Biz Jet employment contracts

[protogenio]

Does anyone agree that the standard of employment contracts in the Biz world are pretty appalling these days?I think there is a lack of transparency and most of the entitlements are ommited with lack of protection in the Biz jet world,I guess because there are no pilots councils or Balpa reps this industry is overlooked?:confused:

[clivewatson]

Easy answer - don't accept the job if you are not happy with the terms - let someone who wants it more than you, and there will be plenty of them in line right now. Why should the rules of supply and demand NOT apply in our line of business?

[ab33t]

You most likely find its the guy that has a job that is complaining , but accepted the conditions when taking the job. Leave if you are not happy I need a job

[unablereqnavperf]

The last thing in the world this industry needs at the momet is bloody BALPA !!!!! As has been said if you don't like the conditions don't take the job!
If you accepted the conditions nd took the job tough. Grow up stand on your own two feet.

[potatowings]

If you accepted the conditions nd took the job tough. Grow up stand on your own two feet.

I can see exactly where you are coming from and have had to negotiate several employment contracts from ridiculous, to "a bit more sensible", however I know that as a young pilot, inexperienced and desperate I was stiffed a couple of times.

Sometimes I do think and international "body" of pilots, not a union, that agreed a basic set of principles would be a benefit to business aviation.

Even within my company I have seen two pilots that should be equal earning vastly different sums with big differences in T's & C's.

Some pilots just aren't good businessmen.

[protogenio]

Potato wings exactly my thoughts,its a case of setting a ball park rather than accepting random t & c's and that has to come from us the pilots.
I think there should be some control or external monitoring of the corporate industry by a level medium run by pilots.
Lets look to get better benchmark on things like contracts/rosters/salaries etc:ok:

[potatowings]

Absolutely.

The number of times I've heard a manager say that they "benchmarked" my contract against other comparable operators.

Either the benchmark was against smaller or more common aircraft. Or a non-comparable operator.

Yet when they marketed their product they compared themselves to bigger and better operators.

Only natural I know, but it still is frustrating. Especially when you talk to your so-called "benchmark" and discover that you were being led down a muddy garden path.

So who should benchmark for us?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

There is a lot of twoddle spouted about keeping up the salary, enforcing the contract, etc, etc.

The 7 year cycle is the norm, and the situation will change.

In the interim, the bench mark, is feed the family, pay the mortgage, and see whats left over.

Middle East contracts are famous for being written in sand.

Look at the long game....if you stave to death, you are no use to the family.

Just do your best, and feel proud that you actually have a job, even if it is in China, Russia, Dubai, or wherever.

glf

[potatowings]

Believe me Gulfstream, I am proud, and right now I have excellent terms and conditions and my career is on the up & up. I have however not been so fortunate in the past.

I'm talking about this situation.

A minimum benchmark, in my opinion, would be a great benefit to younger pilots.

[protogenio]

It is a tragedy but also part of our life cycle of Boom and Bust/Yin and Yang that we yo-yo between clawing back terms and conditions on the wave of good times,only then to be kicked in the back and robbed during riskier times.
I guess its the way of this industry,I have seen several recession's in my aviation career and this yo-yo-ing of T & Cs still gives me a headache.
If there is such a collection of dismay amongst the pilots its thier responsibilty to refuse these poor contracts if thier circumstances dictate and force the hand of thier employer to raise the bar,allowing the not so fortunate at the bottom of the ladder to have half a chance to have the bare minimum and at least a transparent structured agreement.
I think the 'Transparency' of contracts is the most irksome issue I have,its nice to know in black and white,what you can or cannot have,full stop,whether your in Ireland/China/India or Timbuktu !
Pilots have to stop themselves occasionally from the selfish act of taking without a concscience and be mindful of the reverberations within the industry of accepting utter tosh contracts written with magic ink !!:sad:

[lanef300]

I obviously agree with every one here. I find myself in the delicate situation of being unemployed and without an extensive resume to allow for a job...
Yet it would be nice to have this mindset of being reasonable regarding TCs. Sure right now we can't ask for millions, but let's not accept everything on the principle that flying is a passion, so one should be ready to do anything for that.
I tend to believe part of my job as an instructor was to try and show that to my students too. Even though your school might promote some ...well schemes I would disagree with (like paying a T/R or such) we spend enough time with a student to discuss those matters. And that would raise the bar a bit, wouldn't it?

[skylog]

Midnight Cruiser..i could'nt have said it better myself...well said :ok: