ESTA - How to get into the USA

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Today's Torygraph [Travel Supplement] highlights the fact that pax now absolutely need to file for their Visa Waiver on-line 72 hours before flying into the USA.

Clicky-Linky-Thing (https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.html?_flowExecutionKey=_c763B594B-10E9-1F16-53F0-8C668AEECB4E_k184024A1-35A1-5C2B-09FC-17CDC76B09F9)

It also appears that at some stage you may be required to pay for the privilege as well. Still, perhaps preferable to someone stapling bits of green card to Her Majesty's Passport, which I always found rather distasteful.

HOWEVER, it therefore implies you can't fly to the USA unless you have a computer with an Internet connection. Anyone here in that trap? ;)

[ExXB]

Notwithstanding the ESTA, UK (and other visa waiver) citizens still must fill out that green form. My British wife was required to as recently as 28 December, last. The rocket scientist with the stapler ended up with the green stub sticking out - seeing this he warned my wife not to remove the stub - that would be a federal offense.

This despite the exact same questions were answered in the ESTA process. Perhaps they are checking that one has answered the question about membership of the communist party the same way twice.

Fingerprinting is now up to all 8 fingers, and both thumbs, however they appear only to take one photo.

Wonder if the Yanks actually feel safer now?

[Jarvy]

Its not the Visa waiver you do on line, its only the esta. As ExXB says you must still fill out you I-94W before arriving in the US.
Do the americans feel safer now. You may be surprised to know very few americans travel beyond the lower 48 and so have no idea what Homeland security do to keep them safe.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

I'm delighted to know that the green sh1t will still survive ... "Is the purpose of your journey to assassinate the President" and other such nonsense.

According to the ESTA website, the on-line filing should replace the I-95W. I frankly doubt it; wow, without a piece of paper saying you're OK we can't let you in.

Personally I don't care how many fingerprints or photos they take of a white British pensioner. If it pleases them and makes them feel secure in their Homeland, that's OK by me. I would just feel a bit more secure with something containing the word "profiling"

[TightSlot]

Air New Zealand has been selected as the carrier for a trial of the paperless immigration process into the USA. For some weeks now, ANZ customers travelling under the Visa Waiver scheme (and who therefore will have completed the ESTA process online) have not needed to complete the Green I-94W forms on entry into LAX.

Passengers with valid US Visas in their passports still need to complete a white I-94 form for arrival. All arriving passengers, including US Citizens still need to complete a Blue/White customs declaration, one per family name travelling.

Assuming that this process proves to be satisfactory to the CBP authorities, it is reasonable to expect that it will be rolled out eventually, to other airlines and flights. It is likely that, eventually, there will be a charge for each ESTA application, although since the ESTA form is valid for two years, this will not be too much of a burden (we hope).

Remember that the ESTA process is not actually an Immigration/Visa related process - it is a security relates process (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) that permits travel to the USA. Since the information provided echoes that required by the CBP on arrival, it can fortunately be used in that way.

Fingerprinting remains (Right Hand, four fingers) and what has been called a "photo" is (I believe) actually an Iris scan.

In short, although a slow process, things are getting better for many travellers to the USA.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Excellent post TightSlot, it was always my understanding that the green form would go after the ESTA was introduced.
It can not be replaced until the ESTA is mandatory, it is a lot easier for the authorities if everyone fills the green form at the moment even if they have an ESTA.

[Avman]

But what alternative is offered for people without computers?

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ Avman ... having just re-read the ESTA website and its "Help" section, it would seem that you [or a 3rd party] have to file electronically. It is, after all, an Electronic System for Travel Authorization overlaid on the Visa Waiver Program[me] and is intended to replace the Green I-94W.

The only alternative would seem to be to get a US Visa. At which point, as TightSlot noted above, you then have to complete the White I-94 form. :D

All the above does, I am sure, help prevent any increase in the USA's reported population of 11 million illegal immigrants. ;)

[raffele]

But what alternative is offered for people without computers?

There are many options:


You can go to a travel agent and ask them to do it on your behalf. They will likely charge an exorbitant fee though (STA Travel charge £20)
You can ask a friend or relative to do it on your behalf
You can ask a friend or relative if you can use their computer/internet connection to do it yourself
You can go to a public library and use one of their computers to do it on
You could do it on your work computer during a break

[dubh12000]

It also appears that at some stage you may be required to pay for the privilege as well. Still, perhaps preferable to someone stapling bits of green card to Her Majesty's Passport, which I always found rather distasteful.


Really? This, as they say, sucks.

Anyone any details on this? I can't see any info in any internet search.

[ConstantFlyer]

I've always thought the bit about 'moral turpitude' to be rather odd.

[El Grifo]

Piece of piss really (in all senses of the phrase)

Once you apply, you are given a ref number and very quickly the consent to travel (or not)

The reference number is used in susequent applications and speeds the process up.

It is pretty quick and efficient. It also free of charge.

https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.html?_flowExecutionKey=_c8CECE61C-7D83-1394-9187-9AE47BDCE6E6_k807FAA36-548A-DF24-A405-7B4EF63F0896

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

If you don't have a computer, there must be somewhere nearby where you can access one, surely !

If you have a bomb in your knickers, no passport or visa and a one way ticket then you can bypass all of this nonsense I am told :}

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Regarding charges, the Telegraph travel supplement on Saturday suggested there may be a charge in the future ... they said that the US Senate voted in Sep 09 for a charge of $10 for the process. "The EU is very critical of such a move."

Frankly, if the USA feels it's really necessary to impose such a small change to recover the cost of its own impositions, I doubt it will affect most travellers. It will just annoy them. I suspect the Admin costs of handling it all will exceed $10 anyway, but then of course I don't run a Government so what do I know know.

Just more tedious Admin to be done by some clerk in an office in the USA, who will fail to note my middle name is Bin Laden. :)

[MG23]

Regarding charges, the Telegraph travel supplement on Saturday suggested there may be a charge in the future ... they said that the US Senate voted in Sep 09 for a charge of $10 for the process. "The EU is very critical of such a move."

The best part is the justification given in the Telegraph article: "US authorities maintain that the legislation aims to provide funds to strengthen the image of the US abroad and reverse the decline in overseas visitors in recent years."

So they're going to encourage people to visit America by imposing more stupid rules, treating everyone like a potential terrorist, fingerprinting them like common criminals, and charging them for the priviledge. There's your tax dollars at work.

Sadly I have to go to America on business soon, otherwise I've avoided the place for years since they clearly don't any foreigners going there.

[TightSlot]

But surely... That isn't the case? With the move to ESTA and paperless immigration, things have just got (or are in the process of getting) better and easier? Most people will now have one less piece of paperwork to complete, given the two year validity of the ESTA form.

The fingerprinting has been going on for some years now - it's nothing new, neither is the Iris scan. Frankly, both make sense to me, and take up very little time at the immigration desk. Personally, I would have no concerns at all if the UK were to impose a similar requirement.

People are not treated like terrorists - really, they're just not. That is an emotive dinner-party bon-mot, rather than an accurate assessment. Could their attitude and manners be improved? Undoubtedly. But that's not the same thing at all.

As to charging - coming from a country where the upcoming tax rises on aviation tickets for a family long-haul trip are enough to buy a respectable computer, I don't feel that we can comment. Many countries impose charges on visitors - the price is often concealed in a welter of 'other' charges invisible to the purchased.

Before you all start - I hold no brief for US CBP - they are what they are, and that is just how it is: I'd prefer it if they were better, but have no say as I'm not a citizen. I do think, however, that some small credit should be allowed for an apparent improvement in the system, most especially when rock-throwing UK passport holders are living in a very large glass house.

[TheTiresome1]

I agree with TightSlot completely. I travel to the USA through Dulles a couple of times a year, and in general terms they have improved enormously over the last 5 years.

The ESTA system should obviate the time-consuming green card stapling [I'm bemused as to why Visa holders still need the white I-94, but that's a slightly different story]. Fingerprints and iris scan only take a couple of moments. And the CBP troops have improved their customer-relationship skills enormously. On the last occasion the guy was charm personified, whereas the woman at LHR on return didn't even bother to grunt or look at me when I said "Good Morning".

They still have trouble managing the queues that feed a dozen or more immigration desks, though ;)

[All Ahead Full]

Well I filled out the ESTA form on line for free back in October, and was not asked for any proof of this when I travelled back in October from LHR to SFO.

Did the same trip yesterday, and just filled the forms out on the plane as normal.

As immigration, just went through the normal stuff with finger prints of four fingers on one hand, and the usual picture taken, so nothing appears to have changed really.

The only new thing is all the extra checks before you get on the place at LHR, where they will double check your carry on bag at the gate, and get you a pat down, which is delaying all US bound flights by at least 30 minutes, although in my case it has nearly 1 1/2, but that's a different story.

[radeng]

I've just redone it - it told me that my previous authorisation had expired! I hadn't realised it had been going so long. But no problems. It does puzzle me why it asks what flight you are going to use, but not the date.

[El Grifo]

Damn, No one ever advised that the original reference number would expire.

How long ago did you apply for your first one radeng ?

[raffele]

Damn, No one ever advised that the original reference number would expire.

ESTA has a 2 year lifespan, ie. you need to reapply every 2 years

[El Grifo]

Thanks for that raffele.

If you apply prior to expiry do you still have to fill in all of the data do you know ?

[wowzz]

I have no problem in principle with giving details like passport number, place of birth etc, but what exactly is the point of the questions such as - Have you ever been a Nazi? [or words to that effect]. Also, why do they want to know where you will be staying for the first night?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

The way the security services work, l think it is obvious.
If you have not got somewhere to stay for the first night, it is obvious that you plan to meet your maker, maybe before you land, so they don't want you travelling.:rolleyes:

[ExXB]

I've always thought the bit about 'moral turpitude' to be rather odd.Well according to Wikipedia it's:

Moral turpitude is a legal concept in the United States that refers to "conduct that is considered contrary to community standards of justice, honesty or good morals."

