HKAOA

[The Wraith]

HKAOA...
Don't get me wrong, I am a member and all that jazz...but although they make very valid points and make sense...why don't they actually DO something about all the points they raise? I mean, I can bitch about the shortcomings of CX for free....don't need to pay the AOA to do it for me...!
Do they need 110 percent membership before they can act?
:bored:

[Captain Dart]

You have a point, Mr. Wraith, but it would be we who would have to act, not 'they'.

[The Wraith]

Capt Dart...
Yeah, you are right of course....
Just feels like issues such as new FTLs and pay rise issues brought up recently etc are mentioned then forgotten about... Nothing ever seems to be won!!!
:ok:

[Five Green]

Wraith:

When is the last time you went down to tst and asked what was being done ?

Have you called emailed or in any way got involved ??

Have you ever negotiated for anything ? Been involved in strategic planning ?

110% membership while being sarcastic is a question you should be able to answer yourself. But to humour you.... some menbers good, more members better.

You want to improve things then get involved, do not sit on an anonymous forum and expect a satisfactory answer to all your career frustrations.

Peace out.

[The Wraith]

Five,
I'm just saying that nothing ever seems to happen... There were all the threats of telling the public about all the new FTL proposals etc....can't find it mentioned in any newspapers...
As for being involved, I am a member of the AOA and pay any subs required from me so I am involved. Our elected members run the AOA and we will do what they suggest... If you have a power cut at home you don't rush down to your local power station to "get involved" and help out do you? You pay your bills and follow any guidance and hope the system works, don't you? I don't answer the phone on G days and don't work them either. So in the respect that I do as is suggested and pay my dues I am involved.
:ok:

[SMOC]

Wraith,

I know what you can do and every other AOA member, is help to recruit those non members to join, when the pay negotiations come round in June or July a 90%+ membership would yield better results than the current 70%+.

The only measure of how happy people seem to be in CX is the number of members in the AOA, as said a 90%+ membership should be an indication that things are not right with the aircrew body.

[boocs]

Or join the DPA... they seem to get results ;)

b.

[CXtreme]

Or join the FAU, they keep management busy.

[The Wraith]

SMOC...You are absolutely right, and actually I do! I can't understand why anyone WOULDN'T be in the HKAOA. It is a minimal expense every month and I don't think you have the right to criticize the HKAOA unless you are at least a member and supporting them. But I do wish they would get a little more hardass with the company, it just seems like no battles are ever won. And surely it would be better to hire independent negotiators who don't have to fear company repercussions and who can fight from a position of strength...
:ok:

[Five Green]

Wraith:

My apologies if I am coming across a tad harsh. I just get a little tired of members not getting the facts on issues before posting/gossiping about them. I am also tired of hearing.."well I sent one email.." or "..I phoned and left a message..". If at first you don't succeed try try again. The AOA GC and office staff deal with hundreds of emails and phone calls, if you want an issue followed up on, then get a name of whomever can handle your issue and be proactive in your communication.

The AOA for good or bad is all we have between us and the co. The AOA is also a political entity, meaning that sometimes there are no clear winners and loosers. Usually, if that is the case, it is better than there being a clear looser, which invariably would be us the flight crew !!

The AOA is only as effective as it's volunteers, and they are only effective if they are getting good feedback from members. I for one think that all who selflessly volunteer for GC and subcommittee work, are amazing folks.

It is all too easy to sit at your computer and complain. The AOA is a democracy. You have the right to get as involved as you wish. The AOA is not the power company.

Having an outside negotiator is an interesting idea. Why don't you call or email one of the GC and discuss. Maybe you can put a motion forward that the AOA looks into hiring or consulting with a proffesional negotiator(s) in the future. I look forward to hearing back from you on their response.

Glad to hear that you are informing non AOA members of the benefits of AOA membership.

Cheers

[crewsunite]

I agree to keep this post proactive.

Thanks to GC for there time, but they need more hands.
Professional hands & brains, I don't mind paying double subs for the next few years.

To pay for the best neg team to win some deals from the co.
The synergy of a team of pilots and professional lawyers
maybe an accountant type as well. Can go along way to help us.

We have some serious deals to make and need to assemble the best team possible.

GC you read these posts. Pls get a poll up and running next week.
Many thanks everyone for your hard work, but now we need to get smarter;)

[The Wraith]

Crewsunite has hit the nail on the head and is absolutely correct.
I am not trying to bash the HKAOA here, they do a great job and deserve the utmost respect and thanks of all the aircrew, member OR otherwise. I just feel that they need to get more proactive...within legal limits of course...with their members and get tougher with the company. I can't help but feel that after the meetings end, the likes of NR et al simply snigger and smirk and go back to their Gentlemens' clubs for a good old chortle. I for one would happily see my subs doubled or even trebled if it meant that hired PROFESSIONAL negotiators were the next people NR etc met at the negotiating table. It must be tough to get down to a fight when you still need your job with the company the next day, but a hired professional would feel no such threat to himself and would be far more effective at the table.
Issues the likes of FTLs, the lack of payrises, SLS etc etc are talked about to death, but what tangible results are we actually achieving? What, for instance, was the result of that last poll that was audited by that external company? I filled out the poll and have heard nothing since.
Please would the HKAOA poll its members with regards to increased subs in return for hiring professional, external, help? And if it is popular could they actually do something about it?
Optimistically...!!!
:ok:

[BusyB]

Wraith,

Nice to hear your positive take but if you want to raise and discuss this with the GC I suggest you go to the AOA forums.

https://www.hkaoa.org

Rgds:ok:

[Tornado Ali]

I am getting fed up with people who refuse to support the AOA. The excuses given are pathetic. You are happy to piggyback of the members who contribute some of their hard earned money, and are quick to criticise. The more members, the more money available to hire the best lawyers, pay for the best press coverage, to pay for the help of any member who is victimised. When I joined, the membership was nearly 100%, and we had the best of contracts. Now, we are barely above 60%, and we have a contract that is arguably about 60% of what it was. You do the math. If you don't want to join, fine, but don't bother giving any excuses. We all know it's about the money.

ps. Wraith, although I generally agree with your comments...we wouldn't NEED to raise subs if everyone was a member and paid their dues.

[buggaluggs]

I vaguely recall the professional negotiator suggestion has been discussed here before. If I recall correctly the result was that the company had refused to even meet with said negotiators. Even though they have a hired gun (SK) on their side of the table. :ugh:

[Hellenic aviator]

Yep...
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbour/340688-why-you-should-join-aoa.html

:ugh:

[Five Green]

Yep seem to recall that the co, would refuse to negotiate with outsiders !

However what is to stop them taggin along, or listening in over the spy microphone.

Seriously Wraith, these are the kinds of things that you need to call the AOA and ask before you throw it out on this here public forum.

As Busy B says you will also get a response from the AOA forums. There are some very lively discussions currently and you sound like you have a lot to say.

Standing by to hear how your research is going......

FG

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

There are some very lively discussions currently and you sound like you have a lot to say.

Unfortunately and sadly that's what the AOA members are so good at doing. Heated discussions and debates..blah blah blah

Talk's cheap MONEY buys the whisky. And even if the AOA has a 110% membership, it would STILL NOT taken on CX management, they may just upset Nicky poo :eek:

[Five Green]

AD P :

Take it by your post you are not a member ?

You got to start somewhere. Discussion is where to start. Then if enough people feel the same as you and you keep on topic you will have your say.

If you throw your hands up in surrender then you become part of the problem.

FG

[AD POSSE AD ESSE]

Five Green:

Been there, done that.;)

But when a vote fails, only to be voted on again and again until it passes (to please the company), you have to ask yourself what's the point! :confused:

Tell you what though, I'll go on record here that the day when the AOA asks its members to strike, I'll take my re-application to TST by hand :ok:

In the meantime, I'll enjoy watching the circus for free!

[Tornado Ali]

Ad Posse = self-serving sponger

ps. you can watch the 'circus' all you like mate....just remember, you're still one of the animals all the same.

[cxlinedriver]

T Ali, you don't know ****.

It is not all about the money. The subs are actually fairly low.

It is about the complete stupidity of the AOA under Nigel and his friends. The membership was steered into a stupid go-slow which lost some good blokes their jobs and the AOA a lot of its membership.

Some of the dumb arse ideas of the past:

'Join the AOA to show the company we are strong' - wrong. It just shows the company that most are easily lead.

'Vote for industrial action to show the company we mean it, trust the AOA leadership to tell us what to do when the time is right' - wrong. Vote for industrial action when you know what it is to be AND when you are prepared to actually FOLLOW THROUGH with it. Too many voted for 'industrial action', but when it was revealed to be a go slow, too many did not follow it. Within a couple of days the company knew the real level of support the AOA had.

Guys left the AOA or did not join for VALID reasons. We need to address those reasons and get guys back in. We will never be completely united in what we want, but we need to be united in saying no to more pineapples.

So Ali, it is not about the money.

[fire wall]

cxlinedriver, bravo
:D

[mngmt mole]

CX line driver. It is you who is 'full of sh#t. No organisation is faultless. That includes the AOA. The main point remains though. If you are not a member, you are not contibuting to the ONLY organisation that has ANY chance to affect matters concerning OUR careers. Conversly, you are happy to take any incremental gain that the AOA does manage to negotiate. Go ahead and cry your crocodile tears and 'blame' the AOA, meanwhile, continue to NOT contribute anything towards a possible better outcome. Tornado was right, you are also a self serving sponger. :yuk:

[cxlinedriver]

I pay my subs. Always have.

As I have raised with various committee members over the years, the AOA needs to change its fundamental style to that of a professional body, rather than an old style union.

The first step is to get rid of JF.

[Harbour Dweller]

The first step is to get rid of JF.

It's already happening.

[goathead]

Can someone correct me if i'm wrong but don't they have a lawyer working on a lot of these labour issues we are having all of these court battles with at the moment , wasn' t someone hired on a part time basis to help out in a more professional way ( rather than committee members with individual agendas ) ?

I remember PV telling me himself we were on the way , but haven't heard a thing about her since ? :confused:

[airplaneridesrfun]

Weak. Unless you are in a cubicle in CX city, and this is part of your job then stop talking about this on pprune!! AOA has message boards.