Luton shambolic yesterday

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Managed to get in, but after a 7hr flight quite pleased to land.

Question: How much snow does it take to close an airport: Answer: not a lot.

Spoke to Biggin en route to ABBOT, they were ops normal, and willing to take us, on a fully swept runway, clear taxi way, plus apron space.
If asked might even had hangerage.

Thank you Biggin Hill.

glf

[flyingmasai]

I manage to get in Luton yesterday after they ban bizjet in. The only reason for the ban was the airport did not clean the ramp for non commercial aircraft.
Should the handling companies be equipped to clear their own ramp or the airport is liable for it?
I had no problem landing anywhere else that same day, only Luton was a problem, and it was not related to the runway or the traffic, just the ramp.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

A pair of bob cats, with the right fittings on front end is all that is needed.

The airport was closed over the night, and I suspect will be again tonight.

Hope I can get out tomorrow.

glf

[Arkwright]

Yes, yesterday certainly wasn't their finest hour. Not helped by the airport being unwilling to clear a strip to get from 58 onto the taxyway, then ATC refusing to allow us to taxy over it! Probably Elf & Safety regulations......

Honestly, they really need to take a look at some european operations...I know they are geared up only for commercial airlines, but what the hell do they think bizjets taxy on in Samedan, Moscow and the like?

Then the tankers were unwilling to drive over the snow.........

I arrived at 0615, and finally departed at 1420!

And all this on a beautiful CAVOK day, blue skies and probably 50 mile vis!!!

[off watch]

I could be totally wrong, but if Luton operates on a public use licence, should they not have to accept all traffic "on equal terms & conditions" even if it means putting exec jets on airline stands ?

[Der_Fischmeister]

Had to fly as A PAx yesterday for a Course in UK...so we sit in the BA Airbus in EDDS ,suddenly Captain told us well 4 1/2 hours delay due to snow ....

Arriving in LHR ,well ,thats a joke ,not even 0,5 cm snow ,all Streets M! etc clear ,but Airport dsuffered severe delays.

Managed it to come on time ,after course back to LHR ,to get told Flight to EDDS delayed by 5 hrs.
Aft 5 hrs flight cancelled ,Big Chaos ,Thousands of Passengers not informed what hapening ,Screaming at customer relations,uninformed Desk managers.
Was told at 1 30 in the morning they will try to get me on Zürich aircraft tomorrow ,got Hotel 1 Star Indian lodge about 25 minutes from Airport ,got ripped off by Cab driver and had for dinner 2 Guiness.

Arrived in the morning after 3 hours "Curry -dreams " at LHR to be told to wait in Area D and E of T 5...if i would have been calm and waited i would never had known that i was confirmed for a flight to Zürich ....

Arriing in Zürich ..flight to EDDS cancelled..so Rental car (Expensive) ...

Hopefully will get all reimbursed ...its a shame what BA dif yesterday ....

Lot to do ,honestly ......

it´s THE Fischmeister!!!!

[lanef300]

You should see in France...
The DGAC actually asked the companies to cancel 40% of their flights from Roissy CDG till Sun. 15.00.
Le Figaro - Flash actu : 40% de vols annulés à Roissy demain (http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2009/12/19/01011-20091219FILWWW00702-40-de-vols-annules-a-roissy-demain.php)

Because of ' snow, ice, x-wind and quite low temperatures.'

I can't believe it, having such incapable people! I flew 2 years in Canada, in Winnipeg actually...And a bit of snow, or -3 were NEVER such a problem!

What about Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, etc....

ps: plus, who could have predicted some snow in December, doh:ugh:

[Gulfstreamaviator]

On the wrong sort of taxiway, at the wrong time of the year.....

But at the end of the day...it all boils down to money.

No mince pies at Signature Luton.....now that is discusting...I shall complain.

glf

[CE550B]

Managed to get stuck in LeBourget for 2 days. No de-ice fluid for the whole weekend!! Just 2 trucks for the whole airport and when they're empty they need to warmup for 7(!) hours. :eek:

Talking about being unprepaired!

