SJ30

[mutt]

Parked beside one last night, N7SJ, what a cool looking aircraft, this is the first one that i have seen, so I'm wondering how successful is this aircraft, what is the performance like? And considering the aircraft carrier style landing gear, whats it like to land?

Thanks

Mutt

[FLEXJET]

There is a flight test article from Flight :

FLIGHT TEST: Emivest SJ30 - Long-range rocket (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/10/12/333285/flight-test-emivest-sj30-long-range-rocket.html)

Morgan Freeman bought s/n 10 :
EMIVEST Aerospace (http://www.sj30jet.com/news9-details.php)

The actor looks pretty busy:
FlightAware > N30GZ (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N30GZ)

[ab33t]

It used to be the fastest Corporate jet out there and very rugged construction

[OFBSLF]

How many have they delivered? Half a dozen?

[lpokijuhyt]

What's the cruising mach, range, MTOW, etc, etc.?

[HyFlyer]

Range 2,500nm
Speed Mach 0.83
Ceiling: FL490

All incredible numbers for a LIGHT JET, costing in the $7.5 mil range.:D

But there's more....

Sea level cabin at FL410 and only 1,800ft at FL490...........for a Delta p of 12psi.... YUP............eat your heart out G650 drivers....:p


It's not huge, 'bijoux' is appropriate............but it is comfortable.

4 pax in the rear, and seats can berth for 2 pax

5th pax on mid cabin belted lav.....and the lav has full closing hard doors, not curtains. As this is a LONG range light jet, crew thus has access to lav without disturbing pax.

AND............

Full single pilot certified. So can put 6th pax (often owner-pilot) on RH seat in cockpit.


All the usual gadgets and things are available standard or option:
Satcom
HF (needed for world travel)
dual FMS or coupled Garmin
Mode S with diversity
Airshow


Considering the aircraft type also holds the world record from Texas to London for under 20,000lb class (and that achieved with only one stop to refuel in Goose Bay). This done before the HF was installed and thus requiring a detour on the fastest route over the Atlantic, so on another occasion they should be able to shave 30 mins off this record.

The SJ30 Jet Crosses the Atlantic Ocean Setting Several Speed and Range Records. | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com (http://www.allbusiness.com/travel-hospitality-tourism/destinations/5424539-1.html)

This aircraft has a LOT to offer. Certainly on the traditional evaluation of business aircraft rationale.

ECO - Well fuel burns are frugal as well......in cruise you'll see 700-800lbs total / hour rates......typical around M0.8 so turbo-prop fuel burn at real jet speeds.

Uses nothing 'high-tech' to achieve these numbers either...so you don't become a technology guinea pig...

Williams engines, Honeywell avionics (OK the avionics could do with a re-refresh now, but still highly functional - Primus Epic based) an EFB can be offered. Essentially metal construction (very little composite) the traditional proven way. They also included full leading edge slats and fowler flaps to a 30degree sweep razor thin wing.......so fast speed as well as low approach speed handling is just fine. It's all just done well.


There you go.........

[FlyTCI]

Those must be some pretty and nice smelling flaps ;).

Great looking airplane with some real nice capabilities. Likely to be a good seller :ok:.

HyFlyer, you're not SW are you?

[bizjetsurprise]

I am lucky enough to have flown the SJ30. The performance numbers published are based on the test aircraft that were used for FAA certification which were slightly less smooth or efficient than the production aircraft. On a customer aircraft I have seen TAS of 494 kts (around ISA) and have reached the overspeed warning at around M.84 in level flight at FL300. Although we have not done it, extrapolating the long range trips we have done of 2200-2400 nm, we believe that the SJ30 is capable of doing 2600 nm still air over about a 6 hour flight, if you run LRC and step climb efficiently through the levels FL410, 430, 450, 470 and last hour at 490. Obviously with IFR reserves.

Ed Swearingen has produced a nice aircraft.

[plugster]

How do passengers like it?

