Truth about being a pilot

[Tomasz]

This is a a good read, got it from avcanada.ca. Talks about the truth of being an airline pilot. Hope you like it.

The Truth About the Profession - Home (http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com/index.html)

[ab33t]

This has been posted before its pretty good .

[bucket_and_spade]

Very US/Canada-centric though - not really as applicable to this side of the pond in some areas!

[sleepyrascal]

Hey all,

Thanks for the link Tom.

One small thing though. I had a quick look through that article. I'm one of those career changers, currently an engineer in oil and gas and doing my PPL at the moment.

I have to say, there was an awful lot of negative information to absorb. Of course its good to have the truth, but is it really all that bad?? Is it perhaps a case of, the grass is greener on the other side... this guy is an airline pilot, imagine how much moaning he would be doing if he was sat behind a desk for ten hours a day, week after week, pushing a pen around. I dont mean to be disrespectful although invariably that is how it will come accross :ugh:

Is there anyone out there who can stand up and say, its a great job, sometimes it sucks, like any other job, but for anyone out there who wants to give it a go, get on board!

I currently work on a fairly lucrative (for me) project in far eastern Russia in a place which is described as a hidden gem, for a number of reasons, and everyone out there always says, "if anyone back home (UK) asks, tell them this place is really horrible and life is really tough". In reality, Its a great place and life is far from tough, but they simply dont want hoards of expats coming over hence upping the competition for the top jobs and reducing our overseas premium bonuses ..... i'm sure you can see where im going with this!! Do you think there is an element of that in the aviation world? Or are they right and aviation is :mad: ? :E

Its getting to the point where I almost feel foolish for even considering becoming a pilot. Dont get me wrong, i'm quite happy to be foolish...

God Speed :ok:

[lpokijuhyt]

That is a fantastic website! I love the part about the "pilot shortage" myth...so true! :ok:

[sleepyrascal]

Tiger, sorry to hear that you are so disappointed with your career. Do you not even enjoy the actual flying part of it... the work etc? Or is it just the admin side of things? If it is, I imagine this would be mostly due to the market for pilots being saturated and the current financial climate. Am I wrong?

Might it be the case that naturally the saturation situation will ease as less people (potential pilots) decide to commit to the industry, and the economy begins to recover?

I fly through Seoul Incheon on a regular basis. The shuttle bus to my hotel normally consists of me and a load of pilots and cabin crew who are normally laughing joking and apparently very happy indeed. It must all be a front! lol.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

The shuttle bus to my hotel normally consists of me and a load of pilots and cabin crew who are normally laughing joking and apparently very happy indeed.

If they are long haul it is because they are about to get to the hotel and finally have a cig/beer/shag. If they are really happy they are about to get all three.

[Aerouk]

sleepyrascal,

Go speak to the airlines pilots from Globespan and get their opinion on it all or BA Cabin crew that are being mucked about as well.

How about the Ryanair crews that earn pretty much nothing, or the Easyjet cadets that got dropped in 6months or the flybe crew that are having to work as cabin crew.

[sleepyrascal]

Valid points, but of course a Flyglobespan pilot will be negative considering they went bust. When our canadian client slashed our budget by 75%, my team, who I had worked with for several years, was destroyed within a matter of days. This coupled with frozen pay rises etc etc.

My point, all industries have their down falls. I could list all the bad things about the oil and gas business, but I could also make positive comments too. are there no happy stories from the aviation industry?

Somebody out there must be enjoying their work???

[Aerouk]

My instructors (when I started my flight training a number of years ago) always told me that the airline industry is gradually getting worse and worse. I'm not talking about new pilots here, I'm talking about senior captains for companies like BA Express with 20-30 years flying experience.

As I said, enjoy your GA flying that's what most of the airline pilots are still enjoying (even those that have been flying military, airlines and biz jets).

[D O Guerrero]

Ryanair crews that earn pretty much nothing? Who are they then?
I'm a Ryanair pilot and love my job. It's amazing. And I am suitably recompensed for it. I've been doing it long enough for any potential shine erosion too. I love the challenge of learning new stuff and the privilege of doing what I do for a living. Sure the crewroom can be annoying and so can some of the admin, but as soon as I leave that crewroom and see the shiny jet that I'm about to get paid to fly, all that is left behind.
Yes, it can be tiring and yes there are things that are far from perfect. But anyone that thinks any job is going to be perfect should be prepared to be very disappointed in life.

