VB Restructure

[Cactusjack]

VB are close to unveiling the retsructure in particular of Ground Services,with some surprises in store. ADL is going to become an outsourced port.

[Goat Whisperer]

that would not be good, ADL is one of our better performing ports.

[questil]

Guess that means no ADL base then

[30/30 Green Light]

Sounds like Aerocare to me! Await the restructure with bated breath.:ouch:

[7378FE]

As I have said in other posts on this forum, great things are happening with VB in 2010, but ADL is not one of them. :bored:

ADL is a backward step in my opinion, but there you go. :\

7378FE

[AN1944]

Whats the bet New Name" V Australia" ??? New Image???:confused:

[Going Boeing]

If they can get SQ to agree the best name would obviously be Virgin Australia. Wrt paint schemes, the V Oz scheme has more style to it (ie more upmarket) than the DJ scheme so I suspect that will become the standard.

[another superlame]

IS engineering in ADL also being outsourced?

[PBN]

Hot tip.................. Virgin Blue will become Virgin Australia in similar livery to VA and PB 737 will be re branded as VA.

[VBPCGUY]

Not surprised on ADL, I mean did it really warrant being not outsourced??? They only have 22 flights a day OOL, PER would handle close to that in VB flights and are both outsourced.

MEL, BNE and SYD wont change ever I wouldnt think, especially with the new Fed government rules that bring contract companies upto to the same wage as company direct employees.

[piston broke again]

I think the red jet is going to stay red for the time being. Apparently a lot of customers think the V Oz colour scheme is a LCC for QF. Be interesting to hear what comes out...

[Taggert]

Would be dissapointing to see the VB livery go, given it is what the travelling public in Australia know. I'm sure the far majority of VB's travellers have never seen the VA livery.
After all VB financially is what has more or less held the group afloat in the last few years.

[JetRacer]

Would be dissapointing to see the VB livery go

It is one of the worst liveries there is in my opinion. :yuk:

Do we really need the phone number and web address on the side still after 9 years? :ugh:

VAustralia's scheme is too Qantas looking for me, but it is an improvement on VB's.

Maybe they could use Virgin Atlantics' colour scheme, that one isn't too bad! :ok:

[neville_nobody]

If they're trying to look upmarket a new uniform would probably go a long way to helping their cause.

[On Guard]

VA scheme is the hot bet. Virgin Australia would work, but Virgin Blue is very iconic in Aus now. Renaming PB to VA - good for the AU market to bring it in line with VA/VB but not a good move for the NZ market where PB has a very good brand and is not associated so much as being Australian - Kiwis see it as their own. Virgin Australia is not the best name to fly around New Zealand in. Kind of like Air New Zealand operating in Australia. Why not the VA scheme style with Pacific Blue naming?

They will have done a lot of market research on this anyway so perhaps the NZ public don't mind too much if this is the change rumored?

Red is not the best paint scheme aesthetically BUT red sells, attracts attention and stands out of the crowd.

[Stationair8]

I am with Neville, ditch the brown uniform.

[7378FE]

Do we really need the phone number

The phone number went years ago on most aircraft except VOC, (I think) which will be heading out to grass soon anyway.

Just watch out for the 737's coming online soon in the V Australia livery, at the moment they will just be a sort of logo jet like the PB liveried aircraft operating VB domestic are, that is until the village makes an announcement. :ok:

........and those 777-200LR's, well the first rudder has been painted.

7378FE

[Sunstar320]

+1 to a Uniform change. Looks more like a bus drivers uniform than a pilots uniform, although better than what Virgin America have.

Heard about a big domestic capacity increase soon?

[Mr. Hat]

I think the uniform is fine it could do with some styling but the last thing you want is for it to look like just another pilot uniform. Caps belong to a bygone era (the war is over) and ties as well for that matter. Maybe the leather jacket could be of better quality? I'm not saying cap and jacket doesn't suit QF and CX it just isn't VB.

The last thing you want is some crazy red bars or green as I've seen overseas.

More importantly the brand is very strong. The name Virgin Blue is very recognizable it would be a shame to change or waste it. I do think though that the red should go however. Not because its not marketable or recognized but because it fades quicker than any other colour and fading means skin friction drag and an aged looking newish aircraft. On the scale of the operation they have thats got to be costing something. But what colour then? White is QF (keeps skin cool) Silver is JQ (looks great) maybe navy metallic blue with red metallic writing?

