Thomas Cook Cadet Contracts

[BA 77]

Having heard about the recent easyJet shambles (which, oddly enough, there is no mention of on their website) I'm now looking at other carriers who offer cadet programmes for CTC. The best one I've found is the Thomas Cook one but I can't find anything on salary, repayments, type-rating costs, pensions etc and was wondering if anyone knew anything about Thomas Cook cadet contracts.

Thanks, BA 77.

[Zippy Monster]

Thomas Cook used to offer a similar deal to the cadets coming out of the end of the CTC Wings Cadet course. There are other contributors to this board who will probably be able to give you more detail, but the most recent batch were given part-year contracts of (I believe) 7 months on, 5 months off - and that was after a lot of umming and ahhing over whether they'd be kept on at all.

The more pertinent question, as many will undoubtedly pile on to this thread and ask you shortly, is why are you considering throwing a large five-figure sum at an 0-fATPL scheme in the middle of one of the worst recruitment markets the industry has seen for decades.

[kwb911]

The airlines have not been pre selecting from CTC for some time so this means that when you come to the end of your training you will be in the hold pool and unable to choose which airline you want to go to (as per during the good times). In other words no point in looking into airlines that CTC supply or have supplied cadets and think you can aim for them instead of easyJet as the option is not available anymore. At the moment integrated flight training is not a good idea.

[PaulW]

So that'l be like the rest of us then, take whatever job you can get as a first job. Instead of "your offering me a shiny jet job with who? I'm very sorry I don't work for anyone you know, don't you know how much better I'm trained than all those people who have trained anywhere else" Sorry a bit Tongue in cheek, but some of the things written on here are amusing.. ie Being selective who you want to fly for when low houred and looking for a first job.
Get a job with anyone and you'll never look back, once you've got experience your ideas may change about your ideal employer, or you'll be in a much better position to get a job with Thomas Cook, or just sit it out in hope of the right scheme happening and losing several years of your life waiting instead of flying.
Good luck in your endeavours, some difficult decisions to be made, nothing right or wrong as long as your happy. It's a long long road to the first job let alone the ideal job, if that exists anymore..

[kwb911]

Paul,

Not sure if you reply was aimed at me or BA77.

My post was to advise that you are unlikely to get a job not that you should be selective especially with low hours. BA77 mentioned that the easyJet route was a shambles and indicated that he would like to apply for a Thomas cook cadetship. I only informed him that with CTC the cadets are not split into airlines and everyone is in the same hold pool and in the same mess.

When times were better easyJet used to recruit from CTC (they had a training contract exclusively with CTC for Cadets) and cadets started on a proper full time contract on completion of training which is completely different to the schemes on offer at the moment. Cadets also had the chance to go to other partner airlines if positions were available and it was their decision if they wanted to wait in the hold pool.

As everyone knows jobs are extremely limited at the moment, T&C are poor and pay to fly has unfortunately ruined the industry and a lot of pilots are out of work which is why I advised not to go integrated.

Paul, Noticed that you had edited your post while I was doing my reply so my post is not valid now but left it on for background info into the CTC scheme

[Flaperon75]

.... but in answer to your original questions BA 77, most of the answers can be found here under the Thomas Cook link:

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/operatorlist.php?reg=Europe

The CTC cadet salary is detailed on the right hand side (on top of which I believe they receive an extra £1,000 per month for CTC repayments). But note that the salary specified is for a full time permanent cadet, yet those CTC cadets offered permanent contracts at the end of last summer (and not all were) are now on a seasonal 5 months off, 7 months on contract.

[cTcPilot]

JAA ATPL Sponsorship, with F/O Job with Atlantic Airlines in Coventry.

Atlantic Airlines Cadet Pilot Flight Training Scheme | Multiflight (http://www.multiflight.com/flight-training-centre/cadet-scheme.php)

[Adios]

Thomas Cook had 6 cadets from OAA and about 20 Pay-To-Fly-150-hours FOs from an Alteon scheme that they made redundant around 1st October 2009. They allegedly will take the OAA Cadets back if/when flying picks up again in the Spring.

BMI is also sourcing pilots on Pay-To-Fly schemes and these have jumped to the head of the flight deck queue while fATPL holders from BMI's pre-recession pilot hold pool are still pushing trolleys in the back.

