BA Cabin Crew Strike Threats (Merged)

[openfly]

Hope Willy Walsh sees sense and closes BA down, then restarts it and offers the cabin crew new contracts.

[fantom]

Ever noticed that if you rearrange 'BA cabin crew' you get 'dinosaur'?
How weird is that?

[Phil Space]

Sums up their cabin service. Apart from BA...Qantas and KLM are airlines to avoid long haul cattle class.

The sooner these dinosaurs are extinct the better:ok:

[beamender99]

Vote was 9 to 1 in favour of action. 92.5% of the 80% of those who voted.

Action to take place from 22 Dec - a 12 day strike.

Suggested that up to 1M pax affected

Unions say they want pax to be angry with BA.

[Ivor Fynn]

Ouch - 12 day strike from 22 Dec!!!

I feel sure that this will help the BA finances!

Ivor:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[oliversarmy]

A tad short sighted ?

[Storminnorm]

Could spell TROUBLE for BA in the long run.
They're already in the Pooh financially.
This latest madness will just ensure that they
DO go down. Just totally crazy....
They'll all finish up working for Branson.
If He'll have them that is.

[UAV689]

Sums up their cabin service. Apart from BA...Qantas and KLM are airlines to avoid long haul cattle class.

The sooner these dinosaurs are extinct the better

Would you have all this well paid airlines disappear and be stuck with T+Cs of the likes of Ryan and Easy? Everyone self employed, paid by the scheduled flight hour?

I dont think they should strike, I hate over powerful unions holding the nation to ransom; times are tough for all airlines, (nice timing by the way of annoucing the pension black hole - coincidence...?) but if staff dont stand up to influx's of cheap labour it destroys it for all...

Example, was talking to a ultra-long distance trucker at weekend, he used to get paid 700-1000 euros a week. Now the company is in the process of registering all trucks in Bulgaria and hiring eastern block staff paying them 700 euros a month!

but jesus, 12 day strike? come on people, open your eyes. Pension hole is enough to probably make the company insolvent as it is.

[Dysag]

Please tell me why anyone should ever choose to fly BA.

[theredbarron]

Turkeys and Xmas come to mind here. WW should sack the lot of them immediately and start getting cabin staff in who will accept the new terms on offer..

[flugangst]

will this affect all routes?

[DirtyDitch]

Thanks alot B.A. Cabin Crew Now who's going to call my Mum in Seattle and tell her the super news..

[Basil]

My family won't be happy:
Five people - full commercial fare - business class - JFK-LHR return.
When Mrs Basil gets in she'll blame me personally for not having the grandchildren visit :sad:

[Doodles]

Muppets, muppets, muppets

[BoeingMEL]

Yep, and those who join Virgin will earn LESS than the proposed/amended salary! Goodbye BA... the unions helped their members just like they did with Rover MG/BL etc. Will the world and the industry cope without BA? Absolutely! :ugh:

[Malone]

Oh, Len whoever he is had to put a little dig in at the pilots. What a horrible little man he is!!

[poppiholla]

luckily i just read this before booking to NY for Xmas.

Reading the previous thread today about the pension deficit, i can;t help but think it's a pretty gloomy outlook.

Good luck to all you BA staff.

[boeing boeing.. gone]

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh: these are the same people who will be crying into their hot chocolates when the compnay collapses and they havent got a job. I like most people on here have booked with BA to go away over the new year... my only holiday this year........ thanks for ruining it

[Phil Space]

And just before this is moved to Jetblast just remember us who buy the tickets
pay you who are the cabin crew.

Have a look at the Daily Mail reaction today and take a rain check.

BA..we don't need you anymore:ok:

[oggers]

I've always found the BA cabin service to be better than most.

The problem is that the airline world has changed and a carrier the size of BA has to change or bust. By refusing to see this, the cabin crew are making a grave mistake in my opinion. :ugh: The deal on offer is so much better than anything they'll get if BA goes on the rocks.

[El Grifo]

But nobody is under any illusion here are they.

SOP's are in force.

BA wants to reduce Cabin Crew terms and conditions

BA prepares a pool of qualified and partially qualified people who are willing to work for less.

BA forces current cabin Crew into crippling strike, thus alienating travelling public at a very sensitive time.

Public outcry at the insensitivity of Cabin Crew.

BA sacks the lot, employs the new lot waiting in the wings, hey presto, job done, trebles all around.

How wide of the mark am I pray tell :ugh:

[aileron]

the vote to strike was known many weeks ago.

with some thought the outcome was known also.

why has anyone booked with BA over the holidays???????????

i flew with another airline and got a great price and great service.

wakey wakey

[flugangst]

@aileron

some ppl booked month ago. if not most...

[Capetonian]

I should like to express my sympathy to my friends who work for BA, whose jobs are being placed in jeopardy by these morons, and to my friends and family who have been misguided and unfortunate enough to have booked flights with BA during the period of the strikes.

If this is the end of BA as we know it, good riddance, and may it come back as we knew it in better days.

[Phil Space]

And the good news is they will not lose your luggage over Christmas:ok:

[Akrapovic]

I've never seen such short-sightedness - how to strike yourself out of a job in 12 short days . . . . :rolleyes:

[The FP]

Well at least they've knocked the bugs out of T5 over the past year so there's a nice new building waiting for a proper airline to move in to.

[aileron]

flugangst,

yes a good point and if i were one of those id be angry also

for the rest......remember there is a choice

as a non London, UK resident i grew tired of BA and its arrogance many moons ago. i think rebranding as London Airways is way overdue

for those of you caught up in this fiasco. vote with your feet next time......for now pick up the phone/pen and make your feelings known

[springbok449]

If these people think that they will get public sympathy...think again!

They could go BUST just like that! Anyone who thinks it won't happen need to take a long hard look at Sabena and Swissair...

These Airlines went bust and were then re-opened with different contracts...with a much lower cost basis.

Mr Len McWhatever stop being so patronising and pathetic, if you were that intelligent you would be sitting on the other side of the desk/fence!

[vulcan558xh]

No, I am mad at Unite who still live in the '70's and this weak government who don't have the balls to stand up to them. BA cabin crew are among the best paid in the industry and should wake up to the reality of BA's financial situation. Goose and golden egg springs to mind.

My son and his girlfriend are booked on BA ABD to LHR on 22 Dec. and return on 30 Dec.; thanks a bunch for the Christmas present you morons.

[er340790]

Doesn't it all sound horribly reminiscent of Michael Edwards and British Leyland?????

"Make it pay! Or close it down!"

Except this time, it's the City rather than Mags calling the shots. And compared to a pack of baying Investment Bankers, Mags was a poodle.

Remember BL? Staggered on a decade or so longer, first under Japanese then German ownership then flogged off to a gang of asset strippers before finally being closed down for good and any assets dumped at cents on the dollar to China.

And they say history repeats itself. :eek:

[Dual ground]

Can't help but feeling they have played into WW's hands...

[Doors To Manuel]

Here's how it will be....

How the Service will de-generate over those 12 Days of Yuletide strikes
(Sung to the well known tune)


On the first day of Christmas my crew love gave to me
a part ride with some lukewarm Chablis

On the second day of Christmas my crew love gave to me
Two fertile shoves (to the back of the cabin)
and a part ride to New York Cit-ee (return flight cancelled)

On the third day of Christmas my crew love gave to me
Three French mens (lost bags, instead of my own)
Etc etc

On the twelfth day of Christmas my crew love gave to me
Twelve plumbers bumming (a free ride home on another airline)
eleven pipers wiping (the tears of despair from their eyes)
ten awards a' weeping (couldn’t get an upgrade)
nine ladies re-financing (their trip to Turkey)
eight downgrades a' milking (as much sympathy as possible)
seven prawns a' slimming (no more onboard meals)
six police a' spraying (water cannon at the picket lines)
five apron strings (to go serve myself in the galley)
four appalling words (unrepeatable)
three French mens (lost bags instead of my own)
two fertile shoves (to prevent me moving forward to Club World)
and my bus fare home to Dundee

[Helen49]

So during the twelve days of Christmas there will be four calling birds,
three French hens, two turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree........plus Flybe, Ryan Air and the Orange birds. There'll be no need for pilots with gold rings because at this rate there won't be a BA!
Have these stupid people not heard of the recession, of people without jobs, others on reduced hours, companies going bust left right and centre? Did they not notice all the industries and companies which the unions destroyed. Doubtless the union bosses who inspired the strike will continue to enjoy their big fat salaries and the seasonal festivities!
Of course they had no intention of inflicting inconvenience on the general public......what a load of codswallop. Sadly they lack the intelligence to realise their own stupidity!
How very sad for a once great airline. RIP along with Swissair, Pan Am, TWA, Sabena etc etc.
H49

[driftdown]

The vote is in favour of strike action, the dates when it could happen are now known, does not mean it will go ahead.

May be there is a chance both sides will sit down and sort out a deal that addresses the issues at hand and negotiates a way forward. Well it could happen.

[fly12345]

Don t forget that now we have an incredibly strong union and probably no airline = result!:ouch:

[Con-Trail]

El Grifo (http://www.pprune.org/members/11398-el-grifo), You're so right! There are a lot of issues that hit the nerve of CC.

What I don't understand is why the union is not giving straight answers to the questions on that press conference. To get more understanding of the public they could have at least layed out the exact issues that Unite have.
In example the fact that the middle management of BA is made up with some ex-Tesco and ex-Sainsburys floor managers who think they can run In-flight management and consequently impose impossible measures to cut cost. In fact they haven't got a clue what goes on once the doors close and the aircraft pushes back and all they think of is reducing service to their paying passengers. Those same managers who actually at the company's expense travel to the hotels all around the world where BA crew stay to try to intimidate them to accept their terms without consulting them. Ground managers of cabin crew who haven't got a clue what they are talking about and consequently are useless if you have a problem related to in-flight services....

Why does nobody speak up and tell the paying passengers what the real issues are?

[PAXboy]

UAV689I hate over powerful unions holding the nation to ransom
But they are not holding the nation to ransom. They are attempting to hold their management to ransom. The rest of the nation will just shrug their shoulders and book elsewhere.

The UK no longer has sympathy for this kind of action unless it's people like the nurses, and CC have NEVER been considered in the same over-worked, underprivileged breath as nurses! It's no good the CC waking up now to smell the coffee - it's already gone cold.

El Grifo is correct that the mgmt would hope to lay them all off but - if the CC had negotiated a reduction in pay, Ts&Cs, then they might still have a job.

I used to say that BA would not be under it's present ownership within 10 years. I just reduced that to under 5 - irrespective of whether the strike goes ahead.

[Carnage Matey!]

Why does nobody speak up and tell the paying passengers what the real issues are?

I suspect BA will do that very shortly, but don't expect Unite to tell the fare paying passengers that the dispute is caused by their power struggle with BA and the threat to their day to day control of the operation.

[stormin norman]

Driftdown

Looking at those 3 Unite clowns at the press conference, i hardly think they have the intelligence to negotiate their way out of a paper bag.

[Mr Flaps]

Well done BA cabin crew hand a golden ticket to all airlines at LHR.
Seeing as I work on the ground for another LHR based airline, that BA will pay to re-route its PAX under IATA rules. It will cost BA millions! So short sighted of them. Oh well BA going down the pan. Looks like VS and bmi will have a busy xmas picking up BA’s mess as always.

[ab33t]

Not like we are going on holiday and BA does not need my money

[Walnut]

This is a disaster for BA, with the large pension deficit announced on the same day, they could be heading for up to a £1B loss this year.
One thing I would like a current "independant" union employment lawyer to answer is the situation re an official strike. I few years ago when I was involved in these matters, yes strikers could be dismissed immediately but it had to be collectively and the company were NOT allowed to remploy replacements for 90 days, If this is still the case then this might make all concerned get round the negotiating table.

[UAV689]

I dont agree with strikes, never have done, a throw back to the 70s.

But...as little as 2 years ago this company posted 600m profits. previous yrs posted avergave 300 m per yr.

Current crisis caused by bankers/goverment - BA lose premium traffic, and yet again the little person is expected to pay. Bit of a tenous link, but effectively that is whats happened (in my laymans eyes).

Now due to banks/brown balls up the little man has to pay (again), reduction in salary, from a company that 2 yrs ago had record profits.

I do have sympathy from anyone that stands to lose money.

If they went under I seriously doubt the Mandy would let it, not just the BA staff out of work, but literially 1000s of secondary jobs that serve BA.

Not a good situation for anyone to be in - when the Loco's rule the world we shall see how good things used to be!

[Andy_S]

[In fact they haven't got a clue what goes on once the doors close and the aircraft pushes back and all they think of is reducing service to their paying passengers. Those same managers who actually at the company's expense travel to the hotels all around the world where BA crew stay to try to intimidate them to accept their terms without consulting them.

Perhaps you could explain why the changes in working practices which have provoked this strike have been in place at Gatwick for some while (and work well). Or why they also seem to have worked fine when required at Heathrow (as long as the CC are given extra payments). Or why the level of service is any business of the unions?

[Serenity]

Very short sighted, we`ll see if there is a company left for them to return to after the New Year!!

I agree with some to close the company down and start again on new contracts!
This is pretty much what happened when Olympic Airways went bust and is now reincarnate as Olympic Air. They now work very hard and are very pround of their new company.

I flew with them recently, crew were friendly, aircraft were new, sweets on boarding, 3 drinks service, a meal and biscuits to go with the coffee service, all in 3.5 hrs!!
A million times better then the last time i flew BA and their one service, "i`ve worked so hard", attitude!!

[fly12345]

The company has today issued the following statement:

"British Airways is extremely disappointed that Unite is planning massive disruption for hundreds of thousands of our customers over the Christmas/New Year holiday period.

"A 12-day strike would be completely unjustified and a huge over-reaction to the modest changes we have announced for cabin crew which are intended to help us recover from record financial losses.