[ab33t]

I must say I was in Belfast and then on to Brize and we were concerned , no mince pies at Brize and we had to deice by hand , who can I complain to ..

[727 exec]

No mince pies...a hanging offence!!!!!!!!!

Before you award Biggin on the Bump with any award, consider my experience on the 20th December...here goes...

We were all expecting snow - I spoke with people at Biggin on Saturday who assured me that they were ready to deal with it and that operations shouldn't be affected. To be completely fair to Biggin, they had a man ploughing from 0100 onwards on Sunday morning to keep up with the snow...excellent thinks I, and loads up his passengers ready for the word from the Tower that they were open and then we were ready to go...Winter hols...yippeeeeeee!!

NO...the man said it was ploughed but the anti icing hadn't worked and it was 90% ice...they were hoping that the sun (-3c by the way) would work its magic, and standby. Stood/Sat/Lounged by and nothing positive occuring. Biggin operates an anti icing policy...this is supposed to stop the ice from forming as opposed to de-icing any accumulated ice.

Embarrasing to say the very least. Braking action reported as poor - although this seems to be done by ATC/Fire people testing the brakes of their vehicles.

At std + 4 hours, ground ops manager arrives on his day off (no - he's not related to me!!!), and has another go with the anti-ice which finally (helped by the sun) begins to work. He uses his knowledge of braking action (and the input of some Bizjet pilots) to declare it a go, go, GO!! (sorry Murray Walker...). Big 'thank you' to Barry for all his efforts.

STD + 5.5 hours...airborne.

I know that NetJets had to cancel a G550 that was going to Dubai from Biggin (don't suppose they were impressed) and I almost had to charter from Farnborough (they were operating ok) to get my passengers away.

I know Biggin is higher than Farnborough, but not having any form of de-icing seems to be much, much worse than no mince pies.

Poor, poor, poor - that was the scoring of the panel on the performance of Biggin Hill Airport...my Owner's thoughts are unprintable.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Thank you for your understanding re mince pies.

Knowing your pax, I am surprised that they actually noticed the delay.

I would kill for a return trip to Dubai, I arrived in a short sleeve shirt, and no thermals knickers, for a 2 hour turn round.

Do Net Jets need an SNU, I will supply the brandy butter.

Happy Xmas to us all.

glf

[mad_jock]

He uses his knowledge of braking action (and the input of some Bizjet pilots)

Ah the old if the car doesn't skid when you stop in the middle of the runway and you don't slip on your arse with leather soles on its medium/poor. For departing traffic only. ;)

[727 exec]

GLF,

Ice cream with your Mince Pies???

Merry Chrimble...Ho, Ho, Ho!!!

727

[JetPark]

The Signature guys really got their act together last night. They worked through the night to clear their stands and this morning all looked to be much more organised than was the case yesterday. Good job! They even had their GM out there with a shovel this morning!

[Gulfstreamaviator]

thats all I have to say...but plenty of ice cream....

glf

[coolbeans]

NO...the man said it was ploughed but the anti icing hadn't worked and it was 90% ice...they were hoping that the sun (-3c by the way) would work its magic, and standby. Stood/Sat/Lounged by and nothing positive occuring. Biggin operates an anti icing policy...this is supposed to stop the ice from forming as opposed to de-icing any accumulated ice.

To be fair anti-icing does usually work.

Embarrasing to say the very least. Braking action reported as poor - although this seems to be done by ATC/Fire people testing the brakes of their vehicles

Its a bit more technical than that, we see how many times the car will spin when we apply the handbrake

0 - Medium
1- medium/poor
2-poor
3-Biggin on Sunday

[Red Four]

Seem to have run out of de-icing fluid at Biggin today.

[x933]

This morning was a pain in the arse, some trips looking to go out early doors were cancelled because of an icy runway...

[coolbeans]

Seem to have run out of de-icing fluid at Biggin today.

