ATR Contract for Vietnam Airlines! [Archive]

slam dunk 4

29th Dec 2009, 15:45

I have received the ATR T&C's for Vietnam Airlines from Direct Personnel and Rishworth!

As a European Pilot which Agency would be better for me? Have read some pros and cons for Rishworth but only positiv stuff for Direct Personnel! Would you agree? Anyone out there who has signed a contract with one of these agencies?

Facts to be considered should be:

- health insurance for me and family
- payment (on time, reliable etc.)
- live insurance etc.

As a family father I am interested more in reliabilty then money!

Thank you in advance

mach 84

30th Dec 2009, 15:17

health insurance is so far ok, but you have to pay upfront usually and get reimbursed thereafter.
life insurance is not available.
payment is on time.
however to bring a family to vietnam needs to be evaluated carefully,
schooling is quite expensive and after the first excitement of staying in vietnam is gone it is pretty boring for a wife and kids. there is not so many activities available.
there are many guys working in vietnam airlines, who had their family with them here, but now the family has moved back to their native place as life got boring, as mentioned above, for them here.

slam dunk 4

30th Dec 2009, 20:13

may I ask if you are on the ATR with VN? and if yes, with wich agency?

Thank you

kwaiyai

31st Dec 2009, 05:23

be interested too know if anyone recently been called for SIM Check. A load at my Company applied but still told to standby as VNA very slow to process.
Regds,

mach 84

31st Dec 2009, 09:14

not on the ATR, but in vietnam with rishworth and no problems at all.

slam dunk 4

31st Dec 2009, 15:34

Thank you mach 84!

Is there anyone on the Direct Personnel contract?

Many thanks

kiterunner

1st Jan 2010, 05:23

Direct personnel is very new here. So I guess we still have to wait and see. For me, I m happy with rishworth.
:)

NVpilot

2nd Jan 2010, 11:29

I'm here in Vietnam and Rishworth is treating me good, their health Insurance system works well. No problems at all.

kaalos

3rd Jan 2010, 10:56

Hi there, expat flyers!!!

I am actually under contract in Africa, have screeening for ATR the next 20th of January. Could anybody explain how is the sim,,, what to expect kind of emergencies, etc. Thanks in advance

I realy look forward to moe there, looks beautiful!!!!:ok::ok:

jumpdrive

3rd Jan 2010, 14:15

you DONT need to pay in advance to get re imbursed
if you go to the dedicated hospitals of the insurer
like FMP or FV hospital
if you get new glasses or dental care
you pay and then pass it on to the broker/insurance representative
to be paid in next salary
no problems or questions asked
for your family, depending on plan you will get deducted monthly from salary

payment is always on time, before end of month
and even if you ask for an advance/ealier payment......... they will help
at least Rishworth does

direct personnel is very new
so i recommend either RAL or PARC

they have more contact's from inside to help you and guide you along the way

salary & benefits are almost the same in all the 4 agencies working in VN

Life insurance ...............youre asking too much
you gotta pay that yourself

CarbHeatIn

3rd Jan 2010, 22:09

I see Rishworth are accepting expressions of interest from experienced FOs for contracts on the ATR. Does anyone have any thoughts on or care to speculate about the package for a contract FO on the ATR? Quality of life as an expat FO? Chances of command? Any chance whatsoever of getting the airbus gig later?

ATR 250 Vmo

4th Jan 2010, 02:22

Kaalos check ur PM.!

ATR 250

jumpdrive

4th Jan 2010, 10:19

the quality of life will be the same as anyone living in VN
no diff
some airbus f/o's rent bigger apartments that some 777 expat captains
it depends on your lifestyle demands and how big ur ego is he he he he

regarding command.........no one knows
all this ATR expat f/o hiring is new to the airline

most of the contracts say that after 3 years
depending on the needs of either fleet (1st of all ATR fleet not needing u anymore)
you shall get a chance to jump to the 777 as F/O or A320 as P1

it has been done in the past

cya

ATR 250 Vmo

5th Jan 2010, 13:35

Could anyone please share some information on what to expect on the Vietnam ATR screening.?!

How does the sim session look like? Any tech question?

Please any info would be appreciated!

I'm invited in Jan as FO.

ATR 250

TopTup

5th Jan 2010, 23:55

RAL are THE WORST! First hand experience on that one. I was on contract with them not too long ago. If you need an agency to defend your T&C's, your contract if it is breached, your legal rights then you may as well whistle Dixie. RAL have a looong history of not paying on time, of withholding final salary after you resign in the hope you won't chase it up and when you do pursue things expect phone calls to be diverted, emails unanswered and finally if you need to threaten legal action you "may" only then get your money. FACTS.

I know of one guy owed $23k USD from RAL.

DPI and Parc are head and shoulders above the others.

No one has problems with RAL (or any other agency) until they NEED them to step up and defend you. RAL go running for the hills while I have seen Parc stand firm and others I have met with DPI have also received personal service as and when needed to keep things running smoothly.