Then having a separate name for the overseas component dilutes the brand the way it is now. Why not rebrand livery and call it Virgin Blue after negotiating with SQ.

[windytown]

Some interesting ideas in the thread on DJ/VA's direction.

I think the female cabin crew uniform could be improved by adding a little finesse. The overall concept is good, but it looks like the cut and small detail was designed to a budget which was fine in the earlier LCC days, but the NWC concept needs the uniform to have a slight redesign to add a bit more style, and finesse in the finishing touches.

The current situation with four brands and three product levels is confusing from a customer perspective. It is now possible to book a return flight to Fiji from some OZ cities (eg Melbourne) and due to having different combinations of connecting flights get three different levels of in flight experience (eg Pac Blue one way with V Aust and Virgin Blue domestic the other)

I personally feel that from a branding perspective, the Virgin Blue Group's value in the Virgin brand now comes from the marketing efffort they have spent promoting their own airlines and by extension the Virgin brand in OZ rather than from association with the Branson/UK side of the brand.

I would be frustrated if I was paying a franchise fee to use someones brand but was incurring the cost of promoting the brand myself. Even more so given the restriction on using Virgin livered planes on International routes.

In addition, the international Virgin Group does not work well for them in terms of alliances eg need to form an alliance with Delta in USA while the current situation of Branson having a 20% stake in AirAsia X and their new deal with Jetstar provides some food for thought.


Given they have promoted V as a brand, I could well imagine they are keeping their options open on using V as the group brand. A good idea in case franchise fees get too big, Branson moves on etc.

Further given Aust customers like brands with a strong Aussie connection, there would be some benefit from shifting to a more Aust focused image in the Aust market. V Australia can do that in OZ.

With V Aust now flying to Fiji etc and offering an included meal and IFE on those flights, there is a major inconsistency with Pac Blue and Poly Blue.

Re Pacific Blue and Polynesian Blue, I feel the cabin's should be revised to be closer to the Aust domestic product for brand consistency. Closer doesn't mean the same, but I support the plan to the premium seats, as it helps position the carrier above Jetstar. Consistency with V Aust would mean a basic meal Trans-Tasman and this change would be a direct challenge to AirNZ and QF.


I don't feel that Pac Blue has that strong a brand in NZ that they can't change it (many NZers see it as Virgin Blue), a carefully managed name change co-ordinated with an upgrade of the trans-Tasman/South Pac product could work in their favour and position them more as a competitor to AirNZ than Jetstar.

I feel Polynesian Blue is the weakest of the brands and only adds clutter to the advertising. To me the Samoa governments interest would be best served by tying in with the stronger Virgin/V brand.

My main question is how to make the new image Asia Pacific regional, while levering off the V Australia investment in promoting the group as being as Ozzie as QF. To me calling a renamed Pac Blu/Poly Blue anything with Australia in it would be risky in NZ.

I would like to see the Virgin Blue/Pac Blue livery freshed up. Too many straight lines for my liking. V Aust does remind me off Qantas, but else ise looks more modern.

[PBN]

Windytown, I believe PB 737's are all getting Premium Economy in the first half of this year, no live to air as is only works in AU airspace.

[speed-brake]

The last I heard was that the 737's cabin's will be changed/refreshed when those new 737's with the upgraded interior arrive.

[VBPCGUY]

VON and a number of -700's carry the phone number but agree its taky just needs to be Virgin Blue and small website address somehwere else on the fusealge.

I had a feeling something was going on cabin interior wise with Heathtech hanging around and checking aircraft alot over the past six weeks, for those that dont know they are a aircraft interior company.

[Mr. Hat]

Either way windy I think this rebranding/restructure is critically important to the long term prospects of the company. They must not go cheap or rush it. I think the Virgin Blue name is strong and could hurt to lose it.

Domestic: Virgin Blue
Intl:Virgin Australia then again that sort of the looks similar to Virgin Atlantic. So maybe V Australia is the best for International. The livery does look too much like QF.

