX:confused: No one of sound mind would brought up such comparison.:=
They are what they paid for. HX pilots are not treated and paid decently and how could all of us expect they will put their heart and sound mind to work!!! The worst is to put those scumbags Singaporeans to run the management:= Double whammy!
HX is going to be doomed for sure. But when? I am waiting for the demise of HX fairly soon. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they won't endanger the life of others before their official closure.

[etops777]

Has anyone considered that Singaporeans are notoriously bad at ground navigation (Taipei, now HKG)

Suggest you do a research on the nationality of the Captain of the SQ accident in Taipei before posting any sarcastic remark.

[etops777]

Maybe it’s the KUL ATC that needs to look closely at their level of English and how they use it with native English speakers. Deviation from standard ICAO RT and you are asking for trouble. That goes for pilots and ATC. I’ve been in there more times than I can count and the standards of ATC leave a lot to be desired.


Maybe it was CX crew that's having trouble understanding ATC on that given day. I have flown many times into Australia and many times the standard of AUS ATC has a room for an improvements. :sad:

[PrettyCroesus]

The Captain in charge of that fateful SQ flight in Taipei is a Malaysian. No wonder there were misunderstandings between the CX pilots and the Malaysian Contollers. :ok:

[PrettyCroesus]

Sadly, Miss Pauline Kee could not even secure her GM HR job even though she had been so faithful to the bosses : executing the sacking of all comptent staff, implementing the famous apothegm and doing tonnes of dirty works.........

[404 Titan]

etops777

You won’t get any argument from me about Australian ATC. It’s the second best ATC system in the world after all.:E

Regarding KUL ATC. They are generally OK except sometimes they speak way too quickly. With their Malay accent it can at times be difficult to understand them, especially if you haven’t been in there for a while. If you don’t understand them you ask them to say it again. It is the only safe thing to do.:ok:

tsimbeit

Do you have a problem focussing? This is a thread about your airline, not about some psycho babble and fairies at the bottom of the garden. Your airline came within a few metres of causing a disaster and you can’t see their failings. What if the stop bar lights were off? They sometimes are. HKG is your airlines home port after all. This is a failing by the crew on the day but more importantly it has exposed a gaping hole in your airlines culture when you (presumably a manager there) cann't even see these failings.

I don’t and have never worked for HKA so therefore I have no axe to grind with them. We all make mistakes. It is how you deal with these mistakes that will determine whether you will learn from them.

[etops777]

404 Titan

The best ATC in the world......Got to be USA....very practical, logical way of handling traffics in 1 of the busiest airport/airspace in the world. UNDISPUTED, PERIOD:ok:

[arba]

hahaha ! spot on "777"!

[404 Titan]

etops777

I was thinking more along the lines of the rest of the world. I would love to see some of the ATC controllers from Sydney go to JFK or LHR for a few months and learn how to do the job properly. And yes I am Australian. It says a lot really doesn’t it?:ugh:

[NVpilot]

Enough willy wagging, let's be happy the ATC in Hong Kong is some of the best in the world. :cool:

[throw a dyce]

From memory the stop bars are automatically selected on the high speed exits according to which runway is selected.This is to prevent the situation that nearly happened.There is no need to have a stop bar deselected in that area,and you only deselect them to allow something to enter the runway.
Also you used to be able to select the default taxi route in that area.What I'm a little concerned is that Ground South didn't pick it up sooner,although in practice you can be looking at the south /west /cargo aprons.
Runway incursions can happen for all sorts of reasons especially if you start introducing vehicles into the equation.There was another layer of Cheese to go on this incident.The pilot noticed eventually and stopped.The stopbar stopped the aircraft.I'm sure GMS told the aircraft to stop.AMS told the departure to stop.Very good call.There is also a warning on the Surface movement radar,so the controller can see if there is a problem.I wouldn't have thought that situation would have triggered an alert because the aircraft didn't cross the stop bar.
Perhaps Hong Kong Airlines would be wise to look up what happened at Milan,and stop talking a load of old c:mad:ck.

[Aussiestinks]

I do work for Hong Kong Airlines for real.

Yes, our management ain't the best, but we are trying as hard as we can to do the best job under less then ideal conditions. I won't name names here, but let me just say we are doing our best in spite of the management. As for this incursion, no one at this point know the full facts. All we have is a newspaper article which may or may not represent a true picture. I suggest you all wait until we get more details before you all jump the gun.

And this "collusion" between CAD? Have any of you heard of ICAC in Hong Kong? Don't kid me. If we were to give any kind of bribes, ICAC will be on our asses before the day is out.

