Ryanair/Wizz vs Easyjet

[icebreaker1]

Morning All,
Ryanair/Wizz continues landing & taking off at EGGP whilst EasyJet takes it easy &, suspends most of its flights during the icy conditions.
The reason given was "The lack of de-icing facilities" - which sparked off a debate in the local NWAN website as to who is responsible for de-icing the A/c, & why the flights should be suspended when the other carriers continued their ops.

For the record - can anyone clarify the term "The lack of de-icing facilities"

[Gary Lager]

Most airlines do not have the own ground handling staff, they contract a handling agent like ServisAir, Aviance or Menzies. De-icing may be provided by the airport, the handling agent or a third party. I don't know what the situation was in EGGP but it may be that EZY use a different handling agent then FR or Wizz, thus they experienced problems whilst others could continue to operate. It may be that de-cing policies are different (I would hope not too different, for the sake of flight safety), or that the delays which would be result from waiting for the de-cing service caused EZY to cancel rather than incur a significant delay. Hope that helps.

[ab33t]

Maybe their agents had made provision for the weather?

[lpokijuhyt]

they contract a handling agent

ya, they contract a handling service ....like they contract a First Officer

[fimbles]

Not sure what date your talking aboiut but pretty much everything has gone out from LPL over the last 2 days.

[starburstOne]

i suspect cost of de-ice for all ezy daily operations exceeds low cost fare takings! canceal n blame it on weather sounds a win win option!

[unablereqnavperf]

Satrburstone,
It is often better to be silent and be thought a fool,than to go into print and remove any doubt that existed!

easyjet will never take a chance on safety the management are well aware of the backlash, howeve rwizz and the other lot I'm not so sure about.

[zerotohero]

dont be soft! we dont risk safty in FR either,, anyone who thinks we go in guns blazin like cowboys is just kidding themselfs

we are all trained well and come from the same place gen,,, where we work is irrelevent, were just not up our arses cos we dont get a pension as BRK guys

[Leezyjet]

Not too familiar with Liverpool ops/based carriers, but I know Easyjet do have a base there.

Could it be that they have had problems because their a/c have been parked over night and thus would require de-icing in the morning, whilst the other 2 who (and I'm just assuming :} ) don't have a base there and may not require a de-ice on such short turn rounds, having been done or not even needed at their home base - therefore are able to continue their ops whilst Easy cannot ??.


:confused:

[kick the tires]

dont be soft! we dont risk safty in FR either,, anyone who thinks we go in guns blazin like cowboys is just kidding themselfs

we are all trained well

So much so that a crew fly through the LOC 4 TIMES at 290 kts and 458ft radalt whist diverted into FCO?

Yes, thats right, 290 kts at 458ft!!! Very well trained - NOT!

[zerotohero]

I really am not getting into a slagging match on here about FR crews V others, but sure there is more to that than the two lines you put,,, my mate training for his PPL could intercept a LOC in a 737 on the 2nd attempt so sure its not as cut and dry as you say, sounds good to write stuff that way though for people who have no flight training to read and go OOOOWWWWWW!!!

[lgw_warrior]

OK kickthetyres,more info please......before this becomes the standard slag FR by non-pilot-non-aviation people.

On topic though,i believe FR use Servisair for handling and de-icing at LPL,and i believe EZY use Menzies for handling and Airline Services for the de-icing.

[go around flaps15]

Some details on that post would be very much so appreciated.

[kick the tires]

go around flaps15 The report was published in this months SEPLA magazine in Spain.

Involved the crew declaring visual when they should of flown an ILS into CIA and then losing visual and subsequently diverting to FCO (I may have that the wrong way around), then manualling trying to intercept northerly ILS and achieving 458ft and 290 kts before diverting to a 3rd airfield.

An experienced Captain with, some very tragic personal problems, and a 400hr cadet on one of his first line flights.

Must of looked interesting looking ouit of the window for the pax, never mind the noise! So very close to an accident.

when i get the report back in my hand I'll paste it.

[stansdead]

Wizz will never take a chance on safety. What's more, their Captains can take whatever fuel is deemed necessary without fear of inquisition.

Just like easyJet.......?

[autobrake3]

Yup, in easyjet you carry whatever fuel you deem as necessary no questions asked. As for LPL I believe that servisair were contracted for deicing ezy a/c but have effectivly declined to fulfill their contractual obligations due to political favouritism with Ryanair. An on going saga I believe.

[Joe Pineapples]

kick the tires, individual incidents such as the one you listed do not necessarily reflect the training at the individual airline. It's very easy to dredge up incidents to smear the safety of an airline, these incidents should be learnt from rather than used for this purpose.

To prove my point:

EasyJet pilot was five times over legal alcohol limit | Business | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/jan/12/theairlineindustry.uknews)

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Merseyside | Aircraft makes emergency landing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6274877.stm)

and finally an actual report I could lay my hand on:

http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/u1950_e.pdf

"The following factors played a part in the accident:
• shortcomings in crew resource management (CRM)"

I'm guessing it "Must of looked interesting looking ouit of the window for the pax, never mind the noise! So very close to an accident."!!!!

So kick the tires....would you report for duty 5 times over the limit, fly into a thunderstorm which was painting on your radar, or declare a fuel emergency and then allow management to cover up the incident to hide some sort of fuelling issue? Would all Easyjet pilots do this? Is this how you're trained at Easyjet? Thought not, unfortuante individual incidents that do not reflect the safety or training of the airline involved.

I'm with Cmon-PullUP (http://www.pprune.org/members/295484-cmon-pullup) on this one!!!!!

[go around flaps15]

Thanks. I heard a murmour about that before. Try not to paint all FR crew with the same brush. Its not fair.

[TBSC]

Obviously EZY crew can not hit light poles while taxiing in AMS, report for duty drunk in SXF or approach the wrong airport, right?

[pabely]

As for LPL I believe that servisair were contracted for deicing ezy a/c but have effectivly declined to fulfill their contractual obligations due to political favouritism with Ryanair. An on going saga I believe.

Nor that LPL this upset that EZY basing more frames at MAN from GB takeover and outside their agreement? DSA to gain? :eek:

[kick the tires]

go around

Totally agree with your last post!

However, its just waiting to happen......

[GenesisH]

Could it be that they have had problems because their a/c have been parked over night and thus would require de-icing in the morning, whilst the other 2 who (and I'm just assuming http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif ) don't have a base there and may not require a de-ice on such short turn rounds, having been done or not even needed at their home base - therefore are able to continue their ops whilst Easy cannot ??.


i would agree with this, we had the same prob at bristol, all EZY's were night stoppers and when morning came were frozen solid and U/S along with a thomas cook and flybe where as ryanair were able to bring all ther aircraft in once the runway was clear and only needed minor de-icing during turnaround:cool: