Ryanair SSTR

[endofspan]

Does any people know if Ryanair are still accepting applications for self sponsored type rating FO's?

I have looked but cant find a definitive answer.

Please, no debate on paying for type rating!

[pilotho]

I think you will just have to follow the link on the FR website and ask the flying school that does the training.

Last time I heard, people were being interviewed during December but I don't know if that have stopped since then. Have you sent your CV to the training provider yet?

[BALLSOUT]

They currently recruit direct entry type rated captains, and cadets for sstr, both via the web site. I think all of the training is now in house at east mdlands training (Ryanair)

[philc1983]

A few pals of mine are at FR and said they have stopped taking people on for the time being. However, try this website and speak to a C.Karlsson (I think that's right). May be able to get some more answers there.

www.bfsaa.se (http://www.bfsaa.se)

[Skyhigh86]

They've stopped for the meanwhile.

I would imagine they will start again in the middle of the year. I think all the FO's they need for this year are either doing type ratings or have been given a date.

[Kirks gusset]

Not at the moment, maybe later in the year, lots of guys in the system at the moment.

[captplaystation]

Just wanted to express my surprise, and pleasure, that this thread was not hijacked by the usual suspects. Simple question, simple answer, well done guys, how refreshing :ok: :D

[EI-CON]

Endofspan,

I know two people who have done FR interviews lately, one yesterday and one today! So id get that CV in there:ok:

[franticleopard]

EI-CON, do you know when your friends applied? I've got a friend who is tearing his hair out because he applied late Nov/early Dec and hasn't heard anything yet.

[EI-CON]

They both finished there MCC about Oct/Nov and applied straight away so id tell him to hold out. Maybe no harm in sending in a few updated CV's to them either.

I finished my MCC in July, myself and my sim partner both did the same flight training course and had similar results etc. He got called in September and I didnt until December. Just something to bear in mind as we both applied the same day. Tell your friend not to give up as a call could be just around the corner.

[flamingmoe]

Given all the experienced jet captains looking for work, what sort of experience would be required to be competetive? I have about 2000 command 737NG.

[BALLSOUT]

The minimum for direct entry is 3000 hrs total and 500 P1 on an NG. The rest is down to your C V, who you know, the luck of the draw, etc etc,
Lots of new guys lately from Globespan, Jet 2, XL etc.
Good Luck

[DME11.2]

Hey guys,

How did you apply? Via CAE of BFSAA?

Cheers!

[sback]

Does anyone have any ideas about how to get on at Ryan (as a captain) in the case of not already being type rated? I am 8000+, mostly PIC in airline operations in the US and Europe, currently a CRJ captain in Europe, and have FAA and JAA ATPL. Any chance of a senior FO course or something that could put me to the left seat within 6-12 months?

[dire straits]

Sback,
I was in your position three years ago, joined FR with a hope of command within reasonable time. Still stuck as FO, I know about more people in the same situation. So be careful with what you wish for!

[sback]

Really? That blows. So I suppose it would be fair to say that Ryan works out if you are already qualified, but not for any career progression, huh?

[go around flaps15]

No. That's absolute b:mad:.

[EI-CON]

I dont know anything about what its like applying for command Im just a gear up, flaps up, shut up cadet!

DME11.2 to answer your question why not apply through both. :ok:

[Avenger]

SR, You won't as you do not meet the criteria. You need 500P1 on the NG, and have flown the NG recently. Given the numbers form Sky Europe. GS etc there's not much hope. Generally, once you are " fast Tracked" you need 2 LPCs and a winter season to be upgrade considered.
They were looking for CRJ guys in Greece a while ago, Cpts pay is poor, very poor!

[DME11.2]

Yeah I applied at both places a while ago, no new since then. Have called both SAA and CAE, but they refuse to give any information about the status of applications or developments. I was just wondering if there is an alternative way off applying, but apparently there isn't.

Thanks for the info

[irishpilot1990]

what is the current situation with the type ratings?
are most of them in east midlands?
is there any choice of location and do prices vary much?

[Afinehelmet]

Guys,

I hate to thread creep. But it may be wise to have a read of the easyjet/ctc slavery thread and consider the implications for yourselves further down the line.

Please, please do thoroughly research every aspect of the deal on offer from Ryanair. And bear in mind that three years ago the TR was £20000 with CAE or SAS.

How much is it now? And why such a heavy increase?

Ryaniar, easyjet etc have huge growth plans and firm aircraft orders. They NEED pilots to fill those seats, otherwise their plans are in tatters. If everyone refused to pay for the TR, those seats will still need to be filled.

It's worth thinking about.

[EI-CON]

I think the wishes of the person who posted this thread should be kept here. He/she asked a simple question, are Ryanair recruiting FO's at the moment? Simple answer: yes.

All this type rating talk etc is discuss elsewhere.

[portsharbourflyer]

Afinehelmet,

Was the price of the rating always 30,000 Euros; hence when the Euro was 1.5/1.6 to then pound then the rating was then 20,000 pounds sterling. Now the pound is weak (nearly 1:1 pound to the Euro) then this makes the rating now 30,000 pounds. You can't blame a training provider for changes in exchange rate.

[Bruce Wayne]

upwards of E40K


Thats what, upwards of 10k more than the cost! Do you do accounting for Gordon Brown ?

[Airbusfreak]

hey guys they are hiring i can say there was 8 captains assessed last week and 7 cadets.. i was there, be very careful captains.. the 2 captains i spoke to (who were from some very respectable airlines) in their sim check had take off birdstrike engine failure flight director failure auto pilot failure so what they got basically was single engine raw data approach with single engine go around.. neither of them were expecting it..

[go around flaps15]

The reason there is little or no cadets in line training at the moment is that they only started up courses again before Christmas.

[flamingmoe]

Which bases are they recruiting for? What does a "roaming" base entail??

[lpokijuhyt]

Actually they are not recruiting First Officers. They are recruiting CADETS and Direct Entry Captains. What makes the company more money: a 0 hour cadet who needs to go through an integrated ATPL or a pilot who may have tons of hours of experience and doesn't need to go through the whole deal. If you have experience and some hours, there is no need to apply, because you are NOT A CADET, therefore you are not attractive to the accountant's balance sheet. Simple!

[Callsign Kilo]

The Line Training of cadets is ongoing, but in relatively small numbers; to the point where it may not be noticed. Course intake has been smaller, however TR courses continue at EMA/EMT and CAE AMS. I am told the volume is nothing compared to previous years (2007/2008 especially). OAA Stockholm is to be wound up as an FR TRTO.

There is still a shortage in Captains. DEC guys seem to be taking a frontline due to ongoing expansion and the internal command failure rate. I personally know guys scheduled for OCCs in March and April. Several guys from FlyGlobespan have also been in line training at the Prestwick base. I seem to fly with my fair share of skippers who have came from Futura, Sky Europe and Sterling. All who have joined in the last 6 to 12 months. All good guys with vast levels of experience. I'm unsure of the criteria for DEC however 737 (EFIS) PIC time is necessary.

As for FOs who may be looking to join the company with a view to an accelerated command, unfortunately that ship seems to have sailed. I put it down to 4 things.
1). More revenue earned through taking on a non-rated cadet.
2). It hasn't had the desired result previously (due to failure rates)
3). There is a steady supply of 737 rated skippers in the global market now
4). Internal command courses are still ongoing

When I joined I came onboard with two 'command ready' FOs from a UK and European Lo-Co. They are both skippers now. That route has seemingly dried up. Also remember that Command in Ryanair isn't an entitlement. If your training/checking record doesn't meet the grade or you have been brought to the attention of the 'wrong person' during your travels, then in the RHS you'll stay. :uhoh:

[RAT 5]

I hear RYR are due for 54 a/c this year @ 5 crews per a/c = 270pilots. That's 270 captains required. Allowing for leavers, retirements and failures I'd guess about 330 command courses. Same next year. That means 600 F/O's will be needed for the new a/c and to replace the upgrades. You say they are closing OAA and the training is at a dribble. If this maths is correct it will require 50 pilots each month; not a dribble. If RYR are doing the upgrades and OCC's themselves, and they are closing OAA, then someone, CAE, is in for a bonanza, surely? Is it posisble these numbers can be produced? A full TQ to end of line training is 5 months, and OCC for an F/O to end line training could be as short as 1.5 months. Can RYR have the luxury of employing only cadets?

[Callsign Kilo]

Ryanair have had a luxury with their FOs for the past number of years - the luxury being it has too many of them! Crewing on that front presents no problems and has probably resulted in a 'slow down' of recruitment. I still expect that FR will always remain 'top heavy' with FOs because it remains a high source of revenue and by in large costs them little or nothing to have them on their books. The only issue may be that there is a gulf in experience being created across FOs. Plenty of those between 500 - 1000hrs, fewer betweeen 1000 and 2000hrs and even fewer between 2000 and 3000hrs plus. I was recently informed (not gospal) that the upgrade success rate lies around the 50% mark. If that's the case then there will be a number of FOs staying in the RHS until they can enter the upgrade process again. I believe the time from failure to re-entry has been extended as well.

The training department has decided that the majority of training will be internal. TRs are being conducted at East Mids and OCCs at Stansted (largely due to cost and standardisation). A few TRs, but nothing compared to previous years, are still conducted at CAE with Ryanair's own TRIs/SFIs. I would imagine Ryanair have had CAE 'over a barrel' on cost as they have had a number of issues with CAE over the past few years. OAA probably went out the window because they are no longer cost effective. I think the only training provider claiming 'bonanza status' at the moment is FR!!

Time can only tell whether the 'cadet only' recruitment policy will have its consequences. Its a cash generator first and foremost, and thats the underlying strategy. If the training department felt it was proving detremental to expansion plans then this would have been voiced to management. However it seems that the airline aren't having any real problems in picking up OCC candidates that will fill the holes created by its own upgrade process and retention rates (obviously at a very low net loss).

My guess is that they will continue with OCCs (because they can) and continue to recruit cadets (because they can). Time to command internally will take longer (due to FOs flying less hours per annum) and may eventually dry up. After all no deal has been done with Boeing and MOL has already spoken about running the airline for cash. The expansion bubble has to burst at some stage and shareholders will be looking to be paid dividends eventually.

[smith]

DEC guys seem to be taking a frontline due to ongoing expansion and the internal command failure rate.

I was recently informed (not gospal) that the upgrade success rate lies around the 50% mark [QUOTE]

Does this tell us something about the quality of FO's who bought their RHS job?

[QUOTE]If it is now true the crews per plane are closer to 5, it indicates a move away from making our pilots more productive, which means longer time to command, less annual pay and longer to build those hours to get that gold-plated legacy carrier career.



I don't think many euro-carriers would touch an ex FR guy. I know a lot of pilots who hate FR pilots for what they have done to this industry.


I hear RYR are due for 54 a/c this year @ 5 crews per a/c = 270pilots

54 aircraft will not be added to the total fleet number, the fleet number stays relatively constant, the new airframes replace "ageing" ones which used to be sold on to South American airlines as they approached their C checks, however that market seems to have dried up too.

[Callsign Kilo]

Ahh, smith. Haven't heard from you in ages! Glad to see you are still alive and acting as the 'voice of reason' when it comes to Ryanair. Good man.

Just to give you a little 'food for thought' on your 'those who bought a job therefore they must be crap' assumption/generalisation/belief. Firstly the 50% success rate isn't an accurate figure and it hasn't been published. What has been published is that first and foremost, the main reason why people fail their upgrade is because they don't prepare for it. Like any command course, the Ryanair course is both tough and intensive (sorry, this fact may not fit with what you may like to believe). I have several TRE and LTC colleagues who have commented that the most able FOs that they have come across have failed an upgrade. Not because of an inability to operate, largely because they were unprepared for what hit them. However in order to give a little consolation, I'm sure with over 2000 pilots the odd one fails the course due to ability levels.

I don't think many euro-carriers would touch an ex FR guy. I know a lot of pilots who hate FR pilots for what they have done to this industry.

Who do you know smithy? The guy down the flying club who says that if he were in the industry he wouldn't touch us? Your employer - who is that exactly anyway? Our guys and girls have regularly pissed off to the likes of BA, bmi, Virgin, Emirates, Etihad, Singapore and Cathay. I don't know many who won't hire Ryanair pilots? I'll give you KLM/Air France - however they don't do much external hiring anyway because thats their policy. Small potatoes though!

54 aircraft will not be added to the total fleet number, the fleet number stays relatively constant, the new airframes replace "ageing" ones which used to be sold on to South American airlines as they approached their C checks, however that market seems to have dried up too.

There will be a net gain in fleet because there is growth. You are right though, they can't sell aircraft at the moment.

[BALLSOUT]

smith, The total fleet size has more than doubled in the last four years. in Jan 2006 there were less than 100, now there is 210. all this has taken place while older airframes have been disposed of.

[El Sidney]

CallSign Kilo
Excellent accurate posts - you are up to date and spot on with the info:

F/O only sourced from cadet Type Rating Scheme, other OCC/Type Rated ended 2 years ago
F/O s now flying less hours than previous years, currently about 600 pa, down from the usual 880 pa, time to command is 5 years and increasing(hours required 2900)
Upgrade failure rate high, but don't know if this is better/worse than previous years, lots of disgruntled SFOs who tripped up doing the Upgade and waiting for another chance.
Rumours of changes to requirements for getting on an Upgrade course if you've failed one before or haven't got the grades in the sim.
Steady but small flow of DECs into the Company with more courses lined up for more DECs this year
Bases now up to 37 and rumours of a steady flow to follow
Rumours of new routes to non eurozone countries, a move away from the preferred shorter routes with 8 sectors a day, but where the demand currently is with the £/euro exchange rate.
Possibly an end to the growth plan and some sort of consolidation ahead, with a new boss maybe to lead us into a new era.
Shareholder payout of the cash pile as MOL says goodbye?

[thebeast]

currently about 600 pa, down from the usual 880 pa, time to command is 5 years and increasing(hours required 2900)


not true, been here 3 years plus now, always been 700-750 per year as an FO and this seems about the same across the board for an FO. I am one of the few on a RYR FO contract but doesent seem to make much difference hours wise.

[Callsign Kilo]

Thanks EL Sidney, I think we are both reading from the same page.

I would however tend to concur with 'thebeast.' I believe the 600hrs pa for FOs is a bit low. 700-750pa seems to be the average at my base. Not to say that it isn't at others. I believe BRK is still touting 850hrs to new joiners. Surprise surprise :ugh:

[go around flaps15]

Not many euro carriers would touch ex FR guys?
You are in a dreamworld arn't you? What you think and what is actually true are often two completely different things. Your previous sentiment shows your ignorance and lack of knowledge in quite a spectacular light.

I know someone that joined BA from FR.



Imagine smith. BA

[El Sidney]

Pleased to hear that other bases are faring better than ours.

Brookfield F/Os avaraging 50 a month and RYR less than this.
Don't know of one F/O who will achieve anywhere near 750 this year.

Hours seem to be declining about 10% a year.

Captains doing better with 40 - 55 sectors a month according to Fuel League published.

Still getting floaters at the Base when lots of guys are at home doing 3 standys a week. I suppose they've got to eat too!

[adwjenk]

Year one flying 750hrs, mix of being on a Ryanair contract for Line training and then BRK.

Year two about to end for me in Feb (march off) will be looking at 650hrs.

Flying only recently slowed down over December and January, no major complaints always enough to pay the bank and live half descent!

Average hours lately have been down to 41-43 for the last 2 months, before that I was low 60's to anywhere up to 100, If you budget its no big deal.


Fly safe!

[Superpilot]

If you budget its no big deal.


But, if you have kids, a mortgage, and bills you have to pay then income that goes up and down like a yo yo does not help. Why are flying hours so different from one pilot to the next? Surely if they hired just the right amount of pilots, then all would be flying 900 hours and getting paid what they deserve. I know what my view is, what's yours?

[Callsign Kilo]

Well, when you have an MD who doesn't give a tupance about 'what pilots believe they deserve' then thats what happens.

We all joined FR knowing the stories. Nothing is beyond the realms of possibility. I tell new joiners to approach it with an open mind.

The cadet is a revenue generator, first and foremost. You are right, if we had the correct amount of FOs then we would all be doing 900hrs per year. However they would be restricting the amount of pure profit that they make from the ratings. That's the way it has become unfortunately and any new joiner who thinks they will be fliying 850-900hrs a year and sail into a command course in their fourth year needs a smack round the luggs!

It still works for me and for many others. Yet I'm realistic about it. By the way, do you remember 3 or 4 years ago FOs being maxed out at 900hrs, often a month or two before the year was to end?

[Dickcheesecake]

I don't think many euro-carriers would touch an ex FR guy. I know a lot of pilots who hate FR pilots for what they have done to this industry.
Are you drunk? Ryr pilots are the perfect employees. They are used to bend over and take all the http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/nik921/poopin.gifbeing thrown at them.