Same crap different day !!

[El Grifo]

Been trying to track Monarch ZB 234 out of LGW to ACE today at 15.10.
I fully realise that conditions are very poor.

I received several calls from the passenger who I am awaiting, updating me on how things were progressing.

I got a call saying they had boarded around 15.20, followed by another soon afterwards, saying that she had been advised that the rwy was being closed for 1 hour for de-icing.

After that, I tried tracking the progress on various sites, including the LGW site.

Every one was giving different information.

I contacted Monarch, who contacted operations, who advised that the flt would arrive in ACE at 20.50, not so bad I thought.

I explained the problems I was having getting solid info, at which point the contact advised that since this info was from Ops, it could be relied on.

20 mins later I get a call from the passenger advising me that they had been disembarked without further information. That is where she is now, sitting in LGW waiting for updates.

Funny how Ops reckons that flight is somewhere over Spain at this moment.

Why do they bother and what is the point of putting out misleading info.

This problem is not unique to the aviation industry, it is simply that they are the worst by far when it comes to accurate info. :ugh:

I know the conditions are bad but this is nothing to do with conditions and more to do with sheer disregard of the truth

If they do not take-off before 20.00, they will not take off at all.

ACE closes at midnight. Will they provide overnight accom ?

[Bealzebub]

The problem is the weather. The runway is closed for de-icing operations. The airport provides the airline operators with the anticipated time of re-opening. If it transpires that estimate is unreliable, then it will update and amend the estimate. Until an "Ok" is give from the clearance and inspection crews, the runway will not open irrespective of the inconvenience to all parties.

In the meantime, not only are delays building up in the terminal, but inbound aircraft needed for subsequent services are being diverted to other airports. Those aircraft waiting for departure are also themselves in one queue for a takeoff sequence and another for air traffic co-ordination once they eventually get airborne.

On top of this, crews waiting to take these flights out are on a duty time limitation where the clock started ticking when they reported for work. If they run out of hours a replacement crew is called out. These crews are then themselves affected by the weather and the disruption on the roads often causing further delays.

When operations pass on an anticipated time, it is obviously a "best guess" based on the information that is available to them (from many sources) at any given moment. They are not providing misleading information, nor do they not know where the aircraft is. It is stuck on the ground along with everybody else. It has absolutely nothing to do with a disregard of the truth, it has everything to do with a situation that involves multiple agencies all needing co-ordination when faced with a changeable and dynamic situation.

The airlines want their flights away. The crews all want to get away and safely home again. The passengers all want to get to their destinations. Everybody is frustrated and inconvenienced.

We work in an industry where accuracy is an intrinsic part of the operation. However when weather shuts down an airport, we cannot do anything other than wait for the the airport to re-open, and once advised that it is, work to get our flights away as expeditiously as possible given the other problems that will be a consequence of the earlier disruption.

[El Grifo]

I have a reasonable understanding and sympathy of and for the complexities of running such an operation in the vagaries of the English winter clime.

That is a total given.

What I fail to understand is why the operations department of a major UK charter airline advise me that the aircraft has been in the air for just under 2 hours, when the aircraft is in fact stuck in an airport where the staff are working their butts off trying create conditions where aircraft movements can proceed in a safe and orderly fashion.

If the ops people are not aware that the aircraft is temporarily grounded, then who does.

That is the nub of the matter.

Thank you for you concise reply.

[Bealzebub]

I contacted Monarch, who contacted operations, who advised that the flt would arrive in ACE at 20.50, not so bad I thought.

I explained the problems I was having getting solid info, at which point the contact advised that since this info was from Ops, it could be relied on.

20 mins later I get a call from the passenger advising me that they had been disembarked without further information. That is where she is now, sitting in LGW waiting for updates.


My understanding of what you said, was that you contacted Monarch (customer services?) who in turn obtained the latest information from operations. Depending on the time you called, they might well have anticipated an arrival at a particular time. Whatever the case, the operations department will pass on to the relevant parties the information it has at periodic intervals. Operations do not deal with public enquiries, so it is unlikely they would have advised you of anything directly. More likely you were being provided the latest information that had been given to customer services.

As I have already stated, everybody is frustrated by a fluid timescale, that cannot be relied upon. Even when the runway does open there will be a host of other considerations not least the fact that as you say your airport is not a 24 hour operation.

[El Grifo]

This is the problem.

I was kept hanging on during an international call whilst Operations was called.

I was told categorically that the flight would arrive at ACE 20.50.

I questioned the veracity of the statement and was assured of its accuracy.

The aircraft was on the ground.

Do you think I was misinformed or were they flat out lying?

