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cpt
11th Mar 2007, 21:22
Still this old story of flight and duty time again: does somebody can tell me where to find these ICAO limitations ?
Thanks.

cptpinpin
12th Mar 2007, 19:24
DIVISION II - STANDARDS FOR FLIGHT TIME AND FLIGHT DUTY TIME LIMITATIONS AND REST PERIODS
720.15 Flight Time Limitations
The standards for increasing the flight time limitations for flight crew members are:
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service or heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in any aircraft shall not exceed:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;
(b) 24 hours: 14 hours (15 hours of service with 8 hour break);
(c) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(d) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days (requires three 24hour breaks);
(e) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(f) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days (requires thirteen 24hour breaks);
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(g) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(h) the accumulated 30-consecutive day, 42-consecutive day and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(i) 1200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(2) For heli-logging operations, the maximum flight time in all flying shall not exceed:
(a) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days for single-pilot helicopters;
(b) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days for helicopters operated by two pilots; and
(c) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.
720.16 Flight Duty Time Limitations and Rest Periods
The standards for increasing the flight duty time limits for flight crew members are:
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service, or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service or heli-logging, for the 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days referred to in subsection 720.15(1), the maximum flight duty time may be extended to 15 consecutive hours if:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) the minimum rest period is increased by 1 hour; or
(b) the maximum flight time does not exceed 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours.
(2) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 4 or 5 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations using an aircraft other than a helicopter, and the flight crew is augmented by the addition of at least one fully qualified flight crew member, flight duty time may be extended to 15 consecutive hours if:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) the additional flight crew member occupies a flight deck observer seat during take-offs and landings unless the observer seat is required by an air carrier inspector, in which case, a passenger seat must be available for the flight crew member; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(b) the subsequent minimum rest period is increased by at least 2 hours.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(3) Where a flight crew is augmented by the addition of at least one flight crew member, the division of duty and rest is balanced between the flight crew members and a flight relief facility is provided, flight duty time may be extended if:
(a) where a flight relief facility - seat is provided, the flight duty time may be extended to 17 consecutive hours, in which case the maximum flight deck duty time for any flight crew member shall be 12 hours;
(b) where a flight relief facility - bunk is provided, the flight duty time may be extended to 20 consecutive hours, in which case the maximum flight deck duty time for any flight crew member shall be 14 hours;
(c) the subsequent minimum rest period shall be at least equal to the length of the preceding flight duty time; and
(d) a maximum of 3 sectors may be completed.
(4) Where a flight crew is augmented by the addition of at least one flight crew member in accordance with subsections (2) or (3), the total flight time accumulated during the flight shall be logged by all flight crew members for the purposes of calculating the maximum flight times in section 700.15 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
(amended 1998/09/01; previous version)
(5) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 of the Canadian Aviation Regulations in aerial application operations, the maximum flight duty time may be extended for a split flight duty assignment provided that:
(a) the total flight duty time shall not exceed 14 hours in 24 consecutive hours;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(b) rest periods that allow a total of at least 9 hours opportunity to sleep in 24 consecutive hours shall be taken in suitable accommodation;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(c) one of these rest periods shall allow at least 5 consecutive hours opportunity to sleep between 20:00 and 06:00 local time; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(d) the flight crew member shall receive at least 5 periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty within each 30 consecutive days.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
720.17 Unforeseen Operational Circumstances
The standards for compliance with this section are:
(1) Flight duty time and flight time limitations may be extended by up to 3 consecutive hours provided that:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) where flight duty time is extended, the subsequent minimum rest period shall be increased by an amount at least equal to the extension to the flight duty time;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(b) the pilot-in-command shall notify the air operator, in accordance with procedures outlined in the company operations manual, of the length of and the reason for the extension;
(c) the air operator shall retain the notifications until the completion of the next Department of Transport audit; and
(d) the air operator shall notify the Minister as soon as practicable.
(2) Flights shall be planned to be completed within the maximum flight time and maximum flight duty time taking into account the time necessary for pre-flight and post-flight duties, the flight or series of flights, forecast weather, turn-around times and the nature of the operation.
720.19 Requirements for Time Free from Duty
The standard for providing a number of rest periods other than as required by subsection 700.19(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations is:
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations, or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service, or heli-logging, the 24 consecutive hours 3 times within each 30 consecutive days may be replaced by:
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(a) following at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty, a flight crew member may be assigned duty for up to 42 consecutive days; and
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(b) the flight crew member shall receive at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty following any assignment that exceeds 27 consecutive days.
(amended 1999/09/01; previous version)
720.21 Flight Crew Members on Reserve
The standards for compliance with this section are:
(1) An air operator shall provide each flight crew member with an opportunity to obtain at least 8 consecutive hours sleep in any 24 consecutive hours while on reserve by one of the following methods:
(a) the air operator shall provide the flight crew member with 24 hours notice of the time of commencement and duration of the rest period. The designated rest period cannot shift more than 3 hours earlier or later than the preceding rest period, nor more than a total of 8 hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(b) the flight crew member shall be given a minimum of 10 hours notice of the assignment and shall not be assigned any duty for these 10 hours; or
(c) the air operator shall not assign the flight crew member to flight duty time and shall not interrupt the flight crew member's rest period between 22:00 and 06:00 local time.
(2) Where an air operator is unable to provide a flight crew member with a rest period required by subsection (1) and the flight crew member is notified to report for flight duty or the reporting time occurs between 22:00 and 06:00 local time:
(a) the maximum flight duty time shall be 10 consecutive hours; and
(b) the subsequent minimum rest period shall be increased by at least one-half the length of the preceding flight duty time.
720.23 Controlled Rest on the Flight Deck
The standards for compliance with this section require that the air operator's program is outlined in the company operations manual and contains the following elements:
(1) Training
Every flight crew member who participates in the controlled rest on the flight deck program shall have received training in the program as well as training in the general principles of fatigue and fatigue countermeasures.
(2) Pre-flight Activities
(a) The pilot-in-command shall determine if operational considerations allow or preclude the use of controlled rest on the flight deck based on guidelines developed by the air operator;
(b) the flight crew members' rest periods will be planned at a pre-flight briefing to enable them to anticipate and maximize the sleep opportunity and to manage their alertness. If required, this briefing can occur in flight; and
(c) the briefing shall include:
(i) the choice of rest sequence;
(ii) planned and unplanned wake-up criteria;
(iii) transfer of control procedures; and
(iv) co-ordination with the flight attendants.
(3) Pre-rest Period
Pre-rest period activities should take approximately 5 minutes and shall include:
(a) the transfer of duties;
(b) an operational briefing;
(c) completion of physiological needs;
(d) co-ordination with the flight attendants; and
(e) time for the flight crew member preparing to rest to become comfortable in the flight deck seat.
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(4) Rest Period
(a) Only one flight crew member at a time shall rest and the other flight crew member(s) shall remain alert. An alertness monitor may be considered as a back-up system;
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(b) The resting flight crew member's duties shall be completed by the non-resting flight crew member(s);
(amended 1998/03/23; previous version)
(c) All flight crew members shall remain on the flight deck throughout the rest period;
(d) Each rest period shall be limited to a maximum of 45 minutes to avoid sleep inertia when the flight crew member is awakened;
(e) Rest periods shall occur only during the cruise phase of the flight and shall be completed at least 30 minutes before planned top of descent, workload permitting; and
(f) If required, more than one sleep opportunity may be taken by the flight crew members.
(5) Post-rest Period
(a) Unless required due to an abnormal or emergency situation, at least 15 minutes without any flight duties should be provided to the awakened flight crew member to allow sufficient time to become fully awake before resuming normal duties; and
(b) an operational briefing shall be given to the awakened flight crew member.