I think Astreus has been doing PTF for a few years with Stapleford, Air Asia does it and now EasyJet. There will be more I haven't heard about and I think it will just keep spreading as long as people will sign up to it and there's not a smoking hole forcing the regulators to step in and stop it.

[BIGBAD]

The Pay to fly guys at BMI have not strictly jumped to the head of the queue. They are not being offered a job at BMI, the company is training them and then making a little bit of cash out of it.At no point is BMI paying them

Once they've done their X number of hours line training BMI waves good bye and off they go to find a job some where else.

It is all rather distasteful since there are guys working as crew in the hold pool and there are another (potentially) 129 F/O's who will be looking for alternative employment come May.

I find it disgusting that a company I work for does this, (and as an F/O who will be redundant soon) tells me , hey it's ok we'll give you the odd extra day off when they're filling your seat, and the trainers say, hey not to worry it means I get to keep my training position while we have these guys.

Is it a profession any more ????

[sidtheesexist]

No, not while these idiots shoot themselves and the rest of us in the foot by continuing to sign up to these EXPLOITATIVE deals which do ALL of us a disservice in the short, medium and longer term.....

[Kestrel_Stu]

Thomas Cook had 6 cadets from OAA and about 20 Pay-To-Fly-150-hours FOs from an Alteon scheme that they made redundant around 1st October 2009. They allegedly will take the OAA Cadets back if/when flying picks up again in the Spring.

Hmm, a case of not letting a little white lie get in the way of a good story I think! :hmm: TCX have made no pilots redundant this year. In fact 21 cadets / temps from CTC/Alteon were offered permanent part-time (7 months on/5 months off) contracts at the end of the summer season. A large number of those not lucky enough to get a contract have already been asked to return for a further temp contract in summer 2010.

TCX has basically rewarded the dedication and good performance of 21 young guys and girls at a time when redundancy is on the cards for so many of our colleagues in the industry.

Don't get me wrong, part-year contracts and pay-to-fly schemes aren't perfect but in the current climate it is undeserving to criticise TCX for giving people a chance, particularly if some of the latest easyJet cadet contracts are anything to go by. :yuk:

Whatever your opinion, it's certainly not fair to claim anyone was made redundant, when the opposite actually occured. :=

[Afinehelmet]

@ Sidthesexist,

PTF guys are not to blame for the state of the industry. As is nearly always the case, when things go t!ts up, we always look for someone else to blame.

The reality is, those pilots who were established within the industry, should have withdrawn their services the moment these schemes started because it was always going to go one way. It is only people within this industry who can influence it. And no one did a thing.

The fATPL guys who have just finished training part with more cash to get into the RHS of a 737/319 etc. The bean counters love it. The regulators can't find a problem with it as long as standards are maintained. The guy paying for a rating gets a job. Or something resembling a job, compared to what this industry used to be like. He/she feels good cos they've achieved their dream. Mammy & Daddy love the fact their little one has become a "real" pilot. And the CEO's of the various companies out their, whose spineless pilots allowed this to happen in the first place, have a smug grin on their face when the latest figures are published. Which indicates, one half of the flight deck team is free!!

However, the old and the experienced, whine, moan and do the square root of f%ck all in trying to change things. And all the while T's & C's go down the pan.

Wake up guys, the people who have ruined the T's & C's are not the newby's. It's the established so called experienced professionals who buried their collective heads in the sand and allowed the Stelios/O'Leary's of the world to come along and rape us.

But it's always some other guy who is to blame right???

Utter b@llocks

[Dreamshiner]

Just out of interest, at what stage would the majority of PPRuNers reading this class someone as a PTFer?

1./ After £50-80k CPL/ME/IR
2./ After £20k Jet TR?
3./ After £5-£15 Buying hours on type?

We do an aspirational job, no shortage despite the downturn emerging from Gatwick with a nice shiny blue A5 wallet.

Don't agree with things at present but I can't see how it can be resolved, if I did, I'd have a temple erected and dedicated to me which all pilots could leave offering and and chant prayers to my omnipotence.

EDIT: Actually .... after posting this I remembered this is off topic from the original post. It is in effect a tangent to some of the previous posts, something that should be avoided. As a result I'll start a new thread and apologise to BA77