And as for you mass debator, snakeslugger, prettycrosesus and 404 Titan, you must be those expat pilots fired earlier. Well, sucks to be you. But life ain't fair. Trying to get even with your ex-employer won't help you one bit.

Also HKAir, I don't find your attempt at sarcastic humour funny at all. We are trying to be professional and serious in spite of the working environment.

So may I kindly suggest you all shut it until we know more about this "runway incurison"?

[404 Titan]

Aussiestinks

What part of post #65 do you fail to comprehend? Let me post it again for you:
I don’t and have never worked for HKA so therefore I have no axe to grind with them.
If you still don’t believe me go back and read some of my past posts to 2001 when I first signed up for Pprune. My threads will give you a clue who I work for and who I have continuously worked for, for the past 10 years.

It’s pretty typical of some people that can’t debate a topic sensibly. They attack the posters rather than debate the topic.

As for the details of this event? It may surprise you but I know more about it than what I have posted here. How about you?

[Aussiestinks]

Ok, I was mistaken there. But people can say whatever they want. You may not have worked for HKA, but maybe you have undisclosed interest which lead you to have bias against HKA? And are you suggesting pprune posters don't attack one another? Please, like that whole moronic Australians vs. Southeast Asians debate. :ugh:

Anyway, that's beside the point. Now you say you know more about this "incursion". Well then, let's hear it. Let's see if what you know conforms with what will come out later. After all, that's the only way to prove whether you really do know what transpired and aren't basing it solely on rumours and speculation.

[jonathon68]

My bullsh*t filters have got seriously clogged up reading most of the posts on this thread!

The important facts are that the 737 took the wrong turn, but stopped before he crossed the red lights and entered the active runway. An initial error was made, but the aircraft was brought to a stop to clarify the clearance before the next potential (catastrophic) error was made.

Meanwhile the Tower controller spotted the error, told the 737 to hold position and without waiting for a response canceled the take-off clearance for the CX 777. This RTO was expeditiously carried out at low speed. This sort of thing happens from time to time. Twice so far to me, once due to HKATC and once due to KA over the past 15 years.

Basically a mistake was made, but all the subsequent holes in the swiss-cheese failed to line up because everyone was on the ball, and did their job.

The obvious issue worth review is for the 737 operator regarding how they read-back, cross-check and re-state their taxi clearances. Probably the place everyone is most complacent with taxiing is their home base, which is why puritan SOP's are important.

On the very first sector of my command course, a very senior-well respected BTC (yes:=) was the PF ex-HKG. We taxied from the north side down "W" onto "J" for 25L. However, he tried to turn right on "J" as if departing on 07R!!!! As a trainee on a hair-trigger, I was on top of this and we were still able to complete a shoddy turn in the right direction. I initially thought that, "oh-blast, this command course, is going to be a real pain!". However, it was a genuine error. The BTC had departed off 07R for the past 4 days in a row, and had relaxed his guard. I thank him for a great lesson!

In a training situation this is doubly likely to happen, because you are often thinking about how to debrief things which occurred during the pre-departure phase, or maybe thinking about how to discuss the next issue. Being very current is closely associated with a risk of becoming complacent. Trainers beware!

Sooner or later, we will all make a significant professional mistake. This is guaranteed. If we were bankers etc, then our bonus would be at stake. If we were Medical doctors then a patients life would be at stake! However, as Airline pilots we are usually assumed to be the culprits in the smokey front row seats at the scene of the accident, when anyone involved in our operation makes a mistake. Vigilance and robust SOP's may be a pain to adopt, but they are essential for this HKG 737 operator to develop into a professional operation.

I laughed when I read the Malaysian comments regarding CX difficulties with understanding Malaysian ATC English. Has this correspondent flown outside of Asia recently? Been to JFK, LAX, SFO, LHR, CDG, FRA or SYD recently? Listened to every other legacy Carrier from across the world struggle with south-east Asian colloquialism.

It is nice to hear that CX flights need a couple of read-backs to ensure that their clearance is correct, that is what we are supposed to do when faced with non ICAO phraseology etc. Would Malaysian ATC please always state QNH when clearing aircraft for descent to altitudes (as the rest of the world do). Please also state "descend altitude five thousand" rather than "descend five thousand", which is again non-ICAO.

NOTAMS in this region are internationally a joke. Some years ago I was due to depart, and after protracted delays (by this time, on the taxi-way with engines running) it became evident that the airport was closed for 30+? minutes because an Airbus380 was doing a fly-past. Nothing was NOTAMed.