[Bealzebub]

No I cannot imagine why anybody would lie to you, what would be the point?

I do not know if you were misinformed. It would depend on the information that was being disseminated at that time. As this information seems to have been relayed, it is possible it was misunderstood at some point in the chain. It is also possible it was the best guess at that time. Perhaps it was the expected departure time, or the scheduled arrival time. Who knows?

If you are in contact with the passenger you are waiting for, they are probably going to be your best source of information, as they are at the gate or getting the latest anticipated departure time from the on site departure boards.

If the runway remains closed, then every airline is in much the same situation, and will be unable to do anything more than provide a best guess for the departure time of their flights. Some will delay flights, others will cancel them. It depends on the circumstances. All anyone can do is wait.

[El Grifo]

Bealzebub, You are right of course and I appreciate you valuable information.

The passenger in question, my daughter, is still on the ground.

The flight time between LGW and ACE at best is 3hrs 35mins.
ACE closes at midnight, 20 mins later in special circumstances.

I think she is on an all-nighter in LGW.

Will they provide accomodation do you think or is she likely to be sleeping on a bench ?

Just had a call this minute. Flight cancelled !! No surprise there !!

Where do you think that leaves her. What you advise ??

[Anansis]

El Grifo
This is the problem.

I was kept hanging on during an international call whilst Operations was called.

I was told categorically that the flight would arrive at ACE 20.50.

I questioned the veracity of the statement and was assured of its accuracy.

The aircraft was on the ground.

Do you think I was misinformed or were they flat out lying?

Despite the extraordinary circumstances when all members of staff were undoubtedly extremely busy, at least one employee took the time and effort to attempt to address your enquiry directly. As Bealzebub explains there are a lot of variables to consider and the person who dealt with you gave you the best answer they could based on the information available to them (were they aware you were making an international call?). I understand how frustrating this must be for you, but IMO the fact that they took the time to contact Ops in such circumstances demonstrates good customer service that would be lacking from a lot of other airlines.

Edit........................................................ ........

Just read your last post re. your daughter.

Sorry- I didn't understand your situation totally. For what its worth I once experienced a cancelled monarch flight AGP-MAN a few years back. Staff were totally professional. Got some of us onto a BA flight to LGW then bussed us home (the rest were put up in a hotel. It was a technical fault but they still bent over backwards to help everyone, going far beyond what the minimum requirements in such a situation). Monarch are often more expensive than their competitors, but the standard of service is higher too. On past experience I'd say your daughter will be well looked after.

Hope things work out alright for you.

[El Grifo]

Thanks for that Anansis.

Currently trying to book her on another flight tomorrow.

Strangely enough same flt. no. at same time coming up for tomorrow. Does that perhaps indicate a re-schedule, or should I just re-book.

I bow to your superior, collective knowledge folks !

[Bealzebub]

That will be the next scheduled flight.

The airline is not responsible for weather related delays, but if she speaks with an airline representative or Swissport the handling agent, they should be able to assist her with protecting a flight for the following day, if there is a seat available. Obviously it is the run up to Christmas, and she needs to do this quickly. Given that everybody else will be trying to do the same thing, it might be useful if you telephone to assist.

Regarding accomodation, there are lots of cancelled and disrupted flights which will be putting a heavy demand on local hotels. If it was my daughter I would be on the computer or phoning around to secure her a hotel room as quickly as possible unless there are already arrangements in place.

The Hilton and Holiday Inn at LGW are full, and I haven't searched any others. However only a short train ride to Brighton if she gets stuck and the Hilton metropole is offering this rate (https://secure.hilton.co.uk/HiWayWeb/appmanager/portals/reservation?_nfpb=true&_windowLabel=bookReservation_portlet_1&bookReservation_portlet_1_actionOverride=%2Fcom%2Fhilton%2Fh iway%2Fportlets%2Freservation%2Fbook%2FshowRooms&_pageLabel=reservationPortal_mainBook_reservationBook_reserv ationPage) for £69 tonight.

[jeanyqua]

Hi,
i understand your frustration.
The weather has just been awful here this week,
I Just copied this from their website.
"Our primary concern is to transport you to your destination safely and on time, but in the event of your flight being delayed or cancelled, or that you are denied boarding due to over booking, Monarch Airlines is aware of our obligations under the European legislation regarding your rights to compensation (Regulation (EC) 261/2004).
If, after you purchase your ticket, we make a significant change to the scheduled flight time, which is not acceptable to you, and we are unable to book you on an alternate flight, which is acceptable to you, you will be entitled to a refund for the ticket or the portion of the ticket as applicable."
Just to add,we were delayed with monarch flying out a couple of chrismasses ago.
We were on the plane,then off,then on again,Then back in the airport.
Ironically we ended up back in the hilton airport where we had stayed before.
I will say monarch were great,they gae a a 3 course meal,& we stayed overnight,& then flew out early the nevxt day.

