KAL has cancelled their travel policy for expats?

[Kalbi]

I have heard that overnight KAL has cancelled their expat travel policy. Anybody can confirm this?

[SOPS]

whay policy are you refereing to??

[blues deville]

I am in Seoul at the Hyatt Incheon and I have no email from KAL to suggest my travel policy has changed. What is your source of this rumour?

bd :cool:

[Kalbi]

Well, my buddy who is with KAL just emailed me that from now, all travel home is to be in economy class. Any truth to it?

[Scoobs]

Blues, could you find time to give a bit of gen about KAL? I (hopefully) have screening next month ... any info about that, or working for KAL appreciated!

[blues deville]

No problem Scoobs, send me a PM.......

bd :cool:

[Maisk Rotum]

They have not changed any policy or cancelled it. They have withdrawn a hitherto unwritten privilige of space-available first class travel for captains when travelling home for days off. They are no longer wanted near 'real' first class passengers.

The decision has angered 350 plus pilots because it makes no difference to the commercial bottom line of the airline if a captains sits in first or business. What it will do though is further erode morale and ultimately safety. All this while every day they are seeking rafts of pilots who have flown almost anything jet and look to recruit 400 more expats in the next few years.

A well thought out decision. NOT.

[I am here]

That's kind of want happened with a high ranking KAL management type with his family riding in First Class.

[ws737]

I'm thinking of joining KAL and I'd be happy with the business class seat back and forth..too bad someone messed up the upgrade thing but it certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker for me

[thegypsy]

Is business class still available subject to load?

In my experience now business class has flat beds it is often full because of there being far less than before whilst first class is not.

[jetjoker]

Another change to the Terms and Conditionsdone by the Koreans without caring how this will affect the morale and the will to work the extra mile, as they expect you to do. This has really angered the Expat group and will have serious repercussions.

There is no truth to the story about a "high ranking KAL management type with his family riding in First Class" they just want to enforce a clause in the contract that by the way is being misinterpreted in their favor.

This will cost them more in the long run...not suggesting to stop being professional but dropping the economical part of the equation to the bottom of the priority list.

What needs to be done now in my opinion is get together a group of Pilots representing all Agencies and review the contract clauses for the Terms and Conditions as Credit for Duty and the Review for Cost of Living and then request the Agencies to enforce them. This will show what the Agencies are really doing for the Pilot group besides collecting their commission. This will probably reduce the number of Agencies when their true colors are revealed.

That is all I have to say about that...for now

[Kalbi]

My buddy in KAL seems to think that the KAL scheme is only business class returning to Seoul to start your trips. I was considering an application to them, but I'm based in the US and frankly going home on a 13-hour flight each month in coach is not what i'm bargaining for. I will hold off my application for now. Wanna see how this thing plays out.

[cf680c2b]

Did they cancel the FOs coach ---> business privileges too?

[B737NG]

KAL did not cancel the system, the enforce it: It was a common practice that the Captains used to travel in First and the F/O´s travel in Business Class whilst commute. The Contract stated it is Economy Class on the way home and subject to availability Business Class. On the way after the days off back to Seoul it is Business Class. What KAL does now is "enforce" the contract, hopefully in all other contents as well. Because there are clauses ignored in the past and not enforced at all because that would be a advantage for the Contractee, Agencies do not support Pilots after placement because if they would try they would jeopardize the "climate" between KAL and themselves. If a Agent provides 50 or even 80 Pilots to KAL he has the fear of being ignored by the next selection. Despite the statement, the fluctuation is too high over the past years. Too many are leaving earlier then the 5 year term, think about it when you read the shiny advertisments about the best commuting system, excellent ammenities and so on. It dresses the window and lures the desire that the grass is greener on the other side until you look at it from a diffrent angle, you then realise that the grass was greener where you were.

Some of my sources tell me that even now whilst on duty the real deadhead is applied as well to Business only, your Korean Colleague is sleeping in First, you are trying to close a eye in Business. Fair and equal treatment....?!

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[anselm787]

Stay away from KAL

Why KAL? that is a valid question who everyone has diffrent view and answer for.

It is easy to say for those who are on the Street: Better a Job then no Job.

For all others who think the Grass is greener on the other side it should be a serious consideration to evaluate if the Grass is really greener. It seems that way but in the last few years some people have learned that it was greener where they where.