[bizjetsurprise]

We have had a variety of reactions from passengers. They all like the sea level cabin up to FL410 so they feel less tired after a long flight. They like the fact that the 2 "owner" seats recline to form a flat double bed. However, some passengers are expecting a larger cabin for an aircraft that has such impressive numbers, or even a stand up cabin. But in its defence I would say that the interior is roughly the same size as a CJ2 or CJ3, so its addressing a subset of the jet buyer market who can live with that size of cabin.

[hookster]

I fly for factory. Ride quality is the other thing. Over 70 lbs per sq ft of wing loading so the SJ30 flies beautifully through the air especially in turbulence.

During demos in production aircraft we see the demo speed of 494 kts all the time.

In the climb at 250/0.7 passing thru FL330 you see 410 ktas. Speed is everything.

Vref ranges from about 99 kts low and 110 high.

Easy to fly as well. He right though the avionics need some updating

[S.F.L.Y]

But in its defence I would say that the interior is roughly the same size as a CJ2 or CJ3, so its addressing a subset of the jet buyer market who can live with that size of cabin.

It's obviously the most affected segment of the industry while heavier jets or turboprops were less affected... as good as it could be this aircraft will be sharing a very much eroded market with its competitors.

[mutt]

I understand that the one that i saw is now based in Riyadh, but unfortunately it doesn't appear to move :(

What is the baggage space like?

Cheers

Mutt

[bizjetsurprise]

It has quite a large baggage area at the back with 500 lb weight limit.

Actually the SJ30 in Riyadh has moved quite a lot recently - its just that it probably gets put back in the same place by Arabasco. It has flown short trips to Jeddah, Bahrain and Dubai in the last 2 weeks.

Operating costs are pretty reasonable around here in the Middle East with jet fuel at about $2.50 a gallon (we burn about 150 gals/hr on shorter missions, 120 gal/hr in long range flights). But it does make handling charges of $900 for less than a day in Dubai or Bahrain seem expensive by comparison. Think we will use Sharjah in future, not Dubai - looks a lot more reasonable on handling and parking. Dubai charges $400/day for parking after the 4th day whether you are a B747 or a C152, and slightly lower amounts for the first 4 days.

[mutt]

Actually the SJ30 in Riyadh has moved quite a lot recently OK, I guess that you are keeping more civilized hours than me :):) I would love to have a look around it, so I hope to bump into you one of these days :)

Mutt

[bizjetsurprise]

Mutt, would be happy to show you round, just send me a private message and I will give you some Riyadh contact details.

[OFBSLF]

I fly for factory.
So then you can tell us just how many (or, make that how few) have been produced to date. 5? 10?

[bizjetsurprise]

One just delivered to Morgan Freeman last month was S/N 10

[flybypilot]

What do they cost? Pretty impressive figures. Any news on EASA certification?

FBP

[NICOOOLDUDU]

Hum, and what about the Falcon 10 guys? It can "hold" the comparison and it's 30 years older, what do you think? (well, except for the range)

[bizjetsurprise]

In answer to last 2 posts, as far as I know new price for 2011 delivery (which is next slot I am told) is around $7.25m. I understand from the factory guys that EASA completed their test flying of the SJ30 OK but left the factory with lots of actions to stress test things and do other exercises that they thought necessary for European certification that the Feds did not. We have not got a date yet out of the factory for this to be completed.

Falcon 10's are great aircraft, which seem to be much loved by most people who have flown them. Dont know if Ed Swearingen ever flew one of them, but the SJ30 does look suspiciously like one!

[Silvio Pettirossi]

I think operating costs should be considerably lower on the SJ30 compared to the Falcon 10, being a lot lighter, and having simpler systems. The cabin is also smaller on the SJ30.

[Fried_Chicken]

One just delivered to Morgan Freeman last month was S/N 10

This particular aircraft has been in Luton the last few days, what a great looking aircraft. It's got a interesting logo on the tail too.

FC

[tuna hp]

Very cool. I love when unique planes come out. Tiny cabin comfortable for 2-4, fitted in a plane with good midsize range and performance, for a very accessible price. A lot of people will probably figure that they usually fly with less than 4 passengers and that they couldn't give up that range for that price.