[Cool banana]

If VB does get to be renamed V Australia or Virgin Australia.
Wouldnt Pacific Blue better been renamed Virgin Pacific

[SeldomFixit]

Call then Paradise Airlines - only place you'd find that many virgins

[another superlame]

The only problem with the 737s and refreshing the interior is that there are so many different interior setups.
They all look the same but the number of different seat brands, galley and toilet manufacturers between the 737 fleet would make a cabin refresh a logistical and costly nightmare.
Even seat covers are different between every 2nd aircraft. They would be better of doing the E-jet fleet as they are all common and then have new 737s delivered with a standard interior.

[Mr. Hat]

I thought the plan was to replace the existing fleet with new ones and you'd expect it to be all one configuration right? Perhaps this is how they plan to avoid the extra cost.

[DJCCGuy]

The last I heard was that the 737's cabin's will be changed/refreshed when those new 737's with the upgraded interior arrive.


IN the last few weeks some brand new 737's have arrived but these still have the standard VB interior, minus live2air, and no Premium Economy seating - and it doesn't look like they plan to install either on these new aircraft for the time being??

Perhaps they are holding off until the new interiors are launched rather than fitting them out with the extras then just having to replace them so soon?

BG did promise another upgrade was coming to the Premium Economy seat, so perhaps an entire new seat for that class is coming - maybe the PE seat from VA?

Maybe we will just see the VA interior introduced across the group?

Either way, +1 for a new uniform! There's been some whispers it's coming for the 10 year celebrations - when most of this re-launch is supposed to be taking place!

:D

[Mr. Hat]

For the technically minded: new aircraft can it have the live2air installed inside the aircraft rather than on the roof like a spare tyre?

So with the arrival of a new aircraft and no live2air does that mean they will ditch the concept? Has it been a failure?

[Red Jet]

Live to air in Australia, requires a gyrostabilized satellite antenna - hence the car tire on the roof. In the US, this is not the case as evidenced by JetBlue etc that have the system installed without the 100 kilo T/O performance drag penalty that VB has to carry.

As to whether it makes money or not - I wouldn't have a clue. The egos at the Village are too big to ever let anyone know if it failed, but the internal goss is that the system is now it is now in the black.

My guess on the absence of LtA on the recent 738 arrivals, is that the aircraft were originally destined for PacBro, but that the domestic recovery has been quicker than expected and hence they have (temporarily) found a home in Oz before going to NZ.

[piston broke again]

Any idea when the rebranding, new aircraft acquisitions etc will be announced? Are we talking a month or two, or to coincide with 10th bday?

[SilverSleuth]

Virgin NEVER give a time line for announcements. Could be tomorrow could be 2 months. They originally said there would be major announcements at the AGM back in December only to stand silent even to their own shareholders. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

[DJCCGuy]

I wish they would hurry up and spit it out! What will the airline be called, are we going to be full service, and what new a/c are we getting and where will they be operated!?

Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if all this hype eventuates into absolutely nothing! :eek:

[1a sound asleep]

Their original agreement with Virgin for the Virgin Blue name expires on or about 31 december 2015. I don't know that it's possible to teminate the agreement early except by transferring the VBA assests to a new holding company effectively closing now the Virgin Blue name

I went through some of my shareholding papers and Under the terms of the licensing agreement, Virgin Blue is paying about 0.5 per cent of its gross sales. Virgin Blue posted a $160 million net loss for 2008/09 yet with a revenue of some $26,354,000,000 . Now as a shareholder do I still want the virgin name on my planes?

[AN Flyer]

Virgin Blue posted a $160 million net loss for 2008/09 yet with a revenue of some $26,354,000,000 . Now as a shareholder do I still want the virgin name on my planes?

Good points about paying the royalties for the Virgin name during the downturn aside - it begs the question why put any further work into a brand that places so many limitations on the airline anyway?

Anyone seen the latest billboards at airports? Some now have the V-Aus logo before the VB logo. :)

Ten years ago, Virgin Blue with it's red livery, three destinations, low cost model and it's pioneering spirit was a great idea. Since then, it's far exceeded any size SRB or BG ever envisioned it to be - becoming through sheer luck, Australia's number 2 carrier, not just a cut price alternative to the AN/QF empires.