unstable load
12th Mar 2007, 20:48
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations or with a deHavilland DHC-6 aircraft not conducting a scheduled passenger service or with a helicopter not conducting a scheduled passenger service

At risk of coming across really dense, what is so special about the DHC-6 that warrents singling out in the regs??:confused:

Hidden Agenda
13th Mar 2007, 05:27
Well I guess that that was Transport Canada’s take on Flight Time and Duty Limitations however the original post referred to ICAO.

Does ICAO have an Annex with a recommendation on this matter? I can’t recall one.

octavo
13th Mar 2007, 20:32
Pre-rest period activities should take approximately 5 minutes and shall include:
(a) the transfer of duties;
(b) an operational briefing;
(c) completion of physiological needs;
(d) co-ordination with the flight attendants; and
(e) time for the flight crew member preparing to rest to become comfortable in the flight deck seat.

"But mom, I don't have to pee!"

cpt
13th Mar 2007, 21:22
Thanks for your answers, I guess the canadian F&D time schedule seems to have been worked out to stick to local conditions (i.e in northern areas where day light varies greatly with season.
If I inquired about ICAO standarts, it's because rules on this matter are still rather vague and derivated from fixed wings ops. and sometimes irrelevant to helicopters.
In fact, I just went accross ICAO Annex 6 part 3 amended on july 17th 06 and specific to helicopters. It points out that it is to each national Authority to define this schedule and it is exactly what the canadian Authority did.
For the time beeing we are trying to comply with this very basic schedule.
100 hrs per rolling 30 days, 30 hrs a week, max 7 days in a row followed by a day rest and a 12 hrs duty period with a max of 8hrs flying (crew of 2)
For now not much about split duty or else. Hopefully experience and and common sense will help to build a more comprehensive schedule and make it approved by the national Authority.

