Flyglobespan into administration

[BOAC]

Returning to Allbury for a moment, they and Libra are/were associated and I believe Libra got involved with Helios? Was there not some story of Cypriot involvement in the 'rescue' of GS? Was there any Cypriot involvement in E-Clear? Are we into a 'circles within circles' story?

EDIT: Just done a spot of not-to-difficult Googling and yes, it is all spinning nicely. Put together from various sources:

Elias Elia, CEO of E-Clear, is connected with Cyprus. Halcyon Investments (Cypriot) with whom GS were 'in discussion' (via a C Islands office) on re-financing has Elia as its major 'investor'. Anyone smell anything?

I'll go on while I have the floor: Allbury Travel is a subsidiary of Allbury (registered in the Virgin Islands) who's 'controlling interest' is reported to be - wait for it - Elias Elia.

An item in 'Scotland on Sunday' says that E-Clear has "been involved in travel trade collapses before". It is reported to have brought down SkyEurope, XL and Zoom (as reported on PPRUNE somewhere). A 'failed' rescue deal for XL Leisure was led by - go on, have a guess......................

Makes you wonder, does it not?

Now for a bit of spicing up, courtesy of 'Scotland on Sunday' - Osama Bin Laden used Greek Cyprus "as a transit point of exports in order to finance his terrorist activities. He has bank accounts in Nicosia in order to finance several terrorist activities."

Ooh! More to fall out yet?

So many poor folk losing jobs because of all this. My heart goes out to you all.

EDIT 2: Better and better! Viking has offices in Greece - Athens and Heraklion and rose from the 'ashes' of 'Kiss' which rose from the ashes of ..............................XL: and uses some of their management and aircraft reportedly. Viking now has a managing director of Cyprus-specialist Sunvil Holidays as a chairman (non-exec).

Also an Icelandic franchise of Phil Wyatt’s venture, BlacK Pearl Investments, hasa 50% stake in Viking. Murky waters.

There is a previous thread here (http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/360356-viking-airlines-7.html) about Viking. looking now to see where Elia fits into Viking..........................

One would hope that TD had looked into the murky waters at some point earlier?

[Charley B]

I am sure that I read something a few years ago, that Libra holidays owned a share in XL airways(XL used to do a lot of their flights)
They may have sold the share when they became involved with Helios.

[Cymmon]

Is this of interest?


Sunvil boss to head Wyatt-backed Viking UK

Thursday, October 22, 2009

Chris Gray ([email protected])


Noel Josephides is set to head a new UK offshoot of Viking Airlines, the Sweden-based carrier with links to the failed XL Leisure Group (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=2851230&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=2851230&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=2851230&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=2851230&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=2851230&articleTitle=CAA%20reveals%20extent%20of%20XL%20collapse%20d amage&fromSearch=yes).

The Sunvil managing director, Abta board member and Aito director will be non-executive chairman of Viking Airlines UK if it is granted an air operator’s certificate by the CAA.

The non-exec role will not affect his position at Sunvil.

The move will be seen as controversial because former XL chief executive Phil Wyatt controls about 40% of Viking Airlines through his investment vehicle, Black Pearl Investments.

Josephides said Wyatt would have no direct involvement in Viking UK and the new airline was needed to provide capacity for small operators that have struggled to access seats on Tui, Thomas Cook and Monarch flights.

“There are a lot of people who are not going to like it but this is a benefit for the independent tour operator. It’s important we have an independent carrier,” he said.

Josephides was highly critical of the XL group after its collapse in 2008, but in May he praised Viking as the “saviour” of small operators.

“I lost £100,000 on XL but by flying with Viking this summer I have saved myself £200,000 on rates quoted by other airlines,” he said. “This will save independent tour operators money.”

Viking has previously attracted complaints about quality of service (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=2191422&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=2191422&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=2191422&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=2191422&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=2191422&articleTitle=Viking%20Airlines%20responds%20to%20agent%20cri tics&fromSearch=yes), but Josephides said he would ensure it was a “Rolls-Royce” service. “I am not about to do anything that would compromise my reputation,” he said.

The new airline plans to operate a fleet of up to five 189-seat Boeing 737-800s to mid-haul destinations such as Egypt and Turkey, as well as Greece and the Canary Islands.

Viking operates under a Swedish operating licence and needs the CAA certificate to fly from the UK to more EU destinations.

Josephides said the licence application was likely to be submitted within three weeks and the airline should be operating by next spring.

Last year Josephides was involved in an unsuccessful attempt to set up a similar operation, code-named Project James (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=1443483&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=1443483&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=1443483&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=1443483&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=1443483&articleTitle=Project%20James%20and%20Kiss%20Flights:%20airli ft%20rescue%20or%20more%20risk?&fromSearch=yes), with former Zoom UK boss Jonathan Hinkles, which many operators hoped would rival Viking.

• Josephides to chair The Travel Foundation (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=2982996&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=2982996&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=2982996&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=2982996&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=2982996&articleTitle=Josephides%20to%20chair%20The%20Travel%20Founda tion&fromSearch=yes) (15 Sep 2009)
• Viking hailed as operators' lifeline (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=2492544&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=2492544&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=2492544&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=2492544&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=2492544&articleTitle=Viking%20hailed%20as%20operators'%20lifeline&fromSearch=yes) (21 May 2009)

Or has it been covered?

[Farrell]

Greece: Isn't that the country that's just about to go to the wall?

Private pockets being lined all over the place right now....something huge is about to happen.

[Dreamshiner]

Just received this by email, looks like they are bringing them home.

"Direct Personnel are currently looking for a crew to Ferry a B767 aircraft ASAP. You must hold a JAA Licence and also a Saudi Visa. There are no exceptions to this and you must already be in possession of this visa as there is no time to apply for this."

[penelope]

Perhaps the directors of ALL the affected airlines would not want the e-clear money to be paid?
once its been paid to the receivers its gone for good? interesting to see who are the shareholders in this company?
Who knows some names may re-appear or off shore interests in e-clear are in place, difficult to track.
Coincidence? i dont think so!!!
Penny

[Skipness One Echo]

The MOD should have given more work to 'their own' and who knows what might have been.

The RAF has massive over stretch and maintenance issues on the VC10 and TriStar fleets. Given the long delays on the new A330s they have little choice but to use a commercial carrier.

[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]

I ment a British carrier.

[UFGBOY]

Only people who can have Saudi visa are those who have worked for Saudia; otherwise your pasport is surrendered when you enter the Kingdom ...

Best people to do that will be (ironically) those that have lost their jobs with GSM...

[EY763ER]

The GSM ex 767's will not be in the lease market for long.

infact, as rumour has it, a couple have already been taken for lease, but the question is:

does anyone know who this could be??