"Unite’s cynical decision betrays a total lack of concern for our customers, our business and other employees within British Airways".

[ayroplain]

This proposed Christmas strike has the stink of spite all over it. Sod them all. "Heavy hearts" my :mad:. There isn't one heart among them all.

BA should hire in spare aircraft/crew from other airlines (especially from Easyjet and Ryanair - just for spite) and leave these wasters to rot on their picket lines. I'm sure there are thousands of currently jobless CC who would jump at the opportunity to get back to work.

[Con-Trail]

Perhaps you could explain why the changes in working practices which have provoked this strike have been in place at Gatwick for some while (and work well)I'm not too sure if at all it worked. I can't speak for LGW crew. You'll have to ask them.

[Phil Space]

A million times better then the last time i flew BA and their one service, "i`ve worked so hard", attitude!!

Let them go bust....we don't need BA:ok:

[ManofMan]

Does anyone actually think this will happen ??? Strikes will be suspended pending talks....

[Andy_S]

I'm not too sure if at all it worked. I can't speak for LGW crew. You'll have to ask them.

Or you could read their comments on the Cabin Crew forum.........

[Con-Trail]

BA should hire in spare aircraft/crew from other airlines (especially from Easyjet and Ryanair - just for spite)

Have you got any idea what that might do to the service? Do you not think that the passengers who are really paying to keep BA afloat, namely the Club and 1st Class/ business/frequent flyer passengers would leave to other airlines who would treat them with better quality than having to pay for a soggy cheese burger in a plastic oven bag?

[Suggs]

The press ain't picked up on this yet but 80%+ of the crew at Gatwick will NOT strike, and are as sick as the rest of us, by this attempt to bring the company down.

It might only be a small part, roughly 2000 cabin crew but they know that unite are looking after Heathrow and not them.

They don't earn big bucks, have less crew already, work hard and are the only profitable part of the business. All be it a small part

BA Gatwick will carry on regardless.

[westham]

BA have messed me about for the last time. They will never get another penny from me. Off to book a new flight.

[Con-Trail]

Or you could read their comments on the Cabin Crew forum.........
Thanks. It'll take me a while to sift through all the negativity...

[nigeletmaz]

What a highly intelligent thing to do! go on strike when the staff are already amongst the highest paid there is, talk about trying to rob the golden goose what a load of idiots! I wouldnt be a bit surprised if Iberia now pull out of the deal as any sensible company would do and let BA go under. I just wonder what all the jobless berks who supported this strike will do for a job? I can see the next interview now, ah ex Ba staff are you ? no thanks, dont call us, we will call you if we want you, NOT!
I wonder how long the union will continue to pay the strikers after BA is gone?
These guys obviously come from the same school of intelligence as G.W.Bush and the postal workers there is only one job left for low intelligence groups such as these --- send them to Afghanistan as cannon fodder!

[skyloone]

A BA guy mentioned to me that they had contract CC ready to start should this happen. My understanding is that a CC course takes about 6 days (I'm not saying they'll be great) then some line check etc.... and presto...! Or is that wrong? So presume BA could run a limited service and perhaps wet lease in some a/c to do the short haul stuff. Europe is awash with capacity. Might make sense not to even fly the kites?

[Con-Trail]

I wouldnt be a bit surprised if Iberia now pull out of the deal as any sensible company would do and let BA go under

Did you know that Iberia staff get payed up to twice what they pay BA crew?

Guess not...

[overweight item]

The heavy hearts are surely among the passengers who will never again trust their holiday flights to these leamings. It is not even that they do an outstanging job either. 3 relations returning from Vienna last evening vowed to try any airline but BA next time - aircraft tatty, service careless and haphazard. Pretty much my experience on shorthaul particularly.

Neither BA or its customers owe these people a living as they might soon find out if they continue to wear blinkers in the modern airline world. :=

[DutchBird-757]

Oh dear, here we go... :(

Well, you could always go through LCY. They won´t be affected by this.

So off to LCY for x-mass and new year...

[BAOREY]

Whether the strike happens or not the damage has already started and will cost BA Millions in the short term and who knows what the long term potential damage will be.

The loss of confidence and reputation damage will take a long time to recover aand once passengers on long haul have seen the real quality of the likes of Qatar and Etihad they will not return.

The strike if it happens will just be the cherry on the cake.

[Andy_S]

Did you know that Iberia staff get payed up to twice what they pay BA crew?

Another myth. Again - this has been discussed and shown to be incorrect on the CC forum. You are comparing the salaries using current (i.e. weak pound) exchange rates.

[Birdy767]

At least if BA goes burst that's gonna (finally) fill in the BA Low Cost branch: "Openskies"... everything is planned from the beginning guys

[It's only Me]

Can't see too much sympathy here for the proposed strike.

I wonder how many of those that voted yes will actually join in on the day?

[MFALK]

I think this will go down as one of WW's greatest moments.
The fact that these are hard times for the airline business could actually mean that the impact of a long drawn strike now will be less costly to the Company in pure cash terms than in a boom period, where the value of the cancelled tickets (refunds) would be greater due to the higher yields.

It is analogous to when you are removing a band-aid, you can either try to tease it off and suffer, or else give it one mighty tug and get on with it!

It seems that BASSA have painted themselves in to an untenable position. If they go ahead with strike they will lose any remaining public support which will give the Board, backed by an enraged travelling public and a media who will happily fan the flames, unprecedented power to sever BASSA at its roots.

The positions in the economy cabins will be gladly filled by the hundreds of cabin crew who have been working at Low Cost airlines who would probably see an increment in conditions and pay with a new contract offered by BA even if it would be a fraction of the current package. Besides the glamour of working with Big Airways they can aspire to new "perks" such as layovers and upgrading to the premium cabins which was not an option with the Ryanairs of this world.

The vacancy in the premium cabin can be quickly filled by European staff who are currently working with the Middle Eastern airlines and are probably looking for a job back home after the average three year stint as an expat cabin crew in those airlines. These cabin crew are highly trained in safety, service and usually have impeccable grooming. The added benefit is that their average age will also be much less than the current BA Staff servicing the Premium Cabins.

No one likes to see a category of colleagues ground down to crumbs but, alas, I think WW will be making the shareholders very happy this Chistmas!

[moggiee]

But nobody is under any illusion here are they.

SOP's are in force.

BA wants to reduce Cabin Crew terms and conditions

BA prepares a pool of qualified and partially qualified people who are willing to work for less.

BA forces current cabin Crew into crippling strike, thus alienating travelling public at a very sensitive time.

Public outcry at the insensitivity of Cabin Crew.

BA sacks the lot, employs the new lot waiting in the wings, hey presto, job done, trebles all around.

How wide of the mark am I pray tell :ugh:
Pretty close I reckon and it would be a good move for the company in the long run.

[ninja-lewis]

Out of interest, does anyone have a list of all the times BA staff have striked or threatened to strike over the past few years? The media don't seem to have sorted out the background pieces such as this yet.

[BigHitDH]

What a shame it had to end like this. Maybe others will sit up and take notice of the chain of events, talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Well, if there is a BA left after the New Year, there are plenty of "CC" waiting in the pool over at EZY...:mad:

[BUS319]

MFALK, IMHO I have to agree. WW has been brought in to do what he does best and that is break unions. He is a relatively young FTSE 100 CEO and will not want to tarnish his career so early on. As demonstrated previously with the open skies case he took BALPA over a barrel and I can't help but think UNITE/BASSA are soon to meet a far worse fate.
I feel very sorry for the passengers effected however while CSD's and old contract cabin crew still command salaries of £55,000 plus I truly believe the company have been left with no alternative. I also believe when people outside the BA bubble learn of these salaries public support for UNITE will be non existent. At the end of the day a Cabin Service Director is still and rightly so classed as an unskilled job! (one of the most highly paid unskilled jobs in Europe)

[Pilotinmydreams]

Wonderful!! I don't know enough on the internal politics at BA to pass comment. What I can comment on though is that my 4 year old is looking forward to seeing Mickey Mouse this Christmas at Disney but instead has the possibility of seeing the inside of an airport instead. Whoever is to blame, if he doesn't get to go, perhaps they could explain to him why not!

On another note, I do have to comment on the shameful pieve of Journalism on the radio earlier where the correspondant apparantly ripped up his tickets saying they were now worthless!! Perhaps maybe but let's live in hope for God's sake!

[Island Jockey]

:eek: all the BA staff on their Annual 'free flights' will not be happy!

[chrisbl]

RIP BA, terms and conditions need to flex to the overiding conditions.

BA cabin crew would it seem would rather be unemployed than having a job on modified conditions. Probably explains why they are cabin crew and not up front.

[StygerTim]

Just some thoughts, from a long-suffering shareholder, a regular SLF and an ex-BA fan.

1. Years ago, if the magic words ‘British Airways’ featured on your cv, and you applied for a cabin job with another airline, you went straight to the top of the list for recruitment.

2. Now, if you have the magic words ‘British Airways’ on your cv, you go right to the bottom of the list. After today, you probably won’t even make the list – and that same brush probably tars all BA cabin employees, not just the Heathrow Airways crowd.

Shame. And then . . .

3. Year ago, when I told people I had bought a stack of BA shares, I was proud of my investment. Quality company, quality staff, quality service.

4. Today, having suffered years of no dividends and a similar fate if BA has any future, when I tell them I own BA shares, they laugh at my misfortune, and my stupidity . They’re right. Today, BA cabin staff have proved they don’t give a Christmas fig about their shareholders.

So, to the Cabin Crew. Let’s see what happens when we SLF vote long-term with our feet, BA has to dispense with your services, and you’re out on that tough job market in competition with your work-hungry colleagues from RYA, EZJ, Globespan and the rest.

To Unite. Let’s see what happens when all those BA CC can’t afford to pay your subs any longer.

And to WW. I don’t like your style, but you’ve done what it said on your tin when the Board bought you. You’ve told the truth, you’ve got tough, and you’ve hit back at one of the most ‘turkey votes for Christmas’ moments in the history of the airline business.

Turkeys ? Even those flightless birds would have seen what’s coming . . .

[Navpi]

They long abdicated any "national airline responsibility" by centralising at Heathrow and stuffing the regions this is particularly true at Manchester !

If it wasnt bad enough to pull their own services they then put pressure on other airlines to do likewise Qantas, Cathay and Iberia to name but three !

...BA can go hang as far as i'm concerned and if the strike brings about their downfall, so be it !

They deserve all they get !

Cheers :ok:

[pax britanica]

Does Willie Walsh really work for Ryanair, wrecked Aer Lingus and now BA.
Sad to see this happening and though I have sympathy with cabin staff they are going about his the wrong way at the wrong time.

Equally sad to see people on here, ordinary working people even if some have aspirations to be called something else, turning on others with such vitriol.

BA managemnt are far far from blameless either on this issue and especially pensions, pension holidays, failure to deal with deficeits when times were good so as to cream off bigger bonuses.
I hope some sensible resolutions found for the sake of all at BA and the thousands around LHR who depend on BA for their living too.
Not a good day

[UAV689]

55 large for cabin crew working how many days a month..wow I didnt know that.

If BA goes and a new BA lite emerges that will be sh*it for everyone. 10,000s will go. Imagine all the dead wood getting culled. All the services that could be contracted out? 1000s in cargo to be instantly 3rd party contracters, probably the same for baggage, ground support services, drivers, all no longer part of BA and yes you will lose pensions, flights, perks the whole kit and cabodle.

I hope unite think about that.

[OZOS]

Willy Walsh chose the timing of the forced action - implementation was the 16th November; work it out. Legally forces the first strike date to be the 21st December. (And only the month to conclude the business.)

No one wants to strike - and the crew care more about the passengers than the management. Wages have been well over estimated in the press. Yes the money is ok (and on a par with airlines of equivalent status; even a little below - BA don't compete with Ryan Air!) but what would you think if you went to work on Friday and your boss said that sorry, you should be going home tonight but it'll be next Thursday before we can get you home?

Maybe people shouldnt trust the BA propaganda machine? Just a thought. And ours aren't the only plans to be messed up - sure that some of the crew should have been home with their families aswell - not stuck in places, some that don't celebrate Christmas at all.

Good luck to them all. Hope Willy gets his comeuppance.

[BusDriverLHR]

Unfortunately I'm not at all surprised by either the % YES vote or the reaction by BASSA.
I'm sick to the teeth of seeing this company ruled by a bunch of prehistoric CC industrial limitations that cripple us whenever there's the slightest hint of disruption.
Even when things are running smoothly we are forced to compete at a disadvantage as we paying more crew a lot more money than any of our competitors.
It's about time the CC were brought back to reality. This was never going to be particularly pleasant, however it could have been a lot less painful than anything Willie has in store for them now. There has been a lack of willingness on BASSAs part to acknowledge the fact that as a group, they are massively overpaid and underworked, and the fact that the this needs to change for the company to have a viable future. They have been completely unwilling to enter meaningful negotiations with the management (contrary to anything that UNITE idiot Len McCluskey has to say).
The result is what we have now.

Any sympathy I had for the CC has vanished - everyone who pays their £18/month gives BASSA their power and they are all responsible for the actions of their union. I hope Willie now brings their Ts&Cs to market rate + 10% (i.e. decimates them for a lot of crew) and, ideally anyone who strikes should lose their job. God knows there are thousands of qualified, willing and capable people out there who would jump at the chance of a 'New Fleet' contract.

Can he do it? - I don't know, but I am hopeful, I certainly have a lot more confidence in WW than I do in BASSA. Fingers crossed I still have job in 2010.

[M.Mouse]

baggersup

The pension deficit would not be massively improved by losing all the existing CC for the simple reason their pensions are based on their LOW basic salaries. Their earnings are massively dependent on the 1001 extra payments from having bunk lights stuck on to shorthaul reducing a turnaround time from its normal stupid level.

pax britanica

Please stop quoting the pension holiday myth. It is the LAW that you cannot continue paying in to a fully funded scheme. The last pension holiday was compulsory because APS was fully funded, BA have never had a pension contributio holiday from NAPS.