Some years ago I operated a KUL-PEN sector. The weather was horrible. During the transit in KUL, we listened to the TWR frequency and heard a SEA local carrier cleared for take off. He responded, that he would need an immediate turn after take-off, stating a heading (approximately 90 degrees off runway heading) due to "CB". Tower responded, "cleared for take-off, make your request with departure freq xxxx". The local carrier then proceeded to take off, contacted departure, and merely requested the heading. After being granted the heading he reported "wind-shear loss of 30 knots".

[PrettyCroesus]

404 Titan

It’s pretty typical of some people that can’t debate a topic sensibly. They attack the posters rather than debate the topic. :ok:

There are always people who fail to learn their lessons. Denial, Denial, Denial......... Anyhow, they will never learn:eek:

You are what you paid for and it is so true. See the quality of HX pilots. They are just so typical:D

[Aussiestinks]

Hey I am just getting this off my chest after reading all your posts saying how crap we are. You all make it sound as if we are China Airlines or Garuda. Last time I check, we haven't killed anyone.

Btw, 404 Titan, I'm still waiting to hear your version of the event. What are you going to suggest, that the 737 was planning to go on runway despite seeing the red lights?!

And Tenerife is valid point to raise, it shows even those high and mighty can get complacent with horrific results. So let that be a warning lesson to you all sneering at us.

[EXXMAN]

A Cessna 172 crashed into a cemetery yesterday in the township of Goosnargh (Lancashire County) Ireland, so far 278 bodies have been recovered as digging continues into the night..............



XOP's..... The Only Way To Operate.....

[Sidewinder123]

What the $%!@#^& tsimbeit? We are talking about the runway incursion here. Are you on drugs or something? Wake up from your la la land.

Also, aussiestinks, I know people who worked at Hong Kong Airlines, from what they told me on how they were treated, HKAir may not be so far from the truth.

[hongkongfooey]

I know you did'nt mention my name a/stinks but I resigned and now get paid twice as much and have 10 times better chance of survival. Also, of all the guys that got sacked not one that I know of is not in a much netter job, so they are actually grateful to those fwits at HKA.

Pauline Kee lost her job ? Good, Karma in action.

Earth to Jismbelter, is that the best you can do to slag off Aussies, pull one accident out of the archives ? Still a long way to go to catch up with the deaths incurred by carriers around here :=
Keep smoking that pole though buddy, I am sure your command is only a few weeks away :}

Wether or not the HKA a/c infringed the runway is a moot point, it frigging well taxied the wrong way down a hi-speed taxiway and who is to say the idiot only stopped after he heard the tower, or not :confused:
One of your brain surgeons tried to take of on a taxiway for :mad: sake ( I still wonder how this happened every time I taxi out at night ) and you want respect, you have to be joking. This is the same airline that was departing with loose silver ingots in the rear cargo hold...bunch of unprofessional clowns.

[mass debator]

I agree with Fooey

Anyone who hangs around HKA, and didn't have the balls to quit when they could, or stand up to the singa clowns don't deserve any respect.

At the end of the day, you must have some kind of complex or mental brain disorder if you don't get the continuous theme here, that the singa clowns came....they ruined a potentially good airline.....they cheat, they lie, they DON'T KNOW HOW TO FLY .

You can pull your racist card.....the "You're no better than anyone else" card and come up with all the pathetic excuses under the sun.....it still doesn't change the fact anything and anyone who associates themselves with the singasnakes need to be brought to justice and given a one way ticket back to singawore and kept away from aviation for ever.

[throw a dyce]

Tsimbeit,
You don't get it.
''We all make mistakes''.:eek: Tenerife and Milan were the ultimate in mistakes,and many lessons implemented.But does this airline learn from their mistakes.Doesn't look like.:suspect:

They are talking about an airline that tried to take off on a taxiway,and go the wrong down a high speed exit,at their home airport.
If they did that in the UK they would be blacklisted,CAA audited on safety etc.Shut down even.
Whatever the background,there are the travelling public who deserve the highest safety standards.This airline falls well short,and should be taken to task,before they really do manage to kill a lot of people.The holes are lining up:ugh:

[mass debator]

Well said Dyce

Why Tsembeit continuously posts in a forum he has nothing to do with, no experience with, and obviously doesn't understand is beyond me.

I just hope for aviations sake this goose isn't allowed anywhere the controls of an aircraft. 12-13 hours across the pacific listening to that prat preach would drive anyone to slit their wrists.