[3bars]

Jet2.Com
:E

[BOAC]

mach79 - you are correct - I should have said that I believe the expansion of Viking ('Hellas', 2009) arose from the XL/Kiss collapse. I think Viking have been on the go since around 2003 in Scandiland. It is the 'Greek' connection that is just a little suspicious - just look at Mr Wyatt and family and BPI, not to mention Mr Elia who appears to be 'unavailable' for interview.

There appears to be significant interweave in all of this. Lots of 'arms length' involvement quoted! The TTG had this to say in March, concerning another new travel venture:

"the new operation was working with a number of airline partners, including seat-only operator Kiss Flights, the trading name of Viking’s UK broker Meridian Aviation before it was sold to Flight Options. Kiss Flights was set up by former bosses of XL’s Freedom Flights."

It's the old - "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.........."

It remains a tragedy, whatever the GS management failings, that so many employees have lost jobs in various airlines through dubious dealings. There is of course no proof of 'dodgy dealings' yet, but one hopes that someone somewhere is going to poke the muddy bottom of this pond.

[WHBM]

Notable that there is press discussion of E-Clear themselves "facing failure", and that Flyglobespan had formally placed a Winding-Up order on them. This will presumably now be taken forward to the courts by the receivers.

Flyglobespan files petition against E-Clear - Business News, Business - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/flyglobespan-files-petition-against-eclear-1845585.html)

where has all the money gone ...... ? Just before Christmas is usually a high time for airline cash funds - it then all goes in the weeks ahead as operations continue but forward bookings reduce.

[Cyrano]

Interesting Anna.aero article (http://www.anna.aero/2009/12/18/scotlands-own-lcc-flyglobespan-stops-flying-over-110-routes-tried-since-april-2003/) including a list of all the different route strategies GSM tried in recent years...

[Hombre]

Latest seems to be that the GSM Administrators have demanded that E-Clear put the whole £35M into a joint account now, to show good faith as they try and unscramble the flow of credit card monies and reasons for E-Clear keeping at least £20M which was rightly GSM's regardless how you look at it

[Voetsak]

Interesting question, especially seeing how E-Clear's parent company is registered in the BVI. Isn't there a luxury yacht parked down there, in the vicinity?

It will also be interesting to see where a certain Ground Handler, based in BHX, winds up, now that his sugar daddy no longer has a job at FGS...

[inspecther gadget]

So Halycon and E-Clear are one and the same! I hope there will be a criminal investigation into this sorry mess:ugh:

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Shouldn't Globespans money be held in an escrow account by E Clear anyway?

I mean, they might be processing payments for a third party, but it's still Globespans money, not theirs.

[GS John]

I'd say that the money is the ex-employees, not anybody elses.

I wonder if TD etc has applied for jobseekers allowance yet?

[penelope]

Rest assured these guys will milk the receivership for every penny in available funds>
they have been the undertakers of at least 20 airlines in the last 10 years,
and can make the receivership last a very long time.
the longer it lasts the more they get, even before the staff.

It would be interesing to see if their "professional" fees come out at less than one million when this is all over.

Penny

[Gee08]

Alba will operate as normal atleast until new year there is 4 interested parties for buying them. Ground 1 Menzies is the worlds most profitable ground handling agent so how can the not have money? there just holding back on money like every other company as this is not the right moment to spend money. Alba at GLA may still be saved good luck to them hopefully the right owners will come along and lead them in right direction.

[DAVYDAY]

Alba-GLA, have been taken over by Menzies all legalities to be sorted early new year.(TUPE)
Good luck to all .

[glasgow]

Well Davyday if that is true Alba staff better start looking for employment right away there is no way Menzies will (employ) after TUPE the best Groundhandling staff at GLA. Because all that will do is show how incompetent their present staff are and I am sure the Managers based at GLA will not want any of there regional managers to see how the job should be done effectively. Further more Alba staff have to hold their heads up because they have done a fantastic job right up to and after Flyglobespan collapsed. They all (and i mean everyone) turned up the following day to attended to any passenegers who thought the worst thing in the world had just happened to them, ha!!! all that happened was that they lost a holiday. In actual fact the worst thing to happened was to the staff at EDI, after they dealt with the passengers the Administrators told them to go home and they never even got paid for any shifts they done in December (no Christmas pay). To finish off I would like to wish all ex and present staff of Alba ground handling A merry christmas and a happy new year. Good Luck:D:D:D:D:D:D

[edilpa]

i wish gla alba all the best even if menzies GLA have them bought over, i worked with alba GLA, and they like EDI are dedicated and will be a asset to anyone. Just a pity EDI could not come as part of the bargain. TEAM EDI all the way.

[ETOPS]

BALPA have started a fund to support former GLobespan pilots who will be suffering financially at this time of year.

Click this link for details and how to donate BALPA - BALPA HARDSHIP FUND - XMAS APPEAL (http://www.balpa.org/News-and-campaigns/News/BALPA-HARDSHIP-FUND---XMAS-APPEAL.aspx)

[Gee08]

Menzies have not taken over ALBA. flybe menzies verbal agreement over contract however alba still stand as a company at the moment therefore that would require 60 day notice period flybe and menzies are awaiting decision as there are 3 interested parties in buying alba including the flounder mr rodden!!!! Menzies are not keen on the amount of staff alba have as its only flybe contract they would be gaining and are not interested in the staff overload. Menzies also do not recognise the alba management roles...menzies do not have a baggage hall manager...menzies do not have leading hands or supervisors the only management role menzies recognise and would be required is 3 assistant shift managers which alba do not have. if it goes menzies way at the end then it would not surprise me if menzies only toupe the staff alba toupe'd from servisair.:ugh::ugh::ugh:NOBODY WILL KNOW WHATS HAPPENING UNTIL IT HAPPENS

[mary_hinge]

Derek Tullett, the City financier and Labour donor, and Sir Edward du Cann, the former Tory party grandee, sit on the advisory board of E-Clear, the card payment company run by Elias Elia, a Cypriot businessman. E-Clear has been accused of withholding money from the airline, precipitating its failure.

City bigwigs Derek Tullett and Sir Edward du Cann dragged into Flyglobespan row - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article6968478.ece)

[Little Blue]

Grubbier and grubbier......I wish we REALLY knew the GSM hierachy's involvement in this sad, sordid affair.
Maybe one day soon...............

[ETOPS]

In order to get the money to the ex-GSM pilots, the hardship fund will be closed and then distributed at the start of January.

Even though donations are coming in I wonder if I could make a final plea to those who might still want to donate to do so as soon as possible.

Quickest way is via electronic bank transfer - if you have an internet account it takes afew seconds. Details on the website - please follow the link on my previous post.

Many Thanks.

[EuroChallenger]

Hello

The one thing I do not understand, is why E Clear is involved in card payments?

My mate has her own business and card payments go from the terminal in her shop direct to her bank.

Why is there a "middle man" as it appears?