OZOS

Maybe people shouldnt trust the BA propaganda machine?

You mean we should trust your union's propoganda instead? If I was in BASSA (UNITE) I would be looking for some heads to roll the way they have misled you and are leading you to oblivion. Some CC even think they still get paid when on strike!

[tb10er]

"By Bye BA" seems like it is coming true.

I'm afraid that this is the final nail in the coffin.

:ugh:

[OZOS]

M.Mouse

Maybe there are some things worth fighting for?? Guess there is an end of the tether, and only so much the job is worth doing it for.

What I believe is that an honest days work is worth an honest days pay. And if you are contracted to Mon - Fri 9 - 5 that's what you should work. Now, not saying that a little 8 - 10pm isn't required on occasion, but going in to work on a Tuesday and finding out when you were due to go home that you have to be there until Sunday, isn't reasonable. If you think this is, then we will have to agree to disagree.

[KarlosFandangos]

Well done to the BA CC! BA is losing a reported £1.6Million per day, the biggest loss in BA's history since privateisation, a pension defecit of £3.7Billion and the CC in their rather short sighted wisdom decide to strike at one of the most profitable times of the year and for 12 days :ugh:

You are doing no end of damage to an already battered reputation - I dont say that WW has all the best ideas, and he hasnt helped, but seriously CC could be putting one of the final nails into BA's coffin - you guys need to realise that you are lucky to have a job, get a grip and negotiate even offer to take a lower salary of a few % for a year or two and help turn BA's battered reputation around, maybe also attempt to force WW out and get someone who will empower BA's staff to improve its customer service in all ares to take over and bring BA back to a world reknowned repuation that it used to have. Also get rid of the miserable old CC dinasuars would be a good start too!

[D O Guerrero]

UAV689 - I wouldn't be so sure. The Government do not see air travel as appealing to the sectionable people who would apparently still vote for them. I'm not sure this is the end of BA - but it certainly isn't going to help. The main issue as far as I am concerned is the completely mean spirited nature of the timing of the strike.
The union assume that people will feel sympathy towards them and anger towards BA. I think in most cases, this is likely to be completely incorrect - they have completely misjudged people's mood towards striking in the current climate. I fly on BA a lot, even though I work for another operator. I'd happily see all striking BA crew sacked and made to re-apply for their jobs - they've had it too good for too long. They need to promote on merit, not on time served and get rid of the ridiculous situation where people are encouraged to live in Madrid or wherever and commute in! What planet are these people on?

[jonseagull]

It's an airline OZOS. Deal with it.

[WOD-DET-DVR]

What an unbelievably selfish attitude to take. Those cabin crew members who have voted to strike should be ashamed of themselves. The public will back Walsh and his management on this one. I hope he takes a very firm line.

[frangatang]

Mmm, recently flew on a 6 hr flight, long haul BA and the cabin crew were whinging like hell as there wasnt time to get into the bunks! All down to reducing their number by one on the plane. They were also very smug about the expected outcome of this ballot. Precious dears!

[M.Mouse]

OZOS

What are you on about, your ramblings make no sense at all to me?

[crewmeal]

Did anyone see Simon Clader throw his toys out of the pram by ripping up his booking confirmation? Talk about over reaction!!!

What would happen to his booking if the strike is called off? print another?

[zed3]

This seems to be a typically UK Union/Management conflict with both determined to exit on top. The history of the UK dictates that it is a mentality problem - them and us. I am not employed by BA - European ATC and we have been abused also yet we are on a good salary and realise it ... communication seems to be the crucial point here , as ever in this situation. I support neither the one side nor the other but see both, as I am sure many do. Part of the problem lies with politics- duck houses maybe - respect has to be earned. Anyway, I have very dear friends (40 years) who work/ed for BA , he 35 years in ticketing and she 25 or so ground staff at Manchester and now cabin crew from London - and I say FROM London - travelling up and down for international flights , at the age of 55-ish (sorry). Both are/were BA dedicated BUT in my view the management (small m) attitude - normal in today's age is what is wrong with BA. I saw this coming years ago and switched from flying BA DUS-MAN to the ferry, Rotterdam-Hull and it is much more relaxed... and fun, the staff are great. I hope that BA survives (given the pension problems-do we understand this?) but regret that it will not - the bottom line will be management and WW- that is after all what they are there for?

Two sides, two stories - why don't people learn? This has been going on for years. Kids grow up.

zed.

[sportzbar]

Ok. I don't post very often but this recent development has just got my back up! I am quite frankly p****d off that this strike is going ahead. I am not a regular flier and indeed this strike will not affect me in the least. However it seems to me that a reality check is in order. I am a simple man of simple means so I will give my opinion.....

As far as I know the year is 2009 and at the moment we are suffering the worst recession for 60 years. It may be our fault it may be not, that is others opinion. I don't earm a great deal but I am working in the industry I chose to work in because I love my job. My line of work has suffered due to the recession and I have lost out on it but hey at least I still have internet and SKY TV. However, You are working in your chosen career! Nobody put a gun to your head! If you dont like it then quit! Many people I know and have worked with are now signing on and I consider myself grateful for having a job.

So please excuse me when I say that if you think that as cabin crew for British Airways (those who voted to strike by the way) you are right to vote for strike action then let me say that not only are you dinosaurs from times past, but that you are personally sticking two fingers up at people like me, who do not have a choice in the times we are in, you are greedy beyond belief and I cannot believe it when I say this but I hope BA fails so that you too can feel what it is like to be working class!

[drflight]

I fear the Union, and Cabin Crew who voted to strike, are very much barking up the wrong tree if they believe the public will have some sympathy towards their cause this time round.

So many other iconic British organisations and institutions have either fallen by the wayside or been bought over by foreigners, e.g. the Cunard Line and P&O being but two examples (they are both owned by the cheap cruise line Carnival Cruises), that the public may shed a few tears and moan about the demise - untile the next cheap batch of fares comes along from another airline.

There are simply too many competitors out there now, particularily on North American, Far East and Australian routes, especially in the Premium Cabins. If BA falls the business traffic will lament the loss and merely shift to an alternative. The Union and CAbin Crew seem unable, or unwilling, to accept this reality.

[NOT ORANGE]

I'm convinced there is a manufactured fight going on here,good luck to a great service lead airline,and f22k the rest of them.....

[Andy_S]

Guess there is an end of the tether, and only so much the job is worth doing it for............going in to work on a Tuesday and finding out when you were due to go home that you have to be there until Sunday, isn't reasonable.

Then the answer is very, very simple. Quit. Find another job which better suits your lifestyle. I suspect there'll be a long queue of applicants willing to take over from you.

[SpeedyG]

Prima-Donna's come and Prima-Donna's go, so it will come to pass that BA will rest in the ashed along with other more deserving carriers like BUA/BCAL etc.. Only this time it will be hoisted by its own petard.

Oh well Good Luck Virgin!!!:ok:

[dope05]

whether the strike goes ahead or not, the damage has been done. I mean all those who have booked are now on their computers seeking alternative flights, and those yet to make their arrangements will not even consider BA - would you?

If, for some reason it gets resolved, then there are going to be plenty of empty seats for sale.

How can a strike influence a company losing nearly £2m on a normal day, plus an unsustainable cost base and a £3.5 billlion hole in its pension plan, except for giving it an excuse to close it down and start again on its own terms? Maybe thats just what WW wanted.

Have four tickets booked for Jan, EGGP-GMAD £10 return each no extras and the service is perfectly fine. Goes by the name of FR :D

[pinkaroo]

BA Pilots vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners on lesser terms and conditions and it's a good thing.
BA Cabin Crew vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners and it's a bad thing?

[Ancient Observer]

What a wierd strike!
Only the pax seem to care. The providers seem proud that they would rather have their airline - and its pension fund FAIL, rather than do some work.

I do hope that the pax and journos notice that the £55,000 pa CC work at a MAX of 900 hours per annum. They seem to think that is too much.
They receive £55,000 - on average - as CSDs for working a MAX of 900 hours per annum. So some earn about £80,000 p.a. for being a safety trained waiter?

I'll repeat that - £80,000 p.a. as a safety trained waiter????

The UK average wage is c £22,000 per annum for a 1700 hour week. How come BA management has allowed CSD types to earn nearly 3 times as much for half the working time???

I feel sorry for pax - the CC forum has had a number of them comment - and I feel sorry for JSL and other sensible BA folk on the CC forum. However, 90% is 90%. Let them all lose salaries and pensions.

[Skipness One Echo]

BA Cabin Crew vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners and it's a bad thing?

Given some of the insane Spanish practices that still live on from the 1970s at BA yes. It is a B A D THING.

[License to Fly]

i think the cabin crew have done this to have Christmas and New year off !

grrrrrrrr -who do they think they are affecting everyones Christmas, I bet it will not be fun working on a BA aircraft for the next week ....

[OZOS]

License to fly ... how wrong you are.

No one can change your views. I'd say the awverage wage at BA is round £20-22,000. No where near what has been said in the media. You will all believe what you will, but striking is not an action anyone wants to take. Nor is accepting the proposals Willy Walsh has. Sure everyone would be happy if Willy just went back to the table and negotiated. Unfortunately that word is not in his dictionary. Still we live in hope of a solution.

[glad rag]

Customers who are booked to travel between 22 December 2009 and 2 January 2010 and for 48 hours on either side of those dates who would like to take their flight at a different time can change to another BA flight departing in the next twelve months at no charge.
If a customer’s flight is actually cancelled because of industrial action, we will offer them the option to refund their ticket, rebook on to a different flight or reroute their journey on another BA flight.
"Sorry, we are unable to process your request. Please contact your booking agent."

So what are we SLF supposed to do? Book another airline and if the strike is called off get NO refund from BA or sweat it out and find ourselves marooned from our families and children this Christmas?? ******* shambles.

[nigeletmaz]

matey u are talking from somewhere you are sitting on

[str8up69]

After reading this thread WHY would you be so upset with the cabin crew for standing by their union.
If BA were to change even the pilots desert BALPA would go for strike asap or better still what if they were to remove your club seat for crew rest you would all be up in arms if this was imposed right?:mad:

[tonker]

Surely this is a goverment consiracy to stop all the bankers from leaving!:\

I know i know, "stop calling me shirley"

[circseam]

Overpaid, Overhyped and time for a reality check!

In what other industry would one asume that by striking, over the busiest time of the year are they, the unions, going to alienate, the BA management or the very same people they rely upon to pay their wages.

BA, more than most have had it good for too long, welcome to life outside that bubble of "the worlds favourite airline", you were not then, you certainly are not now and I like many will vote with my feet and shall in the future choose an airline that actually values their patrons/ guests!

Another disgruntled person who had a vacation booked during this period with BA, your a disgrace

[BusDriverLHR]

pinkaroo

BA Pilots vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners on lesser terms and conditions and it's a good thing.
BA Cabin Crew vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners and it's a bad thing?


BA pilots voted for strike when BA introduced reduced Ts&Cs for new joiners that were below market rate for longhaul pilots, incidentally after months of active negotiation, and around the time the company was announcing record breaking profits.

BA CC have voted to strike over reduced Ts&Cs for new joiners that are still significantly above market rate, having failed to enter any meaningful negotiations and have done so in the worse recession since the 1930s, while the company is on the brink.

[wubalaj]

Xmas has come early for WW. Three out of touch socialist crony unionists dragging the CC (who get paid twice as much for half the work) through this process will be suicide for Bassa.

Bassa don't have a leg to stand on since they threw LGW to the wolves all those years ago. BA will find a legal block within hours, nullify the old contracts and get full support from shareholders and general public to do so after such a cynical threat from out of touch Unite hasbeens.

Crazy.........

[KarlosFandangos]

Well quite Frankly maybe there needs to be give from both side's. What the CC are doing over xmas is unthinkable - peaople will not be able to get home to see their families - that is not on at all! A also sincerely believe that WW seems so set his ways that he too refuses to budge and negotiate and now its a lets score points off each other - something akin to children in a playground! Surely bit of give and take on both sides needs to happen? Personally if the CC are striking to protect new CC joining the airline, then get real it doesnt adversly affect you T&C's change lolok at all the companies out there pulling their final salary schemes to new joiners- its an unfortunate turn of events but has to happen to see the comapnies through - if it doesnt afffect you negatively and means that BA can turn its fortunes around why not accept what WW is proposing - and if CC and the pilots etc really think he's that bad then maybe the entire staff should announce a vote of no confidence in WW and maybe the shareholders will get rid of him for someone better able to run BA and turn into once again into a Great British Icon!

[glad rag]

matey u are talking from somewhere you are sitting on

20 Euro refund on a 170 single ticket after calling a 12 day strike?

I know what an arse is and it's BA.

[Inspector Clueless]

Let me get this straight-BA losing £1.5M per day.

BA Gatwick are ALREADY on the new terms.

Im returning from AUH full fare Biz on Dec 23.

Im an airline pilot,not an economist.

I think BA will go bust if they follow through on this.

IC:cool:

[AltFlaps]

Well done British Airways!
When you all go pop, there'll be more for the rest of us :\

Sort those cabin crew out :ugh:

[chips101]

Mr Brown is not goinig to let BA go down under his watch!

[SpeedyG]

GB cannot afford to be bailing out this lot again in their lifetime, besides Labour cannot be seen to be doing what the Tories have already done.

...Sink or Swim, neither the public purse not public mindset will want to back anything short of close shop and start again... Methinks BOAC 2010 has a nice touch about it

:D

[kingsleylion]

Most of the people on this site are probably BA pilots thinking about their 80 000 quid pensions going down the crapper.

