NEWQUAY

[Charlie Fox]

Newquay Airport is suffering a cash crisis. See the following BBC article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3124374.stm

[MerchantVenturer]

I think Sutton Harbour Holdings plc were the operators of Newquay Airport until last year, but not the owners. Can anyone confirm?

If so, I wonder what effect, if any, their pulling out had on the airport. It is interesting to see that Sutton now owns Air South West, the airline that says it cannot afford the landing fees that BA is apparently paying.

I guess that the sub region will consider Air South West's presence at the airport, with its LGW connection, more important than economic landing fees.

It looks then that public money of some sort or other will have to be found if the airport is to continue. Cannot see MOL putting his hand in his pocket for the good of Cornwall, and why should he.

[marlowe]

Well NQY is actually an RAF base with the PAX terminal on the otherside of the field so I guess that Sutton harbour did not actually own the airport.

[Hap Hazard]

Having seen the regional news in Cornwall last night, it seems a tad ironic that the council are up in arms because to quote what they say, will leave them short of funds by some £500,000 in landing fees with BA pulling out.........meanwhile they went on to say Ryan are not paying a bean in landing fees as they argue they are bringing buisiness to the region.
So who's the fool here? certainly not MOL!
:oh:

[niknak]

St Mawgan is up for sale from, I believe, early 2005, when the MOD pull out.
I can't see that the beleagured Cornish rate payers would tolerate subsidising a regional airport that can only attract 2 flights a day from Stansted, no matter how long it takes by road or rail to travel to London or anywhere else.

Prior to Ryanair, the town thrived with tourism of the proper and decent kind, it's these people who actually "invest" a lot more money into the region by spending two weeks holiday there, than the vast majority of the B.A or Ryanair passengers.

Let the poor little spoilt brats who are the vast majority of Ryanairs NQY passengers, take their surfboards and drugs by road, it will take them so long to get there, by the time they arrive they'll have forgotten why they went in the first place.

At least it will return to being a decent place to take the family, and the residents of Newquay might be able to get some kip at night. :rolleyes:

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

At fifteen quid each way I'd expect not so thick Mick is highly delighted to be lugging waterproof ironing boards to and from pastieland. I'm sure he'd take a dim view of drugs on his planes though, wouldn't he?

[thedude]

Down here in the southwest this was all forseen (except of course by the regional development agency).

How b****dy stupid can you be. You have a regional airport operating on a knife edge financially with one major commercial operator. You then say, 'I know that the current operator has kept us afloat for donkey's years, but let's subsidise a rival operator, (foreign operator I might add), by allowing him free/susidised access. This will give us more airport through traffic and hopefully bring more people to the area".

Oops! now we've upset the current operator who has seen profits drop and they have now pulled out. Still, at least we have the new one. Oh s**t! but we don't charge him anything to land so the airport is now financially in trouble.

Never mind there will be another operator coming along to operate that route. Ah! but will they want to pay any more than the one we have subsidised? .....I'll give you one guess!

Having seen the latest press coverage of this issue, I found it incredulous that when the airfield operators cried poverty and losses, not one of the reporters asked why. Just what sort of business school did these guys attend?

Ah! I feel better to get that off my chest.

[MerchantVenturer]

niknak and the dude,

Is the majority opinion in Cornwall that it would be better not to have an airport if it means a large subsidy from local tax payers?

Without a London air connection would not the region be even more isolated, and I am thinking of Cornish people wanting to travel rather than tourists coming in?

Without an airport it means a surface jaunt to Plymouth (for LGW, always assuming that Air Southwest would find a LGW-PLH route viable without NQY), Exeter (for slightly more choice given flybe's new plans) or Bristol (for more choice again, but still only European destinations). Otherwise it means a road or rail trip to the capital.

It seems to me that the Southwest Regional Development Agency is alive to the needs of the far southwest as they out it, mainly Devon and Cornwall in plain language, when it comes to air services.

They commissioned a survey earlier this year into air travel in the far southwest and certainly subsidy of routes is something being considered, but that would not come from local tax payers directly.

[thedude]

MV,

actually the point I was trying to make was not anti-subsidy, but one of anti-one-sided subsidy. You can hardly subsidise one party only to complain when the other pulls out. :cool:

[MerchantVenturer]

thedude,

I take your point, but because I see you live in the southwest, probably nearer to Cornwall than me, I was wondering if you had a view on the feelings of local people, local government on putting hands into local tax payers' pockets to keep the airport going, as opposed to route subsidies which might eventuate as well but from a different, not directly locally funded, public purse.

I would have thought that NQY is important, if not vital, to the economy and social fabric of Cornwall.

[nonemmet]

NIKNAK

I doubt if Cornwalls' tourist industry will have any future if it hopes to rely on families driving down for a 2 week holiday.

1. The weather is too unreliable- it is far cheaper to holiday in a more sun sure destination.

2. The current surfing craze has brought the first investment for years to many of Cornwalls' north coast resorts. Newquay was not thriving before the advent of Ryanair, but was cheap and tacky a classic example of the worst of English run down seaside resorts, it has degenerated into its current mess precisely because of the decline in people taking family holidays in Corrnwall, not the other way around. However due to the new found and increasing popularity with the surfing community and probably more particularly the Sloan hangers on who aspire to buy in to the surfing community, there is now evidence of properties being renovated and new projects, for example Rick Stein is proposing a substantial and quality redevelopment to an old and run down cliff top Hotel in the town centre. The national surf centre on Fistral beach is a recently completed example of what the new investment has achieved, more of this type of high quality development and Newquay could start to rival some of the best surfing resorts of Southwest France.

3. In my view the future of Cornwalls' tourist industry depends upon being able to continue to attract the growing number of people who come for a short break at short notice when they know the weather and/or surf is good. It is easy to knock those who come down with out much money to spend, but their presence is vital to creating the 'surf dude' atmosphere that attracts those with the money to places such as Newquay.



As any one who has attempted to drive to/from Cornwall on a Friday/Saturday and increasingly Sunday will know, the traffic can be appalling, definitely no incentive especially when driving with children.

The rail service is such a joke as to be hardly worth a mention, but even if you were to use it, once in Cornwall a car is essential due to the lack of useful public transport, unless you plan to stay in Newquay for 2 weeks (it is one of the few resorts with a railway station).

Unless road/rail links are improved substantially.....(2 chances), then air travel is the only way of making Cornwall more accessible to the rest of the UK and vice versa. This was stuck in a rut with the BA Dash 8 service, which stifled demand through high fares and poor capacity. The Local authorities might have begun to realise this but they are not noted for their sharpness and foresight as THE DUDE points out, and are probably terribly confused by the turn of events they just need a little firm guidance. Hopefully this will be forthcoming before RAF St Mawgan/Newquay airport is sold off and turned into a business park. It is already too late for Plymouth airport due to local authority weakness in the face of the NIMBYS.

Not withstanding the double standards shown by the French regarding subsidy, their local authorities have all realised that finding the cash to attract Ryanair pays dividends, all that is required is for Cornwall County Council, R.D.A. etc. to get the message, and put the case to the taxpayers that this is a good investment of their money and will make us all richer in the long run.

[GROUNDHOG]

Greetings from the far west of Cornwall and one of its 'taxpayers'.

Here are a few facts.

the dude speaks the truth, those that control the airport pursestrings shouldn't be suprised a new carrier isn't paying mlanding fees, but surely this is an interim situation. Do the new owners know the airport will be for sale in 2005?

Plymouth and Exeter are east of the Taimar and therefore not in the West Country. Bristol is bl**dy miles away.

Cornwall does not revolve around Newquay, 99% of surfers drive vans and cars they do not fly on Ryanair. They have always been here - though the popularity has increased. The few whinging residents of Newquay are the same ones who own the bars, restaurants, taxi's, campsites that are happy to take their cash. They are the few.

The passengers that fly down here are either business, vfr or leisure ( many second home owners). Cornwall has more than beaches and a great way of life to attract them down.... Eden project, Maritime Museum, Minnack Theatre... how long have you got.

Rick Stein has had a big influence on Padstow (and property prices there) but I doubt the residents of Redruth or Camborne have felt much of his influence.

Would I pay money to keep St Mawgan open ... NO! Switch all the flights to Culdrose, develop Truro or Perranporth. ( both of which the Council have rejected so far)

Would I pay money to maintain an air service to Cornwall.... YES!

Finally if anyone from St Mawgan reads this.... think about engineering companies. freight services, a private jet centre, storage etc after all there is a lot of money around for attracting business to these regions!!

[thedude]

MV,

unfortunatley, as my lively-hood is aviation related, my opinion on whether St. Mawgan should get local subsidy is irrelivant. It would be like asking someone if they wanted a pay rise.

I do believe, that contrary to current aviation commercial belief, an airfield central to the Devon and Cornwall area, ie. St. mawgan, can be productive, with a little forsight and if correctly managed. After all, this area is the nicest in England!
I'm gutted at having to leave. :(

[Afterburner]

My spies tell me that Newquay's debts are nearer £1 million, not £500,000. Cornwall County Council has apparently agreed a £350,000 bailout as an interim measure and Restormel Borough Council is apparently being asked to stump up the same. The authorities jointly own the airport.
Ryanair is reportedly paying £1 a passenger and £100 a plane as part of a 10-year deal.
The other local authorities in Cornwall are now being asked to put their hands in their pockets and stump up some cash, the argument being that the airport supports the whole county.
I expect to see the airport groomed for privitasation and sold off in the next 18 months - exactly the same, in fact, as what is being proposed for Exeter.

[niknak]

If Newquay's debts are what has been speculated, and their entire customer base revolves around no more than a couple of commercial flights a day, the limited catchment area means that it has no future as a commercial airport.
Unlike Exeter, there appears to be an insufficiant business case for anyone wanting to buy the airport, and if I were a local politician, burdening the ratepayers with the cost of running it would not be the major item on my manifesto.
However, local authorities seem to like having an airport to burn ratepayers money on, and that, combined with the EEC money that is available to independant nations such as Cornwall, should see the airport survive in some entity or other.

[newswatcher]

A previous report said that the future of the RAF presence at the airport was subject to a further iteration of the "Strategic Defence Review" to be published in July or August '03. I don't seem to be able to find this, although a previous version, published about a year ago, had St Mawgan earmarked for "quick reaction alert aircraft".

What has changed since then? Is the JMCC still active?

Serco Group are currently running the civil side of the airport, until 2007.

[Flysundone]

Local press has been carrying a story about the trialling of a freight service out of Newquay Airport. Due to start flights in January 2005.

Anybody know who will operating the flights?

[Air Hop]

With the RAF announcing that St Mawgan is to be mothballed within two years and Cornwall CC already subsidising the civil operation to the max, what does the future hold for commercial flying?

Will a private buyer be sought, and could that work if the RAF want to retain the site?

Will this have an affect on operations at PLH?

[Red Four]

Perhaps look at it from a different angle....would the major commercial operator Ryanair want to pay the going rate for keeping the airport open.

Maybe they could apply for a RDF to subsidise the service??

[GROUNDHOG]

Hello Air Hop .... another local eh?

I know the council were half expecting this and they are looking at other ideas, I believe the media as usual are blowing things a little out of proportion.

I cannot see Newquay closing as a civilian airport, there are plans afoot to get in new revenue streams and it is too commercially important to Cornwall to let it fade away.

If you keep watching I think you will see more positve news in the not too distant future.

[niknak]

Groundhog,
I agree that the commercial importance of Newquay to Cornwall should be a major consideration, but speaking to a senior Serco Aviation Head Office Bod recently, they are convinced (and very concerned) that without a major (and we are talking seriously major) subsidy from someone, the place will close.

It looks like they rate payers of Cornwall will have to foot the bill and I am sure there are more pressing needs within the county for that money.

Obviously Ryanair, or any other airline, aren't going to put any money into the place, and Serco would only take over the complete operation if they were given a long term (20 years or so) contract to do so.
That option may have a large initial cost, but long term it would be relatively painless and rid the locals of the burden whilst still giving them a much needed airport.

[kala87]

Ryanair have already stated that they don't intend to pay any higher or extra charges in order to keep Newquay open - "there are 50 to 100 other airports in Europe that are begging us to start services", to paraphrase yesterday's announcement from the airline.

So the future has to depend on a major investor, or several major income streams. I can't imagine either Cornwall County Council or the District Councils increasing their subsidies to the Airport, year after year, to the extent required to keep the place open.

My own guess/hope is that the importance of the airport to the Cornish economy is so widely recognised in local government and the business/tourism sectors, that a very major and imaginative effort will be made to find new investors or income streams.

These initiatives could include a major new business park on surplus land, which would itself be dependant on the continuation of existing air links, and other aviation related activities (local news last night mentioned jet engine maintenance, a major professional flight training company, and a cargo transhipment hub).

Regarding new flights, it has always surprised me that more effort hasn't gone into attracting inbound foreign tourist charters to Newquay. Cornwall gets a lot of foreign tourists from Germany, the Netherlands, USA to name but a few places. Maybe there's scope for regular charters from these and other places, especially with the popularity of Eden Project and other major tourist attractions. Or how about a regular link Newquay-Exeter-Amsterdam to connect with KLM, like so many other UK airports?

[GROUNDHOG]

kala87... spot on and I have had discussions at the top level with the owners suggesting how they might do it. But we are west of the Taimar so as you know things take a little longer.

Niknak... Interesting comment from SERCO but under any major review as they only run the airport as a third party I wonder what the long term position would be anyway? If I were the council I would want to manage my own asset not leave it to SERCO long term.

[Mark Lewis]

Air Southwest are of course the other major operator there, would there be any likelihood of them (presumably them being Peel?) getting involved or are they too focused on PLH?

[WOWBOY]

If it came to the piont when Newquay had to close (Unlikely) Air southwest might have to change their Gatwick service to :

A 2xDaily Dierct from Plymouth

or...

Change to Plymouth-Exeter-Gatwick

I don't really think it would effect Plymouth dramaticly but it will effect people in cornwall as i have heard it brings Millions to the local economy.
And they would have to travel to Plymouth and Exeter

WOWBOY

[niknak]

Groundhog

I can understand that as a local business person, why you would be happier that the local authority run the airport than a contractor.

However, when Serco (or any other private contractor) take on a local authority contract, they offer better value for money for the council tax payers because the staff take on "multi function contracts" wherever this is feasible, ie with operational staff at the airport, it means that if the the grass doesn't need cutting, the grass cutters will be allocated another task, and overall, ground staff will encompass a number of roles.
It also saves the council a lot of employer costs, which should eventually mean a better return for the council tax payers, which probably includes you.
I accept that with the exception of a few specialist trades (such as ATCOs), it will also mean that employees at the base level will lose out in the long term, but that is a risk that exists in almost every industry these days.
If that's what it takes to keep the aiport going, so be it, there will always be a ready supply of people willing to take those posts.

[GROUNDHOG]

Niknak ... But the point I am trying to make is that no one looks after your asset and runs it more economically than yourself. It may well be that after running the numbers a third party operator is the best deal but neither of us I suspect are privy to that information.

In any event the whole future of the airport rests not on this but on what other revenue streams the Council can derive from its asset. It will never cover running costs from Ryanair, Air Southwest and Skybus alone so will either have to develop extra aviation related income or make up for it by developing the property itself to make return.

There is potential but for sure it will not be easy, but it could be done.

If not there is always Culdrose, Truro, Perranporth.....

[Non Emmett]

I haven't heard anything of note re Newquay for ages. Given the amount of funds that have gone in to the airport and Cornwall Council's present budget problems plus the pull out by Ryanair, how does this affect the set up? I read a comment not so long ago by the newish Chief Exec suggesting that the Council might well sell the set up in due course.

Cornwall needs the airport and I wish it well but these, I imagine are tough times for the airport management. As we tend to put it down this way, whos on ?

[Fernanjet]

Who's on....?

Newquay airport is never really going to do anything in all honesty is it...?

Seasonbal visits by party people.....thats about your lot to hope for really.

or close it down and save money - probably the better option

[derelicte]

Would it be sensible to shut down Plymouth and concentrate on Newquay? As far as I'm aware, developing Plymouth is not possible and having three minnow airports in the far South West just dilutes their strength.

[Dash-7 lover]

and the whole 'lets shut Plymouth' debate starts all over again for about the 30th time in as many years!

[derelicte]

Not seen the other 29 D7L. Just me thinking out loud.

[GROUNDHOG]

One would hope the new council and 'non exec director' who has actually run an airport before are now doing an audit as to why the facility is 'laaking like a baasket'. Bottom line is though only new businesses and facilities will make it viable and I am not referring to more scheduled flights.

Closing Plymouth would have no significant effect on Newquay.

Derelicte - what is the third minnow airport then?

[derelicte]

Exeter.
















I'll get me coat :oh:

[GROUNDHOG]

Yeah, probably a good idea....

[footster]

This will come back to bite CC on the backside big style.They were the ones who held a gun to the RAFs head asking for more civil slots and when the RAF refused and elected to pull out of St Mawgan they thought they could take it on and make it a go. Councils and airports have never been a marriage made in heaven.

[ab33t]

It would be a pity though, it seems all the smaller good airports are really taking a hit

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

I haven't heard anything of note re Newquay for ages.

Then you obviously missed the NQYLGW route winning Anna Aero's cake of the week just before Xmas! New routes launched during the last week (Saturday 12 - Friday 18 December) | anna.aero (http://www.anna.aero/2009/12/18/new-routes-launched-during-the-last-week-saturday-12-friday-18-december/)

This is the most exciting thing to happen in the South West since the publication of Sutton Harbour's last set of accounts..........

[cornishsimon]

well lets just see what the new year brings as things pick up in the world economy.

i wouldnt be too surprised to see SZ expand the current fleet and route offering, perhaps a couple of extra dash's and i could see a year round route to Germany, Paris and Amsterdam operating NQY-PLH-xxx and i cant see any reason why if FR dont come back on the STN route why SZ couldnt pick it up.

EW- will be back for summer 2010 to operate for Lufthansa to DUS and i wouldnt be too surprised to see the frequency increased and maybe FRA added in due course as Cornwall is a popular destination for German visitors.

BE- well who knows, the one nightstopping aircraft will operate LGW x3 daily and EDI daily

everything at WW is up in the air currently so i wouldnt expect to see too much extra from them.

i expect that at some stage we could see INV, ABZ and BHX from either SZ or BE but like i say it will depend on the financial situation!

Cargo and maybe some aircraft support work could well help with movements in the long term, i know currently the airfield is used to store several aircraft. i dont honestly think that things at NQY are quite as bad as people are making out!

CS

[Non Emmett]

Thanks Drink Up Thee Cider - a tasty morsel but will Newquay Airport give the Cornwall Council charge payers indegestion ? I agree with earlier comments that new routes will not solve the financial problems but diversification will take time. Have the Council got the time, the money and the will power ? Let's hope so.

[GROUNDHOG]

Bearing in mind the success of the Eden Project and the fact that Cornwall is primarily a leisure destination where European funding is available I would love to see someone have a look at the potential of developing a major themed leisure center at Newquay Airport, how about a snowdome for starters since there is no such facility anywhere in the South West of England.

[GK430]

Perhaps doing away with mandatory handling charges might see more 'leisure' visitors in smaller planes.

In the meantime - we'll go to the friendly place down the coast.

[watkin]

Which is? :)

[Non Emmett]

Which is?

Perranporth ?

[learjet50]

Re Newquay

Its a Big Airport (Area wise) with a small catchment area and seasonal
Forget the Eden Project people are not goint to fly to Newquay to visit this They will Drive or go by train

Airlines will only fly where theres business all year


And Therefore NOT NEWQUAY

[GROUNDHOG]

Precisely why its future as I have said so often relies on the development of that big area to make the whole facility a contributer whether there are ten flights a day or ten flights a year.

[Non Emmett]

I think Groundhog has a relevant point here. However many flights Newquay might eventually attract, they are unlikely to provide more than a small proportion of the significant running costs of the airfield. Renting out of the HAS's, using hangar space and the considerable acreage involved ought - in theory- to help make ends meet. But it needs not the plodding hand of the public sector but some dynamic private sector involvoment. Who is going to bring in the commerical activites to provide much needed employment in aircraft maintenance and servicing, aircraft breaking and storage and much more. A skilled engineer around here is lucky to earn more than £9 per hour so Newquay could surely compete in terms of wage structure.

Which airfields serve as role models? Kemble has a useful aircraft breaking role, Exeter the last time I took a look had several aircraft stored though probably this is not that lucrative. I am interested but not convinced of the way ahead - probably reflects the Cornwall Council view now that I think about it.

[GROUNDHOG]

Not only is Non Emmett correct but as an example an entrepreneur friend took a proposal from an overseas engineering company to open a base at Newquay and was met with complete lack of any enthusiasm or interest. The company is now close to closing a deal with an airfield in Wales.

[Raven30]

Perhaps doing away with mandatory handling charges might see more 'leisure' visitors in smaller planes.Whilst its always good to have GA using the airport, they are hardly the key to making Newquay highly profitable. The handling charges reflect the target market ie Corporate and Executive traffic and I think you'll find no complaints from those customers. There will soon be a separate GA park available with minimal facilities, but so far as I am aware, no mandatory handling charge.

In the meantime - we'll go to the friendly place down the coast. Are you saying that Newquay, or its Handling Agent is unfriendly? Plenty of satisfied aviators who would disagree with you......

[RSOL]

Thompson has opereated 2 charter flighs out of Newquay to the Caribbean this winter and from what i've heard the feedback from the airline has been positive. Who knows, maybe Thompson will start flying from Newquay on a regular basis. But i don't think until next summer tho.

[Dash-7 lover]

Groundhog, looking through your posts, do you have any positive thoughts about NQY now the RAF have released their grip? Re your entrepreneur friend.....was there a possibility that the plans were a load of b.....x and that's why they were met with a lack of enthusiasm. There are 2 sides to a story.

[devonish]

Whay will this mean for NQY- BMI baby leaving manchester - no nqy route ?, air southwest cancelling cwl,ncl and also cutting back on the brs route. tough times ahead

[GROUNDHOG]

Dash 7 Lover - sorry just seen your post I guess the second sentence answers the question, as far as I know the facility is going ahead in Wales, no idea whether it is a good idea or a bad one.

Positive thoughts, said it already the future lies in the profitability of the whole facility not on the number of flights. There will probably be a need for air services into NQY long after I am gone but what else can be done there?

[devonish]

I see British International Helicopters are now not coming to NQY from Penzance, but they are going to build a new heliport near Penzance, lets hope this does not effect NQY that much or is it more doom and gloom for NQY

[cornishsimon]

arent they ?

They have already established a MX base:
Newquay Cornwall Airport - Over 20 jobs created in major helicopter firm deal with Newquay Cornwall Airport (http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/index.cfm?articleid=49469)

iv not actually seen anything in the local press about the services not moving from Penzance to NQY but it wouldnt surprise me, then again i doubt that would make much difference to NQY one way or another

cs

[Phileas Fogg]

Well, some while ago, the plan was to operate St. Just to/from the islands and base the choppers overnight(s) at NQY however Skybus operate St Just, Skybus say who comes and go at St. Just, and I heard that Skybus had said "no" obviously not wanting the competition on 'their' route.

[cornishsimon]

exactly,
last i heard in the local press is that from October 2011 the routes would operate ex NQY

cs

[Phileas Fogg]

But a vast amount of the chopper pax are connections to/from Penzance mainline rail station, whilst Nookie has a rail station it is hardly mainline and/or quite a journey to/from a mainline rail station combined with increased sector lengths, costs, fares etc, NQY to/from the islands.

It can't take too much to build a heliport ..... grass field, few portable buildings and a licence! :)

[GROUNDHOG]

Agree entirely with the point Phileas makes, mainline train connection is surely essential to the service. Bodmin may even be a better alternative than Newquay at least it has a mainline station? Building a new field at Penzance must be the answer though.

[Phileas Fogg]

Or operate some of these aircraft instead of choppers ..... and instead of a geriatric flat bottomed ferry:

Products - Griffon Hoverwork (http://www.griffonhoverwork.com/products)

[diginagain]

ISTR reading last week in one of the local papers a suggestion that BIH were looking at flying from a new site at St Erth, which, as I'm sure you're aware, is on the the main line into Pz.

It's here (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/452943-bih.html) too.

[Phileas Fogg]

And St Erth station is slap bang adjacent to the A30 ..... very good idea!

[diginagain]

Not only adjacent to transport connections, but the RSPB bird sanctuary on the Hayle estuary.

[GROUNDHOG]

Hayle Estuary is in the opposite direction to the Isles of Scilly though.

Good location right by A30 and mainline station.

I must stop agreeing with Phileas Fogg
I must stop agreeing with Phileas Fogg

x 100 times.

[JSCL]

I agree GROUNDHOG, he speaks too much truth :(

[diginagain]

Hayle Estuary is in the opposite direction to the Isles of Scilly though.

That's alright then. Must pop round and watch the '61s doing downwind quickstops........

[GROUNDHOG]

Just train the birds to only take off towards the ocean, much easier!

[Phileas Fogg]

diginagain,

Where would 'downwind' actually take the helichopper?

Do you know what runway headings any new heliport may have?

Penzance has runway 08/26 but that's probably due to a road or two running alongside the field, and even once any new runway heading may have been decided upon a heliport can then designate left hand or right hand circuits to a runway.

[cornishsimon]

i still think even if the Hayle option comes off that all MX will be done at NQY so the birds would return to NQY every night

cs

[virginblue]

Wasn't the BIH plan to move closer to the Scillies rather than further away? This in order to be able to better compete with the fixed wing operator from St. Just?

[GROUNDHOG]

Talking of birds is that all that flies in to Truro Airfield these days or is that an option? Granted it is not right by the railway but with a short transfer perhaps...?

[cornishsimon]

i drive past truro airfield most days, theres the odd chopper doing scenic flights and some small fixed wings, however the road access is truely awful !

i would very much doubt that it would be an option to be honest with you.

however the more that i think about it the Hayle option sounds quite good, walking distance from the railway station, small terminal building, fire facilities and a hard standing/helipad. fly the choppers in first thing and then back to nqy every night for MX/basing

cs

[Phileas Fogg]

The chopper's business is to provide road and rail transfers hence why this service has lasted for so long, along with providing 'awaydays' for the islanders to go shopping, hairdressers etc. etc. etc. in a mainland town, until now Penzance.

Between PZE and the Scillies there is no rail, insignificant roads and the only airfield is owned/operated by the chopper's competitor.

I stand to be corrected but I don't think Truro is a licensed airfield.

And why the hell would they build a new heliport facility, free landing/navigation fees, free parking, their own hangar etc, only to position, at great expense, the choppers to/from NQY every night?

[GROUNDHOG]

Surely though if you had to return to NQY every night you would simply operate a w pattern using the first and last rotations of the day..

[Phileas Fogg]

GROUNDHOG,

My previous post refers:

The chopper's business is to provide road and rail transfers hence why this service has lasted for so long, along with providing 'awaydays' for the islanders to go shopping, hairdressers etc. etc. etc. in a mainland town, until now Penzance.

The chopper doesn't, never has, nor does it want to operate a NQY route!!!

[diginagain]

Phileas, wrt helicopter operations, runway headings are largely an irrelevance. Departure and arrival headings will be dependant on the prevailing wind.

Having said that, I'm sure that someone at BIH will have done an environmental impact survey when looking at the suitability of the St Erth site for their operation.

[GROUNDHOG]

Phileas, I am aware of that you are preaching to the converted.

[Phileas Fogg]

Groundhog,

What's going on here is similar to what goes on in other airport threads .... an over enthusiastic airport worker or few taking their work home with them whilst trying to preach that the world cannot survive without their little ol' regional airport. :)

The chopper operates the shortest reasonable distance between two or more suitable landing sites, namely Penzance, St. Mary's and/or Tresco ..... the former airfield of Royal Air Force St. Mawgan does not figure in this equation.

[GROUNDHOG]

Well this is a Newquay thread after all but totally agree with you that there is no need or reason to operate the chopper from St Mawgan. There is no need from Lands End either. If the service survives it can only be from Penzance or very close to it. Sorry NQY but in the unlikely event it ever did happen it wouldn't last five minutes.

I promise not to repeat it again but NQY will only secure a profitable future by attracting ancilliary aviation related or other businesses. It will not please the spotters but that is the cold hard fact.

Spending millions on a new terminal, expensive consultants or re-arranging the deck chairs is not going to make it profitable.

[Phileas Fogg]

I disagree Groundhog, NQY could become profitable if they turned it in to a camping & caravan site, holiday accommodation, theme park etc. :)

Obviously the chopper needs a mainland operating base but, even without a new heliport, I agree that operations to/from NQY would kill it, there are a number of airfields in Cornwall and several of them closer to the Scillies, and a railway, than the other side of St. Mawgan airfield.

[GROUNDHOG]

A snow dome thats what it needs..... with ski slopes and you could take the people to the top by helicopter..... hang on a minute!

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm still trying to figure, since the RAF have vacated St. Mawgan airfield, why a seaside town such as Newquay needs two airports!

[cornishsimon]

I'm still trying to figure, since the RAF have vacated St. Mawgan airfield, why a seaside town such as Newquay needs two airports!


There is in fact still heck of a lot of RAF aircraft movements using NQY.

I agree as stated previously that the only BIH ops at NQY will be MX, operating chopper flights ex NQY would never even break even, especially in direct competition with the fixed wing services already offered @ NQY

I promise not to repeat it again but NQY will only secure a profitable future by attracting ancilliary aviation related or other businesses. It will not please the spotters but that is the cold hard fact.



totally agree with you.

i can also see cargo potential, in the same way as EMA/STN etc but obviously nowhere near such a scale as these two airports

cs

[Phileas Fogg]

Simon,

Please allow me to assure you that a golden rule of an airline is to limit non revenue flying to as minimal as possible, non revenue in this instance referring to maintenance ferry flights.

Particularly during the winters there might only be a need for one chopper rotation to/from the island(s), it would take a chopper longer to ferry NQY/Heliport/NQY than it would to fly revenue Heliport to/from the island(s).

If you were to build your own home would you build the house in St. Erth but build the garage (to house your car) in Carloggas? Then when you get home of an evening, after a day's work, you can drive your car to Carloggas to then get a taxi home again to do the reverse situ the following morning and you can do this seven days per week, wouldn't it be great?

When I said "RAF vacated" i mean that it is no longer a MoD operated (funded) airfield, the military might be using it but they're only using it because it is there, the military won't have signed any long term contract with the airfield operator regarding continued usage thus there is no guarantee of continued revenue from military usage.

Continuing to operate St. Mawgan airfield will continue to be a drain on public funds, for years it was a turboprop airport with just the occasional jet visitor, indeed in crosswind conditions DHC7's would land across the 300ft wide runway! I still recall the NQY Airport fuel bowsers 'Sweaty Betty' and 'Fat Ann', I can't recall which of these they lit a bonfire under one morning to thaw the diesel in the fuel tank. :)

Meanwhile just down the road there is Perranporth, an already demonstrated viable aerodrome operation, ask any (honest) beancounter what the most viable option would be, to continue funding St. Mawgan airfield or sell the airfield off relocating NQY airport to Perranporth whilst investing in resurfacing/extending Perranporth's runway 05/23 to a maximum length, instalingl lighting and generally upgrading the aerodrome to an 'airport'.