[Jonny-no-stars]

Euro

Probably because she provides the goods or service for which she charges in a reasonably short time scale - thus limiting the Credit Card Company's exposure. With an Airline the flight could be upto a year in the future so you can see why the Credit Companies don't want to be "on risk" for 000,000's of pounds worth of exposure for such long periods. The cash is released to the Airline as "flown revenue" once the flight is operated (contract fulfilled).

That's the theory anyway. What happened with GSM / XL remains to be seen.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Johnny

Well bearing in mind the bast$rd credit card companies keep a fraction (typically 3-5%) of every transaction for themselves anyway (and that's before they charge the customer interest at premium rates) , even though the have done no work, added no value and taken no risk themselves, why should they not pass the money on to the vendor who did do the work, or who has added the value and taken the risk.

Rather than bankrupting them.

Seems to me that if they were holdiong £34m of Globespans money, that they were in rather better shape than the firm that was actually doing the business that they themselves were profiting from.

Parasites!

[sportacus]

Well said GLASGOW:D

[Roadside]

Toupe is actually spelled TUPE for your info there is no contract agreement with Menzies if the deal goes ahead THEY must TUPE all Alba staff what a sight that will be when they all troup in to your rest room you my friend will have some explaining to do after the slagging you have dished out to them so when that day dawns ensure you have plenty toilet roll with you;)and you might find as you put it the flounder mr rodden walking in with them

[kestrel757]

BarbiesBoyfriend

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant. If any airline finance director was currently paying more than 1.25% on credit card transactions he would not be in his job much longer. The credit card companies will finish up paying the cost of refunds to thousands of Globespan customers, so how is there no risk? Current net returns on credit card operations in relation to capital employed are marginal and unprofitable in very many instances where the cardholder pays off their account in full each month. For most airlines credit cards produce instant positive cashflow. The fact that Globespan appear to have put their processing in the hands of a third party is clearly a matter for them.

[spinnaker]

The fact that Globespan appear to have put their processing in the hands of a third party is clearly a matter for them.

Indeed. One has to wonder, if they would have been better off using Paypal

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the value of forward sales were for 2010? Could be that E-Clear didn't hold enough money back. After all, we didn't hear TD scream about them before hand, to the contrary, he wanted to do more business with them. Weird or what.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Kestrel. Thanks for the advice.;)

I realise that the c/card company is exposed, so they keep some back in case of refunds. But 34 milion, ffs!

By keeping so much back they have precipitated exactly the situation (bankruptcy) that triggers the refunds.

By all means give E-clear the benefit of the doubt if you wish.

They sound like a right bunch of :mad: to me. I wonder how this will pan out. My guess is that when the dust settles, E-Clear will not arise smelling of roses.

[kestrel757]

Barbies B

I am certainly not giving E-Clear "the benefit of any doubt". My comments were simply made in answer to you comment that suggested you thought ALL credit card companies were greedy bast$rds and quoting misleading margins well above what most airlines actually pay. It remains to be seen why Globespan chose to use an intermediary provider like E-Clear rather than one of the mainstream card processors.

When it comes to greed with credit card processing it is often the airlines, tour operators or travel agents who charge pax more that it is costing them, far more in some cases such as Ryanair who will typically pay 1% but then charge £5 per passenger, giving them a massive markup on most of their flights.

[Gee08]

ROADSIDE for your info I did not slag alba's employee's. and if you go back and read what I said then YOu will see I've said good luck. The problem is noBODY wants anyone on another companys contract. especially the servisair one where they get time AnD a half for sundays. I look forward to seeing alba employee's walk into menzies office...IF IT HAPPENS


Text speak corrected. No charge.

[DAVYDAY]

GEE08-Menzies have not taken over ALBA..wrong
-------------------------------------------------------
As of midnight tonight 31/12/09..
Alba will not exist all staff at GLA over to Menzies
all Alba GSE will be removed from the ramp only to use Menzies equipment.

Good luck to all.;)

TD will get his day in court for this, for sure.:oh:
no one sells aircraft over a 3 year period and has a track record like him that PWC won`t find out and the press.this was planned.:=

2010 will be a better year.
DD

[fairygodmother]

;)When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,
When the road you're trudging seems all uphill,
When the funds are low and the debts are high,
And you want to smile, but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit-
Rest if you must, but don't you quit.
Life is queer with its twists and turns,
As every one of us sometimes learns,
And many a fellow turns about
When he might have won had he stuck it out.
Don't give up though the pace seems slow -
You may succeed with another blow.
Often the goal is nearer than
It seems to a faint and faltering man;
Often the struggler has given up
When he might have captured the victor's cup;
And he learned too late when the night came down,
How close he was to the golden crown.
Success is failure turned inside out -
The silver tint in the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It might be near when it seems afar;
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit -
It's when things seem worst that you must not quit.;)

[Little Blue]

Thanks ..........
I shall heed those words, as I know the rest of the Globespanners/Alba group will do.
Onwards and Upwards....:ok:

[CKT789]

Did GSM still own the 736 that was being operated by Midwest Airlines in Egypt? If so, does anyone know if it is still operating for them as it was Midwest's only operational aircraft.

[Little Blue]

Well, it was still on the Ops Board, so I presume so.

[sportacus]

DD, I believe u advised me that you were quietly confident in re taking the Alba group, have you just lost your confidence or are you now just going to be quiet???:*

[DAVYDAY]

sportacus-I`ve never been involved but I know the couple that have .
I post what is fact.

yes they did try to bid for ex-Alba staff and equipment and anyone involved will confirm they gave best shot ,however,powers that be (airlines and PWC) awarded Menzies.

They know and have friends in both Menzies and of course ex-Alba staff and wish them both the best.

People get confused that I (DD) was someone from Alba.
I have very good friends as I said and I am sure they will surface in 2010.

Alba no longer exists they along with GSM went bust on DEC 16th 2009.

my interest is to ensure people get the correct info and the real reasons behind why this sorry state happened.

Press information released 7 weeks ago, even on this site which people denied, and also documentation of false records will show who was to blame and over a 3 year period what shody practices were used to keep GSM lasting so long.and destroying peoples jobs and lively hoods.
This will not go away and a full investigation has started.(more later)

GSM and Alba staff should know the truth and it will be told.As will the public.

I was banned a few times in 2009. I agree I maybe said to much but it has came true and even the moderators can see that what I was saying ,maybe too strongly at the time, has unfortunatley came true.

My wish for 2010 is that all crew and staff have a great year ahead
Also those that were behind the claps of both companies pay the price.

The Aviation Industry does Not need these people.

Cheers and a great 2010 to all that realy care.
DD

[Gee08]

I think DavyDay deserves a thanks for the correct info he's gave.

:ok:

[Little Blue]

Yep, I fully agree.
I admit that I doubted so much of what he was trying to say/do.
But, from what I've learnt since, he was pretty much spot on with everything.
The truth will out...but will that pay us our missing wages??
Back to work on tuesday, so will prob see a lot of you in EDI !! Not that I know who you are !! U can't miss my head, though !