Today, having four brands in the group is crazy. Repainting jets into colours of a subsidiary to get around the branding laws (eg - AUS-Bali in Pac Blue colours) is great short term idea, but overall a lousy long term strategy. The exec management would have to know from a customer delivery point of view, there needs to be a massive change. The whole group has grown up in the nine years since AN's demise, and the look needs to grow up too. V-Australia would be the logical new name for all the entities to re-brand to, and get around this "you cant use Virgin outside Aussie shores" restriction. Not an easy task short-term by any measure, but with fleet replacements on the way and their increased interest on the corporate market, one would think this is the way to go.

[porch monkey]

Absence of live to air on the new a/c is simple. If it's going to be fitted, it will be when they go into maintenance. Boeing will have nothing to do with fitting it on the line or as an afterthought. So, it has to be done later. Also, depending on who the actual lessor is, they may not agree to having it fitted, due to the depreciation of the airframe involved.

[Cactusjack]

AN flyer,

Good points about paying the royalties for the Virgin name during the downturn aside - it begs the question why put any further work into a brand that places so many limitations on the airline anyway?

The royalties will always be paid, downturn or not. There is no loyalty to staff, shareholders or anybody else, it's all about Executives who originally set the airline up so that there would be cash grabs from a number of sources, brand name being one of those sources. Why do you think Richard is so wealthy ? He cant lose. No matter what happens as long as the planes are flying with 'Virgin' on the aircraft, and they will, he pockets big dollars regardless of economic conditions or any other factors. Some sources tell me it is approximately 1 million per tail, per year. Around 50 mil anually in total he still picks up.

Today, having four brands in the group is crazy. Repainting jets into colours of a subsidiary to get around the branding laws (eg - AUS-Bali in Pac Blue colours) is great short term idea, but overall a lousy long term strategy. The exec management would have to know from a customer delivery point of view

Its a simple strategy that again is not aimed at benefiting shareholders, staff or anybody else, but is aimed at swelling the Executives pockets. The more offshoots, airlines etc that Virgin Blue sprouts, the more 'boards' are present for the select group of Australian Executives to sit on, and naturally each board position they hold or each 'retainer' they receive to offer 'consultative services' the more money they make for themselves.

The relaity is that quite cleverly, Virgin Blue has always been and always will be a business that was conceived and started with the sole objective to fatten the pockets of a select handful of mates. I am still amazed when I hear stories from some staff (only a small minority of blinded idiots) these days still preaching about how the airline was founded solely for the benefit of providing cheap fares for the 'ripped off and captive' Australian fare paying passenger. That is hilarious ! But then again, if staff and the public are so gullible as to believe that crock, then maybe the grubs in charge of the organisation deserve all the wealth they have miked out of the public's purse !!

[On Guard]

Not sure what the big deal is here. It is called goodwill which the Virgin name has a significant amount of.
The business was set up to make money just like most businesses are. Virgin Group is also a business and to make money charges fees for the use of its name.

I would guess that the royalty fees more than paid for themselves in the early years of Virgin. Had Virgin Blue been called Australia Blue or the like we would be looking at a different airline right now. OZ jet is a good example, it had to build its brand and suffered whereas VB just paid for an established worldwide brand.

If I was to build a new car I would sell a lot more by paying Toyota to use their name.

[neville_nobody]

Maybe we will just see the VA interior introduced across the group?

Which is actually just a copy of the Virgin America interior including the IFE!! If they get that domestically it would be pretty cool.:ok:

[DJCCGuy]

Godfrey pretty much confirmed in his interview in the current Australian Aviation about the airline moving to full service onboard...good news that we'll finally have another option for such travel in Australia!

He said: "We've got this Airline of the Future concept which will probably see the possibility of having on the same aeroplane LCC, Economy, and Premium Economy, in the definitions of what we would typically understand what is Economy on a legacy carrier"

Look forward to find out more details soon hopefully!