Heard ATC getting p!ssed off with "Bohenia" the other night for not being able to follow simple ATC instructions airbourne. Had to be recleared an altitude while other aircraft got vectored round.

Suggestion for ATC - give all Bohenia aircaft with a radio call in a singaswine accent, a 20nm safety envelope. Let them back to HKG once all other real airlines have landed and are at a safe distance. However, if Bohenia doesn't have a singaswine accent......carry on as normal.

[MD330]

they cheat, they lie, they DON'T KNOW HOW TO FLY .



That is why they are in management so that they don't have to fly..!! ;)
One of the quality or qualification required and that's their 'insurance'.
The saying goes.."Do what I tell you to do, don't do what I do".! :ok:

Safe and Happy flying guys!

[404 Titan]

Aussiestinks

Don’t get your panties in a knot. Some of us actually have to go to work sometimes.

I will let you in on a little secret though. There are three parties to this event. HKA is only one of them. Until the investigation is complete Pprune isn’t the place to discuss in detail what I have been told.

I will leave you with this final thought. What if the weather was like Christmas day with low RVR’s due fog. All jet arrivals are being fed onto 07R due night time maintenance on 07L. Most pax aircraft after completing an auto land in LWMO conditions have been exiting 07R via J6 and J7. Just as a B747-400 lands on 07R with the intent to exit via J7 a HKA B737-800 takes a wrong turn and ends up unknown to both ATC and the landing B747-400 crew, taxiing the wrong way up J7. They realise their mistake when the red stop bars come into view in the thick fog. Luckily they overt a serious runway incursion by managing to pull up before them just as the B747 crew exit on J7 with a mid point RVR of 150m. The outcome unfortunately is self-explanatory. :ugh:

[gengis]

You all forgot:

Harmony is the basis for collective prosperity;
Perseverance is the rule to sturdy progress;
Careful recipe is the best medicine to health;
Forgiveness is most needed in dispute;
Kindliness to youth endows the superior with virtue;
Diligence leads research to accession of knowledge;
Sincerity is the fundamental in daily life;
Modesty is the best policy in human relationship;
Preparation avoids needles drudgery;
Prudence remains essential in conducting business.


Tsk tsk tsk.. :D:ugh::E

[FOCX]

Gengis, did you have to remind us of that!:eek:

[Aussiestinks]

Cut the crap, mass debator, are you telling me the fact you burned your bridges at HKA had nothing to do with your venting? Would you be praying for our end if you were never employed by us? Be honest. I'm all for pointing out serious dangers, but something tells me it's not that simple for you.

Now I'm not denying some of our pilots, are shall we say, not confidence inducing. And you are correct to point out the flaws which our management has so far turned a blind eye to. But bearing grudges isn't a very healthy emotion. Life isn't a bed of roses. If you despise our management so much, you can sue their asses, (heck, I would'nt mind if you did).

404 Titan-If what you are implying is true, damn.....

[Bob Hawke]

Gengis,

That is ludicrous! Surely the pilots didn't have to know that drivel! No wonder he turned up the wrong taxiway. That is extremely infantile and professionally demeaning to have to even attempt to read that, let alone try understand it. I did lay on my floor and roll around with tears in my eyes when I read it.....it's gotta be joke...come on tell me it is....please!

Did the author of this come out of some second rate Kung Fu movie in the 70's? I can imagine Master One Eat Tun applying severe punishments (sic) for not comprehending words spoken from lips that never part. Aussiestink, if you are prepared to defend drivel like this, then you and your company deserve the lamb basting you are getting - sorry to say.

As for the matter of the incident, there has been a pathetic attempt by numerous to get away from the issue at point. It would be interesting to see what the full investigation brings out. Oh, now there's a question. Who is doing the investigation? The management of HKA?

You poor bastards!

[gengis]

Ah, but Bob, you need to remember that "Harmony is the basis for collective prosperity", "Modesty is the best policy in human relationship" and "Prudence remains essential in conducting business."

:}:{

[throw a dyce]

404 titan,
The single runway ops 07R used to be from fading memory vacating aircraft use J6 and J7 were to continue on J.Outbounds from the north apron would use V and H.Inbounds to North/West aprons were to use W.Your nasty point was J7 into W,versus H to the holding points.In low vis GMS would monitor it closely on SMR,and if the vis was that bad then slow it down.I did my check out in RVR conditions,single runway on 25L.No one had seen it for real,so I had an audience.Passed as well.:\
I see what you're saying but in practice it shouldn't happen.Then again J7 shouldn't be used as a runway entrance point,even if it was a very dark night.:hmm:

[HKAforever]

I too work for HKA. Not management, but someone "in the know". I have to say we have nothing to do with that load of b.s., bob hawke and gengis. It stems from, how do I put it, different management philisophy.