Giving up a Job and take the risk to go thru training is still a valid point, even the failure rate is a little bit less then it was when it peaked a while ago. That can change again from bad to worse. Once in the mill it is depressing to learn that promises from the Agent are only "Bleed Air". No support when it comes to make a point, needless to say why. No Agency want to take it on with KAL because they fear that as a consequence Pilots from the firm Agent are not considert anymore and each Pilot placed into the system is some revenue and cash at the end of the month into the pocket. If there is a discrepancy between the contract and the way KAL-Administration is applying it then the Bermuda triangle is wide open to get nowhere. Administration sends you to your Agency to talk to them, the Agent will say everything to excuse it as a misinterpretation and a miscommunication at the first. Next he will not enforce anything at KAL because of the fear prescribed above, back to square one.

Honoring the written contract, applying it diffrent. What is minimum ten (10) in English? Ten, (10), for KAL it is Eleven, (11).... When you are sick you get penalised by leave days. You work and the hours are not credited towards your overtime even it is written in the Contract. Your are entitelt to four free tickets per year for you and your Family, confirmed Y-Class, standby C-Class. You make a booking several weeks in advance and on the day of the Family vaccation you stay behind because the flight is full and there is no seat available. The Check in Staff is not very accommodating either in ICN and you face the additional costs of taking another flight or stay in the Hotel at your own expense. The contract ? no value at all. Complaining to whom? tell it the Meter, it listens when you drop a quarter in.......The diffrence is immense, the contract does not refelect what the reality is. The promise is broken before it is even made.

There was another loss in a favour KAL was providing for the Crews, travel home for some Pilots is reduced to two days only because of Airplane Type they fly. Your are based in LAX and need to travel three days for one pattern, as a A330 Pilot you get the three days, as a B737 Pilot you get only two days. Strange counting. As KAL is hiring more Expat Pilots they now eliminate the Travel off First Class into Business Class despite that you are on the GD as a Deadhead Crew. Calling it enforcement of contractual terms......

Recently happened on a ICN-HKG-ICN flight for deadhead Crew: Korean Captain traveled in First Class to HKG, the ExPat traveled back in Business with Seat available in First.....

Confidential reports are common, they are even enforced by the Management: There are some signs behind your name and that indicates the other Pilot that the Chief Pilot is expecting a report after the voyage if proceedures are followed and how the Captain behaived. Subject to the report you can expect a surprise Line-Check with a devastating result. The track out is paved in some cases. Knife stabbing ?

Contractual terms are not enforced when the increment of pay comes into the discussion. It is missing since a while despite the fact that the company posted a profit in the fiscal year.

Racism against Expats is common. There are terms where Koreans clearly state "ForeignCrew", Foreign Captain and so on. You are not part of the Company or the team at all. The impression is that you are a obstacle in the system. The word welcome comes over the lipps but not from the bottom of the heart. Strange that strangers are still desiring that is heaven on earth. The cameradery is low, ellbow politics are high and the moral is missing in the middle. You can be on a 72 hours layover somewhere and some of your Crewmembers are not even care to say good morning when you pass them in the Hotel Lobby or somewhere around. You can try hard with a huge enthusiasm to improove the climate. Result : Kindness is seen as a weakness.

If you sit around a few guys who talk openly and tell you a few things how it is you may think they make it up. Usual for some Aviators after a few beers got drained, reality is that they only scratch the surface, most cases are more brutal then they can talk about.

Make up your mind and consider if it is worth to risk to be a target. There where good Guys expelled before they even walked into the Training. Somehow the result of a Checkride is made days before, regardless of the performance. There where Checkrides passed and then later declared as failed. No support and when someone is able to proof there was a false statement the messenger is shot because he is dare to blame. Blackmailing is also common. The moral is as low as the bottom is reached. What bottom? there is more to come below.

[Juno2]

The loss of this privilege is more than likely caused by a few crew members not towing the line in first class. KAL is enforcing the contract in this case. It is a punishment based management system at KAL and for a few missfits all have been slapped and much loyalty further eroded.

That being said this first class vs business class issue is not the real problem. It is the constant changing of contract terms over the years from pay, to sick leave going against vacation time, to days off policy, tavel, Cost of living increases and the list goes on. Contract negotiations start when the bottom line has been signed and the contractors very rarely stand up on your behalf. Beware and be prepared if you decide to go down that road.

[Kalbi]

Well that settles it. I had been seriously applying for the 777 Capt job, 'cause it sounded quite interesting. In a selfish kind of way, i'm glad this happened. Before I made the move.