No more Netjet pilots on Air France flights ??

[crjo]

Hello,

I just heard a Rumor: Netjet's management has decided that Air France was off-limits for their crews...
When dead-heading, they are no longer allowed to fly on Air France, because of AF's safety record.

Tell me it's not true !

It would make me very sad... I always enjoyed upgrading them and exchanging views during a flight...

If anyone at Netjet could either confirm or infirm this rumor, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

[redsnail]

First I have heard of it?

[ab33t]

Just asked soemone in the know and they dont know anything about this?

[buzzc152]

I can't believe for one moment there is any truth in this........for a start it woud be very diificult to get crews to some regional French airports without AF.

[hollingworthp]

:eek:

Where does this kind of stuff originate???

[south coast]

Is zis a joke?

[JimJoness]

Just bollocks !

[spaniel]

Sounds like a load of horse-cr*p to me!!

Suspect its a case of chinese whispers. Could it have come from the fact Air Farce want crew members travelling as pax to "de-robe" and take off rank-tabs etc so as not to confuse the other pax!!????!!!:ugh:

[hollingworthp]

Could it have come from the fact Air Farce want crew members travelling as pax to "de-robe" and take off rank-tabs etc so as not to confuse the other pax!!????!!!

Not come across this myself (although probably not airlined with AF for over a month).

[Coto]

I do not know if this is true. But if it is, it doesn't amazes me.

I only fly AF if i really have too, to many accidents with fatalities for me to feel safe...

Just curious if any of you feel the same?

[buzzc152]

I only fly AF if i really have too, to many accidents with fatalities for me to feel safe...

Just curious if any of you feel the same?

No. I'd have no worries sending wife and kid on a AF flight (no more than any other major European carrier anyway).

[redsnail]

Yep, I have encountered the "you cannot travel in uniform" twice whilst positioning with Air France from London LHR. I have to patiently tell them that I am not staff, I am not traveling on a staff ticket and I (well, NJE is) am paying pretty much full fare to travel to work...

[7xXx]

soon njet guys will be either travelling by train ( corail no tgv ) or by camels...part of the big picture for reducing the cost !!! just kidding nothing personal here...:D:D:D

[natops]

yeah right!

[No RYR for me]

Oh my god then I must have broken the rules the last two days! :}
Plus they have just been added to the preferred airlines according to the latest travelnews :p

[crjo]

Thanks for all the replies people...

I will seriously flagellate my contact...

I hope to see you netjets pilots onboard soon, and I won't give you any hassle on the uniform thing, which I myself find quite ridiculous...

Cheers

[south coast]

I know that Netjets is not really discussed much on Prune anymore- I wonder why that is, but I think there are far more serious topics being discussed in the 'office'.

Viva Netjets!

[His dudeness]

"Could it have come from the fact Air Farce want crew members travelling as pax to "de-robe" and take off rank-tabs etc so as not to confuse the other pax!"

Really? Good hint, aka avoid AF if poss for me. What is the next thing the airlines want to rule? I´m so glad I don´t hav to put up with their crap every day.

[H.Finn]

Why would anyone like to travel in uniform anyway? The logic in Air France's thinking is that in case of an emergency (evacuation etc) all uniformed people are part of the crew of the aircraft, and at least should know what to do and where to exit etc. Fine with me.

PS. You can presumably travel wearing blue trousers and white shirt + tie, just keep your epaulettes and uniform jacket in your hand baggage.

[Privatejetbroker]

Silly, no-one is immune to incidents

whether its AF, BA, NJE, 247 Jet

(actually 247 jet is a bad example)

[Damianik]

I know Air One was on their black list, so is Blu Panorama. the rest is all commercial decisions, but AF is pretty high up the list, much higher than BA and AZ and IB.
FR isnt even there ....
D

[crjo]

Fancy encountering you here !!

Thanks for seeing the big picture on AF's policy... It's exactly the reasoning behind this company policy...

But a few colleagues take it a little too far...

Hope you're still enjoying "Jet Fueling" !

Regards,

[EatMyShorts!]

Hey, I always enjoy flying with AF, although I did not get any upgrades recently. Well, it does not ruin the day, but I remember when it happened on almost every flight. Do you have new rules, too? Or shall we say hello to the captain as well, when boarding? I know that there are a few individuals who actually go and directly ask for an upgrade, which I think is not appropriate. If the crew offers it, I am very happy. If not, I will survive. What also used to be possible is, to jump onto an earlier flight. But here, the staff at the gates has become more strict, too. If you have the wrong person as supervisor, they will stick to the ticketing-rules and you see an almost empty Airbus depart Paris, while waiting for the packed flight one hour later. Any hints on how to avoid this? ;)

[Mike Oxbig]

I too have been positioning with AF over the last couple of weeks so think the rumour is totally false.
As for the no uniform thing, I always take my rank tabs off - I have had enough of being asked if I am a back seat driver, could get someone a coke, change seat, vegetarian meal etc. It is a good point about an emergency but it also means you can have a G and T on the way home.................:ok:

As for upgrades - I have seen too many people move from the full 'refugee' section of the cabin to the empty economy section only to be sent back by the cabin crew to try asking. I suppose it is only fair as they haven't paid for that class though................

[crjo]

@ EatMyShorts:

I agree that directly asking for an upgrade is a no-no. i would never do it.

The best thing to do is to be the last one to board... Many times, our crews are reticent about upgrading because many business travellers have sent negative feedbacks on this... Moving someone from the back to the front cabin is not very subtle, and it is much easier to accomodate colleagues when we have a clear picture of the available seats...

Cheers

[EatMyShorts!]

Hi crjo, thanks a lot for the reply, that makes sense! My problem is that I always try to avoid checking in my luggage. I do have a small bag and a cabin-size trolley that fits in the overhead bins. If I board last and don't make it to "the front", I have serious problems accomodating my luggage at my seat in the back, because normally the flights are packed. Anyways, next time I will give it a chance!

[Damianik]

that is exactly my problems as well...
boarding first possible in a unfriendly airline
and boarding last on a friendly one where i am almost sure i get upgraded...
otherwise, could be a nightmare finding a spot for the bag...

but it doesnt happen that much right now, i am almost continuosly on home Stby...

D

[Checkboard]

Re the uniform thing: Just tell them that your company has a policy that you are not allowed to deface the uniform by removing bars / ties etc, so it's naked or nothin'. :cool:

[crjo]

Re the uniform thing: Just tell them that your company has a policy that you are not allowed to deface the uniform by removing bars / ties etc, so it's naked or nothin'.

Two things:

1/ In some cases, "naked" wouldn't be too bad...

2/ In most cases, if you're travelling on a company with different policies as your own, I think you should abide by theirs...

Cheers

[south coast]

Why do people feel the need to travel with their bars on anyhow? I take mine off, and my tie for that matter, the moment I am no longer required for a FDP.

Just as we would expect our pax to respect our rules and regulations, so we should AF's, I have no issue with it at all.

[EatMyShorts!]

Strictly speaking we are required to wear our uniform either complete or not at all. This is what the book says. Then there's a thing called "the real world" and whenever an airline crew asks me to hide my rank/uniform/etc. I will comply, of course. Other than that, travelling in uniform makes things muuuuuuuch easier at security checks and the way you get treated at check-in, boarding and so on. It saves yuo all the discussions about the second piece of hand-luggage, except on ReierAir and SleazyJet.

[His dudeness]

Why do people feel the need to travel with their bars on anyhow? I take mine off, and my tie for that matter, the moment I am no longer required for a FDP.

Just as we would expect our pax to respect our rules and regulations, so we should AF's, I have no issue with it at all.

So you arrive at A (in your uniform) and to make the plane to B you got to hurry from GA apron to the terminal. One can choose to change dresses in a terminal toilet for example, but in french airport I personally won´t (have not come accross one properly cleaned one in Frances public terminals - as dirty as most of the others btw)

I personally dislike travelling in uniform but several times I had to hurry hard to get my flight, then I do. If its their policy - allright then no uniform in AF.

These days I don´t position much anyhow...

[south coast]

Dude...

I think you misunderstood what I meant., I am not advocating not travelling in uniform on day 1, just slightly dressed down, no bars.

Once one takes their jacket off and places it in the overhead locker, there is not an awful lot to identify you as crew anymore.

eg. Day 1, put your bars on on arrival at FBO, not when leaving the house, so as to not upset AF or any other airlines who are not happy with it.

