When a pilot - moving around the World (UK) ability

[rudy.fidao]

Hi chaps,

I tend to lurk here rather than do a lot of posting, but I thought I would see if anyone here had any sort of vague answer to a question I have.

I'm at decision height - the number one thing I've always wanted to be is a pilot. I know I'd enjoy it, I pretty much love every aspect of aviation. I have a spot at Swinburne starting this year for a CPL/aviation course. I have read a lot around here and there seem to be a fair few mixed opinions on what Swinburne is like. To be honest, I would prefer just a straight flying school, but I simply cannot come up with money quickly enough for training to be finished in the next twenty years! I've done a couple of other things (worked for two years and a year of another degree) and basically, my question is this:

How easy is it, once you are a pilot, to move overseas and live? The reason I ask is that I have a lot of family in the UK and France, and one day, I know I would like to go and live in the UK, and this is quite important for me to do. In my other line of study, moving to the UK would be fairly straight-forward and it would be easy to find work.

If one was, say, five years into their career and flying Saab turbo-props or something, or later flying A320s etc, are flying jobs few and far between?

I hope this actually makes sense, and that I don't sound like a pretentious ******.

Thanks for any advice any of you can offer,
Rudy.

[Howard Hughes]

The hardest part about flying in the UK/Europe is converting the licence, this in itself can be a career! It will take 6 to 12 months minimum, unless of course you complete your training in Europe.;)

Redsnail has made many posts on this very subject over the years, I think she even has a webpage!:ok:

[Wizofoz]

I have some experience on this front!!

Correct information regarding converting to a JAR ATP. 14 exams and a skills test (flight or simulator), UNLESS you have a lot of hours and can get exemptions.

Most other places have streamlined procedures for current ICAO licence holders.

I actually hold four ATPLs (Aus, Japanese, JAR and UAE) and convertion to the Jananese and UAE were arranged and sponsored by my employers there as a condition of employment.

In short, there are Aussies flying all around the world (we are the second biggest group in Emirates behind the Brits) so if Ex-pat life is part of your ambitions, it is certainly achievable.

[eocvictim]

I thought about going the path you're talking about but it seemed so much extra work. I'd suggest thinking about moving their and taking up one of the local courses. At least worth a look in before you commit to anything here in Aus. Why do things twice just to end up over there next to a guy half your age who stated at the same time?

[biggles7374]

Learning to fly is very expensive in Europe / UK.

The fact that you can get funding here via HECS / FEE HELP is a big advantage and you should consider taking advantage of that as one of your strengths - certainly up to CPL level.

Instead of taking the CASA ATPL exams, consider doing the JAR ones instead as they are valid and considered as an equivalent to the CASA exams in Australia but the Australia ones are not valid in JAR countries.

If you did an instrument rating in Australia they this can be converted with a minimum 15 hour conversion course in a JAR Country.

A modular course up to frozen ATPL in the UK will set you back approx Au$120k plus living expenses and you will have to fund living on top of that for at least a year if you are away from home - cause remember vfr conditions are not as regular as in sunny oz.

Yes training here would mean that you would have to convert to JAR licences with all the agro that would cause but the biggest pain in the arse is the JAR ATPL's which you could study for in OZ in WA. Once the ATPL's are in the bag conversion sould only take a couple of months max.

Good Luck

[redsnail]

At the moment, the job situation in Europe is pretty grim. A few airlines have gone bust recently thus dumping a shed load of experienced pilots on the market.

Unless you have B737 command time, you'll be joining the ranks of the unemployed. If however, you are a newby with a still wet EASA CPL/IR with exams done (aka frozen ATPL) and fancy shelling out another £30K for a type rating, you won't find many opportunities - at the moment.

Some turboprop operators have been advertising but since the money isn't as good as the jet employers, many newbies have priced themselves out of that market.

So my advice, stay in Australia and get an Australian CPL. Get a job and gain some experience. Unless you have an Australian ATPL you'll have to do the IR and some CPL type flying in the UK to finish the conversion. The Australian ATPL theory will help with the JAA/EASA/Whatever they're called this week exams and understanding.

The market isn't likely to pick up in any significant way for low houred guys for a few years yet. While you're waiting, I would pick up another language. If you have French relos, learn that language. Very useful.

Keep a weather eye on Europe. When it expands, it really expands.

[wlshwzd]

Moving around is great as long as your single person. Paying/doing your own conversions is a very time consuming and expensive process.
I personally have US, Australian, United Arab Emirates and JAA Licences.
and have paid for all bar one.It's obviously better if you find an employer that's willing to give you a job and do it for you.Also don't forget you need the right to live and work in that country - Visa passport etc.
In discussing the Australian to JAA - UK licence conversion, it completely depends on your experience. The best place to find out what you need to do is go to the uk CAA website or google and search for the LASORS document - similar to CAR's and look in section D for CPL or Section G for ATPL. Then look at the myriad of European and now Australian training providers that offer JAA conversions and ground exams and your looking at around 20,000 Australian dollars for a CPL/ME/IR and then perhaps an A320 or B737 type on top of that.
You can do the exams and CPL part in Oz but the IR training and skills test must be done in Europe.
Or work your way up to a PIC job on A320/737 (easier said than done) gain the required experience and apply to a European operator when the market picks up.
In short my advice, stay in Australia - Do what you can - But more importantly have fun and enjoy yourself. Modify what your currently doing now to achieve your goal in the future. Good Luck

[rudy.fidao]

Hello chaps, sorry it took me a while to get back to this thread and reply to it.

Thanks to all of you for your informative responses, and the last two large ones too! Cheers.

Damnit I would love to fly, but if there's one thing you can pick up before you've even begun, it's that nothing in flying is ever a simple or easy matter. I suppose that's why it gets special people.

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate what you've detailed here, it's hard to get any sort of info anywhere else!

Kind regards,
Rudy

[pistinaround]

From someone who has converted a Australian ATPL to a JAA/CPL the rewards are there to be had (ie more choice of jobs) but the reality of it is there are more people going for these jobs also. The conversion of a CPL/IR in all honestly is really an 18 months process. By the time you do your 14 ATPL subjects do your actual CPL/IR conversion at a flying school and then do an MCC course after that it is a very time consuming and expensive process, and dont even get me started with the UK CAA wait till you start dealing with them.
Thats the truth about a licence conversion. Been there done it,its tough if I could go back and start again I would do things diffrently, I tell you this because if you do intend to return to the UK this is what will happen. Plan your future carefully it will help your bank balance in the future.

[Abu Bebo]

If the JAA ATPL exams are valid for an AUS CPL then that would be a flexible option. Once you have your CPL with Command Instrument Rating and JAA ATPLs, converting the licence to UKJAA CPL/IR is quick and easy, you can be all done in 6 weeks - 4 for the CPL/IR, 2 for the MCC - so if the job market looks like picking up you wouldn't miss out.
In the meantime, RACWA will be able to sort out your CPL and JAA requirements, or you could distance-learn with Bristol GS and get your initial JAA medical done at Gatwick when you come over for the exams.

A.B.