It was looking like Dassault was going to be doing something similar at the higher end with their next plane ("Falcon SMS"), since we learned that they requested designs for 10,000lb thrust engines on a plane where they talked about the cabin being about the size of a G250 or Challenger 300. The G250 uses only 7,500lb engines. Even the large cabin Falcon 2000 series uses only 7,000lb engines and the Falcon 900 uses 3x5,000lb engines. But this interesting program seems to have been put on hold, and they seem to be reevaluating what exactly they're trying to sell with their next plane.

G250 cabin with true 10 hour range at for a huge discount compared to the G450 and Global 5000.

[galaxy flyer]

Who would like to sit in a G250 or CL300 cabin for TEN hours? I can barely get thru 10 in a GLEX. ;) Interesting plane, though, esp. in these times.

GF

[Fosters]

N30GZ was there last weekend

[hookster]

We have 4 production aircraft delivered and more on the way. Last one was SN 010 which belongs to Morgan Freeman. They are on their second trip to Europe since delivery less than 2 months ago and have already racked up nearly 160 hrs. They have made trips all over US, South Africa, Middle East, Europe, and Canada with no maintenance issues.

They have shown the value of the SJ30 - its ability to fly the N Atlantic (St Johns to Azores or Goose to London) with no stops in between and to do it with speed. M 0.83 thru FL330, M 0.80 thru FL450, and M0.76 at FL490.

It really can be used for transoceanic flying.

And all at a sea level cabin thru FL410 thanks to a 12 psi cabin.

[hookster]

It is the logo for Morgan Freemans Blues Club. One in Clarksdale, MS and the other in Memphis. GZ is Ground Zero Blues cLUB

[mutt]

The blurb states that it comes equipped with:


3 EFIS displays
TCASII
EGPWS
Weather Radar
FMS


What does it use as its dual long range navigation systems?

Mutt

[hookster]

It comes with a single Honeywell NZ2000 FMS (w GPS) and his aircraft has an independant second GPS - a coupled Garmin 500W. Can also option for 2nd Honeywell FMS.

[Stearperson]

Have been following the development of this plane all along.
Looks like a terrific design. Have always been impressed with the 12 psi differential pressurization.
Having flow both single pilot Citations and the magnificent Falcon 10 would love to get a shot at an SJ 30.
The only dissapointment is that I thought it was suppose to have a 3000 mile range. This is a really nice number for being able to go Europe directly to the US East coast.I wonder if there are any plans for a range increase in the future?

[OlympicPen]

Beautiful aircraft, and M. Freeman's glowing comments have to be very welcome publicity. Have there been additional deliveries so far this year in the wake of this publicity?

[LGW Vulture]

No - according to my records! Good range, cabin far too small for that range however. Sorry to say, dead duck - will never be a commercial success! :ugh:

....get's ready for the flack! :uhoh:

[robbreid]

SJ30 production;

001 N30SJ destroyed in 1999 had a 'short fuselage'
002 N138BF destroyed in fatal crash 2003 'short fuselage'
003 N30SJ prototype donated to Lonestar Museum TX
004 N404SJ prototype ex N709HB
005 N50SJ first production aircraft
006 N30SJ Eminvest Dubai ex N60SJ/N901HB
007 N7SJ Hamish Harding (Eminvest Investor)
008 N200DV Deju Vu strip clubs
009 ???????
010 N30GZ Morgan Freeman

So two deliveries appear to be to themselves, and Deju Vu, and Freeman are
the first two customer aircraft.

Action Aviation - SJ30 S007 Photo (http://www.actionaviation.com/news/s007photos.htm)

[OlympicPen]

Man, no follow on deliveries after Freeman. So much for the Hollywood effect. In rereading older posts, I note Bizjetsurprise thinks next delivery slot is 2011. Where are Travolta and the other hi-rollers when the market needs them?:cool:

[johns7022]

A client of mine has/had some money down on an SJ30 three years ago...company has some serious problems...but the concept/aircraft is sound.....limited market for sure...not too many single pilot captains are going to fly over the pond by themselves...or sit in the 40s all day long...or be comfy with the speeds...it's obviously not a King Air...

That said, being an SP captain in Encores and such...Premier 1 was a good start....but the SJ30 blows everything away...can't wait to hop in one in Miami, fly the tracks, land in Paris in reasonable fashion that evening....