Cant imagine why :)

Thank god I'm on holiday:ok:

[Vino Collapso]

Hands up all those who have had to drive snow ploughs, de-ice runways etc whilst a load of pilots sit there moaning that they can not get their VIP's away. Despite the fact that all the major airports with virtually limitless budgets also closed due to snow.

Lets think back..the last snowfall in the UK was in February 2009. Now ten months later we have some more. There may not be another deposit this winter. If this was Canada I would expect a better snow clearance response. But it is not and the huge expense of maintaining a dedicated snow team would never be recovered by the periodic movements of a few execs. Meanwhile the few staff available started work on Thursday evening and have been on call ever since.

By the way 727exec...loved the glitter in your hair at the wine auction. :eek:

[Phil Brockwell]

Been in and out of Luton a few times in the last couple of days, the usual excellent service from Ocean Sky

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I have tried to push OS to my owners and I know the company very well, from a previous life.

BUT what is the USP that I can put forward to ensure my owner gets better service, and at a lower cost.

Do they have mince pies......????????????????

Is a Gulfstream honour bound to go to SIG.????

Phil your input please.

glf

[LTNman]

Do any FPO’s own their own de-icings rigs at Luton? The biz jets always seem to be last in the pecking order when it comes to de-icing, which results in much gnashing of teeth from the flight crews.

[Phil Brockwell]

glf,

We've traditionally used Signature with no major qualms, 2 main beefs were the excessive OOH charges and the poor accounting (invoices wrong, not knowing if we were on account or not etc) have cost a fair bit in administrating them.

As with all these things it's all about their staff. OS have bent over backwards to help make everything go smoothly, it would appear that they really care if they do a good job or not.

I think every FBO (and operator) should be made to recite the lyrics to Van The Man's "Days like these" every morning - I'm sure that song was written about the Private Aviation business.

PB

[GULF69]

LTNman,

Yes Signature have their own de-icing rigs

69

[LTNman]

So it was the crews being handled by Harrods and Ocean who were moaning yesterday about extended delays then?

[Daifly]

"A spokesman at Domodedovo airport in Moscow, looking at the problems at Gatwick, explained sardonically: “Winters tend to happen every year so we can usually predict when they start and therefore prepare ourselves.”

[727 exec]

Have to applaud the skeleton staff at Harrods Luton for their efforts on the 26th when we had an urgent unexpected trip...they handled the arrival very well considering that they still had snow on the ramp and not enough bodies to deal with the traffic...well done!! They might win my Luton business.

My esteemed friend, Mr V. Collapso, is completely correct that us pilots do complain from the relative comfort of a nice, warm FBO with a mug of tea in hand...I have tried to thank the guys and girls who worked very hard to keep Biggin functioning.

Big problem now is that my Owner wants me to move the plane to an airport that is 'better' - especially after a significant delay on the 27th caused by issues with fuel...

ps VC - I can give you the contact details of my hairdresser!!!!!!!!!!!

pps Maybe I shouldn't have wished for a White Christmas.............:hmm:

[Gulfstreamaviator]

move to DXB, and suffer in silence.

happy new year to all in BIG, LTN FAB etc, etc.

glf

[Vino Collapso]

Big problem now is that my Owner wants me to move the plane to an airport that is 'better' - especially after a significant delay on the 27th caused by issues with fuel...


Problems with day to day issues such as fuel (or parking more than 100 metres from the terminal :rolleyes:), should not occur and must be highlighted to the management. If BQH want to show above the ranks of the competition then they have got to get the basics correct.

Acts of God such as snow, fog etc have to be accepted as a risk.

Knowing your 'owners' history I would be surprised if they really want to move base. They still have connections that could afford future facilities at BQH. I cannot see them driving up the M1 to LTN just to get an H24 service. More like a temper tantrum, which tends to run in the family.

p.s. I have used the same hairdresser for 25 years and they have never offered me sparkles in the hair at Christmas.