Get used to, for example:
CONTRACTOR: "Water is wet."
RAL: "Well, we don't interpret it that way."

I can't stress it enough: do NOT touch RAL. Go to other forums and do a key word search or try asking anyone in the Indian Aviation scene!!!! Or, post the same question to those at Royal Brunei. You'll find "reputable" agencies won't touch some "contracts" (loose term) with a bargepole for a very good reason.

DO NOT TRUST RAL!!!!!!!!!!!

Life as a contract pilot is already unreliable enough without the money hungry and deceitful antics of an unsupportive agency screwing you over more.

kiterunner

6th Jan 2010, 05:33

No tech questions.
Usual emergencies. Expect hand flying and if there is a circle to land, be careful not to circle from the wrong side.
SOP here is a bit different and your partner (usually a local guy) may stick to his own procedures. Just understand, try to adapt and should be alright.
See you guys in Saigon.
Good luck!:ok:

jumpdrive

6th Jan 2010, 11:27

well mate
maybe your that one in a million case of ****ty luck

but

when the **** hitted the fan regarding the salary cut few months back

RAL.................was the ONLY one who stood up & did not took a penny from pilots
parc just send letters right away announing theyre cuts (pants down)

ive been working for them for YEARS now
and not a single salary has come in late
in fact as i mentioned earlier................we get paid even ealier than stipulated in contract
and if asked they will lend a hand in terms of money if you need
insurance (AIH) works like a swiss watch, zero hurdles

i think by what you experienced you wanna give a wrong image/idea to newcomers of what really is going on

and to be honest, to me all the 4 agencies here are doing the same
or whatever VNA lets them do
they just want to take theyre slice of the cake everymonth & bye bye see you later................do not disturb!!!!

enjoy 2010

TopTup

6th Jan 2010, 14:19

Jumpdrive.....no worries. We're allowed to disagree. My experience with RAL and all those around me was different:- despicably different. If anything I'm extremely happy that they have come to the party for you. I can only assure you and others that I am far, far, far from being the one in a million with a bad RAL experience. Slam Dunk 4 only needs to do some thorough research and make his/her own mind up.

But I can only draw from personal experience, as do you. I only advise others to seek further advice from outside of VAC like those in India and Brunei to name but 2 airlines where RAL has shown true colours time and time and time again.

Slam Dunk 4:
Good luck with your decisions and career. No contract or job is ever perfect and no one size fits all. Just go in eyes wide open and seek the bigger picture of agencies. Past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour, and we may all have differing perspectives and experiences. I would rather be unemployed that have my name associated with RAL ever again. Just my opinion. Jumpdrive has another which may be equally as valid.

(I would be interested to know which direction you choose / would choose after doing some thorough research - for interests sake alone)

CarbHeatIn

6th Jan 2010, 17:48

Cheers for the reply jumpdrive :ok:

I applied to both Rishworth and Direct last Monday for info on the FO contract. I registered online and forwarded my CV. I've well above the minimum requirements. Direct got back to me within hours. Still not a peep out of Rishworth.

It sems like it would be a great experience. However, the package on offer, considering the current dollar-euro exchange rate, and the ambiguity regarding command opportunities and fleet transfer mean I wont be persuing it. The fact I would also have to organise and fund my own way to Bangkok for assessmnet is not the greatest of incentives either.

Good luck to all of you who apply :ok:

Dream Land

8th Jan 2010, 05:09

Carbheat, try to remember that this is a contract position, you don't work directly for the airline, the contractor is 100% accurate when they say that upgrade is possible, but it won't be in any contract.

To date, pilots have moved from the ATR to the A320, 777 to A330, A320 to A330 and several from RH seat to LH seat and CA to TRI. Their is definitely no mention of this possibility in a contract from the agency because VAC allows this to take place only when it suits their needs on a case by case basis.

It is standard on this contract to pay your way to the screening, if you are successfully hired, you will be reimbursed by the agency you are working with.

Best of luck.

Holycow

9th Jan 2010, 10:29

Hi guys,

wanted to ask you about type of contract with Vietnam A. I would be happy with 4/4 contract but direct personnel offered me only 6/2 with the option of changing it later (after 6 months) if the company agrees...
How you see my chances with this change of contract from 6/2 to 4/4 ?
Another question is that I am ATR TRI/TRE, but the contract is for captain only. You think I might be able to change my contract into TRI (only change of contract) within some time ?
Thanks

Dream Land

10th Jan 2010, 16:41

Holycow, both possibilities are possible, one could only speculate. I am not aware of any ATR crews on 4/4, but there are a few on the A320.

There is no set period of time that you must wait, you will make a request through your contractor whenever you like, then wait for a response from the airline.

There are no guarantees here, there is no seniority here, if you do a good job and the company likes you, almost anything is possible.

Cheers, D.L.

aocrew

17th Mar 2010, 04:55

Any news regarding ATR FO and what r the salary like?

jumpdrive

17th Mar 2010, 18:58

avoid Rishworth
They Dont Respect Contract Terms
Toilet Paper Is Worth More
Go Parc Or Dpi
To/ga If You See Rishworht

nattom

6th Apr 2010, 10:16

Hi there!

Does anyone have information about Vietnam airlines simulator check?
(ATR FO)

I´m going to have one in a week and would like to know what to focus on, what do they expect, etc...

Any information will help.

Thx a lot.

PROBEUSMC

6th Apr 2010, 12:22

Rishworth? They advertise 6/2, 5/3, and 4/4. When you get on contract they do whatever they can to keep you 6/2, as their agency fee is reduced if you fly a reduced schedule. Almost no one gets 4/4. It took me 10 months of fighting Rishworth to get 5/3, through months of stalling, BS, lies, etc A couple of Parc guys showed up same month as me, requested it, and received it.

AVOID RISHWORTH LIKE THE PLAGUE, because they are.

I just resigned from VAC because Rishworth decided to cut our pay without our permission. They are lying scum.

Mike Higgins

10th Apr 2010, 10:16

PARC and DPI seem like good companies! Rishworth is completely unethical. I suspect some of the pro-Rishworth letters are company hacks in drag. I came from the states and didn't know any of the companies. Picked Rishworth because they were NZ based and closest. Not a great reason, I know, but the only thing I had to go on. What a mistake.

They have a long history here of contract problems. They say they submit your schedule requests, but actually don't, because your request lowers your pay, and consequently, their fee. Took three attempts before my request was even submitted to Vietnam Airlines.

The Rishworth pilots group is taking them to court right now over an illegal retroactive pay cut. You've probably seen my other posts. In February they unilaterally implemented a pay cut for work performed last August through January. Nice, eh? Completely illegal, but they're counting on people being too lazy or scared to hold them to their contract. What a mess!

PARC did NOT pass along a pay cut. DPI pays a little less (I think) and didn't have to cut their salary.

Vietnam is a great place to work, but make sure you're not working Rishworth! Cheers

Frenchymeric

10th Apr 2010, 10:32

Thank you guys for the rishworth warning
the problem is that Parc has no screening slost for the time..!
is there any parc or dpi guys to tell us how it is? :-)

see ya in Saigon if i can get the "good" contract..

Mike Higgins

10th Apr 2010, 10:39

15 of the Rishworth ATR contract pilots here are now forced to take their own company to court for breach of contract. They implemented an illegal retroactive pay cut in February for work conducted last August through January. I'll never apply for another Rishworth contract. Spread the word!

angelgabriel

12th Apr 2010, 03:58

Listen guys, don't listen to anyone . make up your own mind. If you need the job because you have a family to look after and bills to pay then go with who gets you into the door.

Have been here for sometime now and the guys that are leading the charge against rwoth is an A.T.R capt who will be ending his time in Vietnam soon because the age limit is 60.He has made his money and has nothing to lose. Mr.Higgins..lets not forget you came from the states where things were **** and you needed a job...you can leave anytime and go back to united because you still have a place there.

What are guys who don't have this option as a fall back going to do?
are you and mr A.T.R going to pay our bills?

This is Vietnam and they don't like things to rock their boat and believe me its the xpat pilots who will pay for this...not rworth or parc or dpi...its us.

We all need to look after eachother here and by telling guys not to come because some are unhappy is a very selfish thing to do.YOU are getting a monthly tax free salary and the bills are paid...there are guys out there who need a job asap.

Lets not forget,things are still in the toilet...Vietnam Airline is one of the few that are still expanding and taking in pilots...yes we can also go to china. Not many places to go for now...we as pilots have to pick our battles...losing a battle is ok..winning the WAR is better. The time of the pilots will come again !

PROBEUSMC

12th Apr 2010, 05:07

Angelgabriel;
Not sure if you read the previous posts, but you might want to before responding.
I too am from the states. Vietnam Airlines is a great gig. The job is great, you get treated far better than I was ever treated at United, both by the company and my coworkers. I think Mike will say the same, but you"ll have to ask him. Neither of us has the option of going back to work in the states anytime soon, and in my case, I will probably never go back.

Some of us, including myself and Mr. Higgins, failed to do proper due diligence on which contract agency to use when coming to work for VAC. We are now dealing with that mistake. It does not involve "rocking the boat" with VAC in any way. It will be handled in private, in a NZ court, where Rishworth will lose. VAC is not involved in any way, and could care less to tell you the truth. There is probably only one person so far who has "rocked the boat" and that is me. I resigned from VAC because I didn't want to work for Rishworth anymore. I gave VAC the contractually required notice, and told them I would like to come back some day. One of the two "Rishworth reps" quit her position with Rishworth over this as well.

Mr Higgins and myself are on this thread to answer questions and give our opinions on VAC. VAC is a great job. The ATR guys have been flying minimum hours for a long time from what I understand. I have yet to hear form one ATR pilot here that didn't think his job was great.

Go with DPI or Parc and avoid Rishworth is my opinion, and that opinion is based on the last 20 months dealing with Rishworth.