[lexxity]

I totally disagree Chips, how much ****e did GB and Co take for bailing out the banks? To bail out an airline would be a suicide move with a general elction around the corner.

[beach_life]

I'm afraid Lexxity is correct.

I can empathise with BA staff but they are in a better position than thousands of people who have lost their jobs, homes, etc this year. Why cant they just look upon the situation with a pinch of reality. Alright its not ideal but what is at the moment and please...surely no-one gets into the CC game for the money?

BL

[tomkins]

As part of the 33% of BA cabin crew who did vote " no" or who are not union members ,I do feel very sad about the way things have unfolded.I am very sad for the passengers whose holiday plans may be destroyed and for the reputation of the company for which I am proud to work .
Having joined BA in the last couple of years ,on the new style contract,you may find it hard to believe ,but a fair number of us do actually take home significantly less than crew working for ,say Easy Jet.Please don't put all BA c/c in the same boat ,we're not all up for striking,and we don't all earn significant salaries!!!:(

[fincastle84]

WW will win, no question. The members of Bassa (Unite) have been using restrictive practices for years & at long last they have come up against a CEO who has said ENOUGH!

I've already received confirmation that my flight to CPT WILL operate on 23 Dec. The majority of CC have woken up & smelt the coffee. If you don't beleive me, take a look at the Cabin Crew forum.

[TopBunk]

pinkaroo/Bassa rep/whoever

Long time no see! Resurrected no doubt due to todays events and the lack of the other 'regular' BASSA reps/hawks who monitor and reply on this forum:rolleyes:

BA Pilots vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners on lesser terms and conditions and it's a good thing.
BA Cabin Crew vote for a strike over reduced terms and conditions for new joiners and it's a bad thing?

But the Cabin Crew are NOT striking over reduced terms and conditions, they are striking over imposition of non-contractural changes. they are not striking over New Fleet, they can't legally as it does not exist yet.

At least get your facts straight!:ugh:

[AltFlaps]

Kingsleilion
"most of the people on this site are BA pilots ?!"

For me, that sums it all up perfectly ... The delusion of grandeur is complete :rolleyes:

[Birdy767]

Aviation News and Aviation Jobs from Flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/home/default.aspx)

Within a few hours you got 2 articles linked to BA:

One is about more money (+/- 25M £) that could be invested in Openskies (branch against who BA pilots went on strike :D unsuccessfully :( )

Second is of course about the decision of Cabin Crew to strike and stand up to protect their T&C :D despite the fact that BA is losing tons of Sterlings/day.

Do you think that everything is now set up to launch a new low cost BA (if bankruptcy) using Openskies T&C :ugh: That's been seen before guys!

[chips101]

Lexxity & Speedy G what you say is 100% correct if common sense is applied. Like I said Mr Brown will not let BA go down on his watch!

[jetset lady]

As Tomkins has already said, please remember that there are a lot of crew out there that have not voted for a strike and will be doing their utmost to keep as many services running as possible over the christmas period. I'm working tomorrow and frankly, I'm now dreading it. I know I will be getting abuse from certain areas of the general public, just for wearing the uniform. It happened last time there was a threatened strike and I suspect this time, will be much worse. Please, if any of you are flying in the next couple weeks, do not tar us all with the same brush and if you do get the urge to tell us your version of some "home truths", stop and think first.

As for those that are seemingly gleeful about the possible fall of our airline, you are no better than those that have voted to strike. What about all of us, in all departments, that have worked our socks off to try to make things work? Should we have to lose our jobs too? You are despicable!

I can't believe I'm sitting here, watching all of this all happen again. I just want to cry, but I'm damned if I'll give Unite/BASSA the satisfaction!

Jsl

[happydays39]

I understand that the crew have issues with the management, who doesnt from time to time?

But the management of any company are struggling to keep afloat, this is a critical time in the world economy and quite honestly the crew at BA should think more carefully of what their strike action could cause to the airline and British Aviation industry.

I have noticed that on ba.com reservations have stopped for the strike period and travellers will hear further information on their bookings, this is going to have a detrimental affect on the airline especially at such a crucial time. Customers lose faith and book elsewhere, try another product then like it and never go back, its quite simple.

I say bring in contract cc (i know plenty that would be more than willing) and get some of the flights out, as for the striking crew, do they really need or want the job, i doubt it...... let them have the stress of having no job!

It is completely pathetic!!!!

[ExXB]

I'm on a redemption ticket in Y traveling back from LAX on 1 January. Went to manage my booking to see what was available - nothing until 16 January. I could also do SFO, but that doesn't seem to be an option.

Sigh. I traveling out on the 21st, and thought I dodged the bullet. If I can't get back, I'm not going out.

Edited: typo

[cresmer]

"Len McCluskey, assistant general secretary of the Unite union which represents BA staff, said the lengthy strike was designed to have a "maximum impact" on the airline.
"It goes without saying that we have taken this decision to disrupt passengers and customers over the Christmas period with a heavy heart," he told reporters.
"Our message to them (the passengers) is we would like them to be angry with the company."
1. Passengers will be angry at the cabin crew not the Management
2. BA Cabin Crew are rewarded very well when compared to other flag carrier airlines.
3. The strike will cause irreparable damage. Why can't the Cabin Crew see that?

[Quietachiever]

It is about time more airline personnel made a stand on wages and conditions in our industry. We are all on a constant financial slippery slide. Just look at your own terms and conditions. It will get to the stage where it is not worth doing any more.
BA crew have made a tough decision and I would have done the same.
Well done!

[Andy_S]

Like I said Mr Brown will not let BA go down on his watch!

The banks had to be saved otherwise they'd have taken the economy with them. Even an idiot like Mr Brown realises that if BA go under then the world will go on regardless. I didn't see the government stepping in to nationalise Vauxhall and I don't see any sign of them stepping in to rescue Corus. And believe me, the same will be true of BA, because they are NOT a strategic national asset. The taxpayer tolerated bailing out the banks because - directly or indirectly - their own wealth was tied up in them. They will take a very dim view of being made to cough up to keep an ailing airline afloat, especially when they realise how self indulgent the strike is.

[call100]

And just before this is moved to Jetblast just remember us who buy the tickets
pay you who are the cabin crew.

Have a look at the Daily Mail reaction today and take a rain check.

BA..we don't need you anymore:ok:
If you want to be taken seriously, never, ever, quote the Daily Mail!!:ugh:

[ExXB]

There is only a slim chance that the European Commission would permit a bail-out of BA. However it is possible, but have a look at the 'new' Olympics and Alitalias to see the future.

Shop clerks will make more than BA cabin crew under this scenario.

Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.

[M.Mouse]

.....that could be invested in Openskies (branch against who BA pilots went on strike unsuccessfully)

Completely wrong about the dispute and what actually occurred.

[Viscount812]

It doesn't really matter too much now whether or not the strike goes ahead (except to those with bookings, of course). The confidence in our one time flag carrier is no longer there. The favourite airline tag is well buried. The reputation is in tatters. The damage is done......

[Holer Moler]

Just how legal !!!! -Seems BASSA has perhaps created an invalid ballot by balloting the 1000 plus folks who have taken vol redundancy recently. !!!!!!

[kaikohe76]

What a total load of gutless wonders you are BA CC, slightly low in the integrity stakes as well. You are really sticking it to the Christmas travelling public again, well done!!!

I don''t need to worry, as I have not touched BA for many years, when I travel these days I prefer a professional & caring airline, who have some consideration for their clients & travelling public.

You really are behaving like a load of spoilt brats as usual, I hope in the end you get all that is comming to you & more!!

[wubalaj]

If you saw the ballot paper (which I did) it said something like, "Will you be prepared to support your union given the threat to your T's and C's?" Clear as mud I reckon.

Just like the X factor the CC will have voted with the majority.........however, the Bassa machine is very clever at bringing the horse to water but it always dies trying to make it drink. Passengers you will get to where you need to go this xmas!

[MarcJF]

BA - Best Avoided

I feel sorry for those that have voted, they just don't get it.

[D O Guerrero]

Having seen Willie Walsh and Len whatsisname slug it out on C4 news this evening, I think the situation can be summed up as follows:

- The union are upset about the fact that they weren't consulted about the imposed changes to LHR CC's T&Cs.
- Err that's it.

LGW has already had these T&Cs (identical to what's in the post for LHR as I understand it) for some years already. But apparently that's ok because BASSA negotiated that deal for them. So what it boils down to is that the deal is being imposed rather than negotiated. Well whoop-de-doo Basil... get over yourselves.

[beamender99]

Several CC have called a UK phone in programme saying they are shocked at the 12 day strike.
They did vote for a strike but not 12 days so this has come as a big surprise as they were expecting a one day strike.

[cresmer]

Can someone publish the package these people (new hires, 10 years service, 20 years service etc) earn per month, including allowances plus the number of hours they have to WORK each month to earn that income?
In that way I can compare against other airline cabin crew, shop assistants, bar staff and restaurant staff, their salaries and hours. At the moment I am pretty certain BA Cabin Crew have it pretty cushy. Please guide me!

[Anansis]

BA - Best Avoided
Sad but true.

cresmer-
Can someone publish the package these people (new hires, 10 years service, 20 years service etc) earn per month, including allowances plus the number of hours they have to WORK each month to earn that income?
Its on the cabin crew thread somewhere- not sure where as its gotten rediculously long! If you have the time and patience to dig around Im sure you will find it...:ok:

[hamsco]

I cannot believe that BA cabin crew are voting for a 12 day strike at the busiest travel period of the whole year.

BA cabin crew are of the most dedicated and professional of all cabin crew I know. I have travelled four times UK - USA this year twice in BA club and twice in economy. Each flight has shown me the dedication these people show to their roles.

This is why I cannot believe they would vote to strike for TWELVE DAYS over the major peak trade for any airline. What is behind this.

Come on BA crew, live in the real world. I work in travel too and was told in September last year of a Global pay freeze in my company. We all accepted this. BA will go under if this goes ahead. I suspect a hard handed Union. If so they have got it wrong. We all need to make sacrifices to survive in travel at the moment. If its not these cuts it will be no fee alcohol or no meals. Do you really want to work for a Ryanair ?


Come on Unite, please work with the trade and the public on this, everyone wants BA to survive as a strong global airline but if this strike happens you will become a third rate fourth choice airline. See the big picure, please !!

hamsco

[moggiee]

Tomkins and jetset lady: I'm sure that I speak for many people when I say that you are to be commended for telling Unite to get stuffed. Good luck with your attempts to provide a service to your customers whilst the dinosaurs are out on strike.

[Low Flier]

BA - Best Avoided

Yup. My quality of life increased noticeably when I started boycotting BA about three years ago.

BA has some good pilots, some excellent aeroplanes, and has a route network that most airline execs would drool over, but the airline is badly let down by crappy ground staff and some of the crappiest CC in the world.

As for the cretins who lead the CC unions: words almost fail me. Proving to your customers that they don't need you is just about the most stupid thing that anyone in any service industry can do.

If BA was a horse, I'd have it put down.

[knowitall]

"Mr Brown is not goinig to let BA go down under his watch!"

no but he will let it go into administration and New BA emerge (prob in a pre pack deal)

I wonder what it will look like?

[marcopolosnr]

Airline Labor Unions Killing their golden goose. Frederick Dubinsky responsible for the bankruptcy of United Airlines, High Union costs destroy airline Jobs (http://www.airlinesafety.com/Unions/LaborCostsStupid.htm)

what happened before

BA Cabin Crew Strike Ballot 2009 update - British Airways' (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/statement/public/en_gb?refevent=*******)
Walsh press release
A message from Willie Walsh
You may have heard that Unite, the union that represents our cabin crew, has threatened strike action between December 22, 2009 and January 2, 2010.
Let me say immediately we will do everything we can to assist you at what will clearly be a very difficult time if strikes go ahead. We are working hard on contingency plans, and will announce them as soon as they are finalised.
We are also urging Unite to return to the negotiating table. There are important issues on which we have asked them to put forward new ideas.
Strike action is completely unjustified.
It's no secret that British Airways is in financial difficulty. Like other global airlines, we have been hit extremely hard by the slump in business travel brought on by the world recession.
We lost £400m last year and will lose at least as much this year. These are the worst financial results in our history. Our revenue is down £1 billion, so reducing costs is absolutely essential even to begin heading back toward profitability and long-term survival.
Many of my colleagues understand this. Our pilots have agreed a pay cut. Our engineers have agreed more efficient ways of working. A third of our managers have accepted voluntary redundancy. And nearly 7,000 colleagues volunteered for salary reductions because they wanted to help this great British company in a time of need.
But our cabin crew union has refused to engage in this process seriously.
My admiration for the professionalism and skills of British Airways cabin crew is second to none. They are an absolutely vital part of our airline, and a great asset. But they have been disgracefully misled by Unite as to how our company-wide cost reduction programme would affect them.
Unite claims that we are trying to "intimidate workers into accepting poorer contracts", forcing crew to leave the company, and "attacking" their pay and allowances.
This is fiction. Our package involves no reduction in terms or conditions for existing crew. Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.
In fact, despite our financial backdrop, more than 10,000 of our cabin crew will receive pay rises of between two and seven per cent this year, and again next year. In the worst recession since the Second World War, these are increases many employees in other walks of life can only dream about.
We have created opportunities for voluntary redundancy, and more than 1,000 crew have taken that option. Similarly, more than 3,000 crew have volunteered to switch to part-time working.
To accommodate these requests, we have made a small change in our onboard crew numbers from Heathrow, without affecting service standards. Our Gatwick flights have been operating on equivalent crew numbers for years - with Unite's agreement.
Unite's chief complaint seems to be that we are "imposing" the changes at Heathrow. The truth is we had been discussing them with the union for nine months but, despite all the evidence of the company's (and the industry's) financial plight, Unite would not be realistic about the clear imperative to reduce costs.
We could not wait any longer. We moved ahead, making sure that our changes were squarely based on voluntary choices for individuals.
Unite claims the changes affect contractual terms and conditions. We believe they do not. The union failed to gain an injunction to prevent their introduction, but a full court hearing to settle the contractual question has been set for February 2010.
We do not understand why Unite is threatening you with disrupted travel plans now over an issue that the courts are preparing to resolve in a few weeks.
A strike can achieve nothing except huge upset and inconvenience for you. We will do our best to provide as much help and support as we can.
Willie Walsh

Last Updated: 15:22 - 14 December 2009

[Final 3 Greens]

JSL

Please, if any of you are flying in the next couple weeks, do not tar us all with the same brush and if you do get the urge to tell us your version of some "home truths", stop and think first.