But anyway, what your suggesting is ludicrous, PZE has a hangar and maintenance facility, it is being proposed that they relocate the heliport to St. Erth but you're suggesting that they forget to plan for a hangar in St. Erth and be forced to use an airfield on the other side of the county for hangarage!

[diginagain]

Perranporth? YGBSM, as they say. Even poorer road/rail communications, restricted site, no closer to potential customers, and in need of huge investment.

I thought you might have pushed for Portreath, which is close to the C-P-R conurbation, a mainline railway station and the Redruth junction of the A30, is secure and the main runway is in arguably better condition than Perranporths. Just have the incumbents move the RRH closer to SHQ and the bunker.

[Phileas Fogg]

diginagain,

Portreath has a 'chemical (biological) germ warfare' or similar testing background which seems to be somewhat offputting to many people!

It's about the size of the field, Cornwall has no need for a mega expanse field and certainly no need for a 9,000ft runway such as St. Mawgan, the larger the field the more expensive the operating costs, just to illuminate a 9,000ft runway is 50% more expensive than it need be!

St. Mawgan will drain public funds this year, next year, the year after and for every year they continue to keep it open with public funding, Perranporth would be a 'one off' cost, Perranporth is already commercially viable (Portreath is not), give them a shiny new runway and taxiway or two, lighting, perhaps an ILS, a parking area and terminal, car park and then the council can wipe their hands of this annual financial burden whilst leaving Perranporth to get on with it.

As for road and transport (rail) connections, well the current Newquay airport doesn't have those anyway so any new airport has little, if anything, to improve upon in this respect.

[diginagain]

PF, I agree; the legacy of CDE Nancekuke isn't going to be overcome any time soon, sadly. I'm also in agreement with your view on the expense of maintaining all that Tarmac near Newquay. It could be put to use as an industrial estate, taking direct access onto the site at Spitfire Corner, if we didn't have enough vacant units and not enough industry already.

While both Perranporth and Portreath have their attractions, its a moot point anyway as we're unlikely to see either of them developed to their fullest potential.

[Phileas Fogg]

Portreath has one attraction ... the 'Portreath Bakery' shop in Portreath village does the best Cornish Pasties I've ever tasted. :)

[diginagain]

Their outlet in Lanner is closer for me. Much better than Berrymans, and almost as nice as the wife's.

[ajamieson]

NQY could mitigate some of its losses by addressing the incompetence of its retail offer.

Went through LGW-bound the other weekday evening at 5pm; no local beer (Tribute) or any draught beer available, no pasties or other hot food (nothing even available to defrost), no newspapers left for purchase except two well-fingered copies of the Independent and nothing sensible to purchase in the magazine section either. The solitary staff member was not a product of charm school and the landside cafe was closed altogether. It pains me to say that Flybe got my catering £££ instead.

[diginagain]

NQY could mitigate some of its losses by addressing the incompetence of its retail offer.

It could, but I guess we all know the likelihood of that ever happening......

[Phileas Fogg]

Why should the airport concern itself, the airport isn't a commercial enterprise, it doesn't need to make a profit, indeed the more it loses the more the state will subsidise it!

[Rubber Duck]

PF, Coffee Republic will take over the concession on 1 July 2011. They were voted best coffee on the London high street by the London Evening Standard - Feb 2011.

[Phileas Fogg]

Well there you have it Mr Jamieson ..... you make mention of a lack of local produce and Nookie Airport's solution is to bring in some coffee company, allegedly, well known in London!

Only a matter of time before the Airport becomes reknowned for it's Cornish produce, genuine pasty recipes and cream teas etc. :)

[ajamieson]

<sigh>

Indeed. Nothing people want more to take home from Cornwall than its famous, erm, coffee.

I've taken part in numerous pax surveys at NQY and it has never made any difference. Unless everyone else actually asked for crap food and drink, nothing to read, no bar, no mobile phone signal, uncomfortable seats and a shop stocked like a Russian supermarket circa 1986.

Also, how come there are always about six staff on duty on the security 'hall' and yet it still never takes less than five minutes to clear? There's a pre-rummager, a scanner watcher and a post-rummager, but what do all the rest of them do? It is like the Standing-about Olympics.

Shame, because NQY should be able to make a virtue of its size by providing a unique and engaging airport experience. Sadly it merely provides a lesson in why councils shouldn't run airports.

[diginagain]

Question;Also, how come there are always about six staff on duty on the security 'hall' and yet it still never takes less than five minutes to clear?There's a pre-rummager, a scanner watcher and a post-rummager, but what do all the rest of them do? It is like the Standing-about Olympics.

Answer;Sadly it merely provides a lesson in why councils shouldn't run airports.