[student88]

sleepyrascal,

Go for it.

There's only one way you're ever going to find out.

Be bold, be brave. If it's something you want to do, then do it.

You only have one chance at life.

[go around flaps15]

Ryanair pilots earn pretty much nothing? Would you be so kind and elaborate on that?

This should be good.:E

[irishpilot1990]

@go around flaps 15... did you not hear they sleep in cars!:ok:

[hollingworthp]

Whether this is a good time to train or not is the subject of numerous threads although if you are still at PPL stage then there is no ticking clock for you.

When I trained it was in a tiny majority (10-15% at my FTO) of second-career guys/gals. Even at the time I felt this put me at an advantage having had 10 years in IT & recruitment being both employed and self-employed to give me perspective on grinding out a living in a job you struggle to enjoy. This was compounded when I had to give up work for 2 years to become my wife's full-time carer after significant degredation of an existing neurological disorder.

This hard experience eventually made me mentally stronger with a real yardstick to compare the daily challenges we all experience and a more positive outlook on life, work etc.

Now I was hugely lucky (I feel it was about my turn for some of the good kind) when I landed a place on the cadet scheme that I did with a company that in the grand scheme of things treats all of it's employees well (compared to most) and the cadets who joined, particularly so. Granted I also have only been in the job for a year and I do know what rose tinted glasses are.

However, long story short, I love this job. I look forward to the start of each tour and the variety of challenges that our type of operation brings. Sitting in the flight-deck at FL430 eating a quality crew meal (unfortunately these are of highly variable quality - but sometimes we hit jackpot!) and watching the sun rise/set is a priceless moment.

PS - apologies for any typos as this was from my iPod.

[sleepyrascal]

Finally someone with a positive view on things. It sounds like your journey has been full of ups and downs but I very glad you have made it and you enjoy what you do!

Thanks for the post, you need all the positivity you can get in this game!

No doubt someone will be along to shoot you down soon. Excuse the shameless pun. :ok:

Of course we need the reality and we need to be well informed about what negative aspects being a pilot can bring too, but we need a balance...

[portsharbourflyer]

Fliegertiger,

Fully appreciate why you may not enjoy your flying job; but do you seriously think you would be any happier back in a 9 to 5 deskjob.

I am in a position to comment, I didn't enjoy my first job on the heavier stuff, lots of time downroute in a hotel room, erratic roster and low salary. But having been back in my previous career for a good year and a half now, although earning more than double what I did as a turboprop FO, I would much prefer to spend the next thirty years back flying rather than in the boardroom.

Hopefully in a year or two I will be in a postion where I can afford to take the paycut to fly once again.

Sleepyrascal,

I know how much I miss flying as a full time job; however it is can take time to reach a position in the industry where you can earn sufficient money to comfortably support a family.

If you are single not so much a problem. However if you are currently earning decent money, I wouldn't never say stick to your job and fly for a hobby, because if you have desire to fly, it is an itch that has to be sratched (it is also an addiction nearly as destructive and expensive as an illegal drug). What I would recommend though is do not rush into the industry, but take time to use your current profession to get yourself
financially set up; I don't just mean raising enough cash to fund the training, but to get yourself such that you are on the property ladder with a small mortgage and with a decent amount of savings invested. That way when you do enter the industry you are in a postion where you can survive on 20K a year; further to this if you are not under pressure to earn a high salary then yes there are some enjoyable flying jobs out there.

[bucket_and_spade]

sleepyrascal,

Echoing the comments of hollingworthp - I love my job. It has its good and bad points, every career does, but on the whole I have absolutely no regrets. That's not to say I can say hand-on-heart that I won't have a thirst to try something different flying-wise in years to come but the day job for me, at the moment, is pretty sweet.

I'm a similar age to yourself and have been flying twinjets for a well-known charter airline for about 2 years now. I too worked quite a few different jobs before coming in to flying and spent a few years at uni too. It took me 2 years to pay for a PPL alongside working as wages were a pittance before training for the professional licence full-time.