[touch&go]

Looks like E-Clear aren't playing ball, were has the money gone is the big question?

BBC News - FlyGlobespan cash recovery move (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8440131.stm)

[El Grifo]

Here's TTG's take.

E-Clear 'holding on to £35m' - Travel Trade Gazette (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=3532391&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=3532391&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=3532391&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=3532391&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=3532391&articleTitle=E-Clear%20'holding%20on%20to%20%A335m')

[Runway 31]

2 ex Globespan aircraft have departed Edinburgh and 1 from Glasgow this afternoon en-route Belgrade.

[inspecther gadget]

From the Scotsman

On 29 September, a CAA risk analyst, Paul Wilson, told Globespan: "In the light of the current and forecast liquidity, the CAA is of the opinion that Globespan is unable to meet its obligations under the relevant legislation unless there is a significant investment in the near future.

"To date we have refrained from taking regulatory action as we have taken comfort that the company is actively engaged in procuring an investment with the aim of securing the company's long-term future. However, in order to continue this stance the CAA needs evidence from the investor that the fundraising process will be completed with a short timeframe."

[Cluster Bomb]

Have all the Globespan aircraft left Edinburgh airport then?
What has become of BCT at Edinburgh?

[cabot]

GMSJF 737 based at EDI has been flown EDI to Belgrade 04 january
GSEFC 737 in Southend has been flown to Belgrade 04 January
GDLCH/ GSAAW 737 flown from GLA to Belgrade 04 January
GSPNA 767 flown from Shannon to Belgrade 04 January
Still waiting to find other information about other aircraft movements.
I see that they had 2 787's on order which are obviously not going to be fulfilled.I wonder who will get/ have been given their production slots as they were one of the first to order

[GLGNDB]

The 787 production line slots will remain with ILFC.

[Telstar]

Why are the aircraft being sent to Belgrade? Silly question but just curious.

[CabinCrewe]

Why are the aircraft being sent to Belgrade? Silly question but just curious
Presumably for J.A.T

[GLGNDB]

More likely where the leasing company could get space at an MRO at short notice.

[GS John]

Nice to see a UK operator is in the running to carry out the Falklands Airbridge if this is to be believed :rolleyes:

Air Tahiti confirms MOD contract for Falklands’ airbridge — MercoPress (http://en.mercopress.com/2010/01/06/air-tahiti-confirms-mod-contract-for-falklands-airbridge)

Can't be that busy in their area if they have so many planes available.

[OltonPete]

Not what I expected to see at 4.15 on a January's evening whilst travelling from Coventry to BHX on the train!

Not that it could be identified as Air Tahiti in the darkening skies but yes
an Air Tahiti A343 diverting to BHX from Brize Norton inbound from Ascension.

I suppose the MOD had to act quickly and certainly made it quite a day
at BHX with Mexicana and others.

Pete

[fairygodmother]

I would like to personally thank K.M. for everything he has done to help myself and all the ex staff of Alba at Glasgow and Edinburgh from day one especially when T.D. muscled in :ugh:, I know the work you done to protected your workforce. Today is a very sad day when the powers that be make discisions out with our control but that is their loss. I know you are better than them and will return better and stronger. Always remember the dish that is best served cold!!!! I will be watching out for you ALBA LOYAL :ok:

[El Grifo]

Todays TTG

TTG understands that police have been in contact with sources close to the investigation into the collapse of Globespan.

There is no suggestion of a formal police investigation but officers are understood to have approached at least two people close to the situation.

It comes as Globespan administrators took legal action against Globespan’s credit card payment processing firm E-Clear, which could force the company into administration within weeks.

PricewaterhouseCoopers filed a winding-up petition this week as a means of forcing E-Clear to disclose if it has £35 million of customer payments that the administrators believe it was withholding from Globespan when the airline went bust before Christmas.

PwC has said it believes the £35 million, understood to include about £20 million from customers who had already flown, is “excessive”.

It asked E-Clear to place the £35 million into a joint account before Christmas but the money was not transferred, which led to attacks on the company by Scottish politicians angry at the loss of jobs through the failure of Globespan.

E-Clear chief executive Elias Elia this week hit back at claims that his company’s withholding of the funds was behind the collapse of Globespan.

He said the money held was from customers who were entitled to refunds if they were not satisfied with the service provided by Globespan, for example if flights were not taken because the airline went bust.

Elia said Flyglobespan wanted the money in advance, which would have left his firm exposed if there were claims from credit card holders.

E-Clear also issued a statement saying it was committed to cooperating with the administrators.

The company is also facing a claim for millions of euros from Slovak authorities winding up SkyEurope, which collapsed last August.

A third claim for about £300,000 has also reportedly been made by Canadian travel group Go Travel Direct for overdue payments.

E-Clear was contacted for a comment by TTG on Wednesday, but did not respond.

[greatoaks]

Anyone know if Paddy Power are taking bets on a certain cc processing company being wound-up and individuals legging it to Cyprus with the spoils.

Its high-time our p£ss weak legal system got to grips with these modern-day highwaymen.

P.S Whats the weather like, El Grifo ?
Am over in ACE in 8 weeks

[El Grifo]

Eh, Beach Weather :ok:

if it's a beer you fancy give me a shout.

El G.

[greatoaks]

cheers for that

[mustpost]

In the interests of keeping an eye on the ball, some of the detail here (if true) is interesting...
BBC - Douglas Fraser's Ledger: Globespan questions spread their wings (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/douglasfraser/2010/01/globespan_questions_spread_the.html)

[ETOPS]

This is good news for a change.


HARDSHIP FUND RAISES £10,000

An impressive £10,000 was donated over the holiday season to the Hardship fund set up for those BALPA members who lost their jobs without compensation when Globespan collapsed.

A very big thank you to everyone who donated. This money will be sent out in the next few days and we are sure will be much appreciated.

[Check Mags On]

Serious Fraud Office looks at E-Clear (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/08/e-clear-and-sfo-inquiries)

Make your own minds up as to what you think, but I say there is no smoke without fire.

[sportacus]

I would also like to personally thank KM for everything he has done for me, Alba survived as long as it did through his hard work and effort, we will see you again KM :)

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Methinks that E-Clear will be found to have been instrumental in the demise of Globespan (and XL).

Crooks.

[GS John]

Things might become clearer on Tuesday:

E-Clear: Court to rule on lost Globespan cash - Business News, Business - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eclear-court-to-rule-on-lost-globespan-cash-1862943.html)

[INKJET]

It would be of interest to learn why Globespan (and XL) used this obscure company for card payments? also does anyone on hear know of other airlines that use or have used E-clear

I think the French bit of XL is still flying? who do they use?

[habs_fan]

Sky Europe used them as did Zoom not sure who's left if anyone

all airline that halyclon have wanted to invest in aswell

[gd44]

It would certainly appear that Elia had quiet a good money making scheme set up here - using E-Clear to process the payments, eventually start witholding the airlines money and then using Halyclon to "invest" in the airline, bailing out at the last second, denying all responsibility (and he would have gotten away with it too - if it wasnt for those pesky kids...)

[touch&go]

My moneys on eclear going to the wall this week, can only fob off PWC and the courts for so long.

[habs_fan]

mines to if i could find somewhere to put a bet on it. could make up my december wage wich i will never see thanks to them.

They currently have at least 3 winding up order in court against them

[GS John]

I wonder if PaddyPower will take bets on them going bust :rolleyes:

[Capetonian]

This does not answer why they held the £35m.


Recession killed Flyglobespan, not me – tycoon

Published Date: 10 January 2010
By David Leask
THE tycoon accused of causing the collapse of Flyglobespan last night came out fighting in a bid to clear his name.
Embattled Elias Elia told Scotland on Sunday that the Scottish airline was the victim of the recession – and not his credit card clearance company E-Clear.

In his first interview since Flyglobespan went into administration before Christmas, leaving 4,500 holidaymakers stranded abroad, the Greek Cypriot businessman admitted his reputation had taken a hammering but insisted his hands were clean.

He has been accused of precipitating the airline's collapse by withholding some £35 million paid by credit card holders for flights and holidays. He said he had to keep the money to protect himself and his firm from future claims by unhappy customers.

Elia said: "Flyglobespan are a victim of the current recession. They were forced to discount the cost of tickets to compete in a market that has been badly hit by the financial meltdown.

"We have suffered because we have lost an important client in Flyglobespan and people are painting us as a reason for the airline's collapse. That creates bad publicity, when our view is we are just doing our job. We feel that is unfair, but it still damages our reputation."

The entrepreneur has kept a low profile since Flyglobespan – and its parent company, respected and long-standing Edinburgh travel group Globespan – went under on 16 December.

The airline and its parent company filed for administration on the day when its civil aviation licence was suspended after a financial rescue deal – in which Elia was involved – fell through.

Former Globespan insiders yesterday insisted that airline executives had been convinced by Elia and others that a rescue was on the cards until the very last minute.

Elia said yesterday: "Flyglobespan was a great airline, loved by the Scottish people, and that's why for more than two years we tried our best to help them in every way we could and recently attempted to bring investors to the table to try to secure its long-term future.

"Right up to its closure we were still trying, but once the Civil Aviation Authority withdrew its licence, it was impossible to continue."

Scotland on Sunday, meanwhile, has seen a due diligence report that appears to have been drawn up on Globespan by accountants advising investors lined up by Elia. It cautions against acquiring the airline and says that the business would need a cash injection of £70m, including the £35m the report confirms was held by E-Clear, to survive until June.

Elia's own holiday company, the Allbury Travel Group, including the famous brand Libra, also went bust at the end of last year. His credit card clearing firm also handled Allbury's payments, as well as those of now defunct airlines XL, Zoom and SkyEurope. Elia is facing at least two sets of litigation as a result of these collapses.

The entrepreneur last night stressed that his firm specialised in handling the payments of struggling companies and it should therefore be no surprise that some of them went out of business.

He said: "We are working in the distressed market. We hold on to the funds until all the charge-back claims are exhausted. The major credit card companies use us as a sort of insurance policy to make sure their customers do not lose money on poor services or those that are not provided.

"In Flyglobespan's case 100,000 people paid for flights they have not taken, according to the records we have."

Globespan itself, however, was far from convinced by that argument in its closing weeks. At the time, it questioned whether E-clear needed to keep all credit card takings for up to six months to cover potential losses.

While waiting for the rescue investment arranged by Elia, Globespan also looked at petitioning a court to wind up E-Clear. The accountants currently acting as administrators for the airline – PricewaterhouseCoopers – are understood to have threatened to continue that action.

E-Clear, meanwhile, is late filing its annual accounts. Elia said yesterday this was not unusual for companies and added: "E-Clear is financially healthy and our stakeholders are behind us."

Flyglobespan directors are unable to comment under the rules governing administration.

Bruce Cartwright, of PricewaterhouseCoopers, said: "If E-Clear are really serious about co-operating with us then they should confirm exactly how much money they are holding from Globespan customers."

A spokesman for Elia yesterday confirmed that the entrepreneur accepted his firm had held £35m of Globespan funds when the airline folded.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

The more we hear about E-Clear, the worse they smell.

[tally ho old chap]

Just heard the news of the demise of Alba what a diasaster for both Gla and Edi having flown in to both stations and been handled by them i can honestly say they were streets ahead of any other Handling Agent not just in Scotland and having met their shall i say straight talking manager he was a character he was called by his nickname KM his real initials hope each and every one gets a job with menzies as they couldent lace Alba boots :ok:

[spinnaker]

Capetonian

Looking at the news stories that came out late last week. Mr Elia seemed very keen to come up with rescue packages for more than just flyglobespan. I wonder where the dosh came from? Three Golden geese were shot from the sky, and suddenly no money!!

[skyman771]

E-Clear, meanwhile, is late filing its annual accounts. Elia said yesterday this was not unusual for companies This dismissive attitude that shows total disregard for UK Law, as well as his & fellow directors obligations, says it all. Having considered this in context than it is fair to say that the full content of Elia's interview should be taken with some cynacism.
and added: "E-Clear is financially healthy and our stakeholders are behind us." Well then prove it !:hmm:

[cabot]

Sound like a right bunch of chancers flouting UK law and openly admitting holding on to £35 milion of GSM cash.Wonder what the political views on this situation is in Downing Street ?

[fairygodmother]

Mmmmm !!!!!I wonder indead what Downing Street would have to say.

Why doesn't everyone voice their opinion, instead of being forgotten or just another statistic and swept under the carpet.

Try this one [email protected]. Go on everyone be heard. Good luck to you all. You deserve it after all your hard work, Alba and Globespan workers. :ok:

[VOM1T]

Just to spell out the position:

(1) Globespan passenger pays for his flight/holiday through E-clear. E-clear pays money to Globespan 90 (?) days later. Financial reconciliation on date of payment.
(2) Globespan goes bust, E Clear responsible for repayment to all customers who paid by c/c (not debit card) who haven't started or completed their return travel. Financial reconciliation on return date of travel.

so..
(1) Appears to be agreed at £35 Million however
(2) is far more difficult to calculate, but provided E clear is holding more than the total amount required to refund all passengers who haven't yet completed their journeys then all affected passengers get all their money back (and then PwC administrators eventually get the balance remaining).

Isn't that what the consumer credit act is written to make sure happens ???

are we seeing E clear as scapegoat when in reality it was company failure due lack of profitable business ??

