North Weald

[Call Sign Maverick]

I was wondering why no body had thought about taking on North Weald (Essex) and making it into an Executive jet airport for London like biggin hill or northolt.
Is right on the M11/M25, - 30 mins into the center of Lonon.
Has a masive area with large existing hangers that could be great for someone like jet aviation or a large Maintenance company to use for aircraft maintenance work.
Its got a very good solid runway. 1980 meters, which is bigger than Biggin , City, Oxford, Southend, and on par with Farnborough.
Its surrounded by open fields and farm land.
Its owned by Essex County Council and they are keen to sell, or develope the site for extra revenue (wants it to remain an airport).
I just thought that this is a little gold mine that could be developed.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

It would make a good diversion from LCY or other London airports due to its good road links.

Has it got an ILS?

[Call Sign Maverick]

I dont think its got much in the way of equipment but, i recon this could be a great development opportunity.
Its still very active, with flying clubs, air shows, glider days. there are a few old Raf jets flying in and out on personal use. and a lot of war aircraft there in the hangers. ( private musum ).

[Daifly]

A group of people have been working on that for ages, but the proximity to Stansted means has precluded instrument approaches (at the moment anyway) and that is a showstopper for a business airport.

The team there were waiting for the results of the GPS approach at Shoreham if I recall correctly to see if that is something that could be used to avoid Stansted, but I suspect Airspace Policy will have the final say.

It could still server as a good VFR airport though I guess - unlicensed of course.

It would be very handy for the 2012 site too (if London City's really going to be closed for the duration as suggested).

[ab33t]

It belongs to the council and the airport has actually been under threat of closure for many years now. Developers have been trying to get their hands on the land as well

[Romaro]

Dailfly

Who says LCY is closing for the Olympics?!!? Is that just an assumption because of the anticipated security issues?

Who owns the lease on North Weald these days and how long has that got to run? The Sunday market is huge and is a bit of an issue if you were trying to do anything seriously commercial. Blackbushe used to make a lot more from the market than they did from aviation-related revenues - probably the same at Wellesbourne?

You could say the same perhaps about Dunsfold - perhaps less airspace issues?

[Call Sign Maverick]

The market is on a sat, its quite large but its well away from the runway and buildings, its on an area well away from any of the airport operations, and could acutually be fenced off.
In regards to oho ownes it , well essex county council owns it but is keen to do something with it, (except build houses).
I know its about 12 miles from Stansted but biggin hill is probably that from Gatwick, and you have a number of airfields close to Heathrow (northolt, blackbush, farnbrough, ect ect).
I think that North weald would be great if someone took it on is you can be in the center of London in about 20-30 mins from there, doen the M11/ or use the M25 or A13.
The runway is nearly 2000 meters paved, and has some masive hangers in place.
Would make a great Executive airport, and a base for private jets and choppers. Just need a good FBO to take it on, and add some equipment. I understand its un licenced but i am sure there is a way to fix this.
just seams like a good inversment.

[Opsbeatch]

Daifly is correct, it's been looked at for years. No joy as of yet!

OB

[Daifly]

I think it's already been announced to the industry forums (real ones, not online ones) that LCY will be closed on the days of the opening and closing ceremonies of both the main Games and the Paralympics. And the impression that was given was that it was very much undecided what would happen inbetween for security reasons.

Dunsfold now suffers from NIMBY problems though I think? Or actually might have been reverse-NIMBY problems in that they wanted the airfield operational more than building the houses on the southern boundary of it - can't quite remember. Plus the road infrastructure at Dunsfold is pants, whereas North Weald even has its own motorway junction!

But I agree that NW is a great option - it's just a shame they decided that Hatfield and Leavesden were better as industrial complexes else we'd not be having this debate about airport access in the South East already...

[Call Sign Maverick]

plus at Dunsfold you may get hit by the Stig or clarkson.

[choxs]

Its been looked at & thought about for years...however, the bottom line is as good as the idea is, do we really need another GA airfield? not really!

Just look at Coventry! The best thing to do would be to develop either Blackbushe, Booker or even Fairoaks.

[Call Sign Maverick]

Yes there is that but, you have, biggin in the South East, Farnbrough in the West, you need someting in north London.

North Weald could take a lot of pressure away from Luton, Stansted. and is better placed than for London than, Cambridge, Fairoaks, Blackbush and Southend.
It has its own turning off the M11. Already had a 2000 meter runway in place Masive empty hangers.

All i am saying is its a good idea, and i think you will agree there are already a few options west of London so i dont think they need another Private aircraft airport.

Somewhere like North Weald would be ideal, given that ECC are looking at selling / developing it.

I would have thought it could have been an Ideal Base for LEA's Aircraft, and some of the smaller / start up companys to base their jets.

I also understand it has fuel and fire in place. as well as a working tower.

[choxs]

I know what your saying but.......

To be honest in my personal opinion Cranfield could be the Biggin Hill of the North. With the M1 now upgraded it has excellent links to North London (Wembley) its basic infrastructure is already in place, it has a fantastic 1800 metre runway and has land for development. You could have a fantastic FBO facility there. Just like NetJets were proposing 24 months ago before the big recession.

All that needs to be done is a change of airport management, a team who wants to develop the airport further and before you know it all the Private Jets will be coming from Luton & Stansted and the old coventry. You can access London as well as the midlands with ease.

[belowradar]

The main drawback at North Weald is the fact that it is owned and managed by the local council. Aviation is not their core business and they haven't got a clue how to run an airport. They are more interested in running model aero clubs on the main runway and telling real aircraft to bugger off so that they can demonstrate to Joe public that this is a great "leisure" facility for local council tax payers.....actually it isn't and the council should sell it and concentrate on providing real services that are desperately needed like decent bin collections and swimming pools etc.

The money that the council spends to keep open an airport that they don't want is unethical (no shortage of pick up trucks to jolly around in but no chance that we could clear a few inches of snow).

Yes a private FBO should buy this great airfield and get it running the way that it could and should be run !!

[Call Sign Maverick]

great answer.
Well its up for sale i ve been told so hopefully someone will take buy it or ask Ecc to run it.
This would be great for London. and the private Jet industry.

[Vino Collapso]

So all you need now is a player with many millions of cash going spare and willing to spend it with no guarantee of seeing a return on investment, probably ever.

You need to get the place a CAA Aerodrome Licence (by no means easy)
You need full aerodrome lighting for night ops.
You need instrument approaches (precision like ILS, not GPS)
You need licenced ATC and enough controllers to staff the place.
You need to upgrade fire cover to a much higher level.
You will need far greater fuel storage facilities.

Oh and a decent VIP terminal. The 'Squadron' will not make the grade, or their dodgy lavatories.

If it was a good business plan someone would have done it by now.

[belowradar]

You need to get the place a CAA Aerodrome Licence (by no means easy)
This used to be an MOD base so should be a formality but CAA will want wads of dosh !
You need full aerodrome lighting for night ops.
Call a local electrician ? Ah yes CAA fee for OK
You need instrument approaches (precision like ILS, not GPS)
Why not lead the way and be the first precision GPS airfield ? (oh yes, I just remembered good old, pushing the envelope of technology not, CAA )
You need licenced ATC and enough controllers to staff the place. That will cause problems when the existing chaps are trying to get 40 winks !
You need to upgrade fire cover to a much higher level. There is a volunteer fire service ready and waiting with the best trucks I have seen at a local airfield, just not wanted by the local council
You will need far greater fuel storage facilities.

Oh and a decent VIP terminal. The 'Squadron' will not make the grade, or their dodgy lavatories. How about a marquee and some up-market portaloos ?

There are always obstacles and yes it will need investment but at the moment it is a terrible wasted opportunity, the main thing that is required is in place and that is a decent long runway.

[Xavier Dosh]

Daifly is right about LCY for the 2012 Olympics and makes very valid points about the possible development of North Weald.

Most GA operators would agree that it appears to be an attractive option for London as the road links into town are pretty good. We looked at relocating to North Weald in 2000 but there were restrictions on operating hours etc. We did base an aircraft there for a short while which worked quite well but wouldn’t have worked long term.

To develop NW as a London Airport would incur plenty of NIMBY opposition - which will need money and time to address before any investment can be made in airport equipment and infrastructure. Thereafter, to get North Weald up to the level that you're suggesting will take millions of pounds in investment with no real guarantee of custom.

The current residents at North Weald are always friendly and professional but I don’t think the kind of idea we’re talking about will ever become a reality.
XD

[Romaro]

Concur with much of the above but there are way too many barriers to making it into something useful

Farnborough has had over £100 million pumped into it since being taken over by TAG from its previous incarnation and that was one hell of a lot better equipped and in better condition than North Weald is today.

The Nimbys will kill off any hope unless you have a public enquiry and it's part of a national aviation policy to develop some of these old airfields - it isn't and so it won't happen.

Airspace issues are significant.

For what is required on the ground and by the CAA (or EASA one day), you will never get a return on the investment and you'll never be allowed scheduled services in all liklihood, which could expedite that ROI - so forget it.

Nice idea but way too much needs doing. Newquay just spent £58m tidying up the edges to appease the CAA. It's a great big lump of crumbling concrete stuck in the middle of Essex - that is all. Almost every single element, component, wire, drain, surface - you name it, has to be dug up and/or thrown away.

[Pace]

Really what should drive the location of a London corporate aircraft airport location is simple.

How long does it take to get into the City. Is there a fast rail link that can whisk you in in less than 30 minutes door to door?

North Weald is excellent but its main drawback being the conflict with Stanstead and it needs an instrument approach to be workable.

The ideal is Northolt. The MOD should relinquish their hold on the airport and allow it to be fully developed as a business aircraft centre. Fast connections into central London.

All the others are way to far out in TIME or in areas of road congestion.

Southend could work with a regular high speed non stop rail link from Liverpool street.

Even Lydd with a rail connection from Ashford and a fast non stop rail service would work.

One of the best with a 20 minute rail service into Marlybone is Denham home of the leafy lanes, Golf courses and Hooray Henries. Dig up the Golf courses, widen and extend the runway :D and we could give the idle resident associations years of purpose in their lives :ugh:

The marker should be can you get into the centre in 30 mins or less

Pace

[belowradar]

The ideal is Northolt. The MOD should relinquish their hold on the airport and allow it to be fully developed as a business aircraft centre. Fast connections into central London.

Last year I flew into Northolt and noticed that Netjets were operating in and out with some excellent facilities so I think the MOD have relaxed their grip in exchange for money

[Vino Collapso]

[QUOTE]You need to get the place a CAA Aerodrome Licence (by no means easy)
This used to be an MOD base so should be a formality but CAA will want wads of dosh !/QUOTE]

Unfortunately the MOD model of an aerodrome frequently does not meet with the CAA/ICAO ideal. Farnborough was a real classic. Look how much usable runway is left after 'obstacles' in the approach and climb out were treated to civillian tolerances. This despite it being used to its full length by the MOD throughout history.

[Call Sign Maverick]

What other benifts could North Weald be used for?

Aircraft Base?
Maintenance?
Servace Center?
Flight Training?

Fron North Weald you can be in the center of London in under 30 mins on the M11, or jump on the underground central line at epping (1 mile away) and go anywhere. - 20 mins to liverpool street ect- 15 mins to Stratford.

The Main thing is the Run way is already in place (near 2000 menters). large moden hangers are present, Control tower is there. Lots of parking space. security fenceing in place. an owner who is looking to sell or rent it out. a fire cover like nothing i ve seen for an airport with not alot happening. Appliances & Crew, North Weald Fire Rescue (http://www.northwealdfirerescue.org.uk/appliances.htm)
and most of all alot of people that want to see the airport used as an airport and not for housing.
Maybe Netjets/Oceansky / Jet Aviation or someone could develope it.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Great location, and Mr TAG has plenty of money.

Better than spending on Conningsby, IMHO.

glf

[chevvron]

North Weald could only ever be a VFR only airport due to constraints of airspace re iaps. An iap from the north could not have a 'platform' altitude high enough for IFR terrain clearance. An iap from the south might be feasible were it not for the fact that the MAP would need to allow aircraft to climb to safety altitude which is not possible with Stansted (note no 'a' in Stansted) being so adjacent.
Basically it's too close to Stansted's iaps/SIDs to be anything other than a VFR airport.
The length of Farnborough's runway is immaterial; suffice to say it's 'artificially' short and terrain clearance has little to do with it.
Northolt has its NIMBYs even though it's MOD, and there's no room to extend the runway, which already has a 3.5 deg glidepath due to obstructions.

[belowradar]

North Weald could only ever be a VFR only airport due to constraints of airspace re iaps.

Only if you apply our blinkered UK approach to this challenge

Have a look at Orlando International and Orlando executive as an example of airports in close proximity with different requirements.

There is nothing to prevent some form of approach to be developed for North Weald (Precision GPS perhaps) and for the airspace to be reviewed and changed if necessary to ensure safety with Stansted. A bit too radical for some no doubt but a reasonable solution could be found if there was a will to do so.

I am always amazed at how "impossible" things seem to be in this part of the world. If we sent men to the moon then we can certainly create some kind of workable instrument approach for NW.

As for the great Housing V Aviation battle I don't wish to reopen that recent wound but I wonder if an airpark community for pilots to build houses on their own plots and create an aviation community would be a good compromise and would ensure the continued use of NW for GA.

[Vino Collapso]

[QUOTE]The length of Farnborough's runway is immaterial; suffice to say it's 'artificially' short and terrain clearance has little to do with it./QUOTE]

It does not suffice to say 'it's artificially short'. Now why would anyone make a runway 'artificially' short? No one volunteers to displace landing thresholds by that amount without good reason. A slab 2440 metres long with an LDA of 1800 metres! Must be environmental then.