Day 6, after your last flight, take bars off, so as to not upset AF.

I cant believe we are discussing this...pensions, top management changes, 5 year business plans, but no, travelling in uniform!!!

Over and out on this one for me!

[EatMyShorts!]

Poor south coast :D I will airline to Africa tomorrow. There's one thing for sure: I will be wearing my uniform!! ;)

[south coast]

Thanks for your sympathy, although have no idea why you are offering it to me....as I said, to me, this is not an issue, I dont mind removing what would identify me as crew while airlining with AF.

I spent 7 years flying in Africa, so I know exactly how it works, or doesn't, to be more accurate!

[gone till november]

south coast

Must agree with eat my shorts....except the poor south coast bit.

Everywhere around europe except im ashamed to say the UK it gets you a little more respect and when there is a huge line for immigration check in or whatever i use the uniform to either use the crew line or business class line et al.

At GVA/ZRH i've been told to go to the front of a very long line of pax who you know are gonna take forever to get their keys jackets computers kids etc through the x-ray. So now i just go to the front which is useful on day 6 and you've got 10 mins to catch your flight home and i've never been stopped doing it.

Once got hoofed out of a long line in AMS by the KLM crew and told "fur sure you are crew why are you lining up....go to the front you silly boy".

In some places on arrival i've approached immigration passport in hand and been waved through without it being looked at....i suppose the crew card and uniform was enough.

Each to their own on following or not following the SOP's but personally i've found it dont 'arf make life a lot easier being in uniform and i can wait till i get home for a drink

So thank you to the French Dutch German Swiss Portuguese Scandinavian Italian Spanish Irish etc etc authorities that respect the uniform and the job......as for the UK lot you are the weakest link:mad:.....except at T5 where you can use the crew line on arrival.

ps Going through Oslo recently i used the normal line to get to the departure lounge and the man said i should use the crew line. I told him i was travelling as a pax and he said I dont care use the crew line next time its much easier and you are crew......fantastic

[smallfry]

Gone till november... spot on. and thanks to the people who are nice to us.

KLM.. special mention. Awesome crew (flight and cabin crew) on the AMS Kuwait flight on the 30th. You all deserve a big thanks for such hospitality.
:ok:

[south coast]

I never said, 'Don't travel in uniform...'

All I said was, (Quote): ' I am not advocating not travelling in uniform on day 1, just slightly dressed down, no bars.'

I too have been lucky enough to experience what you have descibed, the topic was about being asked to remove items of your uniform which could mis-identify you as AF crew.

So, for the third time, all I was saying is, what's the big deal about taking your BARS off (I SAY AGAIN, BARS ONLY, NOT WHOLE UNIFORM!!!) while onboard AF and sitting there in your BLUE UNIFORM TROUSERS, WHITE UNIFORM SHIRT, BLUE UNIFORM TIE, BLACK UNIFORM SHOES, and UNIFORM JACKET WITH GOLD STRIPES off and out of sight in the over head locker.

And then once off the AF flight, if you feel the need to put your bars back on, do so, but I have always found that once you put your uniform jacket back on, the jacket normally covers your bars, and is enough to get you too the front of queues.

[gone till november]

[QUOTE]items of your uniform which could mis-identify you as AF crew/QUOTE]

Hope not their uniform is worse than ours:ok:

You're right i miss read the cut and thrust of your argument....sorry

[south coast]

No problem, I appreciate your last post, to confirm I am not going mad!

[mercuray]

Call me old fashioned.How can any body sit in the cabin in full uniform?.Just get rid of the braid and eppelettes......When I was a younger man with BA,it was strictly forbidden.Trousers and shirt are ok.I once heard a pax say:"What's happened,mate.....Lost your boat?!" Sums it up.Posser territory...

[boredcounter]

Is it not possible to just remove the gold or silver bars?

In the last passenger airline I worked for, non-type rated Crew we not to wear full uniform on company flights. I must admit it was easier for pilots, however, even Cabin Crew had to wear a 'normal jumper' to break the uniform in passenger eyes. Cabin Crew operating as Company Represenative on chartered aircraft did so in 'office attire'. As said before on this thread, it is all about passenger perception in the event of any emergency.

Those who wish to travel in all the braid, may I tic suggest repacing the ep buttons with velcro. You don't want to be confused as part of the Crew if the flight diverts, goes tech or gets cancelled now do you ;-)

[Rusty Trombone]

The NJE uniform at best no offence taken is from the 1970 ex air india stock. we did manage to get rid of the harry potter tie a few years ago.
I think all points are valid for discussion.

I feel at present I would prefer just to blend in with all the problems at present its easy to remove the stripes and Ties and badges quite easy, hide it all under the blue jacket.
However on Day 6 when we all want to go home get fast tracked through security because travel are trying to save 60 euros and put you on the last flight home and used you to the very last minute.:ok:

[Flymee 2 Da Moon]

If I can add my penny-worth?

When I see airline staff in uniform on airlines other to their own, I can measure their standards by their dress and deportment and I feel that it is an advert (good or bad) for their company. I've seen some shabby looking guys and girls, for example, hands in pockets, talking to colleagues (overtly loud) in a way that you would not expect of such a highly regarded and trusted individuals and, in general, letting their employers down. These companies may have a standard of conduct when operating but outside of that it seems like anything goes. It's not actually about the fabric of the uniform (or even the style or colour) , but the standards of the personnel in the eye of the public, who when not operating, are going to cost the whole industry by way of size of salary, regard in the employment market and overall regard for an industry that used to be held in such high esteem.

A First Officer should act like an Officer.
A Captain should act like an Officer.

Have pride in your job an your uniform and if an accident occurs while you are a passenger then save some lives.

[FalconFlyr]

..I think most NJE guys are quite well presented - although thats nothing to do with the standard of the uniform! I agree that anyone travelling in uniform, rank slides or not, should be aware that they are in the public eye and act accordingly.

A First Officer should act like an Officer.
A Captain should act like an Officer.

I would say though, that whilst I do try to act like an Officer, I find that in economy I find it a bit cramped for the marching and saluting ladies with my sword :}....

[NuName]

The only valid reason for taveling in uniform is that some airlines require THEIR staff traveling as "added crew member" on THEIR aircraft require it. The only other reasons would be a missguided belief that one might gain some advantage somehow, or, a sad shot at bolstering one's image. The first usualy incurs the opposite and the second is a sad indicment of the individual's self esteem. If you are not a required crewmember then you are a passenger, dress and act as such. Notwithstanding the occasional hurried movements where we have to run to make a flight, all efforts should be made to normalise one's appearance, minimum, epaulets, wings etc. can easily be removed, if its cold enough for a jacket we would normaly have another in the bag, no?.

[south coast]

As I have said earlier, I do remove all gold while airlining.

However, I finished a tour earlier this week in Geneva and had an airline home from there with quite a tight connection.

I checked in fine, then went to the security checks, mother-f*cker, the queues were huge!!!

Luckily a member of staff saw me lurking around the staff area and beckoned me through. I was most grateful for this and this was done purely on the basis that I was in uniform, even though travelling as a passenger.

I have no problem with professional favours/courtesy shown to colleagues within the industry we work in and if I could, I would try to help an airline crew member out, unfortunately we dont really have the opportunity to do so very easily.

Had I been travelling home on day 6 directly from the hotel, I would not have been in uniform and had to queue with the rest of the hurd.

Little things really help sometimes.

[NuName]

My comments were really meant to address the situation on board the aircraft. Certainly, beforehand, there can be an advantage to be seen to be "in the job" but please, not on board, that is very tacky.

[CL300]

I travel in uniform from day one 00.01 to day 6 23:59....
There is screening facilitation process at many airport for crews on duty, and this what I am : ON DUTY when I am airlining; and if I am on duty then I have to be in uniform, period.
The thread is about AF and NJE staff travelling; AF is along with other providers one of our preferred airlines, AF staff is very helpful, nice and everything you can ask. There is still (like in all majors) a sense of respect for colleagues, compared to some other companies where you are loaded with a fork.
So yes, there is advantages to travel in uniform, and i am using using EVERY ONE of them. Sorry for people who can't, but hey this is life nobody is equal .
Now if some individuals want to start again a battle against NJE for such an insignificant detail, good for them.

[NuName]

I stand corrected, I certainly did not realise that there were companies out there that strictly regulate their employees to travel to and from work in full uniform even when a passenger on another carrier. How very interesting. I should thank heaven for small mercies that I do not have to comply with such draconian orders. Its true, sometimes we don't realise how well off we are.

[CL300]

indeed...:suspect:

[Mike Oxbig]

NetJets require their crews to travel in uniform, or to have it with you as hand luggage, when airlining. This is to save the embarrassment of operating the NetJets aircraft in jeans and a T shirt when the said airline have lost your checked luggage. With changing hotels almost every night on tour, the chances of your luggage ever catching up with you are slim.
I agree on day 6 one could get changed into 'civvies', but I have also had my luggage lost on returning home and not had it returned before I started my next tour. There is no problem with taking off the bars and tie (and actually I do each time)- as I said earlier it stops me being asked questions on board as if I were a member of that airline.

[redsnail]

That is a brilliant username.

Is it true? :E

[Mike Oxbig]

Of course it is true - but you should see my cousin, Mike Oxlong!

[bayete]

I have often had lengthy conversations with fellow passengers about the company, businessmen thinking of getting a share, so in that sense it could be a benefit for the company if someone joins. However I have no idea if anything ever came of these conversations and the company saw fit not to provide me with business cards (only for Capts) and I felt a bit un-professional giving my details on the back of an airline napkin.

[keithskye]

In 27 years of commuting all over the world as part of my flying career, I have never, ever expereienced even one time where being in my uniform caused me a problem or had a negative impact on the outcome of a flight where I was in the back as one of the passengers. Some of you here obviously think poorly of those pilots who are traveling in uniform, even if they do not have to, in your eyes. I find that very interesting, and somewhat disappointing.

What do you think then of the well-heeled "businessman" traveling in his suit? Is he "overdressed" because he is professionally attired? Do you automatically assume he is going straight to a meeting as soon as he is off the plane? Some of course are doing just that, but many more are not, and simply dress that way. A pilot's uniform, especially when the person wearing it cares enough to make the effort to have it fitted properly and keep it as clean and neat as possible, is professional attire and no different than any businessman's suit. When worn with pride and obvious care, and coupled with a sensible and appropriate attitude and conduct, it makes the wearer stand out as a Professional, and a positive image for our industry. It also says a lot about you as a person and gives me an indication of what kind of work ethic you have when I see you wearing it.

Like others have pointed out here, there are perks that often come along or are given to you, freely and out of respect, when you are traveling in uniform. And there are things that you can do when you are commuting, in or out of uniform, to promote that kind of help. I have always gone out of my way to try to do some small little thing, like buy a small box of chocolates to share with the cabin crew on the flights I have taken, even back in the day when I made so little money as a new F/O that I could not afford to own a car or even have furniture in my apartment. Those kind of gestures are remembered, and paid back to you many times over.

When I am not pressed for time, I DO prefer to travel in my jeans, a polo shirt and my cowboy boots, because that is most comfortable for me, but I am never ashamed or concerned about traveling in uniform, and I'm quite happy to do so. When I see a crewmember traveling in the back, in uniform and looking sharp, I cannot help but unconsciously categorize he or she as a cut above the norm and very much a professional kind of person.

I won't say here what I think of those pilots or flight attendants that I see who do not seem to care how they look, nor about the state of their uniforms, nor seem to care about their conduct in public, but suffice to say that such individuals are not likely to get any sympathy from me when they are looking for a job and I am hiring.... and I've hired quite a few pilots, flight attendants and other personnel over the years. As one who has owned several businesses and who is always keeping a few candidates in mind at all times in the event I need someone quickly, I can tell you that your conduct, AND your attire, ARE noticed, and as they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression.

Many of us "old folks" climbed a long, painful and expensive ladder and truly earned the jobs and responsibilities we have now, and I am one of those who is proud to wear my uniform, and proud of those I see who wear theirs well, too. Guess I'm just an old-fashioned kind of guy...

[On standby]

Recently, I finished work in Helsinki and went straight to airline home. I had a full fare ticket. On check in I was told that the flight was overbooked and as I was airline staff I would be placed on the standby list. I pointed out I had a confirmed ticket but was told this was Finnair policy! I managed to get on the flight but only after they upgraded someone else and then gave me a seat at the back of the plane.

I always travel in uniform, so I don't lose it but I always take my bars off.

[astronaute]

I would love to know what the reaction of these airlines, with a militaryman travelling in full uniform !:hmm: