Armed forces 'facing massive cuts'

[NutLoose]

:ugh:Last man in please turn the lights out................ beggars belief, you are at war and you are looking at more cuts......:mad::mad:


Budget cuts could see the strength of the armed forces slashed by a fifth over the coming years, a report has warned.
The number of trained military personnel is set to drop from 175,000 to fewer than 142,000 by 2016, according to analysis for the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI).
The dire predictions emerged as defence minister Bill Rammell delivers a keynote speech on the future of the armed forces, including details of spending priorities.
The report, by defence expert Professor Malcolm Chalmers, insisted that efficiency savings "will not be enough" to put Britain's military "on a sustainable footing".
It said that even being "cautiously optimistic", intense pressure on the Government's finances due to the recession meant that the Ministry of Defence budget was likely to fall by 11% in real terms by 2016-17.
A much deeper reduction of some 15% over the next three years "cannot be ruled out", Prof Chalmers added.
The problem will be made worse because the costs of employing troops and civilian personnel have been rising in real terms, as has the cost of procuring and running equipment.
"In addition to the likelihood of significant real reductions in the available budget, defence planners need to take account of continuing growth in the unit costs of defence capabilities.
"The combination of these two trends means that the next six years are likely to see a reduction of around 20% in numbers of service personnel, and a commensurate reduction in numerical military capabilities (major vessels, aircraft and ground formations)."
An MoD spokesman said: "Like all departments, the Ministry of Defence is facing challenging financial circumstances...The Chancellor has already said not a penny will be cut from the defence budget next year but it is not possible to give a meaningful assessment beyond 2010/11 as future spending plans have not yet been set."


Armed forces 'facing massive cuts' - MSN News - MSN UK (http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=151716763)

[Jabba_TG12]

When is someone in a position of seniority going to show some b*lls, some real leadership and stand up and say "we cannot do this anymore"??

[barnstormer1968]

An MoD spokesman said: "Like all departments, the Ministry of Defence is facing challenging financial circumstances...

I may be a bit thick, but are the financial challenges made just a tad worse by constantly being sent to various wars?

I don't seem to remember 'all departments' having this challenge. Is it just me, or is it obvious that if we were not constantly overseas, then we would be saving some money, and numbers would not need to be cut?

[Gainesy]

Its quoted that the Treasury pays the war expenses but I'd like to see a breakdown. Do they just pay for bullets and beans and some extra fuel or the whole shebang?

[Madbob]

Doesn't this government understand anything about priorities?

By all means reduce the size of the armed forces in times of peace and stability but when the reverse is true of the world today this is complete madness.:ugh:

It was this government's foreign policy that got us into these recent wars in the first place. I just wonder what contingency planning exists for any future conflict, the simple answer is that even a minor flare-up of the terrorism previously seen in NI that required troops to support the civil powers would push us over the edge.....

This government's record of mis-management of practically everything a central government ought to be responsible for seems to know no bounds....:mad:.

MB

[Co-Captain]

How else can the government afford £52.5 chinooks??! :ugh:

[Caspian237]

This report is by the Royal United Services Institute, an independent think tank. That is to to say, it is not an official government announcement. Perhaps we should delay our head banging until more is known?

Besides, as a MoD spokesman freely admits :...


"not a penny will be cut from the defence budget next year but it is not possible to give a meaningful assessment beyond 2010/11 as future spending plans have not yet been set."


I'm quite sure that in this time scale "this government" will have become "that government" and then we'll see if there are any holy saviours of the armed forces in the blue corner.

[themightyimp]

Methinks I jumped ship at the right time..............

[Orange Poodle]

First job of the Govt - security of the nation.

Seems to have got lost somewhere.

So we will possibly be left with a strategic nuclear deterrent and some armed police..........

OP

[Doctor Cruces]

Sorry OP. Whilst I agree with you in principle, in fact the first priority of any government throughout the world is security of thier own pay, pensions, expenses, perks and conditions of employment etc.

All else comes after that.

:ok::)

Doc C

[Nomorefreetime]

I bet the Fire Brigade's Unions are looking at this with interest.

'Hmm....Not enough service men to cover us if we go on strike'

[whowhenwhy]

Cut's are understandable given the economic climate. The question is whether the new SDR will deliver a realistic reduction in UK PLC's global ambition as a "force for good." Stop spending on capabilities and force sizes that we can't afford. It'll be a very sad day, but it's been inevitable since Adolph thought "I wonder where I can invade today."

[formertonkaplum]

NOMOREFREETIME: Firemen..... Don't get me started on those Lazy Basta*ds !!

The cuts that are coming, we all know they are and will be badly managed once again. This Un-Elected Prime (incorrectly titled) Minister from skirt wearing land up North has and will do nothing to help us.... Ever.

We don't win votes; so lets not assume the others are going to be our saviours either, but they might just have a clue about England and not the colonies; for it is the outposts that get the loony Labour facade into town.

The NHS can litterally save Billions. Here is 2 options that would save Billions in the first year.
i) Get rid of half the bearucratic management that clogs everything they do.
ii) Stop wasting money on Operations for people who are clearly 'dodging coffins' as it is. How much, for instance does a hip replacement operation cost?? For that 85 Year Old to live another 6 Months / year. Is that a justifiable spend ?

Education.... There is another area that is now battered with bearucrats and assesors.... Let all departments get back to basics.

The Military is no Angel service in all this. Our Senior masters have for years feathered there own nests and created post after post for Air ranks etc.
i) Why are there more Air Ranks now than at any time during WW2, when the RAF strength was in excess of a Million ?
ii) Why are there more Engineering Officers than Aircraft ?
iii) Why are there over 400 Group Captains.... How many groups (sorry, Stations as the rank balance has slipped one position), Stations have we got left?

Cut these Desk bound, Buzz word creating simpletons and we would have some money to go out and do what we do.....

Right, I'm off down south..... If they have managed to provide a Plane to get me there. Movers in MPA..... INCOMING..... I haven't forgotten your lack of ability in anything other than the skill of PR regards your own self importance !!

[frodo_monkey]

Armed forces 'facing massive cuts'

Missing an 'n' there surely...

[Orange Poodle]

Sorry OP. Whilst I agree with you in principle, in fact the first priority of any government throughout the world is security of thier own pay, pensions, expenses, perks and conditions of employment etc.

All else comes after that.

:ok::)

Doc C

By either measure this bunch is failing Doc C

OP

[SL Hardly-Worthitt]

Armed forces 'facing massive cuts'

Missing an 'n' there surely...

.....sometimes it just takes 1 single post to brighten an otherwise very sh1tty day! :D:D

......made me spill my coffee 'though! :)

TVM to f_m, H-W

[cazatou]

It is 45 years since I signed on the dotted line in January 1965 and became an Officer Cadet at South Cerney. RAF Manpower then was 132,000 - today it is 44,000 and falling by 5 persons every day on average.

Where are they going to get the personnel to man the "Green Godesss" vehicles the next time the firemen go on strike? (Experience shows that it is not a question of "IF" the firemen go on strike!!)

[Flarkey]

What 'green goddesses' are you talking about? The MoD sold them all a few years ago to save money on the maintenance!! :ugh:

[[email protected]]

Good luck with the journey formertonkaplum.

As for wasting money, MPA is one of the biggest wastes of resources in the defence budget - £1 million a day is the estimate!!

[Krueger Flap]

formertonkaplum:

Good rant - do you feel better for getting that off your chest? Unfortunately you seem to have falling into the 'stereotypical rant' trap. Do you have first hand knowledge of those in NHS management, RAF Air Ranks or Engineering Officers? Probably not, but hey, they're easy targets aren't they.

Speaking from a position of some authority, only one EngO per ac would be pushing efficiency measures totally over the edge. Sure there are always goign to be those in more worthwhile jobs than others, but in case you weren't aware, engineering officers do more than just look after the ac and lead those that maintain them. Perhaps you didn't ever take the time to travel further than the Sqn or Mess bar whilst you were still flying...

I know I shouldn't have bitten but ignorance in this forum just winds me up!

[cazatou]

Flarkey

Gordon is going to hire them back from Nigeria 'cos they have painted the vehicles "Fire Engine Red".