The concept of moral turpitude escapes precise definition but has been described as an "act of baseness, vileness or depravity in the private and social duties which a man owes to his fellowmen, or to society in general, contrary to the accepted and customary rule of right and duty between man and man." Until recent times, a man engaged in homosexual behavior was considered engaging 'criminal behavior involving moral turpitude'. The classification of a crime or other conduct as constituting moral turpitude has significance in several areas of law. First, prior conviction of a crime of moral turpitude (or in some jurisdictions, moral turpitude conduct, even without a conviction) is considered to have a bearing on the honesty of a witness and may be used for purposes of witness impeachment. Second, moral turpitude offenses may be grounds to deny or revoke a professional license such as a teaching credential, license to practice law, or other licensed profession. Third, it is of great importance for immigration purposes, as only those offenses which are defined as involving moral turpitude are considered bars to immigration into the U.S.

So if you've been disbarred or defrocked you can't immigrate - but what does this have to do with visiting the U.S. under the Visa waiver scheme?:rolleyes:
I also wonder how many people answer that question having no idea what they are answering?

Edited to add the link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude). I note that adultery is on the list ... do they really care?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Good Job that at least two ex Presidents of the USA, did not have to fill the forms in then.:ok:

[Two-Tone-Blue]

The way the security services work, l think it is obvious.
If you have not got somewhere to stay for the first night, it is obvious that you plan to meet your maker, maybe before you land, so they don't want you travelling.
So Al-Baldrick fails at the first hurdle?

I know the US guys are belatedly trying to gets their corporate ducks in something resembling a straight line, but it's hardly going to challenge a terrorist to pick a random "first night" address from an on-line phone book, is it? The Agent at immigration might ask [nobody ever bothered whether I named the hotel or just gave the street number]. Or is there going to be a CBP Agent at the doorstep to ensure the pax actually arrives?

Sorry, it's a wee bit of "gesture security" in my book, but it's probably better than what's done in UK.

[raffele]

If you apply prior to expiry do you still have to fill in all of the data do you know ?

When you apply, you must provide the following information:


Name as on passport
Date of Birth
Citizenship
Nationality
Passport number
Passport expiry
Answers to the questions


You do not need to add flight information or first night address until you actually want to travel.

Also bear in mind that if your passport expires in 8 months, your ESTA is only valid for 8 months. The lifespan of each application is 2 years or the remaining validity on your passport, whichever is less

[radeng]

Griffo,

must have been more than two years ago that I applied. Didn't think it was that long - time flies as you get older.

There used to be a question (back before the days of visa waiver) something along the lines of 'Have you ever committed acts of sabotage?'
I had a boss who truthfully answered (in about 1965) 'Yes'. As a British Army Liaison Officer to Tito's guerillas in German occupied Yugoslavia in 1944, he was expected to! It took a little while for his visa to come through while they checked up on him................There was also supposedly a question about intending to overthrow by force the government of the US. Gilbert Harding was reputed to have put 'sole purpose of visit', and they never noticed.

[El Grifo]

Thanks raff, so it is no real biggie then. I have to transit through soon and my ESTA is probably only 15 months old and used thrice.

Hats off to time flies faster radeng. Mind you the quality of it's passing improves :ok:

Nice one on the Visa question responses :}

Yabba dabba doo !

[ahwalk01]

I do the ESTA for each UStrip, never mind the 2 years, just to be sure - I've not seen an expiration date and you know what security officers can be like. Though if they are to charge, then i'll be sure to do it once every 2 years. (to visit anywhere on any airline, as may times as you like?).

Otherwise for training I'm on a visa, which is just about the same amount of 'fun'.

Trouble is I did a daytrip to Washington DC one time and gave the address of where I'd be during the day - I won't do that again, they seem not to be able to understand that people can do that and just get on the next plane back...

Alex.

[Lou Scannon]

Was it not the late, great, Peter Ustinov who, when completing his application form replied to the question: "Is it your intention to overthrow the legally elected government of the United States?"

Always wrote: "Sole purpose of visit".

...and was never questioned.

[radeng]

Last Saturday (Feb 27 or thereabouts) Mrs radeng gets to Heathrow. According to her checks on the web, her ESTA was valid. BA were informed that it wasn't.........BA check in staff called a supervisor, he and another BA lady who hadn't dealt with such a problem before, and so was learning, helped Mrs Radeng do the ESTA application then and there, and she caught her flight with no problems.

Althlough the crap travel agent from her work hadn't really allowed enough time for transfer at ORD and she made it with 3 minutes to spare.....Then on the way back today, having checked in on UA for a flight to ORD, it gave her a seat on the BA296 for tonight and the system wouldn't let her change it. Not even through the Exec Club! I will find out tomorrow if the check in staff at ORD could sort it. BA's computer systems do seem to have more than their fair share of troubles and crappiness: maybe it's an integral part of their corporate 'p*ss off the employees' programme.