I hate to say this, but you guys are really a group of pathetic thin-skinned lot. You banned aussiestinks because he disagrees with you? Well, boohoohoo. His username isn't the best, to put it kindy, but so what if he hurt your "feelings". Give me a break. If you guys got guts, then you should reinstate him. Otherwise, you are just a bunch of inbreeds.

As for this runway incursion, I think I know who the pilots are. I may reveal it to you when the time is right. Do you want to know? I have to be careful since HKA may be monitoring this forum, but if the chances present itself, I just might slip my tongue.

[PrettyCroesus]

HKAForever,

This is just my pure speculation. Are you Aussietinks? If that is the case, there is no point to reinstate Aussietinks. You could start using HKAForever to express your opinions and displayed your patriotism towards HX:ok:. I assume the majority of us are receptive to all kinds of feedback.

[PrettyCroesus]

Suggestion for ATC - give all Bohenia aircaft with a radio call, a 20nm safety envelope. Let them back to HKG once all other real airlines have landed and are at a safe distance.:D

Brilliant :ok: CAD should adopt the above procedure ASAP!

[HKAforever]

I am not aussiestinks, don't know who he is. Just been reading your comments here, so chip in with my view. I am someone else working at HX. Have to be real careful, because this is more then a hunch, I have strong info on who the "wrong turn" pilots are. I will let you know, the heat is getting turned on at HX. Maybe real heads will roll this time, but don't quote me on this. Have to watch out for the spyware.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Aussie is on a 24 hour timeout to come up with a different username.

No other reason.

Rob

[gengis]

HKAforever, hahahahahahhahahaha. I really needed a good laugh

:E:E:ok:

[AGNES]

Lets put the record straight. The callsign of Hong Kong Airlines is BAUHINIA not BOHENIA.:rolleyes:

[PrettyCroesus]

non sequitur:8:oh:

[mass debator]

Well I feel so much better that you clarified that for us Agnes. Keep up the good work.

Judging by your name "aussiestinks" and your posts you have a severe case of inferiority complex. In no way have any of my posts been directed at you personally until now.

If you are the type to allow yourself to be treated in the manner the snakes treat their employees, then I have no respect for you. And you are the part of the very reason why there are so many low paid jobs now.

Seems to me you as well just don't "get it" as to why these posts are here, so perhaps rather than get your panties in a twist, work on your confidence, stand up for your hard work to become a pilot, and help get rid of these singa snakes so HKA and HKE can progress and reach the potential it has.

[Aussiestinks]

The one and only aussiestinks is back from the land of the banned! I missed you all and all the insults you hurl at me ;)! Apologies to all who were offended by my anti-aussie comments. And to moderator, yes I will change my username, just want to say a few words before I get the new name.

Mass debator, oi, I get it just fine, buddy. I'm defending the employees, not Lim and his lot. And as for "respect"? Well I'm not looking for your respect, I'm just trying express my views. Maybe I was a bit blunt, but hey, that's just who I am. Now don't be offended, all I'm saying is that in addition to HKA's nasty management, you are also steamed because you were laid off/resigned. That's only natural. I took psychology courses once and I would be steamed too if I got fired unreasonably by incompetent management who scews the airline. You know, like they hurt you, and you want to hurt them back.

But that's water under the bridge, the more relevant issue is quality and standard of certain pilots at HKA and how management ignores or abuse us. Why do I still stay? Because I have a little influence and I am trying to change the airline from "within". Maybe you think I am a misguided fool. Maybe I am, but I won't quit unless I give it a shot. If I play my cards right, I might just get a direct line to Li Xiaoming himself.

HKAforever: Nice to know a fellow guy. And yes, based on 404 Titan's implication and my own investigation and I have pretty good solid evidence who the "wrong turn" pilots are. Darn, to all you ppruners, this whole "wrong turn/runway incursion" business may just be the tip of the iceberg.

One final parting shot. As to why i have this soon to be ex-username. Well, sorry to say, some of you guys really stink, man. The whole cockpit reeks after you sat in them. Take a shower, man! And you will be horrified to know, you aussies share this same problem with the Indonesians. You guys are always at each other throat on pprune. But you must shock to know you both stink and is urgent need of a bath!. There off my chest. Until my new username, later.

[wongsuzie]

''Last time I check, we haven't killed anyone''

hmmm..mate have you heard of commentator's curse ?