It's the winter season now so I'm pretty quiet - maybe a ski flight (back home by lunch time!) and a medium haul to the Canaries. No more than 2-3 days work a week. The summer's pretty hectic and can be quite knackering but it all balances out. I get the occasional stop over for a night or two in Egypt or west Africa to keep it interesting too. The pay's great and there's opportunity for extra work (I made the equivalent of about 70k gross as a low-time FO last year!). The T&Cs vary greatly between companies and I'm not blind to the fact that the industry has changed quite a bit, even since I entered it only 2 years ago, but there are decent companies out there - yes, management can sometimes be a chore and T&Cs sometimes have to be fought for but that only makes the airline industry very similar to any other.

I'm not naive or oblivious to the downsides - like hollingworthp I have the benefit of having done other things before flying, giving me a much greater appreciation of the good, the bad and the same.

Things I love - still, on a crisp winter morning, sometimes getting a little thrill as I walk around the huge machine I'm about to fly, the view out of the window can sometimes be pretty amazing (it's always changing), I fly with some great guys (good banter!), I get to get off at the other end sometimes and lounge by the pool, do some snorkelling, quaff some beer, banter with the crew, etc. I love the responsibility and get a huge satisfaction from a job well done. I'm a bit of a geek so enjoy the technical nature of the job too. There are loads more...

Things which can be a chore - sometimes there are anti-social hours and the inability to make certain dates (birthdays, weekend nights out, etc.) can be annoying. Fatigue can be an issue. But I knew all of this when I signed up so I can't really complain.

If you keep being niggled by the feeling that it's something you want to do, then you probably have your answer as to whether to crack on!

Good luck,

B&S

[IrishJetdriver]

I fly professionally after 18yrs working in London. 9 years ago, on my very first day of line training on the 146, I looked out the window as we flew over London and saw my old office. Boy was the smile wide! Hasn't worn off either.

I don't regret a second of it but I do accept I've been mighty lucky at times. If you want to do it, and can afford to lose the lot but still look back and say "well I tried", then go for it. Not just yet though.

[8QQHC]

Nice one “bucket and spade” I think you’ve knocked it on the head along with “student88”.:ok:

I’m in the IT industry at the moment and am considering a career change. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do, so I’ve got my class1 medical (just in case) and am now doing my PPL.

I’ve read loads of scary threads and have seriously thought “what the hell am I doing?” and like you “sleepyrascal” I sometimes feel foolish. Especially as I’ll be walking away from a well paid, 4 day week job.

I’ve seen and done enough to know that there’s s#’*t in any job. Flying for fun is awesome; flying when you’re tired and want to be at home probably isn’t so awesome. Now compare that to the jubilant life of an IT developer, where one does none of it for fun.

So "Goggles On Target" as my son says

[lpokijuhyt]

There is no thinking to be done. Simply, do not become a professional pilot. You may end up regretting it.

[Piltdown Man]

I changed career at 34. In hindsight, with the entitlements and salary I had, I should have stayed where I was. But I was single, had no dependants, had enough house equity and wanted to give flying a go. So I did.

In financial terms, leaving my last 'normal' job was the worst thing I have ever done. (The second worst was invest in a pensions funds which those thieves in the city have well and truly plundered - but that's another story.) Then, to an outsider I would have looked like a lemming taking a leap. But nothing compared with the morons out there leaping now. Where do these clowns get the cash to pay for their SSTR's and line training? And it's because there appears to be a never ending plague of these prats that I'll never recommend my children fly commercially.

My flying training cost a few bob, but very little if you compare it with the income I had to forgo over the six years while training and waiting for a job. Eventually I ended up flying for worthwhile employer. But our union still has to regularly remind them that we are not going to be messed about with. And one of the reasons for this is again the "Wallys with the Wallets" have distorted the market and have devalued our occupation. That and the mentality of dross in the HR department.

And then there's the ground idiots we have to deal with. The halfwits at security, surly hotel staff, incompetent handling agents, demonic taxi drivers and strange "local rules" and "procedures". But given all that, my current job is still better than most. I get to work with some lovely people, provide a worthwhile service and get to play with a nice new, pretty toy. My employer wants the aircraft flown safely and legally and doesn't interfere with my decisions. And the view's not bad either.