[gobbledock]

They just punted some more deadwood - and the SYD APM is gooooooooone.:D
MEL APM deadwood was tidied up a little some time ago,still some small issues.:D
ADL's APM deadwood got punted from the role a few years ago after his chief protector RS 'resigned' and took the money and ran. :D
Brisbane's APM deadwood was promoted into HQ a few years back and remains protected by a 'higher source' who announced his/her resignation a few months ago.Once this higher sources retires shortly to a life of champagne and sunshine,the veil of protection will be removed from the former BNE APM who will also be shown the door. :D
It seems some new Management blood in VB is finally cleaning up the crap and starting with the worst area's.:ok:
Oh yeah, the current BNE APM is moving to SYD to clean up the mess that has been left behind down there. Good luck ! Or perhaps it is another part of the process of 'cleaning house' ? :=

[Qansett]

Doesn't it mean that Virgin Blue will stop serving LCC and will become full service airline like Qantas? I HOPE SO!!

[porch monkey]

Well, If it's going to require a new contract I hope the idiots include the "overseas" option. I'm getting sick of watching it stop as we cross the coast............

[DJCCGuy]

Some more hints about what's being considered...this must be the 'full service' Economy section of the aircraft thats been rumoured...

Australia's Virgin Blue looking at three class configuration (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/01/28/337717/australias-virgin-blue-looking-at-three-class-configuration.html)

[inandout]

Bloody stupid idea , they sould go for the Business class seat as per QF domestic..

[DJCCGuy]

Bloody stupid idea , they sould go for the Business class seat as per QF domestic..


Rumour is that the existing Premium Economy seats are to be replaced with a proper Business Class like seat, 2x2 config.

[inandout]

GOOD, much better idea

[Wod]

It is their trainset and they can play with it as they wish.

BUT you can't be both fish and fowl.

QF solved this problem by offering (relatively) well defined separate brands, I fear that Virgin Purple will confuse the punters and their investors.

My background is QF, but I want strong domestic competition - it's in everyone's best interest.

[tasdevil.f27]

Surely they would be better to start a separate business airline, maybe re config the EJets & run them on the business routes like Syd - Mel runs etc.

Sounds like there will even be more empty seats at the front the the aircraft. The many sectors I travel on see the red seats normally pretty empty.

[SRM]

Ozjet tried that idea and failed.

[Goat Whisperer]

Tas, the idea of reducing frequency to appeal to business travellers is about as popular as a pork meal on El Al.

VB can (and may well) run the back half/two thirds of the cabin as a LCC/ULCC and leave the front to pay a flexibility/service premium without losing crucial frequency.

We've learned that there's no such thing as a pure business or pure leisure route. I use Mel/Syd flights (a typical "business" route) to visit friends and there are quite a few suits on Gold Coast, even Cairns flights, and they're primarily leisure flights. So we can run the same plane containing a number of configurations (as we do with a number of different fares) as often as possible.

[fritzandsauce]

There is endless possibilities with the aircraft configuration some will work and some wont. The last 5 DJ flights I have been on there has been NO one in premium economy. So if DJ domestic are making a profit dispite PremEcon being very empty why don't they remove all PremEco seats and not replace them and increase seat pitch of all the economy remaining seats and restructure as the "leg room airline"

[Weapons_Hot]

VIRGINBLUE.COM.AU on the side of the fuselage is a bloody waste of paint.
I know the airline's name; I know Google; and I know how to use this search engine.
Does Qantas have QANTAS.COM on the side of its aircraft?
Just how much spoon-feeding of the punters is necessary? :ugh:

[Goat Whisperer]

Fritz, the prem seats aren't entirely a waste of space... when not sold as 2 x PE the seats are re-configurable to 3 x normal economy so if no-one buys PE the full complement of 144 or 180 econ seats are saleable.

[Sunstar320]

VIRGINBLUE.COM.AU on the side of the fuselage is a bloody waste of paint.
What about this..:eek:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/4/9/8/1633894.jpg

[DJCCGuy]

The last 5 DJ flights I have been on there has been NO one in premium economy.


I think its quite obvious, and DJ itself has admitted, the Premium Economy product as a whole is not the best offering, which is resulting in the low take up.

Once the new product and seat is revealed as part of the cabin and service changes, I think it may change...proper 2x2 seating, proper meals/catering, curtained off area etc should see it hopefully pick up.

At the moment, to the normal passenger, its hard to differentiate between the classes, the seats look exactly the same, apart from the plastic cheap looking 'cocktail' table in the middle...people just move themselves into these seats when they're empty mid flight as they can't tell the difference - nothing premium about that.