If North Weald wanted to introduce an IAP then under the terms on their licence granted by the CAA NERL must consider all requests. The entire licence document is too large to quote here but this snippet is interesting:-

8. Subject to paragraph 7, the Licensee shall not unduly discriminate against or give preferential treatment to any person or class of persons in respect of the terms on which services are provided, to the extent that such terms have or are intended to have or are likely to have the effect of preventing, restricting or distorting competition in any market.

The CAA DAP would take a dim view of NERL (NATS and its other guises) dictating that a certain aerodrome may be VFR only because it would 'interfere' with their business. Not their decision to make.

[chevvron]

Stansted is nothing to do with NERL.

[Vino Collapso]

[QUOTE]Stansted is nothing to do with NERL./QUOTE]

Pedant mode been left switched on?

Lets use the coverall of NATS to encompass both En-route and Airport Services. BAA contract NATS for the airport services at Stansted. But both en-route and airport services would be involved in discussion if North Weald ever wanted an IAP.

[chevvron]

No just NSL: Terminal Procedures/LTCC Ops.

[StressFree]

How can anyone really say that NW can't be developed due to airspace issues? Go to the Los Angeles TMA and see how many smaller airfields occupy the same space, look at Le Bourget and De Gaulle, Nice and Cannes etc. we've got SUCH a negative attitude here in the UK...........:ugh:

[chevvron]

I'm not saying NW can't be used as a business airport, just that the interaction with an ever more busy Stansted would make it extremely unlikely there could be an iap. I've sat on the Essex radar position myself and seen the traffic. Airfields like Blackbushe and Fairoaks are VFR only and take business traffic with few constraints, so there's no reason NW couldn't operate in the same way.

[Romaro]

Whilst it is all great fun debating and playing fantasy airports, some of the posts here are really in in cloud cuckoo land.

Don't underestimate UK red tape - there is simply not a hope in hell of 'developing' North Weald from a political perspective, planning perspective, national aviation policy perspective, or legally, with NATS and CAA and EASA compliance/approval/moral support or otherwise.

This is not the USA (or France for that matter) - we are the worse possible country in the western hemisphere to do anything logical so far as aviation infrastructure is concerned. Any other country in Europe, you might have a small chance - but not here - there are barriers that would make the most maverick of dreamers cry.

Sorry, but its a complete waste of hot air.

It will forever remain unlicensed and as it is today - or closed altogether - or used by Top Gear when Dunsfold is developed!

[Barnaby the Bear]

Apart from the 10s of millions that would need pumping into North weald to bring it up to scratch. The runway I understand would need a complete overhaul. It may be long, but its not very strong.

Great Bacon Sarnies though! :}


However, Southend is on the verge of gaining permission for a 300m extension (Council voted 14-3 in favour. Awaiting Article 14 outcome). The railway station is mid construction, and the new control tower construction begins shortly. :ok:

[Arkwright]

I agree its a shame that North Weald cannot be developed into more than it currently is. There is no comparison to Blackbushe or Fairoaks which are far smaller and don't have anywhere near as good infrastucture.

Although the runway has been stated as "weak" I doubt that much more than a re-surface would suffice for a bizjet/GA airport. There are a hell of a lot of UK airfields still with original MOD concrete topped off with grooved bitumen working just fine!

It would "just" need an ILS installation. I say "just" because of the huge cost of such an undertaking.

Airspace "issues" are just a state of mind. The UK attitude is very negative. Just look at many US cities to find GA airports nestled in between major international hubs and that works!

[Pace]

However, Southend is on the verge of gaining permission for a 300m extension (Council voted 14-3 in favour. Awaiting Article 14 outcome). The railway station is mid construction, and the new control tower construction begins shortly.

Delighted that they have seen the potential of Southend as a London Airport.
Now they need a fast direct non stop railway connection into Liverpool street.
The stop at every station is a pain while a non stop should take the trip to around 30 minutes.

Pace

[perryportugal]

I think many are missing the point here. The most important thing is the road links. I have come across very few biz jet passengers that would even consider rail travel from airport to town centre. It is hard to imagine anyone arriving by private jet and then taking a train to Central London. It will not happen. Without doubt Northolt and LCY are the best options for passengers and that will probably never change but with so many restrictions for both of these airports there will never be a perfect solution. In any case rail links from anywhere, however fast are a waste of time.

[belowradar]

The first thing that North Weald would benefit from is a complete change of attitude.