So would I recommend it to others? With a few exceptions, no way! Not now. Employers are too keen to screw you, security is tiresome and you'll always be competing with some goon who's got deeper pockets than you. If you want to fly - go gliding, take up aerobatics, fly for an air force but don't change jobs to work for an airline. Especially if you have dependants and/or have to enter into debt to pay for your flying. I don't think you'll ever break-even financially and the cost to your family might be one you'll be unable to afford.

PM

[angelorange]

10 years back a new aviator could call up an airline Chief Pilot or arrange a visit to discuss recruitment. Pilot Managers either were Pilots or still flew. Many companies had reasonable perks on travel and good pensions.

There were very limited major Airline sponsorship deals (BA,BM,Britannia, AirAtlantique) or you needed 700h for a CPL (UK) and went Instructing, banner towing, even crop spraying. This changed at the turn of the century with JAR rules and with it a decline in GA Instructor numbers. However, although the glamour days of Concorde and Manned Space programmes had long gone and post 9/11 had made air travel more onerous for the passenger, a Flying Career was still an interesting idea for many wannabees.

"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse"
( Bruce Cockburn - Songs - The Trouble With Normal (http://cockburnproject.net/songs&music/ttwn.html) )


A few Flight Schools (Pilot Mills in the US) sold the idea that if you trained with them you could get the golden ticket and fly shiny big jets. "Integrated" was a term bandied around UK schools and a few of their chosen airline partners. No need to spend years working your way up from PPL through IMC, ME, BCPL, CPL, AFI, QFI, GA Turboprop, ATPL, etc

For a mere £70 to £120k you could go from zero to hero in 250h of flying training. You could work for your own money (£6k for 6 months) and maybe have a job at the end of it with a LOCO.

LOCO and the "Approved" schools brought with them what previously had been frowned upon - Pay for your own Type Rating up front. This became "normal" and STRSS/TRSS added £20-30k to Pilot training debts.

This seemed to work for a while until Increasing Greed, Mis-management, Demand for stupidly cheap travel, Fuel Prices, Terrorism, Green issues and finally a World Economy based on credit hit both Trainees and existing Pilot Ts&Cs.

Cadets now had no options after 6 months unless the LOCO offered them LOCO Cabin Crew work (so much for currency on type). Others went even further and actually PAID to Fly Passengers (another £20k for 150 to 500h of "Line Training"). PTF is a common thread on PPRUNE Ts&Cs section. Plenty there but in summary these folk have nothing but more debt after 6 months than the cadets they follow in the dole queue.


Since the 70s Pilot T&Cs in real terms have gone through the floor.

For those already in such Airlines, FOs wanting to get hours to become SFO or work towards a Command have had to sit on Standby while PTFs fly their sectors. Whilst TREs and Line Captains have to cope with more cockpit gradient due to inexperience.

Pilot Managers no longer have to understand anything about Piloting, Airliners become mere Buses to Accountants and Automation means Pilots began loosing some of the Skills they had started to learn at the very beginning.

For those who went the JAR route and straight into shiny jets, their regular A-B automated flights are more and more routine (both crew on laptops was a recent US example) . Airbus worries about Pilot Handling skills (Long Haul 3hr manual flying per year). Medics point to fatigue issues with LOCO 4 sector days or Jet Lag Long Haul. Managers just want to cut costs. 6/2, 6/3 or 2 weeks on 1 week off lifestyles can benefit Divorce lawyers, the list goes on and explains why many are down in the mouth about the careers they have chosen.

Stateside the Pilot Mills put youngsters into Regional A/c without much guidance. Salaries were so low (less than airport toilet cleaners) and jobs only available far away form home that Fatigue was a life threatening issue (Colgan crash 2009).

But some parts of the Industry do benefit. It's not just shareholders or CEOs. HR has grown massively with internet applications just one of 100 hoops for pilot wanabees to jump through. Give them psychometric tests, panel interviews, even hand writing analysis! (which doesn't work anyway!).

So Airline HR might be a better place to earn a crust.

[G SXTY]

After nearly fifteen years in a previous career, I’m coming up for two years in the RHS of a turboprop, and still as happy as a dog with two willies.