Williams engines are really taking over...there is an SII retrofit that makes the plane do like 2500 NM as well...400 kts...not a speed demon, but the days of single pilot over water international flights are now becoming reality.

[bizjets101]

Plane maker Emivest's assets set to be bought - San Antonio Express-News (http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/article/Plane-maker-Emivest-sassets-set-to-be-bought-1326018.php)

Metalcraft Technologies, Inc. (http://www.metalcraft.net/)

Emivest sale pending final court approval - with over 700 million dollars spent on development - the final offer for the assets is less than 5 million dollars.

The prospective buyer is in fact the company that built tail components for the SJ-30 and most like owed a lot of money - it appears the company may be purchased to sell off the assets - which would mean the end of a dream?

Don't know what happened to the Chinese bid - they are currently awaiting Government approvals for their purchase of Cirrus.

[dc9-32]

Hookster

You have a PM

[Booglebox]

It's quite cool seeing a C525 versus an SJ30 which goes roughly twice as far even though it has similar weights and the same engines. :} Cessna are getting somewhere with the CJ3/CJ4 but the SJ30 is lighter than them I think.

IMO it's a cracking aircraft - I've never been in one but I know people who fly them, and I don't understand why it hasn't sold very well. Maybe with an avionics revamp and some other little features will be the tipping point (a la Citation "Ten").

[GULF69]

There's a owner in South Africa (Or Swaziland) that has upgraded to the SJ30 from his Mustang... absolutely loves it! Beats a Lear 45 from Cape Town to Luanda by 15 min apparantly!

69

[terryb99]

there is/was several hundred orders on the books. The company simply ran out of money to buy the parts and put them together.

Too bad, nothing compares it it's class.

[theficklefinger]

Well that's not really true.

When you get an order, you get a deposit, and when you start the build, you can get progressive payments, at least that's how it should be for a start up.

Sounds to me like they just didn't have their 'you know what together'. It's too bad, the aircraft on paper, is probably the best out there, but they can't seem to build it.

Which if you know about business, makes absolutely no sense. Maybe it was the economy, maybe it's bad management.

It it was me, I would just get some investors, call up the buyers, and simply put one together, one at a time, no reason why they can't do that. No reason. The tooling, expertise, machines, etc is all there.

I'd be curious what hoops the pilots are jumping through to keep the existing planes airworthy.

[John Miller]

There's a owner in South Africa (Or Swaziland) that has upgraded to the SJ30 from his Mustang... absolutely loves it! Beats a Lear 45 from Cape Town to Luanda by 15 min apparantly!

69

I don't think so GULF69. There's been no SJ30 seen in Swazi or CT, or anywhere down there, to the best of my knowledge.

[dc9-32]

I don't think so GULF69. There's been no SJ30 seen in Swazi or CT, or anywhere down there, to the best of my knowledge.

Yes there is one. Ex demo a/c :ok:

[John Miller]

Yes there is one. Ex demo a/c

Thank you Dc932 Am all ears and eyes - anyone know where it's hiding?

[bizjets101]

SJ-30 update; AOPA Online: New Emivest owner moving assets to Utah (http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2011/110413new_emivest_owner_moving_assets_to_utah.html)

Coltish Aircraft Pty recently sold their Mustang ZS-CTF (now N510J) I believe was based at Rand??

South African based SJ-30 is N7SJ which is the one that was owned by Hamish Harding owner of Action Aviation - which was to be Emivest's largest distributor of SJ-30's - they ordered 159 SJ-30's which they planned to re-market worldwide.

N7SJ - Private - - Planespotters.net Just Aviation (http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=146570)

[theficklefinger]

ASFAIK there are only 4-5 working SJ30s, maybe less.

I hope the get things rolling.

[HyFlyer]

Well yes....

Just maybe this plane may still yet become a production aircraft.....

Hopefully new owners will not make the mistake of talking big and doing small...nor put a plonker in control of the company...as has been the case over recent history.....

What they need to do is put one of the long time company veterans into control...and give them assistance from professionals....but bringing in an outside manager who wants to make a name for themselves has been proven NOT to work.....

I hope this time (which is the very last chance) things work out, but it is a long uphill struggle from here....