The prevailing attitude appears to be "resignation" or apathy which we all know as a negative

After years of stagnation and drift with minimal investment things have fallen way behind where they should (and could) be.

It is much harder to bring an airport up to modern day standards after years of poor management. Far better to manage the asset well and improve incrementally year on year. Before we can have a TAG we need to manage what is there in a better and smarter way and the only way that is going to happen is with a more positive attitude.

Sort the attitude and the rest will follow (money etc) - I know we live in a country that is hardly world leader as far as aviation but we should remember that we used to be and we have inherited assets that we have a duty to preserve and develop for future generations. "We" are the CAA and "we" are UK aviation so if "we" don't like the way things are done around here "we" are the ones who need to do something about it.

Forget North Weald there is a much larger more pressing problem to address - how to change the prevailing culture and attitude towards GA in the UK before we no longer have any local airports with decent approaches and facilities for "US".

Gets down from soapbox and heads for the shelter !:ok:

[merlinxx]

Apathy:ugh: How can we change that, we Brits love the status quo (not the band) and don't have the bollocks to fight our corners:{ Leave it to those sphincters in BRU to supply the answrs:ugh: Get the operators involved, get BBGA involved, get Joe public involved, get the warbird owners/operators based there involved. Lobby, lobby, lobby, if ya don't, the latrine builders will be there. How the **** do you think TAG rebuilt FAB ?

Answers on a penny black stamp if you've got one:ugh:

[Daifly]

To be fair, I think most Brits like Status Quo the band too.....

(Even if none of us would admit to it...) ;)

[UV]

The first thing that North Weald would benefit from is a complete change of attitude.

The prevailing attitude appears to be "resignation" or apathy which we all know as a negative

After years of stagnation and drift with minimal investment things have fallen way behind where they should (and could) be.


You seem to forget one thing belowradar. North Weald was cited by the East of England Regional Assembly, and other bodies, in numerous reports over the last 8 or so years for the building of up to 18,000 houses. It was only last year that we managed to get them to change their mind and remove NW from the East of England Report.

Is it any wonder any organisation, including the owners, the EPPING Forest District Council, did not invest in it.

UV
Chairman, North Weald Airfield Users Group

[belowradar]

UV Fair point and you did a great job in negating the threat of housing

The council would have benefited from such large scale development

So now that the threat has lifted what is the Strategy for the future of North Weald? As Chairman of the Airfield users group you must know if there is a positive strategy for development of aviation at NW.

Are you representing all users of the airfield or just flyers ?

[Fried_Chicken]

There's already a couple of VLJ's based at North Weald in the shape of a Cessna Mustang and an Eclipse. The Mustang is pretty active and there's also a Beech90 based which is in and out quite a bit (IFR)

I can remember a few years ago there being a Challenger (think it was a CL601 variant?) that was a regular visitor to EGSX

FC

[dc9-32]

Whats the reg of the Mustang ??

[sandstone-lpl]

Mustang is N59LW

[Call Sign Maverick]

Who owns the Mustang thats based at North Weald?.
If they can do it, why cant everybody.

I too Remember North Weald having a Challenger based there a few years ago.

[belowradar]

If they can do it, why cant everybody

Because many operators must operate from a licensed airfield due to operational (AOC) and/ OR insurance requirements.

Private operations have more freedom to operate from unlicensed airfields

If you are a commercial operation you don't want to not be able to land due no instrument approach, also the hours of airport opening do not suit business clients who would like to be at a meeting by early or mid morning and return late evening with discretion to land and depart during hours of darkness if necessary.

[Call Sign Maverick]

Been told today that there is One Mustang (N59LW), 2 x Eclipse (N27 11H & N11 7EA) based at North Weald and a Challenger 601-3A that uses North Weald and Manchester (VP-CFT) and a number of Turbo Props based there.
Manybe some other companys may want to look at this.

[belowradar]

No doubt about it NW is in a great location and has easy in and out with minimum delay. I don't understand why more operators don't use as it is so close to The City.

I think (and hope) that word will spread as we approach the Olympics and the smart operators will make full use of the many benefits.

[Call Sign Maverick]

Nice to see a few more private jets using this strip since the thread started.
Is a great place to base your aircraft as its so close to London and right on the M11- (30 mins to center of London)
Lovely Mustang arrival last Friday (12th) at 16:15 local.

[the wind]

Most importantly we like N W the way it is. The variety of ships (jets, warbirds, microlights, etc), the air, and everyone knows each other. Dream place, can't be better. The runway could be refurbished though.

[chevvron]

When I drag raced there in the 80s, I remember there being huge holes in the concrete near the threshold/start line; hope this has been rectified!