But that’s just me – other people’s attitudes to this job vary widely depending on their background (perspective if you will) and the company they end up flying for. I was fortunate to qualify at the peak of the job market, very fortunate to find an airline job within a couple of months, and extremely fortunate to work for an outfit that’s as secure as anyone, doesn’t expect its pilots to pay for type ratings, and isn’t out to screw us at every opportunity. Many people are less fortunate, which might explain some of the responses on this thread.

In my experience, the jaded, cynical and downright miserable sods you occasionally meet (and every airline has them) are generally people who have spent their entire careers flying aeroplanes, and have known nothing else. Career-changers are often more positive, probably because we have experienced the ‘real’ world, and appreciate that airline life – despite all its downsides – compares rather well.

And it’s worth repeating the downsides, if only to temper that rose tinted view of commercial flying that wannabes inevitably have. I don’t enjoy getting up at 3am to scrape ice off the car, and after a couple of earlies I’m frankly knackered (note that certain low-costs will roster you an entire week of earlies in one go). When you look up at vapour trails in a clear blue sky, remember that we also fly around in quite horrible weather, often into pretty demanding airfields, and are expected to do so safely and consistently. Try dodging CBs and icing all the way down the Channel, then fighting your way into Guernsey with a 200’ cloudbase and 30kt crosswind, doubtless with an autopilot that doesn’t want to play. Maybe on your sixth sector of the day. Repeat ad nauseum.

If weather raises your blood-pressure, that’s nothing compared to airport ‘security’, many of whom would fail selection at McDonald’s, but have the capacity to ruin your day before it even starts (by, for example, refusing to let you take your flightcase through on the grounds that a catch is jammed on the front flap, meaning “we can’t search it”, even though it has been accepted in that condition, day-in, day-out for over a year). :ugh:

When you finally get on board the aircraft, you’ll spend the day locked in an office with the dimensions (and often the smells) of a downstairs loo. Maybe with someone you don’t particularly like. Go flying, and the boxes in the back monitor everything you do – step outside ‘safe’ parameters for a few seconds and mission control will know about it in real time. Expect a message waiting when you switch on your mobile, inviting you to a hats-on interview to explain your actions. In slow time.

And then there’s the sim. Find me another profession where you effectively resit your final exams every six months for your entire career. They’ll tell you it’s “testing with a small ‘t’ and training with a big ‘t’ ” – except that it isn’t, because your performance (and grade) will depend in large part on whether you’re in during the day or the wee-small hours, and whether you have a sympathetic trainer or an egoist who gets off on breaking people.

Social life can be difficult – holidays must be booked six months in advance, and short-notice parties or family get-togethers are nigh-on impossible. I could go on; medicals, job insecurity, jobsworths, disruptive passengers, schedule disruption, inane rostering, etc etc.

And yet I still love the job, so much so that I miss it after a few days off. I love the mental and technical challenge of flying a plane-load of passengers from A to B safely, smoothly and efficiently. I get a buzz from executing a well-flown CDA without touching VNAV (I know, I’m sad). I love flying over my house at 7am, drinking bad coffee and watching the sun rise above a sea of cotton wool, knowing that all the miserable commuters that I used to share a train with are still standing on exactly the same spot on a cold, wet platform, waiting for the exactly the same train that they have always caught, and always will. Most of all, I just love flying; flying it as smoothly as I can, hand-flying, and even the occasional 30-knot crosswind landing. Just not into Guernsey.

That’s my ‘truth’ about being a pilot – I’m an enthusiast and for me it’s one of the best jobs in the world. I can’t imagine doing anything else. There are as many other stories as there are pilots, and it would be wise to listen to as many of them as possible before making your own mind up whether this is the career for you.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Actually I love 5 earlies in a row. By the 3rd one you've adjusted and actually can go to sleep early enough to get a proper nights rest. Random rostering would be something I'd strike to avoid.

Other than that an excellent post espousing a view I share.


WWW

[sleepyrascal]

G,

Thank you for posting a balanced opinion. I really enjoyed reading that.

I dont know if I will go commercial but one thing is certain having ready this thread start to finish and that is i'm glad im doing the modular route and I'm looking forward to just following my nose.

I still think most of the major issues pilots bring up can be found in many other jobs, such as mine.