[habs_fan]

E-clear where and still are keeping the money for upto six months after pax had been on the flights and holiday not 90 day

also a lot of that money is for excess weight and seat sale and checked bag fees made at the airports

[WHBM]

By no means all the monies that go through the card processors are reclaimed in the event of failure. Some (as stated here) are for fees actually collected at the airport. Some are for travel next day (very low risk). Some are never reclaimed as travellers do not know, don't bother, reclaim procedure too convoluted, etc. I would say that between 25 and 50% of credit card turnover is never "chargebacked" in these situations.

I am not quite clear how these amounts refunded or not are reported back to the liquidators. If the card processor gets to keep all the money they have at the time, but only actually refunds a proportion, with the large sums under consideration that's a nice little earner which must make the card processor actually start to hope fror bankruptcy.

Which is I think where we came in .......

[IB4138]

Whilst I smell a rat as to e-clear, there are other similar companies operating in this market of credit card clearing with the travel and other industries with high consumer put through.

They too have some dubious practices, which are dodgy to say the least and in some cases, require the connivance of the user IE: client, which if relevant in this case, would be Globespan.

The area is under regulated and a license to print money.

[VOM1T]

Sorry HABs but my point is that its not 90 days or 180 days after the flight date, the retention period starts from the payment date, regardless of the flight date..

..and as for payment for non- refundable items, it is possible that E clear have a right of offset against monies that they will have already forwarded to Globespan for flights which now won't be performed and will have to refund.

There's two sides to this, its not as simple as is being suggested.

[skyman771]

VOM1T
Whilst I accept your observations as to timing of retention periods, however there would appear to be a more basic issue as to whether E-Clear now have the assets available to repay GSM's administrators.
Lack of clarity in this matter is certainly not helped by the reluctance of E-Clear to publish its accounts albeit that these would only disclose historic data some 9 months out of date, and are may not provide any clear indications that there are funds available & accessible.
Coming from another direction, then surely the settlement with GSM was on a regular cyclical basis whether daily/weekly/monthly and as such then taking 90, 180 days or whatever, then in any specific period there will always be a settlement due placing E-Clear in default if unpaid, albeit not necessarily of anything like the total sum discussed.

[VOM1T]

Points well made, Skyman and here is a well written article which contributes to your argument ,

Travel-payment woes: E-Clear as mud | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15211964)

but if it is an un-disclosed clearing bank that is holding the money, rather than the technical front-man e-clear, I think that the situation is even more complicated than currently being presented.

Is perhaps Mr Elias between a rock (spelt PwC) and a hard place ?

[skyman771]

Thanks VOM1T, very interesting article which upon reading, then one can not fail to have grave concerns insofar as to the recoverability of £35M. In simply extracting info such as So the unprofitable bank is not much use to E-Clear; last year it even had to increase the bank’s capital, putting in €3m (£2.7m). then such sums are unlikely to have come from company profits / accumulated reserves more likely "borrowed" from working capital & unlikely to be recoverable.
No doubt when eventually full information is obtained, then there may be many other such "appropriations":E

[GS John]

And the wrigling continues:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/breaking-edinburgh-news/Flyglobespan-trial-adjourned-for-a.5973893.jp

And a very frightning article in VOM1T's link :(

[El Grifo]

A High Court judge today ordered credit card payment processing company E-Clear to produce evidence that it has up to £35 million that administrators say is owed to failed airline Globespan.

Mr Justice Floyd rejected an application from PricewaterhouseCoopers to wind up E-Clear today, adjourning the hearing until next Tuesday.

But he ordered that E-Clear produce bank statements detailing the extent of funds it holds that were due to Globespan or its customers by noon on Friday.

He also accepted an undertaking offered by the counsel for E-Clear that the company would not pay any money out of its accounts in the meantime.

In making the adjournment and order, Mr Justice Floyd said it was possible that the application for an adjournment “is an attempt to put off the evil day”.
Courtesy TTG

[mary_hinge]

There has been no official confirmation as to whether E-Clear met its noon deadline on Friday to prove it has the £35 million owed to Globespan, but new administrators are understood to have been lined up.

The credit-card processing firm will face a winding up order in the High Court on Tuesday (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2010/01/12/32782/e-clear-given-until-friday-to-prove-it-has-globespan.html)after PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), the administrator for Globespan, claimed it had been unable to verify if E-Clear still had £35 million it owed the Scottish operator.

No comment from E-Clear as £35m deadline passes (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2010/01/18/32823/no-comment-from-e-clear-as-35m-deadline-passes.html)

[san diego]

The only reason any company, travel or otherwise, deals with a business such as this is because no reputable bank is prepared to process credit cards for them. E Clear allegedly not only kept hold of the money for a long time but charged many times more in processing fees than any mainstream bank. It appears they were acting as lenders of last resort, when your credit is poor, you pay a heck of a lot more interest to the doorstep lender, even the legitimate ones, than if you go down to your local High Street branch of HSBC. Once you are caught in the spiral it seems very, very difficult to get out of it and any other business that has been relying on E Clear must now be in grave danger of going the same way

[flybar]

Mr E-Clear made it plain in his interview (reported at #331) that his company only dealt with companies that could be classed as 'struggling'


The entrepreneur last night stressed that his firm specialised in handling the payments of struggling companies and it should therefore be no surprise that some of them went out of business.



Strikes me that Globespan senior management hoodwinked everybody!!

[VOM1T]

"E-Clear enters administration
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Chris Gray

Controversial credit card payment company E-Clear was today placed in administration by order of a high court judge.

Mr Justice Vos made the order after hearing that there was no more than €10 million in E-Clear’s bank accounts according to evidence submitted by its director Elias Elia yesterday.

The court was told that E-Clear owes collapsed airline and operator group Globespan a minimum of £22.5 million and there was little prospect of E-Clear being able to pay its debt.

Mr Vos appointed BDO as administrator"

Oh Dear, if you add the missing Globespan money to the missing SkyEurope funds then I hope that Mr Vos has a lot of noughts on his calculator,,,,,,,,,

[GS John]

E-Clear wound up in High Court (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2010/01/19/32841/e-clear-wound-up-in-high-court-today.html)

Bye bye any money that the employees were owed I'd guess :{

[WHBM]

Lender of last resort or not, this has to be one which needs to be looked at by the police now.

I wonder who E-Clear's auditors were ? Questions for them as well. And Visa/Mastercard, who use Credit Card Processors to facilitate their own business, can answer a few questions as well.

[BarbiesBoyfriend]

Time for Mr Elia to go get a stripey suntan.:E.

Want to play 'mummies and daddies?'

[Cluster Bomb]

If Kiss Flights are to replace Flyglobespan. I would have thought they would set up a base in EDI or does Viking Airlines already have a base at GLA?

[groundbum]

since e-clear's sole role is to accept credit card payments, then VISA and MASTERCARD international must exercise, or be made to exercise a huge amount of oversight of these companies if the whole system isn't to be thrown into chaos. It's very very hard to get a normal merchant account, so to be a third party handing and retaining large sums should be subject to even higher scrutiny.