[El Grifo]

She is three from the front of the queue at the monarch desk, I am hanging on to a seat for tomorrows flight ready to press the pay button, but she is overhearing information from the desk about 5 inches of snow forecast tomorrow and the low possibilities of flights going.

Its like a cheap drama being played out in front of my eyes.

Pretty good feedback though guys.

I love Pprune but have never used it in such a live kind of way.

Back to the mobile and the keyboard. Watch this space !!

Any suggestions are welcome needless to say :)

[jeanyqua]

There are rooms available at the Premier inns at both crawley south (golf parks) & crawley east.
Both are just a couple of miles from gatwick & both at £69.00.



Phone numbers are ///
crawley sth 0870 990 6390.
crawley east 0870 990 6546

[jeanyqua]

Gainsborough lodge 4****
Single room available 0.9 miles from airport. £39.00
Tel..+44 (0) 1293 783 982
1 x single room left.

[jeanyqua]

The lawn guesthouse 4****
1 x single room left @ £50.00
1.0 mile from airport.
tel..+44(0) 1293 775751

[El Grifo]

Nothing beats local knowledge :)

She has reached the front of the queue and has been booked on ZB 234 from LTN tomorrow pm

The weather forecast is lousy, Luton has not faired so well over the last 24 hrs as far as I can gather from my little rock in the atlantic.

Anyone able to throw any light on the odds of getting out of LTN tomorrow.

Thanks for your excellent feedback folks. I started off a bit arsey and don't really deserve it.

En Saludos
El Grifo

[jeanyqua]

If you pay for the flight & it doesn't go tomorrow,then you would be entitled to refund anyway.
I hope your daughter is okay.
She must be 2nd in the queue now...?

[jeanyqua]

De nada.
bbc news weather for luton p.m.tues
Tuesday

Any rain, sleet or snow over the east of the region slowly clearing, the day then dry with some bright or sunny spells developing.

Has given clear visibility temp -4 18.00 hrs 94% 988mb

[El Grifo]

Hey, maybe there is a god :ok:

I have always catagorised myself in life as an optimistic pessimist.

The girl is safe and warm in a small hostelry not a stones throw from the terminal del norte and guess what, she has met an old flame from Norway who was travelling here on the same flight.

As the illustrious Zimmerman wrote " brought together by a simple twist of fate"

I'll be buggered !

Thanks all. I will post the good news of the imminent arrival tomorrow.

hasta banana :ok:
El G.

[The late XV105]

EZ from EMA to PRG

Cancelled on Saturday.
Cancelled on Sunday.
Cancelled again today.
Jeez.

Yes, wx probably is at the root (though the cynic in me wants to connect it with the impending base closure and skeleton crewing) but the real irony isn't just that I switched to easyJet after a bad run of cancellations with bmibaby or that I vowed never to fly with the latter again, but I've been rebooked on the latter for my return as it is after easyJet ceased operating from EMA!

To be fair, easyJet staff have handled cancellation far more efficiently and with much more tact than the multiple bmibaby occasions, each done so abruptly and verging on rudeness, but I obviously got unlucky this time; in 12 years of extremely regular Prague travel and 13 likewise to Sweden, I've never had a wx related cancellation from either end of the trip.

[El Grifo]

My daughter is now re-booked on ZB74 out of LTN 14.40

LTN advises to contact airline for updates.

Tried all lines including the 10p per min one (wonder what the international multiplication factor on that will be)

Been calling since 9.00. either engaged, no answer or in the case of the 10 per min line, answer, select option, sorry we are unable to take your call (slick little revenue raiser that one)

So, same crap, different day :bored:

Any pointers anyone ?

[PAXboy]

This may sound defeatist but I think that you have achieved more than most! I doubt that you would learn any more if you were leaning over the MDs desk. It may be tough to sit back and wait but I think you have exhausted the optiuons because no one knows how much longer/worse it's going to be.

The conditions in this corner of the UK (I'm about 20 miles from LTN) are the worst that I have seen in 22 years. I had to make one essential car journey this morning and the roadside was littered with abandoned cars. We have become used to a cold snap of snow for three days and then it's gone. Not this year.

[Diver_Dave]

You may find something here...

SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers (http://saynoto0870.com/)

Regards

DaveA

[purplehelmet]

el grifo

what news from the front?
ltn flight tracker saying zb74 not departed yet at 1530.
have you had any up dates?
good luck:ok:

ph

[10W]

Machine at work showing departure slot of 1718UTC, due in at GCRR/ACE at 2115UTC.

[El Grifo]

Just had a text.

Boarded and "thinks" she is on the move !!!!

Kids !!!

You guys have been brilliant. Thanks a lot.

Watch this space :ok:

Spot on again. Text saying that captain has announced a further delay and hopes to taxi at 17. 15

Getting there slowly :ok:

[El Grifo]

Aircraft now going for de-icing I am advised.
That must be a positive sign one would think.

Daughter is vaguely terrified :confused:

[10W]

New slot of 1810 issued :ok:

[El Grifo]

:ok:Yer making an old man very happy 10W.

If only I could email you a wee Balvenie or similar.

Not to forget the sterling help from the rest of you.

Perhaps a wee Grouse would do the trick for you lads.

Any more suspense and I will be hittin the Meths :}

Incidentally.
LTN departure info still showing

ZB074 Lanzarote 14:40 16:15 Estimated 16:15
Updated at 17.45


All calls direct one to this site :ugh:



Just had a text "Taxi-ing, see you in 4" :D

[jeanyqua]

Yayyyyyyyyy !!!!
Happy christmas :)

[El Grifo]

Thanks All.

It's nice to know that I have some virtual friends.

Happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you and yours.

El Grifo

[purplehelmet]

el grifo.
zb74 at 1830 gmt.
speed 440mph
alt 18,000ft
hoorahh!:D happy xmas mate dont worry bout us lot left trudging though the snow:ok:best wishes ph.

[El Grifo]

Well with weather conditions like that, I wish you good use of the purplehelmet in the days to, eh, come :}

[10W]

Flight just passed the Channel Islands and well on the way ... as long as snow doesn't close the Canaries ;)

[purplehelmet]

ho ho ho! im sure ms ph can put it to good use some where warm:ok:

[TightSlot]

So... That's our 'good' christmas story for this year then.

Congratulations El Grifo and enjoy your family!

[El Grifo]

Thanks again folks !

Headin up to the aeropuerto in 30 mins to collect the little lady.

I will have a happy little Pprunerism to relate to her.

Nice one :ok:

[PAXboy]

Some folks might think a precedent has been set!! But I join with TS that it's a happy story that you can tell your grandchildren (don't panic!) at some time in the future. ;)

[El Grifo]

Well my one is here safe and sound with a few tales to tell.

En Saludos
El G.

[El Grifo]

Thanks again everyone for your sterlng assistance yesterday.

Just in case you might have thought my daughter was a vulnerable little teenager, who needed mollycoddled at every turn, it is only fair that you catch sight of who you helped.

Having said that, I reckon most fathers are overprotective towards their daughters regardles of age.

Here she is in the middle, with some of her workmates on a night out.

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad253/crapestnamever/for%20internet/JemsPprune.jpg

[Rusland 17]

Just in case you might have thought my daughter was a vulnerable little teenager, who needed mollycoddled at every turn...I can't imagine how anyone could have got that impression... :)

[El Grifo]

Taken the spirit of the season !

A very Merry Christmas to you, young Rusland.

[kingston_toon]

As a very nice 31 year old Scottish guy now living in London, I have to ask...

Is she single? :)

[Mr Angry from Purley]

EI GRIFO
Great news. I would note also that you can take comfort that Monarch got your daughter there in the end. Had it been ESY or FR the flight would have been cancelled and they wouldnt give a toss!! .Charter airlines will get u there in the end!!!

[El Grifo]

That my dear angry, is an undeniable fact. Well done Monarch !!

As for you Kingston, ye scunner, this is proon, no a cheap datin agency likesay.

Send a photie and she will tell you if she is single or no :}

[ulxima]

Just had a text "Taxi-ing, see you in 4"


ok, so it is definitely safe to operate a mobile while a bird is taxi-ing....uh?
:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Ulxima

[El Grifo]

Yerah I suppose I should have completeed the story for you laddie.
Its true, you probably read it in the press.

During the text, the nosewheel steering mechanism of the jet was affected by the transmissions from her mobile, the aircraft swerved hard right into the fuel storage area. The aircraft and the stotrage tanks erupted in a ball of fllames.
At that time Santa claus was flying over at 500AGL and was caught in the fireball.

That is why you did not get any presents this year saddo.

And you thought it was because nobody loved you :(

[Atishoo]

HAHAHA. This thread was very amusing to read. Although probably frustrating for you and your Daughter. Thanks for the laughs, and HNY:)