Early starts: Check
Airport security: i rack up around 75,000 air miles a year so, Check
time away from home: I only spend 15 weeks at home per year, Check
Working with difficult people: Check
Working under stress: Check
mass job losses: over 300 form my company last year so, Check
missing family events, so far, in the past 6 months ive missed, fiances birthday, xmas, new year, two funerals of close relatives, and most annoying, curry night this saturday:mad:

etc.

[Sciolistes]

I have to agree with G-SXTY. As a career changer a couple of years whence, I also am not looking back. This is a different life, the quality of which is on a totally different strata. This dog has three willies!

[gone till november]

G-SXTY

[QUOTE]After nearly fifteen years in a previous career, I’m coming up for two years in the RHS of a turboprop, and still as happy as a dog with two willies/QUOTE]

Happy as a dog with two willies.:):):):):ok:......didn't 'arf make me laugh.

Sleepyrascal

Its obvious that you are doing the right thing and asking what its all about. And has become common on this rapidly descending website it attracts way more Naysayers than the rest of us who are genuienly happy in the job. In fact i wont call it the job but being paid for what i love.

Ohh im flying an Airbus or Boeing and im not happy with everything else that comes with the job.

No matter what you do be it a dustman doctor or priest every job has its downside. The real pilots are those who can even when a huge sh1t sandwich is dealt your way you can at least find one thing positive about it.

I did EDI to LCY for two and a half years twice a day and do you know what i loved every minute of it. Yes somedays were harder than others and some of the crew were people you would give the steam of your turds to if they were cold.....but i still loved the job.

The views the challenges the quick turn arounds the wx the cabin crew etc etc etc all added to a tireing but satisfying day......ON ONE ROUTE.

I now work for Netjets and thats another whole world of flying and after 7 years of flying commercially plus 3 years of instructing i still love this game and still look forward to getting up and going to fly.

Problem is in my mind is that too many people want too much from flying and arent just happy with the views the sights the sounds the feelings etc etc etc that you believed were there when you were dreaming about being a pilot. In my small mind its there and a whole lot more and my glass is always half full.

GO FOR IT and enjoy it for what it is and not what you may think it is and ignore the crap that does come with the job but its all about how you approach it.....hope that makes sense.

[8QQHC]

Thanks lpokijuhyt - but I may NOT end up regretting it!

[sleepyrascal]

Thanks November! I enjoyed reading that too!

Its really good to have a balanced opinion. :ok:

[stefair]

Four willies here! :E

Finished training in 2008. Modular. IR in Florida and Spain. Never seen a real cloud.

Got a SE VFR flying job right after. Good fun. Great experience. Pretty much no pay.

Now flying as freelance FO a six seater twin. No pay but great ops.

Second flight with outfit ended with first-time hand-flying an ILS through clouds and heavy rain showers throwing the aircraft around. Not really what I had been used to... The moment we cut through the cloud base, the sound of rain hammering onto the aircraft, and spotting the RWY lights was simply over the top. Unforgettable.

On another occasion, SID. Wet runway. Heavy rain showers over airport. Low cloud base. After takeoff in complete IMC within seconds. Hand-flying all. You hear the sound of the engines. You listen to the monotonous sound of the radio. You stare at the instruments. Fiddling with the radio. Changing to 29.92. CRM as best as possible. Flying turns according to assigned headings. Climb. Level off. Climb. FL100 cutting out of the clouds and leveling off. Sun is shining. In your face. Words fail me to describe. Worth every effort.

I cannot imagine how good it feels when I will eventually get paid... :cool:

[lpokijuhyt]

Thanks lpokijuhyt - but I may NOT end up regretting it!


You can do whatever floats your boat. I guess you already made up your mind.

[7574ever]

stefair

No pay huh? So... how do you pay for food/house etc? Just a dumb question from a CPL holder, currently attending university. I'm ok with low pay for a while, but in the long run I like to eat and sleep in a bed!! :rolleyes:

[fade to grey]

well here we go again with another circular topic, things I can state with certainty:
- there will always be bright young things willing to do anything to fly planes
- there will always be old farts who have had enough of it
- there will always be career changers who's old jobs were so damn awful
they get a boner over every aircraft they see.