It is a shame that the LGW BA operation cannot be spun off and operate as a stand alone.

You guys down there operate a tight ship and give a good service, despite some old equipment and seemingly always gettimg the rough end of the deal.

Keep your chin up, those of us who travel regularly are aware that LGW is not a militant base :ok:

[springbok449]

knowitall has it the nail on the head....

They will let it go down and re-surface under a new name and offer new contracts to ALL employees sadly we saw this happen in Belgium and Switzerland, even Italy and Greece recently, the problem is that whoever gets re-employed will be given new T&Cs, these will be far worse than the current ones and indeed the ones that all this debacle is creating...

Think long and hard at what you are doing guys because what your dear Union man has not pointed out to you are the above consequences and it will happen.

There will be plenty of people more than happy to join the "new" BA even with the new T&Cs especially in this recession when lots of folks are jobless...

Good Luck to you all fellow colleagues.

[Finn47]

Having recently watched Finnair pilots strike and ground workers walk out, both of which did not last long, I´m amazed at the obvious hysteria here :confused: After all, it´s "just" a cabin crew strike so maybe all of you should take a breath and relax some...
Is it OK to be worried? Yes
Is it OK to be frustrated due to a change in personal travel plans? Yes
Is it OK to be hysterical about it? No, because cabin crew are replaceable and a cabin crew strike hardly ever brought an airline down :rolleyes:

[cresmer]

"Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts." Willie Walsh

Tell me, in which London bar or restaurant can Cabin Crew earn this sort of money? Maybe many should start job-searching?

I think Cabin Crew will soon realise they are much better off where they are so they should cancel their UNION-INSPIRED strike action.

[hoofie]

Thanks BA - get into LHR on 29th from Perth Oz. God knows now if I will be able to get to Glasgow - my mum hasn't seen myself or my wife/kids for four years and we only have a week with her. I can't change my booking to British Midland just in case either.

Screw BA - too many choices now. After a crap flight with them 5 years I swore I wouldn't use them again but relented - god do I rue that now.

[Papa Sierra]

Finn,
Agree with you entirely. Contrary to what they may think CC don't belong to a skilled, high tech trade group, their training is conducted over a relatively short period of time and is not particularly demanding (although most of them will have you believe it is!). There are many others out there ready and willing to change places with them and once gone you are very soon forgotten. TWA many years ago springs to mind. The only bargaining tool the Union has at the moment is the close proximity of the proposed strike action. Even the French Air Traffic Controllers wouldn't dream of holding their "annual" strike at Christmas!!!

[xyzzy]

Hoofie, the train from LHR to Glasgow is fine if you have to. Heathrow Express to Paddington, Circle Line (or a taxi if you've got a lot of luggage) to Euston/Euston Square, train direct to Glasgow. There are variations involving different combinations of underground to get to Euston. Depending on how many children you have with you ask the ticket vendor if it's worth your while buying a Family and Friends railcard for the journey: you're spending enough that the (immense) discount might cost in on a single return journey.

[Scumbag O'Riley]

Tell me, in which London bar or restaurant can Cabin Crew earn this sort of money? Maybe many should start job-searching? But that's not how it works. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate (not mine, got it from an ad in an inflight mag)

Interesting statistics from the CAA

Airline Personnel Cost (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airline_data/2008Annual/Table_1_14_Airline_Personnel_Cost_UK_and_Overseas_2008.pdf)

Which group on that list would get anywhere near that amount of money if they ended up working for anybody outside an airline? BA does stick out like a sore thumb, but even with that, it's actually probably cabin crew.

[dhc83driver]

Just a reminder to all trying to travel in europe that BA Cityflyer is still running our schedule so flights may be available from London city Airport. We operate AMS, GLA, EDI, FRA, ZRH, NCE, MAD

And Sunair to BLL

[manintheback]

After the fiasco of the CC strike in 2007 and being badly caught out by it, I just decided that for leisure use a non militant air-line and for business where someone else was paying I didnt care.

I made the right choice, no xmas screw up for me but dare say the flight will now be full.

Whatever the rights or wrongs, BA is in the endgame of its existence, a full 12 days strike on its own must eat up a substantial chunk of BAs cash reserves and with their daily losses - ouch.

[Big Bad D]

My preference for many years has always been to fly BA whenever possible, and that's my personal money - not company travel, since I have almost always felt well treated and enjoyed their service - and a significant part of this has been down to the enthusiasm and standard of the BA cabin crew.

But this strike decision has very quickly and definitively changed my view and where my money will be going for travel plans for the future.

The union and those that have voted to strike have contempt and disregard for the fare paying customers and ignorance of the level of consequential customer reaction that this will trigger. Family and friends who have flights booked (since many months) over Christmas are now stuck and facing hard and costly decisions to make alternative arrangements. Thanks, BA cabin crew!

Although I would sympathise about eroding of terms and conditions, it doesn't take a genius to look at other airlines and industries, not just aviation or service sector, and to see how they are similarly being impacted by this worldwide situation. You may not like what Willie Walsh has done, but do you seriously believe anyone else would have acted any differently to try to keep BA as a viable business?

To those concerned, I hope you enjoy your strike reflecting your union's suicide tactics and the inevitability that your redundancy is now fast approaching. To those cabin crew that have not voted to strike, but now face an even harder future, you have my sympathy.

[vulcan558xh]

Are BA operations from Gatwick and London City also going out on strike ?
Any information gratefully received

[Stop Stop Stop]

I think that the BA Cabin Crew are misguided here in voting for strike action. It really is not the time to strike over anything- particularly when BA are in such dire financial straits. This might well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. What then? A once fine airline goes to the wall- it won't be bailed out by HMG- they can't do that- it is a private company. Michael O'Leary will be waiting in the wings. All these highly trained cabin crew who are paid more than double the going rate- £60K for a CSD I ask you! How strong these unions have been over the years to get £60K for a cabin crew member- at the end of the day they are just a number 1 in any other airline. If they go to work for Michael they will find life a bit different!

I suspect that Virgin are rubbing their hands at the prospect of this strike and will be pulling their parked-up Jumbos out of the desert as we speak! Time the BA hosties wake up to the fact that they are paid extremely well- incidentally they would continue to be paid extremely well- that was never in dispute- WW was not going to cut their terms and conditions except for maybe making them work a bit harder! In my airline we now operate many flights with the minimum legal cabin crew, with the service adjusted to suit- it works amazingly- and keeps the costs down!

If these Cabin Crew bring the company down- not an unreasonable scenario- they will only have themselves to blame.

[Thunderguts]

I may have lost the plot here, but did 90% plus of the 14,000 BA cabin staff vote to go on strike, or was it 90% of the 3,000 staff who went to the meeting at Sandown?

If the latter presummeably 11,00 cabin staff will still want to work and not go on strike.

[The SSK]

BA used to be the biggest airline in Europe. As recently as 2003. In 2004 it was overtaken by Lufthansa and Air France (we’re talking passenger-kilometres here, the commonest measure of size).

In 2006, Ryanair overtook BA in total passengers boarded.
In 2007 Easyjet overtook BA in total passengers boarded.

In the meantime, Air France and KLM have joined together, and are in the process of incorporating Alitalia. Think: double the size of BA
Lufthansa has taken over Swiss and is in the process of taking over Austrian, BMI and Brussels Airlines. Think: 60% bigger than BA

Get the picture? BA is going backwards. It’s not in the same league globally as the two big players and on the shorthaul it’s being eaten alive by FR and U2. It can’t compete with these guys carrying a millstone around its neck.

As for HMG bailing out BA, get real. Alitalia and Olympic, for better or for worse (mostly worse) were instruments of national policy. Except for Concorde, BA hasn’t been an instrument of national policy for 35 years.

[Capot]

As someone who, with immense sadness and greater anger, spent yesterday rebooking many thousands of pounds worth of travel away from BA as we simply cannot afford a risk of disruption and the contractual problems and loss of business it causes, may I remind those of BA cabin staff who think a strike is a clever idea that they are almost unemployable outside their present job at any price, and certainly unemployable at the incomes they presently enjoy.

No-one's hiring. Did you notice that?

The same goes for most of BA's management, of course. But that does not justify a suicide strike which kills the airline.

I have just heard an idiot using the pseudonym of "Ben" (I think) on Radio 2 speaking for BA's striking CC; his case was no more than a feeble whinge about "erosion" over the years, followed by a denial that BA CC get £30K vs Virgin CC £14K. The right figures, he then said, are £26K for himself vs £20K for a friend in Virgin! He threatened that if crew numbers are reduced by one on some flights, economy passengers might have to get their own water. Just as as I and other pax had to do, in fact, coming back from BOM the other day, without any noticeable distress. He forgot to mention that the complement of CC is strictly regulated for safety, and that any excess is usually to allow a supervisor not to particpate in meal service and/or to beef up first class service.

Turkeys voting for Christmas seems to be the appropriate and seasonal phrase. BA simply cannot ruin 1,000,000 customers' Christmas travel plans, to say nothing of losing huge sums of their money, and stay in business. To the extent (95% so far) that we have managed to re-arrange all our travel up to March with other airlines, we are OK, but we will never go back to BA, regardess of what happens in the future, and nor will most of those very angry people.

[John R81]

As a current gold card holder, I would just like to say "it was nice knowing you". I don't need the hassel (or have time to resort my travel plans). No more revenues from me.

From now on:

transatlantic = Virgin or US carrier
Europe = BM or foreign carrier
Far East = Singapore

I assume we will read about the crews joining the dole queue after the Christmas break

[dubh12000]

As a current gold card holder, I would just like to say "it was nice knowing you". I don't need the hassel (or have time to resort my travel plans). No more revenues from me.

I think that probably goes for me too. My next flights will be to use up the auld airmiles methinks.....before they cancel that as well.

[Pinkman]

As a Gold Card holder on BA, I was surprised when I went to Rio this past September.

I travelled on the Monday from LHR, arriving in Rio the same day because of the time difference. The flight was good and the CC were, as usual, friendly and joking but with an underlying professionalism. I worked my guts out for three days and somewhat shattered got back on the plane on the Thursday night. I was stunned to get a tap on the back and see 'my' hostie from Monday address me by name, hand me my favourite drink and ask how I was. I said, "wow you guys really work hard.. four longhauls in three days" (thinking they had been back to base and back to Rio again - theoretically possible). Shrieks of laughter. They'd been on the beach, sightseeing, sugarloaf, etc etc. For three days. Nice hotel. Pool. Fed and watered. A bit of spending money. "Tell me you are winding me up" I said. But no, it was true.

Time for both the CC and Unite to get real. You cant kill the cow to have roast beef today and expect there to be milk tomorrow.

[RJ100]

vulcan558xh

BA Cityflyer crews are not part of the strike action. So all flights from LCY will be operating.

As dhc83driver already gave a list of destinations BA Cityflyer operate to from LCY I will not repeat them, however he missed out our winter ski destination of GVA (Geneva) not sure when it's starting though, but it will be in time for Christmas.

As for the LCY-JFK route: this is crewed from Gatwick, as far as I'm aware Gatwick flights for the most part should not be affected as much, as crews there are already on different contracts to those at LHR. So it seems that the LCY-JFK should be running. Not sure who to ask for a definate answer though.

Hope this is of some help to you.

RJ.

[WHBM]

What with the continuing operational losses, the excessive focus by higher management on high-yield business traffic which has now dropped away, the gross deficit in the pension fund, and now personnel who not only show no inclination to accept the cost control measures but want to hit the revenues and inconvenience the customers at a peak period for revenue traffic, the net worth of BA as am ongoing business must now be substantially negative.

So the best thing is to cut the losses quickly and go into administration. A new carrier, with new capital, a freshly-purchased new or secondhand fleet, new personnel on new Terms & Conditions, could probably be back up to about 50% of current BA volumes in two or three years. They would never get it all back but they would get a proportion, the more worthwhile bits.

Sorry shareholders, sorry existing employees, sorry those with pensions paid from a pot no longer being funded by forward operations. That's how it is when a business gets into a hole and then some of the team refuse to help get it out again. Businesses don't have to last for ever.

[fincastle84]

I'd like to congratulate BA customers services for bringing forward our LHR-CPT flights in order to avoid the strike. They also refunded my seat reservation fee & upgraded us to the Upper Deck. :ok:

As for the strike, I doubt that BA will lose many flights. The CC are rapidly realising that they have NO public support & will report for work as normal.

However, I have nothing but contempt for the Unite trade union for so callously causing so much dismay to 1000s of innocent pax. :{

[DirtyDitch]

Can anyone advise whether they have been contacted by BA yet and informed of flight cancellations or indeed whether the information is published anywhere?

[srobarts]

I think that the BA Cabin Crew are misguided here in voting for strike action.
Were they misled by the union? There was one CC interviewed on Breakfast TV today who said the only question on the ballot paper was "were they in favour of strike action" no mention of the timing of the strike nor the duration. I was served by one BA CC in my local hostelry today who confirmed the situation but felt under pressure to do what the union said.
I hope somewhere they see sense and realise that another nail in the coffin is not what is needed at the moment. How long before we see BA(2010) plc? New contracts new Ts & Cs? Just glad our Xmas arrangements don't involve travel this year.

