Ooo...a Compaq. That's sure to be good.

[Loose rivets]

My old HP was beating me. Costs far too high to be worth upgrading. Today, I got a Compaq.

Go back 20 years. One of my few sales failures in Colchester wanted a Compaq. He was willing to spend 85% of his firm's budget on just having that name on his desk. I offered a much more powerful CAD workstation, with the new 21" screens, for the same price as his 386 PC. And, he had to pay SIX HUNDRED QUID for a math's co-processor. My PC today was $385 with DDR3 memory. Sexy? Not really.

"Are you sure there's a computer in that box?" The Rivetess asks. "It looks so light."

It was. About the same weight as a feather.

Open box, sit down, rest head on hands and look glum. Who the #$$#^@$ made that . . . a nine-year old in grade-school metalwork? Pop rivets abound. (sounds like a relative) ONE screw to get it apart. Sharp bendy bits to catch the unwary.

Another 230 watt PSU. No DVI. Crap graphics with an NviDia nameplate. And, an otherwise almost empty case. I want substance to my computers. A bit of weight to the machine. A carefully inserted brick will do, but not just air. What would Babbage have said? Probably treated it with total indifference. Geddit?

I didn't even plug it in. Save the tekkies a job or two when they get it back tomorrow.

[Bushfiva]

You realise Compaq is HP, right?

[Loose rivets]

Yep, strange old world. The HP beside me gives good scrap metal value, but I'm not sure that's a good reason to buy it new parts. I thought it was a good deal until I realized that it had an inadequate PSU. Tedious, that. It cost so little more for the bigger chips. Just shows how tight their profit margins are.

The guy that wanted to sell me a cheap HP, said that the Vista would give me a free upgrade to W7. That deal it seems, ended at the end of the year.

The Compaq had W7 as part of the deal, but half the memory, but DDR3...and a worse case. A counter-argument to every factor.

However, my old HP has just crashed since upgrading the memory to 2 gig.

You may recall that it was uncertain that it would take more than 1gig - so I tried it. It was fine for hours, then failed while Google-Earthing. If it does it again, I'll deem it a no-go project, and return everything back to the way is was. I have a while to take back the bits FOC.

Really, with the new AVG 8X (512) and 2 gig main memory, it's driving the new screen very well and is reasonably brisk. The Nvidia software enables me to get rid of all the issues with the white 'blooming' effect.

Frankly, I think it's better than the Mac super-screen they were showing in BestBuy today. The text on that was justa tad out of focus.

The horrible bit is paying premium prices for memory - just because it's out of date. Things used to be cheaper when they were past their sell-by date.

Two gigs, $76 plus tax. Old 2 X 512 memory has no value it seems. If the modern 'Refurbished' and end-of-line machines were as good a deal as mine was, (2004), I'd not waste the money trying to make a silk purse out of the proverbial.

[Bushfiva]

The text on that was justa tad out of focus.

I hesitate to provide information that lets you torture your computers even further, but, all things being equal, the Windows font rendering system (ClearType) places screen legibility slightly higher than faithfulness to printed output, whereas OS X's font rendering system (Quartz) places print faithfullness slightly higher than screen legibility. This is most apparent at small point sizes. Both systems can be diddled with.

[mixture]

You realise Compaq is HP, right?


No,no, no and no. :=

Ahem, sorry about the mini-rant.... :cool:

Compaq is a business division of HP as the result of a merger between Compaq and HP. But that's about all it shares with HP.

Everyone knows, if you want HP quality, you buy a box with an HP badge on it (addmittedly there are some questionable HP products, particularly in their printer range and some of their cheap servers..... but their core IT kit is generally quite good.... never had an issue with any of their desktops, for example).

Compaq is only really there to cater for the price sensitive consumer market. Hence the difference in build quality and the reason why HP use the Compaq brand name on the kit, as a differentiator.

In IT, you get what you pay for.

[Bushfiva]

At the risk of drifting the thread so early on in the proceedings, I'd like to interject a small "yes" among the "no"s: the repair manual for a notebook I've been messing with applies to HP- and Compaq-branded variants of the same machine, the main differences being cosmetic. The label on the bottom of the HP-branded item identifies it as "HP-Compaq". You may be right that the cheaper the product, the more likely it is to be Compaq-branded, but you're incorrect in saying it's a separate unit. Since 2008, the rough split is HP EliteBook at the top, HP Compaq in the middle, ProBook at the bottom. So, Compaq is now an exercise in branding and market segmentation, but is not a separate division.

[onetrack]

I've never seen a HP product that I could label as a "quality" item. I've always gone for Canon, Sony and Toshiba, and haven't been disappointed yet. I purchased a new Toshiba Satellite L300 laptop last July (on special at AU$799) and it came with Norton, Office and Vista installed, and a free upgrade to Windows 7. It's a little pearler, I couldn't be happier with it. Not too heavy (2.7kg), modest but adequate CPU power (2 Gig Dual Core), 250 GB HDD, inbuilt wireless modem, inbuilt card reader - in fact, everything you really need for everyday purposes - and no pop rivets. Made in China, of course - but what isn't nowadays? It's been a long time since I saw any computer equipment that was made in Japan.

Satellite L300/06X (http://www.cybershop.net.au/Notebooks/SatelliteL30006X.shtml)

[mixture]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/content/images/2005/05/24/jim_trott_203x152.jpg

no, no, no ..... yes ...

Interjection accepted Bushfiva... :ok: .......although probably still some scope for debate, your newly revised statement is much more like it !

Right, that's the thread drift done... :cool:

[mad_jock]

I have never liked either brand and always managed to swing things towards dell if I had an input. Buying 200 plus units it was shocking the amount of duff ones or ones you had to tinker with to get working. Compaq used to be arses about garantees as well. Where as Dell used to just send me parts but that could have just been the sales rep which I knew quiet well after 4 large Y2K rollouts.

The compaq servers were always pretty poor built as well. I don't think any of the front facia plastic doors survived more than 2 months. Its going in a rack why cover idented buttons and status lights up?

And way you get what you pay for these days I think. Laptops I now buy from Acer and my desktop that I am building will be made out of self sourced parts. Yes it will cost a bit more than buying off the shelf but at least I can pay the extra for a decent chassi and PSU which doesn't take the skin off my knuckles. And also has the resources on it that I think are important and none of this filling up the ram slots so you have to replace the whole lot if you want to upgrade.

[mixture]

Where as Dell used to just send me parts but that could have just been the sales rep which I knew quiet well after 4 large Y2K rollouts.

You said it yourself.

Dell (my own experience and from various others I know):

Average Joe (business or consumer)=
Great pre-sales (pleanty of deals to be had), Poor post-sales

Large customer =
Loyal as a dog and flexible as a contortionist.

[mad_jock]

To be fair the dells didn't fail as often as others. And when you had to attack the innards they had actually put some thought into how the case was constructed. The wires were always secured in clips which you could unhook and hook back again to you hearts content. Stuff colour coded etc.

I didn't go near Compaq after they sent the village wedgie idiot from Erskin onsite who apart from being your typical Rangers/Celtic bigoted idiot was bloody clueless. We wern't allowed to open the cases because none of us had done compaq hardware courses and all the graphics cards hadn't been tie wraped/glued into there slots so 50% of them wouldn't work.

[Loose rivets]

Well, it's turned into an interesting thread. Drift is like a good gene-pool, it opens up more possibilities for discussion.

I woke up this morning worried that my rambles might have been faaaaaar too tedious . . . a result of learning to touch-type as fast as I can talk + vino. But some of the issues are valid info for the unwary.

When running my computer company in the UK, I had a loosely formed association with an IBM dealership. I took my CAD expertise into his magnificent showrooms, and he allowed me to impress my clients in rooms as big as dance halls. It worked quite well for a time. While I was there, he tried to get a Compaq dealership. He didn't qualify. The same man that was flown to Nice in a private jet by IBM, just wasn't in the Compaq league. Well, so Compaq thought.

Oddly, my company was born by buying and selling - as second-owner, IBM over-stock. Wife and I took a deep breath, and bought a London dealer's entire last year's stock. Well, they couldn't sell them . . . or wern't allowed to discount them. Same thing really.

This was when an XT cost three thousand quid out of the showroom. When the AT arrived, the chip was just powerful enough to run the first PC based AutoCAD offerings. Roland did the rest. Halcyon days.

Anyway, I've just re-packed this piece of tinsel, and will return it later today.

Still sweating on the memory upgrade after the crash, but I did notice the microwave clock was flashing after shutting down last night. It would explain what I saw if we'd had a brown-out. Fingers crossed.

[Saab Dastard]

My experience of corporate computing leads me to rank intel-based server hardware as IBM = Compaq (now HP), then Dell.

For PCs and laptops, IBM (pre-Lenovo), Compaq (now HP), Dell. Toshiba used to be up there near the top prior to late '90s but they lost their way around 2000.

Based on price, performance, features and support.

SD

[mad_jock]

You have your graphics card and some disks and some memory.

PSU case with a decent power supply shouldn't be much.

mobo and proc you should be laughing making your own.

Maybe not an i7 i grant you but you should be able to cooble together something reasonable for the same price. Double it an you should get something rather tasty.

[bnt]

I used to work for Compaq. Then I worked for HP, who kept me on for another 5 years, after the merger completed, until I left to go to university.

I think the main point I want to make is that there's a world of difference between Consumer PCs, such as those being mentioned in this thread, and Enterprise hardware, which was my area. Enterprise is where the margins are: not just in the hardware, but in Services, and Compaq's Service organisation (formerly DEC) was one of the primary assets behind the merger.

In the consumer world, Compaq is now HP's budget brand, like Squier to Fender (guitars) or Skoda to Volkswagen (cars). They are built to a price, in a market where being $10 more expensive will cost them a sale. So, if you want premium parts ... buy the parts, and build the PC! :hmm:

[Shunter]

For desktops I'd say HP, then maybe Dell if I absolutely had to and HP were out of stock.

For servers, HP definitely (particularly for blades and virtualisation workhorses), then Sun's x86 gear which packs a lot for the money... Dell servers are, and always have been, total ****e. Perc RAID controllers should be illegal and were probably designed by someone from the data recovery industry.

For laptops I'd go Apple, then Apple, then Apple again, even if you only want to run Windows on it. The rest are little more than also-rans.

[mad_jock]

Go with the sun gear being good quality.

They really were bullet proof you could use the spark 5 keyboards to hammer nails into the wall. The newer ultras were pc keyboards and a bit crap.

Perc RAID controllers should be illegal and were probably designed by someone from the data recovery industry.

That did make me smile, never had the pleasure.

If we are going down memory lane of crap servers.....

ICL I believe there mainframes were reasonable but when they got into PC stuff ouch.

Those Fujitsu desktops trump anything which I have seen since

[mixture]

And when you had to attack the innards they had actually put some thought into how the case was constructed. The wires were always secured in clips which you could unhook and hook back again to you hearts content. Stuff colour coded etc.

Have you seen the innards of recent HPs ?

Desktops are neat and servers are almost a work of art.

HP started with the "tool-less" motto and then built upon that. Very easy to work on.

[mad_jock]

Nope sorry mate I was one of those dodgy contractors that raped companys for silly money between 1998 and 2002. Although I did do MS servers my main hardware was cisco and unix, mainly Sun but I wasn't a guru, more of an admin who knew his limits. DHCP,sendmail,proxy and all that good stuff no probs but if it came down to setting up NIS+ or sama I left that to the sandled ones. The rollouts bulids were all microsoft deploying either SMS or Novell DNS.

I could admin printer q's and files on mainframes as well but avoided it if I could.

Now apart from the stuff I play with at home the nearest I come to IT is fixing the the office network and downloading and installing the gps updates.

It was a fun 4 years but even though I earn half what I did, I much prefer sitting with a cup of tea at 20 plus thousand feet flying an aircraft.

Miss the troubleshooting though on rollouts and new installations. The life as a contractor was good fun I don't know if I would have liked being a permy way to much politics.

[Warmtoast]

Loose rivets


The guy that wanted to sell me a cheap HP, said that the Vista would give me a free upgrade to W7. That deal it seems, ended at the end of the year.

The offer is still on, check HP's site here:
Windows® 7 Upgrade Option Program from HP - Order/Check Status (http://h41112.www4.hp.com/promo/win7web/uk/en/)

Which among other things states the following:


Welcome to the Windows® 7 Upgrade Option Program from HP. This program lets you order a Windows® 7 Upgrade Kit from HP if your PC* meets the eligibility requirements. You can order your Windows® 7 Upgrade Kit at this site today and you will receive it after Windows 7 becomes publicly available October 22, 2009.

REMINDER:
February 15, 2010 – Last day to order Windows 7 Upgrade Kit for eligible systems. Systems must be purchased on or before 31 January 2010 to be eligible.
March 1, 2010 – Last day to submit proof of purchase for eligible systems.


Your PC* must be purchased between June 26, 2009 to January 31, 2010
One of the following Windows Vista versions must be factory-installed on your PC*:

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium
» Genuine Windows Vista Business» Genuine Windows Vista UltimateYour PC* must be on the Eligible Models list
» Eligible Models

[Loose rivets]

Now I'm really confused. Mind you, the URL does mention UK, and the guys in CompUSA seemed to agree that it had ended. Except the one salesman that tried to convince me otherwise of course.

Anyway, it's academic now. I've finally agreed to buy the student's home-build with all the kit for $300. Gets me some of the way to modernity*.

He's also trying to sell his car to get back to slightly cooler weather...in Finland! It was 85f here today, and it's mid-winter, so I hope he packs fluffy underwear.

*Despite the word being chosen in a lighthearted vein, I thought I'd just check the definition.

Project MUSE - Modernism/modernity -
Definitional Excursions: The Meanings of Modern/Modernity/Modernism ... Pretty Typewriters,

It's strange that when I look things up, I find answers like this. :uhoh:

[mad_jock]

A year ago today I was on Contract in southern Finland. At the beginning of an early shift it was -20 and the lowest it went was -30. But next to no wind compared to scotty land. Felt warmer than Aberdeen on a winters day which I put down to the dry air and lack of wind.

[sea oxen]

SD

For PCs and laptops, IBM

Over here, you were immune to the Curse of Wangaratta. Around the time that we were getting away from 3270s, some government incentive had inspired It's Better Manually to manufacture in the aforementioned place - whose name is as synonymous with puter excellence as the Bay Area. The power supplies, IIRC, were sourced from Sun Moon Wong - Korean for Lucas. I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

They were also pushing Token Ring, dismissing Ethernet as cowboyware. How I laughed, spending two futile weeks in KL trying to get something to run because of a dud adapter.

They are due credit for the modular, open architecture they endowed on the PC; their beautiful, iconic 'clicky' keyboard; their S/36s and 3090s, and DB2. But every time I see an IBM PC I'm a little sick in my mouth.

That said, my work IBM laptop with a Ubuntu flash boot drive instead of its native XP is transformed from Jade Goody into Kathryn Jenkins.

SO