It's fair enough for the third-party processor to hang onto sums for possible refunds for faulty/non-delivered goods, but there should be fairly clear timetables for releasing the money once the goods are delivered, and also I would have thought all sums should be held in trust accounts, and not just mingled in general company funds. Solicitors and so forth have to have separate client accounts, so why not third party credit card companies?

G

[GS John]

Kiss this. Why isn't this another thread?

[G-AWZK]

Whispers have it that there are connections between Kiss management, former XL and Zoom management. Somewhere in the mix a certain Cypriot company has a finger in the pie too. Is it relevant? Who knows?

If I have understood the situation correctly, Viking (another company with management links to other collapsed airlines) are operating the flights on their AOC and Kiss are nothing more than a ticket seller, for the two months that the services will operate.

[leisurelad]

Viking have been going for many years now and with the major fleet renewal i can only imagine that financially they are healthy.

The connections between management and xl etc are no secret to the industry.

Viking also have a seperate operation called Viking Hellas which is the greek operation based out of Athens and Heraklion i believe. Viking have had a base out of HER since pretty much the beginning.

Kiss Flights, are basically the new Freedom Flights which went down when xl went but they are now in their second year of operation and personally, never had a problem with them, infact, i wish more companies were as nice and accommodating as they are.

So far, so good and i see no reason why Viking / Kiss can't be sucessful here in the UK. They have major contracts with numerous tour operators.

[spinnaker]

Ultimately this has served no purpose for pwc. ie they got no money out of the exercise. I think it was pretty obvious that eclear had no funds. It also comes as no surprise that globespan were using eclear, they had to. Globespan debt was uninsurable for some time before their collapse. It's a red herring to blame ecear were responsible for the airlines collapse, it was in a shocking state anyway. BTW I don't want to give the impression that I am sticking up for eclear I'm not.

[skyman771]

spinnaker Ultimately this has served no purpose for pwc. ie they got no money out of the exercise.
Errr I doubt this ! I don't have in depth knowledge of this specific appointment but Ido understand as to how the professions work & PWC would have received an instruction from whoever appointed them i.e. in this case the instruction came from GSM's bank and would encompass a very nice remuneration structure. The bottom line being that the bank would underwrite such fees incurred. As ever directly or indirectly it is ALWAYS the creditors who pay!

[4567]

It would appear that all this stuff with E-CLEAR has allowed Tom Dalrymyple to go into the shadows it would be nice to hear him in an interview about his company and where it he thought it all went wrong, Should be good. No doubt though he f:mad:d off to some retreat for a while to lay low.
Anyone know where he is?

[inspecther gadget]

Anyone know where he is?

Have you tried his Yacht in Nice?

[matkat]

4567 any interview with TD would be worthless because he would blame everyone but himself, make no mistake here e-clear is a smokescreen I know well enough his mismanagement of his airline having to sit in the boardroom up to 3 times a day and listen to it. TD was a damn good travel agent but an airline man he certainly was not.
He was more than capable of bringing the airline down all by himself with or without any influence by e-clear.

[4567]

Its a shame Rick Green was never really given a chance you know he most likely was the puppet to TD.
Its a shame the company was never floated or left by the owner to people he could entrust to run it better.

[matkat]

4567 I have to agree with you, I only worked with Rick for about 4-5 months before I left but in that time I had some good talks with him on his ideas for the way forward for the airline and at first at boardroom level TD did seem to listen however after the honeymoon period ended it was obvious that TD was back to his old ways, I can only really talk from the engineering perspective but if he had left MK.GF & DMc to get on with it and no interference from him (TD) then I hope and think from an engineering standpoint things would have been turned around, even now I still hear(and see on here) how engineering let the company down, however it was not us that contracted icelandair for the disastrous summer of 2007.

[ecj]

Had the Icelandic aircraft not appeared, then the huge loss for that year would not have occurred. There were those who pleaded with TD not to down this route. This was the start of the slippery slope?
Financial credibility now suffers with all that entails.

And when did E-clear appear on the seen ?:ugh:

[matkat]

ecj, I was certainly one of those that advised him not go down this route only because the borescope reports showed definate problems with TF-TIF but as you say he was determined that was what he wanted, for the record after auditing NEOS I personaly had no issues with them and in fact had hoped they would have been back for S08 why they did not, as I have previously I have no idea.

[spinnaker]

skyman771
"Errr I doubt this ! I don't have in depth knowledge of this specific appointment"

PWC did get money for themselves, but not the GSM creditors. But yes I agree, I'm no expert either, I just know when its time to run. :eek:

Matkat
"TD was back to his old ways"

Yup, I had a front row seat. The demise of the company had nothing to do with engineering, (or eclear) but EVERYTHING to do with management at the most highest level. In all of my years sat in the front, I never once came across an engineer who did not want to do the right thing. But I did see a lot of dispirited people who knew what to do and when, but prevented buy other forces.

[matkat]

Well Spinnaker I also had a front seat so I have a fair idea who you are(out of a cast of 2) I am sure you know who I am, thanks for your kind words in reference to engineering.
Rgrds
DM

[luvly jubbly]

GSM Engineering could well come under scrutiny again....

Ethiopian Airlines ET-AMZ (Boeing 737 Next Gen) (Ex G-CEJP ) - Airfleets (http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b737ng-29646.htm)

[matkat]

LJ rubbish.

[luvly jubbly]

MatKat, I was GSM for the full 6 years, so I'm not having a go.
You know as well as I do that they will most likely look into maintenance history amongst other things..

LJ

[matkat]

LJ fair enough, yes I agree the A/C docs will be looked through but that does not imply that FGS engineering will be looked at, as the A/C was only handed over to Ethiopian in December all the docs will already have been scrutinised by Flyertech and Ethopian (+ILFC) prior to handover so therefore it is unlikely there will now be any FGS engineering issues, obviously not being at FGS since July 08 I have no idea what check JP went through prior to redelivery to Ethiopian but the Norm is 'C' check. So this would be the likely starting point (from an engineering issue) of course it would be normal practise to examine all maintenance documents from birth.

[4567]

Quite hard to believe i was on that a/c not so long ago :bored: Oman Air and the rest of asia had seen more of G-CEJP than FGS ever did. It was a good hybrid livery it had when it returned.

Hope the missing people are found.

[edilpa]

according to ethiopian airlines website it was ET-ANB (the ex ryanair) that crashed at BEY not ET-AMZ ex JP.

[IB4138]

The Ethiopian is ET-ANB (MSN 29935 ex Ryanair EI-CSW), which was delivered from Lasham after end of lease works on 13th September 2009.

[touch&go]

More light on the eclear affair in the Cyprus Mail today, the bit about missing files says it all.