[AdamFrisch]

The prettiest jet ever. Be a shame to see her not realize her potential. Love that Swearingen swoosh tail - he did it on the SX300 as well.

My only complaint form a design point of view - she would look better with a bigger fanjet rather than the small inlet FJ44's. Like the G650 or the Citation X.
Big fans are cool.

[bizjets101]

Sanders Aeronautics - Aircraft - Swearingen SX300 (http://www.sandersaircraft.com/aircraft_sx300.asp)

I see the tail resemblance!!

[hookster]

Stay tuned for next year for more testoterone from SJ.

[LGW Vulture]

Surely to goodness they haven´t roped in another sucker to invest in this dead duck. Good grief.:rolleyes:

[Abbeville]

LGW Ugly Dicky Bird

Why is it a dead duck then?

The numbers look good?

Please enlighten me

[LGW Vulture]

Ask the previous investors if the "numbers look good"? How long has this aircraft looked good on paper? How many have been made? How many have sold? Is it so good that the rest of the manufacturing community have fallen over themselves to buy the programme.

It's biggest selling point was it's range and speed - well guess what, it sold next to zero airframes.

Need any more "enlightening"?

[Abbeville]

LGWV

I am not rattling cages here - rather I am asking a serious question.

I read an airtest on it, some time back, and the test pilot seemed to find it nice to fly ISTR.

Is it the infrastructure/factory back-up that is causing angst?

Extra speed/range on CJ power, with good looks too, would have been a selling point IMHO.

[LGW Vulture]

Take a look into its history but basically, would you want to travel over long distances with such a small cabin? The company also had only one product, it did not have a range of products, something essential really in this industry. How many owners has the programme had now? Three or four?

It might handle well and have great speed and look good but commercially speaking it is a dead duck. There, that's the third time I've said it on this thread now.

[RainingLogic]

The SJ30 is selling speed and efficiency. Smaller cabin, fuel sipping engines, 5-6 people, single pilot up front, go anywhere in the world. Nothing can touch it, and quite frankly I thought it would throw the industry on it's ear.

Your not selling this aircraft to the guy that wants to sit in a big cabin, pushing some whale through the air 50 knots slower and pay through the nose for it.

The results of my research into the business history of the company is baffling and tragic. It's almost like it was looted, or mismanaged, or intentionally blocked from being successful. It's the only aircraft manufacturer that if you had the money, put in escrow, and said 'build me a plane' they would probably figure out a way to screw it up.

Probably sounds Machiavellian but it sounds similar to cars developed with 75 mpg engines that we never see, and we wonder why.

My personal feeling is that it's production, financing, etc has been blocked, hindered by other interests, as most of what has gone on at that company has made no sense.

As far as orders go, they had thousands. It's the only company that I can think of that pretty much had the money in the bank and they still couldn't make it work.

[Silvio Pettirossi]

I always liked the sj30, its a very interesting design. Range, speed and efficiency are excellent. But avionics and engines need an update. When it was designed, the 2.300lbs fj44-2a was the biggest williams engine aviable. Now with newer, bigger fj44s, the new design owner could really improve takeoff perf. numbers and maybe even range. I really hope they can bring it into full production this time. But I am not holding my breath...

[Sydy]

Guys,
From what I heard during last nbaa, Phenom 300 nailed the competition. Even the new CJ4 is having a hard time.
Sj back into production? Very difficult to believe...
All the best,
Sydy

[G-SPOTs Lost]

There'll be few occasions when this thing does 2500 miles, what it will allow you to do is in and out of the EU avoiding MOT and the plethora of other local taxes being levied on EU fuel.

2500 range will pretty much give round trip fuel into most of the popular haunts from south of BHX.

I'm interested in it's field performance, it's good everywhere else.....

If this was launched properly you'd need a good reason to buy a CJ2+

[RainingLogic]

A Phenom is just another CJ with no range, can't touch the SJ30.

[Silvio Pettirossi]

The SJ30 Vspeeds are low but runway numbers are not quite as good as other lightjets, thats why it needs more powerfull engines IMO.

[Trim Stab]

An often overlooked advantage of extra range is flexibility in fuel planning. In a CJ2, even though the average flight is 1.5 - 2 hours, you're almost always obliged to uplift some fuel at every stop, whatever the price. Probably most flights in an SJ30 would be about the same duration, but having the range to skip expensive fuel stops would yield an appreciable saving over the life of the aircraft. Plus, there would also be the added bonus of being able to do occasional longer routes - but it would probably not be the aircraft of choice to do longer routes regularly.

I'm interested in Silvio Pettirossi's reply. The low vspeeds presumably mean landing performance is broadly comparable to (say) a CJ2. Is the take-off performance worse?

[RainingLogic]

If I was selling the Sj30, I would just ask the prospective buyer this..

'Do you want to go to Europe or Hawaii? ...sure!
'Do you want to do it cheaper then anyone else?' ...sure!
'Do you want to only have to pay one pilot?' ....sure!

A thought...when they put some Williams Engines on an Astra SPX...wow....

[I.R.PIRATE]

I can't believe the audacity of you guys.

LGW Vulture has told you THREE times already.

Cant you read?

[RainingLogic]

And who is he to argue with an actor who's SJ30 has been circumnavigating the world for a few years now and lovin it?

[mattman]

I still have a position if anybody is intrested, from way back when.

It is a sweet airplane, fast high and sexy looking, BUT and this is a big BUT.

We went donwn to San Antonio to visit the factory a few years ago (5 years to be precise), the reality hits you when you try to squeeze yourself (and I am a small guy) into the F16 sized cockpit, the pax will then squeeze themselves into the tube of a cabin. Now for a 2 hour hop we might all make it but a trans atlantic or anything over 3 hours its a little tight for me and my bladder. The potty has a great view to the back seats and try standing up in this thing to take a leak, but this is a little impossible since your the only guy at the controls at 49000 ft doing .83......

The performance figures are great on the aircraft but due to delays in production for obvious ressons the aircraft has fallen way behind the times. The avionics are now a little old for the times and there is the lack of a support system thoughout the travels of the aircraft in case of AOG.

It is one of these sad cases that should be left to the grave, but hey if there is some big buckeroos out there with nothing better to do with there billions, hey why not see where an aircraft design will lead you, hell its proabably an even draw between this and putting in a bank.

[RainingLogic]

Matt - At the end of the day we fly what the boss wants. If he wants to stand up and pee, have stripper pole in the back, so be it, it's his money.

Personally, I like range, speed, efficiency...it appeals to my sense of utility and minimalism. Kick out the useless copilot, slim down the fuselage, take out the gear you don't need..

I can't imagine sitting in an SJ30 for 5 hours is any worse then a Citation..but with the SJ30, at the end of the trip, I land in Honolulu.

[HyFlyer]

The SJ30 is marginal..;at best to Hawaii. Not saying the aircraft couldn't do it....but if you look at driftdown and oxygen etc....you are really just about going to be dry footprint and safe with 1 pilot/1 max...very light luggage ( packed lunch)....and choice of departure airports is limited to very few in Bay area/CA.

That said there are a lot making the crossing with less of a safety net than the SJ offers, and a wider wet footprint. You takes your chances.

It's a bit theoretical at present, but hopefully one day this project will be well financed, well managed (the latter being the Achilles heal to date) and updated and I am sure the aircraft will appeal to a useful minority of punters.....even now.

[RainingLogic]

Hyflyer - I took the time to get the planning and performance numbers for the SJ30.

[SwaziNev]

So now Harding fighting for his reputation. In court. Will post more details after court case.

[Booglebox]

what happened?
I take it the SJ30 won't be coming to ebace then... :sad:

[SwaziNev]

It might but not with Harding. New owns of the SJ30 might do something not sure.

[stolman]

Yes Ed S. certainly designed some fine aircraft. I fly one of his IIIC models and for single pilot private ops it's hard to beat. Say, did the nose-wheel steering system make onto the SJ30?

[Ian Corrigible]

Sad news...

Famed aviation entrepreneur, legend, and SJ30 designer Ed Swearingen passes away (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ainalerts/2014-05-20/aviation-world-loses-legendary-designer-ed-swearingen)

I/C