myassisgrass
12th Jan 2010, 20:10
There are various FTDT standards in use throughout the world today. One oft quoted document is CAP 371. ICAO is strangely silent on recommended standards. I am unsure on JAR standards regarding FTDT. Are they similar to CAP 371?
Canadian standards are shockingly lax and lean heavily in favour of the operator. With an Operations Specification, operators can ask pilots to work 42 days straight without a day off. This same specification allows a maximum of 150 hours of flight time in one month, up to 60 flight hours in one week....there are no daily maximum limits on flight time. Duty days are a standard 14 hours/day.
In the former Soviet Bloc countries, maximum duty time per week is 36 hours. For offshore work, the maximum duty day is limited to a standard 10 hours/day. Maximum monthly flight hours is circa 68-100 hours dependent on the local regulations ie. Russian, Azaeri, Kazakh etc.
What are the FTDT restrictions for offshore operations in other jurisdictions?

Helinut
12th Jan 2010, 23:14
It seems to be more difficult for national agreement over this than anything else. I am not up to date with the latest EASA proposals (if any) but JAR-OPS 3 had a blank space for FDTL for many years.

Fatigue is one of those things that can sneak into all sorts of incidents and accidents. Lots of hele ops more or less include guaranteed fatigue into their shift systems - Does anyone know whether IHST are going to address this?

The EC Working Time Directive "powers that be" get ever so worked up about doctors being on call in their beds to the point where it destroys the learning process for them. We just get exempt from most of it?

Outwest
13th Jan 2010, 03:47
With an Operations Specification, operators can ask pilots to work 42 days straight without a day off.

You think that is harsh.......

The Thai DCA in its wisdom have just amended what were once reasonable FDP limits. Previously they had a daily limit that depended on your start time, variable between 10 and 12 hours daily, then a 7 day cumulative limit of 45 hours. That has been changed after lobbing by the operators to the same daily limits, but get this......NO Cumulative limits whatsoever! There is now nothing stopping you from working 10-12 hour continual duty days forever :eek:

Draconian to say the least....

oleary
13th Jan 2010, 04:52
CARs states: The standards for increasing the flight time limitations for flight crew members are:
(1) Where the flight is conducted under Subpart 2 or 3 of Part VII of the Canadian Aviation Regulations ...
=====================================================
... and furthermore ...

... if the tail boom is painted red, and it is a Thursday, and the moon is full (but not in solistice), in a month that does not contain the letter "R", and only during low tide, then ...

... for 6 non-overlapping periods ...

... fark I just got a monumental headache!:ugh:

Troglodita
13th Jan 2010, 05:11
Canadian standards are shockingly lax and lean heavily in favour of the operator. With an Operations Specification, operators can ask pilots to work 42 days straight without a day off. This same specification allows a maximum of 150 hours of flight time in one month, up to 60 flight hours in one week....there are no daily maximum limits on flight time. Duty days are a standard 14 hours/day.



Absolutely - the "Ice Road Truckers" have more restrictions than Canadian Pilots!

The range of regulations out there vary from the ridiculous to the ridiculous:ugh:

On one hand e.g. Canada you can be dead on your feet, on the other e.g. UK it takes over 2 days and nights to log one day off.

Whatever happened to common sense? Why would you go flying if you feel too tired to drive a car?

Trog

paco
13th Jan 2010, 08:23
"there are no daily maximum limits on flight time."

If you do a 15 hour day, you can't fly more than 8 hours, and the 42 days can be extended to 60 or more on a fire (though you must have 5 days off before and after any period of 27 days on duty). "6 non-overlapping periods of 30 days" means more or less 6 months straight.

Dunno why the DHC-6 - maybe they really mean bush flying, but loads of other planes are used for that. heli-logging has its own special deals, rather like pleasure flying does in UK.

It says a lot for the pilots that there aren't more fatigue-related accidents.

Phil

helimutt
13th Jan 2010, 09:50
Don't know what the fuss is all about. In a different life, I used to work 120days, no days off, and often sometimes work up to 24hrs a day if the job required it! That was often in 40degreeC temps too! The Philipinos I worked with worked up to 10-12 months, 12hrs+ a day, no days off! Then they'd go home, have a month or 2 off, then back again. :D
Pilots have it so bloody easy and all they do is complain.:E Thay all want more money and more time off. Tut Tut.

There is a small disclaimer somewhere i'm sure. Something about pilots not reporting for duty if they consider themselves unfit to fly? Wouldn't that be useful if you feel too tired to work?

FairWeatherFlyer
22nd Feb 2012, 22:30
Note, there's at least one other aviation related petition going on at the moment:

http://www.pprune.org/safety-crm-qa-emergency-response-planning/468658-tired-pilots.html

Flight safety and pilot fatigue - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/16050)

(And it used to be State Tax + City/Local Tax + Occupancy/Tourism Tax to answer that other irrelevance!)