[BEagle]

I'm not normally one to support or show much sympathy for ba ever since the 'Dirty Tricks' era, the stupid tails and finally Skippy killing the only thing which still made the airline unique - Concorde.

So, apart from a handful of inter-Germany trips, all the 500 or so business flights I've had in the last 6 years have been with Lufthansa / Star Alliance. None have been with ba....

BUT, for someone to say:
Unions say they want pax to be angry with BA.
sums up unbelievable arrogance from the pathetic 'Unite'. Everyone else in ba is belt-tightening and pulling together to try to pull out of the recessionary spiral, but the overpaid cabin crew are determined to cause the airline to go under.

The only people the 'pax' will be angry with will be the union.

I do wish ba good luck though - these posturing union idiots need a wake-up call and a sound kick up the backside.

[manintheback]

Well, with the legal action just announced looks pretty clear that Willie W is going for the ***t or bust card. Rather suspect anyone striking wil get sacked day 1 and BA will argue the toss that the strike wasnt lawful so theres no unfair dismissal involved.

[Capot]

Another quote from Unite's Gensec (yes, that's the title also used by the old Soviet Union Communist Party)

“More than nine out of ten staff are saying that what is happening is wrong — they want to be treated with dignity and respect,” he said. (Times 15 Dec)

Oh really? Over 90% think it's wrong, and then vote for it? Could one of them explain how that works?

[vulcan558xh]

My son has been talking to BA today to see if they would switch his booking Aberdeen to LHR to Gatwick; there were still seats available for the 23rd on several flights.

BA's response, no we can't switch you to another flight during the strike period but you can re-book a flight after the strike is over. This is of no use so my son then asked for a refund. Sorry no refund possible untill the flight has been oficially cancelled. On the BA website they state that they will do everything they can to assist passangers; my son's experience says otherwise. I can't see BA surviving this debacle even if its called off at the last moment.

[glad rag]

Can anyone advise whether they have been contacted by BA yet and informed of flight cancellations or indeed whether the information is published anywhere?

Nope not a squeak:*:*:*

[shobakker]

Methinks some of these pampered BA crew should try working for one of their less glamourous cousins in the charter industry - 3 days in Rio? Try 12hrs hotac in Cancun!

Surely someone in BASSA must see that this is a suicidal strike - they've already had a PR disaster within hours of announcing it and to try and tell us that they're hard done by...well it beggars belief!:rolleyes:

[manintheback]

This is of no use so my son then asked for a refund. Sorry no refund possible untill the flight has been oficially cancelled. On the BA website they state that they will do everything they can to assist passangers;

deja vu - exactly what happened to me early 2007. Non refundable tickets - couldnt get my money, and couldnt risk booking another flight in case the BA one actually went and I would have lost thousands.

[61 Lafite]

I flew more BA legs this year than I care to count.

But striking at Christmas is just plain mean.

The only response I can have is to take my business elsewhere (irrespective of the outcome) as I just don't want to fly with people who feel that is an appropriate way to treat the people who pay their salaries.

... oh - and, of course, the people who fly on my budget.

... and friends, of course - don't lets forget them.

Cabin crew who voted for a christmas strike don't deserve my ticket money.

Lafite

[ExXB]

After been on hold for a half-hour, I got through the the Executive Club. I had resolved to be as nice as possible to whomever answered because they obviously would not be having a good day. I'm travelling on redemption tickets which are 'flexible'

Got a fairly stressed out young lady and asked her about my return flight from Los Angeles on the 2nd. (I had already tried on-line to change it but the first flight available was 19 January). She said they had no information and could not say if it would operate or not. She couldn't say when she would have more information and hinted that they really didn't know what was going to happen. She couldn't find seats before 19 January and suggested I was better off holding on to what I had 'for the moment'.

So, were booked out on the 21st, but if our return doesn't look any better than that I'm going to cancel the whole trip.

I seriously doubt BA can survive 30M pounds a day for 12 days, meaning that we're stuck in LA having to find a flight back (the cheapest I've been able to find was about $2000 each on Air New Zealand). I'll probably lose the price of a couple of internal flights and I expect I'm going to lose my Taxes, Fees and Charges for my mileage tickets.

Now what would you do? Take the risk that the strike won't happen, or if it does that BA can survive?

I was nice to the young lady, but I am furious at both BA and the CC for letting it get this far. Frankly I don't care whose fault it is. For the future - ABBA Anything But British Airways.

[Callsign Kilo]

This is so short sighted it is beyond belief. I believe in collective representation, however this is holding a fledging company by the balls during a make or brake time of year. The consequences of announcing this action and indeed the depth and severety of the action must already be felt. If BA are losing an average of £1.6m a day, it will be a lot more than that soon due to an increased loss in forward bookings and cancelations. You may be lucky to have a job to return to if this goes ahead. Unreal!

I have avoided BA since 2005 after an atrocious business class experience on my honeymoon. All caused by two dinasours who had probably been hanging around BA since it was a public company. I reported both of them for the level of what I described as 'contempt' directed towards my wife and I. Probably the same pair of bolloxes that couldn't give two sh1ts if the airline is going down the tubes. As long as their vastly over inflated salaries are protected, thats all that matters here.

I hope the public gives absolutely no support to this industrial action. It disgusts me.

[willy wombat]

While the bulk of the blame for this fiasco must be heaped on the shoulders of the union and the cabin crew who voted for strike action, a lot of blame should be attached to BA management of old. When aviation was much more regulated, when Easy and Ryanair were either non existant or tiny, when Heathrow was a fortress, those managements (you know who you are) fudged pay deal after pay deal and allowed BA cabin crew to become far better paid and to be endulged with far more ludicrous working practices than any other UK carriers. They allowed this because in those days they could still make high profits in spite of their costs. It had to end sometime and, one way or the other, it looks like this is the time.

[Right Engine]

YouTube - BASSA Response (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyBRhoYR1e4)

The truth hurts!

[bigdaviet]

Anyone seen the video of when the union announce their ballot 'success?' Jubilant cheers around the room as if england have just won the world cup.

I don't know if this is cabin crew in attendance or just union officials. But whoever it is it makes me physically sick to watch it.

If its cabin crew then they dont deserve to be in employment at all, never mind at british airways.

Although I work for a certain Irish 'short haul rival,' I do not like to see british airways doing badly and it saddens me to say that if this goes ahead it could be the end of ba.

Hopefully willie walsh wins his court case.

[ExXB]

While I have a vested interest in BA getting their injunction I don't think it's very likely. Apparently there was 1000, or so, ineligible votes cast by people who no longer work for BA.

Even if you excluded 1000 positive votes you would still have a 'majority' in favour.

[wobble2plank]

According to all those on Crew Forum or the BASSA forum who are actually motivating this suicidal strike cause, you are all 100% behind the Cabin Crew as loyal customers wishing to retain the 'best service in the world' that only they can provide.

Sadly both BASSA/Unite and the management of old have perpetuated this belief for so long that some of the 'senior' crew (You know the ones, those that look disdainfully down their noses at you) have begun to believe the rhetoric.

The rest of the staff at BA do not hold the Unite/BASSA view. The rest of the staff at BA have done and are doing their utmost to prevent this bunch of complete fools from destroying the airline.

Ironically the advantage to the passengers will be that, if the airline survives this idiocy, the service to the passenger will be remarkably better without the harriden of BASSA breathing over the shoulders of the CC spitting poison on anything the company does to improve your service without the 'BASSA' seal of approval.

Stick with it. I think the next couple of days will be very, very revealing.

[Capetonian]

In response to post 162 :

The strike call was endorsed by 92.5 per cent of those who took part in a ballot of BA's 13,500 cabin crew, who are members of the trade union Unite. Eight out of ten crew voted, making it one of the most decisive calls for industrial action in recent years.

From today's Telegraph. I am a bit sceptical of this figure.

[pinkaroo]

Greetings Topbunk! I thought you had taken your cash and run? My point is any strike is calculated to threaten the bottom line.The Pilot's dispute threatened the company's financial standing and lost customers but such was the principal that Pilots decided CC could lose income whilst resisting BA management. I have no knowledge of how you voted, if you did of course, in that matter. I will assure you the Pinkaroo household did not get a vote in the current matter and will not withdraw labour. That having been said any stand against cheap foreign labour is a victory for the natives of UKplc against those who would sell us short for a fast buck. There is a plan in place to flood us with cheap labourers who have no plans to keep my country strong. Instead they encourage hotbunking cash merchants to stroll in.

[jethrobee]

I just despair! The threat of the strike is doing enough damage to the airline.

I was recently wobbling and took a trip to Australia on Cathay, rather than BA. I have had a BA Exec Gold for 10 years. I have flown 4 times with BA in the last couple of weeks, once to Boston, which was back to being fabulous, and I have just got back from Edinburgh, the crew were again fabulous, despite the backdrop of a cabin full of people reading the newspapers.....

I have to say, I am looking at booking my first trip of the new year in January, there is no way i'm going BA. I just don't trust the union, 12 days of strike is just unbelievable, I like most others cant afford to take the risk.

Most other industries are taking pay freezes at best and pay cuts at worse, its not like BA CC are having anything cut, they already earn DOUBLE rival airlines, where are they going to work when they get their way and the airline goes down the tube? Do they expect someone else to walk in and take over the airline and not change their T&C's to be more in line with the rest of the industry?

I'm just so angry about this situation, as you can probably tell. It just makes no sense, talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[747 jock]

I'm currently working for a very large helicopter operating company who must buy well in excess of 5000 airline tickets per year. (At a guess, I would estimate that 20% of these were BA).
We have now been told that when applying for tickets, BA are no longer to be used due to the possible problems, and this will continue even when the strike is over.

I'm sure that there must be many businesses who will do the same, as well as many private individuals.
You can only screw your customers so many times, and IMO, BA will get what it deserves from this latest folly.

[vanHorck]

The politics of it all is what is stunning.....

The strike is called, but the 12 day Xmas strike was not on the ballot paper. Politics?
The pension deficit is no where to be found anymore in the press. Politics too or coincidence?
The T5 disaster is now all but forgotten and contrary to then, WW is now the victim not the culprit.

It s all very unique and exceptionally high stakes.

Respect for the upset CC who are volunteering to come back from holiday to save the company and in the process their jobs and those of others.

[apaddyinuk]

Im BA crew, Im not a moron, Im not stupid, Im not niave, Im bloody good at my job, the vast vast vast majority of the people I work with are bloody good at their jobs (I can count on one hand the amount of crew I have seen be rude to a passenger in ten years), Passengers get off flights im on happy, Im a good soul, Im educated (have a business degree) and I believe in fighting to maintain my standard of living. Im sure you all would do the same and I am sure you would hate people generalising and calling you names in public for doing so!

Might I add, I earn nowhere near the figures being quoted in the press (by Willie...how unprofessional of him), I have a family too which is being destroyed by this shambles of a situation, I will stand up to the bullies and shame on so many of you for your ignorant comments...

For the record....YOU CANNOT BE SACKED FOR LEGAL STRIKE ACTION!

Also...you cant shut down an airline and restart it the next day! FACT

[Rusland 17]

The pension deficit is no where to be found anymore in the press. Politics too or coincidence?Where did you get that idea from? It was covered extensively in yesterday's press - in the Guardian, the Telegraph, the Times and Financial Times, amongst others - and on television.

[Rusland 17]

For the record....YOU CANNOT BE SACKED FOR LEGAL STRIKE ACTION!No, you can't.

But has it escaped your attention that, in the midst of the greatest downturn in the fortunes of the aviation industry in history, and with low-cost airlines taking passengers from the legacy carriers in droves, your employer is losing hundreds of millions of pounds a year. Already, thousands of people are cancelling their plans to fly with BA and booking with other carriers: as a result, those carriers will survive this recession while your company may not. Then how proud will you be of your little strike?

[The Real Slim Shady]

Also...you cant shut down an airline and restart it the next day! FACT

Quite right: you shut it down on a Friday morning and restart on a Monday morning.

Simples.

[cresmer]

With that sort of attitude, it is clear paddyinuk is truly a part of the problem. He/she can complain all he/she likes about pay and conditions but I am certain BA's pay and conditions are much better than no pay and no conditions. And that must surely be what many will soon face? BA will never try to sack someone for going on strike. There are far subtler ways of trimming a workforce that appears hell bent on the demise of its employer.

[screwballburling]

Airline 12 days grounded? I suspect that will be the end of BA as we know it. No outfit can take that sort of a hit and get up running.

Talk about turkeys voting for Christmas!

Sabena pilots tried that a few years ago and bought the airline down with them. Pushed the self-destruct button they did.

There still does seem to be a culture among "flag carrier" employees, they're untouchable and irreplaceable.

Whiskers will be happy of course, among others.

[Final 3 Greens]

I believe in fighting to maintain my standard of living. Im sure you all would do the same

As my income is linked directly to how well my clients think of me, surprisingly enough my primary aim is on satisfying their needs and keeping my name at the top of their 'buy' list for next time.

[Seat62K]

apaddyinuk,

Instead of simply writing "I earn nowhere near the figures quoted in the press", please post an average for your net monthly pay (including allowances) over the last year and let us judge.

(I've seen the official data on average expenditure per cabin attendant for UK airlines and it gives a figure of £29.9k for BA. The next highest paying airline, easyJet, is £20.2k! Now these data probably include employer NI and pension contributions and other airlines might employ a higher proportion of part-timers but, even so, the gap between BA and all other UK airlines is, rightly or wrongly, remarkable.)

The fact that you have a degree is irrelevant. I have five years' university education but I would not expect my employer to pay me more than a non-graduate if I was a waiter in a restaurant (for example).

Some would argue that if you want a better paid job you should put your degree to good use and work elsewhere!

I'd be very surprised if the vast majority of BA cabin crew could earn as much for the skills they have if they were to seek employment elsewhere.