E-Clear demise down to ?bad judgement and incompetency? - Cyprus Mail (http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/e-clear-demise-down-bad-judgement-and-incompetency/20100127)

[Phil Space]

And a good overview on E-Clear and how they brought Zoom and Flyglobespan down here;
How E-Clear tycoon Elias Elia lost £100m – and where it went - Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7008447.ece)

[parkfell]

One of the oldest ploys in the book
Robbing Peter to pay Paul.:=

[Facelookbovvered]

The more one reads about this the less it looks like fraud and more about poor management in both companies,part of the problem stems from weak Goverment oversight in all matters financial and this has hit Scotland very hard in a number of business sectors. One has to wonder how much of it is intentional on the part of Westminster. Many viewed the threat of the SNP as the death knell for a future Labour Goverment, all the talk of tiger economy and Celtic power house was just that in the end talk.

A country (Scotland) with Europe's worst drug and alcohol abuse, poor life expectancy and high unemployment is fertile breeding ground for Labours core vote and just when the country thought it was on the up it all falls apart.

Just like the Irish as things get worse they will reject the SNP and independance and ruturn to the comfort blanket of English hand outs, with only dreams and debts to show for the desire of a National airline for Scotland. RIP Globespan:E

[GS John]

Anybody else see the irony that FGS folded needing about £30 million, and BA have apparently lost about that per day in 2009?

Could British Airways really go bust or not? - Times Online (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article6543863.ece)

and

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article7009209.ece

[suck egg mule]

Another twist in the tale:ooh:

Shots fired at home of tycoon linked to Flyglobespan collapse - Scotland on Sunday (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Shots-fired-at-home-of.6029551.jp)

[spinnaker]

suck egg mule

So you wouldn't fancy starting a joint venture with him then. :eek:

[mustpost]

As Jimmy Cricket was in the habit of saying, 'and there's more'...
BBC News - FlyGlobespan cash used to prop up second firm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8509605.stm)

[touch&go]

Here is the program:

BBC iPlayer - Face the Facts: Payment Holiday (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qjwvw/Face_the_Facts_Payment_Holiday/)

[mustpost]

Not sure if there's anything fresh here, but anyway..
FlyGlobespan credit firm 'to be probed' - Edinburgh Evening News (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/FlyGlobespan-credit-firm--.6110567.jp)

[touch&go]

Boyle firm with E-Clear ties goes under

(25 February 2010)

Another company linked to failed credit card processing firm E-Clear has ceased trading.

Canadian operator Go Travel South, formerly called Go Travel Direct, ceased operations yesterday. Reports in the Canadian press suggested it would be bringing home customers in resort, but around 2,000 customers yet to fly would be out of pocket.

The company was founded by Scottish expat Hugh Boyle, who was believed to be chasing E-Clear for clearance of payments for Go Travel Direct before the credit firm was forced into administration at the start of the year. Boyle also ran Zoom Airlines, which failed in 2008.

Go Travel South specialised in travel from Canada to Mexico and the Dominican Republic.

A statement on the firm's website said: "We are saddened to inform you that effective immediately, Go Travel South is ceasing all of its operations due to economic circumstances. Please do not show up to the airport for you flights as they will not be departing."

Go Travel South is the latest company to fail with links to E-Clear. The card processing firm was itself forced into administration last month following the collapse of Scottish operator Globespan.

[Random Flyer]

E-Clear boss spent cash on luxury cars

Thursday, March 18, 2010

Article Details - Travel Trade Gazette (http://www.ttglive.com/articledetails?groupId=10246&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=3833768&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=3833768&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=3833768&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=3833768&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=3833768&version=1.0)

[touch&go]

Administrators report:

http://cdn.flyglobespan.com/20100312-Globespan-Group-plc/The%20Globespan%20Group%20plc%20Joint%20Administrators%20Pro posals.pdf

[DAVYDAY]

E-Clear boss spent cash on luxury cars

I had a wee chuckle at that heading..What TD didn`t ! aye right.:rolleyes:

Globespan directors also did over the years..

Who cares anymore as long as they stay well out of the airline business and concentrate on playing at hotels or hiding with Lord Lucan.

The board got everything that was coming.
Unfortunatly many many staff,suppliers and airports were stung with them...

Karma . peace . and here`s to a good future for all (well except that shower).:zzz:;):D:ok:

I`am out of here...;)

[boredcounter]

When all is completed, just what PWC's final fees are...............

[matkat]

Davy Davy, come on we normally agree but in FGS there was certainly no luxury cars at colinton if you are refering to TDs Porsche though in some circles that would be however it was his personal car (along with the cherokee) The only truely luxurious car that was in the car park albeit it not regularly was the silver Ferrari 355 and I can assure you the owner was NOT a director, in fact when TD saw it and found out who the owner was he was none to please and passed down to engineering for the owner to remove it from the carpark however as the said owner had a blue badge this was never done.
p.s. I know the Ferrari owner very well the above is 100% true, he was an hourly paid contractor though in a fairly high position, can you guess or do you know who it was? if so initials will suffice.

[Kiltie]

What was wrong with TD having luxury cars? It was his company, his capital investment so he could spend it on whatever he saw fit. He's the man at the top who took the risks in business so he deserves the spoils. Please don't tell me you think all Flyglobespan staff should have had pay rises and he should have only drawn what everyone else earned?

The comparison with Elia is unfair. Elia used cash that didn't belong to him to fund a luxury lifestyle.

Love or loathe TD, he was a businessman no different to any other involved in this level of investment. To expect him to live a mediocre lifestyle is laughable.

[matkat]

Kiltie I agree 100% his money so he could do what he wanted with it in this day a 4 year old porsche can hardly be seen as a 'luxury' car nice yes but hardly in the Bentley/RR league though I think taking it to the main dealer to get the windscreen washer filled up really was a tadge extravagant:}
Still waiting for the initials of the Ferrari owning member of the engineering staff though:p
Surprised DD has not mentioned TDs yacht moored in Nice harbour!!

[cabot]

Anyone any idea the whereabouts of all these aircraft , particularly the 767's ? Have they been leased out to other operators or are the lying gathering dust in a field ?

[gd44]

G-CEJO is operating for Travel Service as OK-TVN.
AW and CH are sitting in Beograd, however have operated some adhoc flights for operators requiring some additional capcity latley.

G-CDEG left before the company was placed into administration but is operating for Norwegian Air Shuttle and JP is operating for Ethiopian.

The 767s are sitting in Miami as far as I am aware.

[Curious Pax]

AW and CH are sitting in Beograd, however have operated some adhoc flights for operators requiring some additional capcity lately.


Are you sure? They have both been in Air Livery at Manchester recently - SAAW was repainted into Blue Air livery, and left on 10/4, whilst DLCH was repainted into Midwest colours and left on 11/4.

[Wellington Bomber]

One of them was in Shannon, just over 2 weeks ago parked over near the cargo side

[Evileyes]

Ok. Spotting stage officially reached. Thread closed.