[grandfer]

Could be a bit of confusion there for the Brown one if he wants "Green" Goddesses & now some wally has now painted them "Red", still there are plenty in the dole queues who can hold a paint brush !:ok:

[vecvechookattack]

Many will assume that Britain should fight to maintain its position in the international pecking order, but that ignores an alternative approach. Instead of struggling to project power abroad, we should focus on pursuing fairness at home. This means prioritising spending on education, health and anti-poverty measures.

In the post-recession world, this sceptred isle will be forced to become a more pragmatic and modest nation. The £20bn renewal of Trident, little more than a national virility symbol, must be cancelled. Military intervention abroad, humanitarian or otherwise, will become increasingly unthinkable.. ...............

[Pontius Navigator]

Gainsey, the Treasury only pays the insurance policy excess. The MOD remains responsible for the premium. In other words, everything that you would normally spend the cash on is not refunded. So Treasury would argue that extra Chinnies are not part of the war costs, neither is training of crews, use of fuel etc.

The MOD, OTOH, would counter that these are all extras!

That make sense?

[minigundiplomat]

there are plenty in the dole queues who can hold a paint brush !


Lets have some regime change, and let them hold a hose or a ladder if the firemen want to go on strike again.

[Grimweasel]

So, here we are at war in Afghan with a UK Military that's on it's knees, we are facing serious capability gaps (hmm, think Maritime recce etc); Defence budget of £35ish Bn per annum and just how much did we bail out those greedy risk taking tossers in the city for??? £800Bn odd??

Why the UK populous has idly sat by and let Bn's of our money be given back to banks for them to carry on as normal is beyond me??

Why did the markets rally this year? QE provided by the BoE pumped £200Bn odd of 'free' money into the economy. That money has been greedily swallowed up by the banks and pumped into the stock market. All the bankers annual bonus payments are directly linked to the performance of the indices (FTSE etc) so they had a vested interest to pump money into that vehicle knowing they'd receive a slice of the performance in their own bonus payments come the year's end???

Surely this is a massive 'insider-deal' for personal gain on the part of these idiots all subsidized by the tax payer??

So, while they all buy their new Aston's and Cotswold houses in the next few months I hope they spare a thought for the very people that are defending their freedom in far away lands who give them THEIR freedom for them to rob us blind and ensure we live in poverty for generations.

Cheers (not!):ugh::D

[Saintsman]

The country will only wake up when a Falklands type incident occurs and we will be unable to take it back.

Or you never know, third time lucky for Germany......

[Wiley]

The country will only wake up when a Falklands type incident occurs and we will be unable to take it back.The way things are going, in five years from now, that "Falklands type incident" could be the Isle of Man.

[Ali Barber]

Don't worry Grimweasel, come the revolution.......... Do you want to be a pusher or an oiler?

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Is it just me, or is it perverse that we are rushing to spend money and effort on helping Haiti...

...yet the rescuers and equipment are stuck at Gatwick because we don't have enough money to spend on keeping our major airports operational when a few inches of snow fall?

And don't get me started on our soldiers having inadequate equipment, living in rat-infested barracks and mouldy quarters etc etc...

[RumPunch]

Well as bad as it seems Al Quieda have near but won a part of there war now against the west and the UK. The UK forces have now been reduced so much now you have to wonder if Gordon Brown is actually working for them.

Sad times ahead but Labour dont care much they are making things as difficult as possible for a new government to now come in and make a difference , most people in the UK are too stupid to see this.
Call me cynical but Im fed up ranting all the time about our military and our livelyhood being destroyed, let the Russians attack and take us over. I for one think it will be good.

Im removing myself from the soap box now :ugh:

[drustsonoferp]

Formertonkaplum:

Brilliant. Using your gifted insight perhaps we can bring the country back from the brink. Have you considered passing on your master stroke to your local MP, or perhaps a major daily newspaper?

[grandfer]

Don't forget , Gordon's still got to try and recoup the money for the typical over the top "panic buying" of 50-odd million doses of Swine Flue vaccine that some brilliant drug company rep. persuaded them to buy that nobody wants . Pity a similar rep. couldn't have persuade them to buy our Forces some decent equipment instead !

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Modern Elmo]

Is it just me, or is it perverse that we are rushing to spend money and effort on helping Haiti...

White man's burden.

:White men's greed leaves the world in need."

-- Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

[OCCWMF]

Rum Punch, you're cynical. And bereft.