I think, legal or not, striking workers can be dismissed as they are breaking the terms of their contracts of employment.

[Dan Air 87]

This reminds me of the bad old days of the 1970's; silly stupid strikes for which there is no comeback. I don't know which planet the CC and their unions are living on but they should -in this climate- be very thankful for what they have got. they have a job with brilliant perks and a pension.

Outside in the real world, employees are taking a wage cut to save their jobs and keep the staff from joining the massed ranks of the unemployed.

The strike will cripple BA but the damage has already been done. But I am a loyal customer and will not defect to the other airlines simply because BA CC do a bloody good job. There is no competition there. And it grieves me to see the good airline being dragged down in this manner. For heavens sake, the unions should wake up, realise this is 2009 and not 1970 and back down.

[Malone]

apaddyinuk,
I think that an airline can be shut down in a day, doesn't their licence just get revoked when they are insolvent?
Your attitude reminds me of a comment I heard once from an ex-BCal employee, "Now BCal, that was a real airline." What happened to them?
Also, can anyone tell me what the CSD's used to do for all those hours when they weren't expected to help in the cabin?
Have a good day.

[L'aviateur]

Whilst I have nothing against Cabin Crew, the salaries they are expecting are rather ridiculous. The job is not a profession, yet they are demanding a salary far in excess of NHS Nurses for having done a three week course and then doing a fairly routine job, albiet having some challenges. Supply and demand suggests you pay people what they are worth...
If the other airlines are paying less, how can BA remain competitive.

Unfortunately the damage has been done, and Unite may be responsible for a lot of a damage, which if BA goes under will affect many families.

This strike is the wrong type of action at the wrong time of year, a big mistake has been made and nobody has any sympathy for you.

As other posters have mentioned; our company travel agent has banned all BA flights too, and my last employer who is one of the airlines biggest companies has cancelled all BA flights indefinately...

[Theviewdownhere]

apaddyinuk

As SLF caught up in this mess, I would like to add my congratulations to your colleagues who voted no. If my flights proceed, I will be leading the applause to all of them on my flights.

apaddyinuk, your actions have now put you and your co-workers in a perilous position, and less important, but significant to me, my Christmas with my family in doubt.

I say take a long hard look at yourself and what consequences this may have. Many of us over the last year have had to take redefined T&Cs and cuts in pay, just to remain in work. These are difficult times! What makes you so different?

[Metro man]

I've just accepted a pay cut, but got a new three year contract (as a non BA pilot). I would rather have a job on reduced conditions for a while then be out of work. See how much respect you get when you are unemployed and knocking on doors, see if anyone is matching the conditions on offer at BA as well.

Now is not the right time to be militant over working conditions. Once the current crisis is over and if profits are being made again, feel free to seek improvements.

However the industry has changed, I compare BA cabin crew to printers during the 1980s, vastly over paid and under worked with ridiculous conditions. Then Eddie Shah came along with the TODAY newspaper.......

Didn't some thing similar happen in aviation with Michael O'Leary and a small Irish charter company ?

[manintheback]

For the record....YOU CANNOT BE SACKED FOR LEGAL STRIKE ACTION

er - yes you can. A legal tribunal down the road may agree you were unlawfully sacked - but sacked you will have been. For sure compensation will be awarded but you wont get your job back.

I think its pretty obvious WW is planning to do this - ordinarily he would get slated in the press for carrying out such an action but the spin of stopping people christmases from being ruined will suffice to let BA win the media war and WW to come out of it reputation enhanced with the City

Be careful..

[openfly]

Paddyintheuk....what a despicable post. I hope you realise that you will probably be out of work in a few days time. When you start working for a loco, if they will have you, you will realise just how lucky you were to have a job with BA!

[747 jock]

Im not a moron, Im not stupid, Im not niave

You might not be, and you might be very intelligent, but it's obvious from your comment below that you have absolutely no idea of how your customers and now ex-customers feel about this strike.

and shame on so many of you for your ignorant comments...



If BA cabin crew want to strike, fair enough.
For chosing to do it at such short notice at one of the busiest times of the year when it will affect families far more than businesses, you and your company deserve everything that happens, and the sooner that BA go under and let a decent airline take their place, the better for everyone.

[srobarts]

BA Christmas strike 'over the top' Unite union boss admits - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6823326/BA-Christmas-strike-over-the-top-Unite-union-boss-admits.html)
This says it all if the Unite boss thinks the strike is over the top why doesn't the union just stop digging BAs grave.

[Andy_S]

I believe in fighting to maintain my standard of living. Im sure you all would do the same

In principle, yes, but most of us are pragmatic enough to recognise that 90% of something is better than 100% of nothing at all.

One of the most infuriating things about BA CC attitude is that at a time when unemployment is high and rising and tens of thousands live in constant fear of redundancy, you simply don't recognise how well off you are.

There are many, many people out there who would willingly accept extra hours, extra responsibilities or salary reduction if it kept them in employment. Yet your only concern is maintaining your lifestyle.

The irony is that you're not even having your salary reduced! (Even though your union offered this). You just have to work a little bit harder, just like your competitors, and just as your colleagues at Gatwick have been doing for some while. Can you see why the public see this strike as an act of monumental self indulgence?

[TightSlot]

Posts that are abusive of other users will be deleted: Posts that contribute nothing to the debate beyond spreading or inciting hate will be deleted. Forum access, viewing and posting rights for the Passengers & SLF forum for the offender will be removed.

No further warnings will be issued.

[easy1]

I have worked for easyJet for 6 years, never went for sccm because it doesn't appeal to me.
I have just gone through my past pay slips and the highest I have ever been paid in the last 6 years was £16,000.

For the work I do I think it is a very nice pay deal!! Do I want a bit more, hell yes! So do you know what I am doing about it, resting my Maths GCSE so I all 5 GCSE A-C, then putting my application in for the air force, where over a period of time, I will learn a new skill and will be rewarded financially and my skill and experience improves.

As cabin crew I can not understand why you are doing this to yourselves, have a look at the job market at the minute, there isn't a lot out there.
But on the other hand I must thank you, because I will now be much busier over the xmas period!

[Fake Sealion]

For the record....YOU CANNOT BE SACKED FOR LEGAL STRIKE ACTION

er - yes you can. A legal tribunal down the road may agree you were unlawfully sacked - but sacked you will have been. For sure compensation will be awarded but you wont get your job back.

I think its pretty obvious WW is planning to do this - ordinarily he would get slated in the press for carrying out such an action but the spin of stopping people christmases from being ruined will suffice to let BA win the media war and WW to come out of it reputation enhanced with the City

Be careful..

Is there a precedent in the UK for such a mass sacking, or at least a threat of it?

If the sacking threat is made, then surely the reality will be that those who fail to show up for their shift will claim they are sick. Result -most flights are still grounded BUT with thousands of pax in Terminals around the globe clutching their apparently valid tickets ! Will WW risk that one?

[Moonraker One]

BA cabin crew go for it. You can win. Who cares what the passengers think?

Enjoy a Christmas at home with your family or a management climb down.

Sounds like win/win to me. :ok:

[manintheback]

Is there a precedent in the UK for such a mass sacking, or at least a threat of it?

If the sacking threat is made, then surely the reality will be that those who fail to show up for their shift will claim they are sick

Yes and as recently as June this year. 900 got the boot at an oil company (all re-instated after negotiations though). I would rather suspect going sick on the day of the strike would lead to the same outcome - large companies can be pretty ruthless. Act now, clear up the mess later.

[GarageYears]

"cabin crew go for it. You can win. Who cares what the passengers think?

Enjoy a Christmas at home with your family or a management climb down"

Yeah, enjoy Christmas, and New Year at home and while you are at it the day after, that, and the one after, that, etc. Because that's where you will be if this nonsense continues. At home, or perhaps the local unemployment office. :ugh:

I haven't flown BA in 5 years now, due to old aircraft, less than fantastic service, oh, and two flights that got canceled, due back then to "lack of available crew...", and right now I'm very glad my wife is flying back from the UK on United on the 22nd. :ok:

[driftdown]

How about this.

1) Negotiations are spun out for a number of months
2) Changes imposed in November knowing full well the CC will probably vote for strike action.
3) Having had the ballot with a vote for strike action there is a defined window for the strike to take place
4) Much travel over Christmas period is non-Business thus a strike will have minimal effect on the premium fare payers
5) Maximum outrage from the leisure travel passengers ensure plenty of publicity

Coincidence or management manipulation

Cynical ... Moi !!!!!!

[Ancient Observer]

The average pay for BA cabin crew is £29,900, according to the UK Civil Aviation Authority. This compares with an average of £20,200 at easyJet and £14,400 at Virgin Atlantic Airlines. At XL Airways (now closed) UK crew received an average of £6,900.
But wages among BA’s 13,500 cabin crew are far from uniform. The majority work out of Heathrow, where they earn far more than colleagues at Gatwick. Long-haul staff receive several thousand pounds more than those working short-haul routes.


The wages paid to cabin crew on board a single aircraft also vary wildly. The most senior grade, cabin services directors, earn basic pay of £38,006, which is almost £20,000 higher than the average pay of the main crew.
When allowances for overtime and food are included, the most senior crew earn an average of £56,325 on long-haul flights, which includes £18,319 in allowances. Pursers earn £49,810, including £17,670 in allowances. Main crew earn £34,980, including £16,287 in allowances.
This compares with £27,422 paid to BA crew managers working out of Gatwick, £23,778 to pursers flying from there and £18,323 for main crew.
The company says that cabin crew working on a four-day return flight between Heathrow and Tokyo receive £935 in allowances on top of their salary every time they make the trip. Those on a six-day return trip to Shanghai receive £866 in allowances.

[ManofMan]

I still cant believe for one minute that anyone thinks this strike will go ahead, the first sign of a back down by both parties was announced this morning with a meeting at 1530 GMT today.

Strike will be suspended pending further talks....just wait and see.

[Scumbag O'Riley]

I doubt this will be sorted unless one side capitulates and both sides have mandates not to capitulate. Seems like both sides are playing to the court of public opinion, BA have been doing this from the start of course, just took the union a bit to catch up.

If BA capitulates they are stuffed. If the cabin crew capitulate then BA will still not have won as they have the other employee groups to deal with. And even if BA sort their employee cost-base problems out, the elephant in the room is the still the pension deficit.....

BA have The Establishment on their side which might be what makes the difference.

[Ancient Observer]

In any Industrial Action, the individuals involved "dig their trenches" and effectively closer thier ears to the other side.
They also become emotive, and far more attached to the "cause" than to any rational reason for doing what they are doing. I'm afraid that it is not nice to hear the word "hate", but parties to serious IR disputes do tend to grow more hateful to each other over time.
(All this is well researched - Google John Purcell, who's forgotten more about IR than most of us will ever learn).

However, in the case of some BA CC - but not many, I guess, their distance from the reality that their pax currently "enjoy" is astounding.

There is one in The Times this morning with arrogance that knows no boundaries. "This is BA, not Easyjet, you know".

Talk about living in the past! Easyjet's Cabin service in the back end is, and has always been, far superior to BA's. I've experienced both, and EZY's is much better.

BA CC like that need to fly EZY to find out some facts. ...........and, of course, EZY is at least as safe as BA, and has newer/better planes.

[lowcostdolly]

As I'm sitting here just about to cancel my flight over Xmas with BA to JER and booking with FlyBe at a much greater cost as we are now so close note to self now as SLF.....Never ever book with BA again even if they are giving away the seat which they practically were when I booked.

The service on FlyBe on this route is delivered with much better grace and much newer aircraft but for a 35 minute flight I don't care about that. I just want to get from A to B reliably and preferably cheaply. I put price above reliability on this occasion.....never again.

Wake up BA crew who voted yes!! You are nothing special. As CC we are all paid to be on board for what we know and can do in an emergency situation. As such we are all trained to the same standards as laid down by the CAA so therefore should all be paid the same according to our grade.

Granted a BA PU works a lot harder physically on the service on board than I do.....I am an EZY PU. My earnings last year were just under £22,000 including allowances but some of my role equates to what your CSD's do being in overall charge.

BA are not even trying to cut your PU pay of nearly £50K they are just asking that you work a bit harder. Some would say this is working Smarter.

Wake up People......the dinosaurs were obliterated by one meteoric strike. Their seems to be a lot of dinosaurs at BA......:eek:!

[Seat62K]

Ancient Observer,

I think you may be wrong in referring to the CAA data as "average pay"; they are for "average expenditure", which I think probably includes employers' NI and pension contributions.

The data I have seen do not tell us the full-time/part-time mix of cabin attendants so need to be treated with caution.

[manintheback]

I still cant believe for one minute that anyone thinks this strike will go ahead, the first sign of a back down by both parties was announced this morning with a meeting at 1530 GMT today.

Strike will be suspended pending further talks....just wait and see.


I think BA want the strike. Bassa have made a huge mistake to strike for such a long period and over Xmas. Should have waited and carried out on-going tactical action.

Its the endgame. Bassa know that if BA win or the airline goes belly up - either way same result for Bassa - the end. BA believe they have to take care of Bassa once and for all to allow the airline to prosper. Its winner take all and no fudging.

I believe Walsh will press the nuke button on those who go out on strike and suffer the inconveniance of limited legal actions later - by the time that happens he will probably have got a new job anyway and who knows what new laws the next government might bring in to negate employee legal actions anyway - assuming its the Tories, they tend to be rather pro employer.

[lowcostdolly]

Manintheback I think you are right. WW is fearless here. Furthermore I think he will sack these people not for going on strike but for an "irretrievable breakdown in the working relationship". Given BA have tried to engage I don't think he will have too much of a problem on this and it is a valid reason for dismissal.

However even if he fails on this and is deemed guilty of unfair dismissal at tribunal does he care about the nominal payouts he will have to make at some distant point in the future? I don't think so compared to what he will save on the T&C's of these people now. And let's not forget about the huge hold pool of prospective CC BA has. None of which have any T&C's to date....

I could be wrong of course but in the meantime BA are fast loosing custom and I have just guarenteed my Xmas.....by booking with another carrier.

Are there any real winners here :confused:

[atmosphere]

Ok, So I have been looking at the BBC website, I know they are not the best at getting aviation related stories correct BUT

They say 1million pax will be affected with 650 flights cancelled.

1,000,000pax / 650cancellations = 1538 / flight ? What planes do BA have again

Also they are saying 650 flights canx thats only 54 a day? that makes no sense either.

So does anyone actually know the full extent of the impact of this strike, because I think someone has got the number wrong, or maybe I am wrong, but would like clarification either way.

BBC News - British Airways meets union for strike talks (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8415370.stm)

I fully support a strike by BA, it's about time someone finally buggered things up for the overpaid, underworked crew, spend the day working for a normal airline and I bet you go back to BA with your tail between your legs!
If there is any BA left!

[fly12345]

Poll: Who's to blame for the British Airways strike? | Business | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/poll/2009/dec/16/british-airways-strike-poll)

[El Grifo]

As I said earlier on the thread, Standard operating procedures in practice.

BA need to cut cabin Staff costs and they have chosen the well worn path.

Watch the space :ugh:

[Scumbag O'Riley]

...Furthermore I think he will sack these people not for going on strike but for an "irretrievable breakdown in the working relationship".I reckon you could be on the right track in that he will have crunched the numbers and worked out whether it is cheaper to keep them on or fire them. He doesn't have to come up with a clever way to get rid of them though. If they don't turn up for work they are in breach of contract and can be dismissed. It will be an unfair dismissal if in the first 12 weeks, and loss of earnings and compensation will be ordered by a tribunal. He will have worked out what the payback period will be if he hires new staff at a lower salary. I reckon he will be quids in within five years, a short timeframe when you look at how may years it's going to take to top up that pension fund.Given BA have tried to engage I don't think he will have too much of a problem on this and it is a valid reason for dismissal.Well, all we know is what the two sides are telling us, and I would be surprised if either were telling the truth.are there any winners hereFrom a passengers point of view it would be nice to see BA reduced in size, I think passengers would win if that happened, they have abrand spanking new terminal at LHR and it is a shame to have it wasted on this lot.

[atmosphere]

Globespan just went bust, and you are about to strike! ridiculous! :mad: :ugh:

[dubh12000]

Poll: Who's to blame for the British Airways strike? | Business | guardian.co.uk

Some very deluded comments there under the Poll. I love the one about Willie Walsh destroying Aer Lingus after 9/11. Jesus wept....

[Rusland 17]

Ok, So I have been looking at the BBC website, I know they are not the best at getting aviation related stories correct BUT

They say 1million pax will be affected with 650 flights cancelled.

1,000,000pax / 650cancellations = 1538 / flight ? What planes do BA have again

Also they are saying 650 flights canx thats only 54 a day? that makes no sense either.And directly below those figures on the BBC website it states "Source: BA". So blaming the BBC for the figures is unreasonable.

Perhaps it's 650 flights per day? That would make more sense, averaging out at 128 passengers per flight.

[Anansis]

Perhaps it's 650 flights per day? That would make more sense, averaging out at 128 passengers per flight.

Given the fact that Heathrow has a departure every two minutes at its peak, and half the slots belong to BA, I'd say you are right.

[mrangar]

I usually book on British Airways to travel between the US and India because:
1. Convenient connections from Heathrow
2. Efficient cabin crew who are very helpful when travelling with children - None of the singapore airlines glamour but you all get the job done well!
3. Price isn't the cheapest but it is reasonable
4. Terminal 5 has significantly reduced connection pains through Heathrow

Next time, all these factors are going to be trumped by one - Does the airline have militant unions that are unreasonable and willing to put their passengers through hell for their demands to be met?
I'm afraid that answer is going to remove BA from my list of probable airlines as long as BASSA exists in its current form.

Thanks,

A Frequent BA SLF

[sea oxen]

1,000,000pax / 650cancellations = 1538 / flight ? What planes do BA have again

Check out their seat pitch in their longhaul economy :)

I do not mind that they are (seemingly) the best-paid of the bunch. Someone has to be. However, undermining the company for which they work in such a sensitive manner will make me shy away from them as my carrier of choice, despite having been an ardent fan in the past.

If WW is right and he breaks them, the passengers will eventually return - most are just farewhores anyway. And even when I travel on business these days, I am compelled to be a farewhore too.

It is saddening, however, to think how many people have had their plans thrown into jeopardy, especially as this is not exactly the least expensive time of year to fly.

SO

[chippy63]

Suggs,
I agree with you. I'm a BA gold card holder, do most of my flights from LGW, and find the people excellent.

[OCCR]

Good on you BA Cabin crew.
Im with you all the way!
Good luck, and good on you for having the balls to do it.
I have only slightly read this thread and from my observations you deserve every red cent for putting up with some of these pr..........

:ok::ok:

[crewmeal]

I bet many people who have commented on here earn far more than BA crew do. Has anyone stopped to work out how BA salaries are structured?

1. Basic pay is anything from £12k upwards - (this may include increments) so if you don't fly for any reason that is all you will get.

2. Allowances which are based on the cost of living of the Country you fly to.

3. Overtime, again depending on the length of the flight which is only triggered after 9 hours I guess. When I flew for BA my take home pay varied anything from £1000 - £1500 per month

Compare that with industry then it's not too different. Basic salary + overtime + bonus + other perks.

The other thing that comes to mind is that Virgin consider you over the hill around 35 and put you out to grass! In BA you can fly until you retire. In BA you will have earned your increments like most Companies.

Am I far off the mark?

[wiggy]

Yep, you're pretty wide of the mark, because the strike isn't about pay....

[Scumbag O'Riley]

So why is BA constantly telling us how much cabin crew are paid?

[kaikohe76]

Perhaps it might help if Ryanair made a bid to take over BA. Just think about it folks, if the so called` World's favourite Airline` keeps going the way it is at present, it will have few pax & may well cease to exist.

[Capot]

Good on you BA Cabin crew.
Im with you all the way!
Good luck, and good on you for having the balls to do it.

I suspect an alc-fuelled wind-up; but here's another message for the brave lads and lasses. Who in Unite's headquarters will join you in the dole queue, when BA downsizes or goes out of business as a direct consequence of your suicide strike? Why not ask them about that. And about why they've manipulated you into a strike.

I'll wave cheerily to your pickets on the way in to LHR, (twice over the strike period, rebooked as soon as a risk of disruption loomed) but it's a "goodbye for ever" wave. If the tactic was to get passengers mad enough to force the management's hand, it's gone spectacularly wrong. They are not going to force anyone's hand, they are simply going elsewhere, and they will never come back.

Calling it all off now won't make any difference. Nor will any decision about legality. The damage is done. You might as well take the 12 days off unpaid while they write out the P45s.

[jetset lady]

As I'm sitting here just about to cancel my flight over Xmas with BA to JER and booking with FlyBe at a much greater cost as we are now so close note to self now as SLF.....Never ever book with BA again even if they are giving away the seat which they practically were when I booked.

Considering how often you have waffled on about what you consider to be, our so called "unsafe" procedures, I'm amazed you'd booked with us at all. Then again, you've also said the same about so many other airlines that I guess you're running out of options!



Granted a BA PU works a lot harder physically on the service on board than I do.....I am an EZY PU. My earnings last year were just under £22,000 including allowances but some of my role equates to what your CSD's do being in overall charge.

BA are not even trying to cut your PU pay of nearly £50K they are just asking that you work a bit harder. Some would say this is working Smarter.


Bearing in mind that you are flying LGW-JER, you will be well aware that we are on entirely different contracts to LHR. In fact, we have been working with the currently disputed crewing levels for the past three years. You will also be well aware that our salaries in no way compare to those up the road. Ancient Observer is pretty close to the mark for full time crew. You may be pleased to know that, as an EZY PU, you earnt more than I did as a full time BA PU. (Just over 21,000 last year inc allowances.) But never let the truth get in the way of a good story, hey lowcostdolly?

It's thanks to spiteful little people like you, those that do know some of the facts, but choose to focus on the headline figures instead, that we are now getting so much abuse as we go about our job. Did you know that there is a shop, local to LGW airport, that has put up a sign saying "No BA Staff" on the door? Ironically, his shop is frequented mostly by LGW crew, the very same crew that are, in the majority, not only working through the strike, but have also offered to also work days off to try to get as many people to their destinations as possible, including him! To a point, he can be forgiven for not knowing any better. You can't!

If you want to spout off, at least try to be balanced about it, lowcostdolly.

Jsl

[Andy_S]

So why is BA constantly telling us how much cabin crew are paid?

It's part of the PR war. They want the general public (many of whom will be living in fear of redundancy) to see what a self indulgent act the strike actually is.

[Capot]

a shop, local to LGW airport, that has put up a sign saying "No BA Staff"To a point, he can be forgiven for not knowing any better.Funny how BA CC can be patronising, even when they're angry!

Did you ask him, Jetset Lady, if he is one of the victims of this suicidal, stupid affair?

Perhaps he, or a friend or relative, has lost thousands of pounds and has every justification for abusing BA staff. That's why you're being abused. It's not because of the lies being bandied about by both sides about your pay.

Perhaps not; the point is that it didn't even occur to you to find out, did it?

[jetset lady]

Actually, yes he is one of the victims. He's booked on one of our New York flights. And I can completely understand his feelings. However, the point I was trying to make is that he, unlike lowcostdolly, would probably not be aware that most of his BA customers are from LGW and have volunteered to work their days off and leave, to try to keep as many aircraft in the air as they can. Why would he know? He's not an industry insider and, presumably, can only go by what he see's in the media. That is not a criticism! Lowcostdolly, on the other, claims to be an industry insider and therefore does know better, yet can't wait to stir the pot.

I'd love for the truth regarding LGW to reach the media, so this gentleman and others like him, could be better informed, but the media aren't interested. There's no mind blowing figures to throw into the headlines. We're just a little base, usually forgotten about, doing our best to get our passengers, ourselves and ultimately, our airline through this disgrace of a dispute.

The only reason I even mentioned pay, for the first time I may add, is because lowcostdolly was implying that I'm sitting there, in my ivory jumpseat on 50K a year!


Perhaps not; the point is that it didn't even occur to you to find out, did it?


And you wonder why I'm angry? You call me patronising, then make assumptions like the above!

Actually, lets change that. I'm not angry at all. I'm downright furious with the unions, along with being upset, scared and demoralised. It's not just the passengers that have been dragged into this dispute. There are a lot of hardworking crew and staff that are also stuck in the middle. I'm sorry if you have taken that as my being patronising.

Jsl

[lowcostdolly]

JSL the last time you personally attacked me on this topic a warning was issued by Flapsforty. I note Tightslot is off line at the moment so maybe I should remind you of what Flapsforty said as you seem to have forgotten it.......play the ball don't kick the player!

I am well aware LHR contracts are different and they are what I was referring to. I'm also aware crewing levels are different at LGW.

My point as you seem to have missed it through your red mist is that a LHR/LGW Pu is onboard for exactly the same purpose according to the CAA. They may well have different service responsibilities but does that really warrant a salary difference for the grade of over £20,000 especially in these economic times. The ironic thing is WW it seems does not even want to touch their salaries......he is just expecting them to work for it.

You want a bit of balance well how is this? One of my best friends is a Monarch PU at LGW. She earns a lot more than me but a lot less than your LHR colleagues. Many have been asked to take voluntary redundancy. She is currently working on a 8/4 contract and all PU's/No 1's have taken a 10% paycut. Some may have to work as main crew next summer. All this is to support the company in difficult times. They have not striked or whinged about it on public forums or in the press, they have just got on with it. A testament to their professionalism I feel.

So you feel I'm "spiteful" again another personal attack. Well for the record when I saw the shop you refer to on the Meridian news I was appalled. However you might also want to remember the televised scenes we saw the other day at the UNITE ballot for strike action......absolute jubilation!! Maybe he reacted to that.

BA crew intentionally jeopardising Xmas for it's pax and being so happy about is IMHO about as spiteful as it gets.

Also to all of you who have not supported this action which I believe you are one I truly hope you are all OK for the future. I feel for any crew whose jobs are in jeopardy in this economic climate.......unless it is of their own making. We are all lucky to have jobs at present.

[Final 3 Greens]

JSL

Just another note of support to you and your colleagues at Gatwick, who have never been militant and have always done a great job with constrained resources.

[dollydaydream]

Can I ask - have BA actually cancelled any flights yet? Just how have people 'lost' thousands of pounds?
It never ceases to amaze me how people are so ready to believe all the negativity from the media - does anyone except the taxman really know how much an individual really earns! I have friends at LHR (old contract) who tell me they earn considerably less than is being bandied about in the press and I have friends at LGW who earn more than has been mentioned on this forum.
I am not saying I support the strike but I really think the facts should be taken from the people in the know not from some hysterical media article or an anonymous post on an internet forum.

[Tercarley]

crewmeal

Virgin do not put you out to grass as you so eloquently put it (lol) once you are over 35, there are plenty of CC there that are over that age my son being one of them! One thing they do not get like BA crews do though is these £900 trip allowances when they do a Tokyo and I know that Tokyo is not the only route that BA get those enhanced allowances on.

They also dont get these long layovers down route like BA do. They work just as hard with less crew on flights - if they can do it so should you!!!!!

[jetset lady]

F3G,

Thanks. I can assure you, it's very much appreciated! We're fighting a losing battle down here, as public perception has, understandably, bundled us all up into one group.

Jsl

[dollydaydream]

Don't be ashamed JSL, keep on doing a good job - bit of a cliche but those newspapers are tomorrows chip papers!