I think the major concern of those who have been around a bit is that we are on a downwards slope, not that flying a plane for cash is a bad job because it ain't.

However T+Cs seem to be in terminal decline in some areas and I do seriously wonder what will be left in 20 years

[philc1983]

Got a SE VFR flying job right after. Good fun. Great experience. Pretty much no pay.


So not a JOB then as you need remuneration for it to count. Good experience absolutely but not a professional flying position.

[Desk-pilot]

Another mid-life career changer here and almost three years in flying turboprops. I still enjoy it for all the reasons people have mentioned above, however I'm now eager to advance my pay and lifestyle. Pay is about £32k including flight pay. Lifestyle consists of working 5/2 or 6/3 which in an average month comprises 4 standby's, 9 days off, 14 days which are 4 sector days and about 4 days that are 2 sectors. Personally that's a little too much work for too little pay for my liking!!

I fancy a nice job with a decent charter outfit - 2/3 days work a week for £70k sounds a much better deal!!

Now therein lies the issue. Eventually most people end up with kids as I have and £32k doesn't really provide a nice family house and a nice lifestyle (which is what I comfortably afforded in the previous IT job). I definately am frustrated with the earnings to workload ratio and with none of the better companies hiring at the moment like many people am kinda stuck.

Would I go back to the old IT job though - no way!! In terms of enjoyment of the job there really is no comparison.

Desk-pilot

[Merchant Banker]

I have a feeling that it is something we better get used to Desk-Pilot. Nice jobs paying a First Officer 70k a year for 3 days? Can you please let me in on this! I dont think these jobs will be so easy to come by in the near future what with pay to fly schemes etc. Maybe try abroad, but I think its over in the UK unless I am mistaken?

[r44flyer]

Eventually most people end up with kids as I have and £32k doesn't really provide a nice family house and a nice lifestyle (which is what I comfortably afforded in the previous IT job).

I think this comes down to perspective. Some people, presumably such as yourself, take large pay cuts to become professional pilots, whereas others may aspire to a salary of £32k. Personally I think a combined household salary of £60k-ish would provide a comfortable family home and many luxuries, providing one doesn't have a big ego to feed. This of course depends on whether your other half wants to be a housewife for the foreseeable future or if she wants to work for a living when kids are at school.

You can't, especially now, expect similar effort and expenditure of time between IT and aviation industries to yield comparable salaries. Aviation is increasingly becoming a job you do for the passion, not for the money it pays.

[GA Button]

Five willies here!!

I've been flying for 20 years, 13 commercially and I still absolutely love it. Always look forward to going to work (long and short haul) and always have a good time - even on hard days. Outside of work I still instruct and love that too.

There are ups and downs - take them in your stride. Once you are established in the job make sure you join the fight to protect/improve T's and C's.

I say go for it sleepyrascal and the very best of luck to you :-)

[stefair]

No pay huh? So... how do you pay for food/house etc? Just a dumb question from a CPL holder, currently attending university. I'm ok with low pay for a while, but in the long run I like to eat and sleep in a bed!!

Well, I was provided free housing and the occasional meal. Usually savings paid for food.

As many said here before, on top of the training costs you need to budget for the first job (tug plane, aerial photography, dropping chutes) that will not pay at all or not enough but will get you the hours to qualify for a higher paying job.

Most important thing is, stay in the industry and get your face known. Jobs will come along.

[gone till november]

GA Button

Nice story. I hope the doom merchants can glean something from that.:ok:

Merchant Banker

No or very few flying job starts at 70k but patience and or good career planing will bring that about soon enough.

Part of the problem with the naysayers is that they want it all....NOW.:confused: I started on £21k with my first TP job then £46k with my second job (jet) and now about £65-70k £ to € conversion dependant with same job....all within 6 years If commands were still happening it would be £100k but that will have to wait.

Sleepyrascal

Go for it mate its worth it just like GSXTY GA button etc all say. You will be like a dog with (what we up to now...oh yeah) 6 willies thrown into a field of bitches and a couple of tubes of KY.

If as does happen to many, it doesn't work out for you (mostly down to lack of hard work flexibility and gumption) at least you've tried and then go back to what ever you then want to do in life knowing you gave it a shot.

Good luck and hope to cross you in the sky one day.....1000ft apart you understand.