View Full Version : JQ to start Tulla - Brisbane from JUL10

13th Dec 2009, 22:25
Came through on Jetmail this morning, MEL to BNE from 1st July 2010 I think. JQ will continue to operate AVV to BNE as well, but is obviously the Qantas Group's competitive response to Tiger.

14th Dec 2009, 22:55
How nervous are 737 drivers in Qantas these days?
If it's not Jetstar it's Jetconnect!;:eek:

15th Dec 2009, 00:18
How nervous are 737 drivers in Qantas these days?

Why do you say that? :confused:

I just booked and paid for my Wife to fly down to MEL and back in March 2010, supposed to be definitely QF and a B737. :confused:

15th Dec 2009, 03:55
If it's not Jetstar it's Jetconnect!;

Or maybe it's TIGER..... If they weren't expanding there would be no need for the growth of the QF LCC's.

Hi airsupport,
the flights start in July, so I think you're safe !

15th Dec 2009, 04:03
Airsupport I think this goes someway towards portraying what Qantas 737 drivers are worried about, that their union that appears quite happy to adopt the foetal position when it comes to negotiating with management.

Jetstar smells Tiger blood

December 14, 2009 – 12:05 pm, by Ben Sandilands (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/author/bensandilands/)
There is so much more to this morning’s announcement that Jetstar will fly multi-daily between BOTH Melbourne airports and Brisbane from July 1.
This is Jetstar v Everyone. That is, Qantas (who owns it) and higher cost Qantas pilots, flight attendants and managers, Virgin Blue and especially the Singapore Airlines controlled Jetstar clone, Tiger.
Officially, the initial Jetstar flights between the main airport at Tullamarine and Brisbane are described as ‘complementing’ the full service Qantas Cityflyer services.
But talking to Qantas pilots recently, who are acutely aware of what they see as a management agenda to transfer their pay and conditions to the much lower rewards offered by Jetstar, this about their removal from the profit and loss account.
They are very unhappy. However Qantas domestic is either in or near to the ‘loss’ side of the ledger on the most recent comments from management, and Jetstar is decidedly on the ‘profit’ as well as growth side.
This could be argued as being much more important to Qantas than meeting the Tiger challenge, since its last balance sheet (http://media.crikey.com.au/dm/newsletter/dailymail_61e52d6cd4ac7e491d78010b495742c1.html#article_567) makes it clear it is its own worst enemy.
For non Crikey subscribers, the story concluded that Tiger was covering its losses and running costs from sales of tickets for future flights, and that so long as it continues to expand forward sales all will be well.
Unfortunately for Tiger, this gives Jetstar the scent of blood, and the predator becomes the prey. Tiger had cash cover of just over 11 days for its declared operating costs at the end of last March, and with its enormous commitments for new jets in the future, clearly needs the $US 500 million IPO it has admitted ‘considering’ taking to market in the New Year.
Based on its posted revenue and costs figures, but with uncertainty as to whether it is actually paying for its aircraft leases or what its actual cost per available seat kilometres is, Tiger is earning double digit negative returns on the fares it collects.
This can only be tolerated by Tiger’s owners for so long. For Qantas, faced with a clear world wide trend to the low fare model over shorter haul flights, the real issue is to Jetstarise the costs of the parent company’s domestic operations, using the excuse the smart Singapore investors in Tiger have so generously provided.

15th Dec 2009, 04:18
Okay. :ok:

Perhaps someone should tell Qantas, I just started another booking for August, but didn't complete it, the Qantas booking site is still showing flights in August 2010 operating with QF B737-800s. :confused:

Angle of Attack
15th Dec 2009, 05:49
Hi airsupport,

I don't have a link to the article but I read it this morning, maybe the initial poster can put a link up? But the news item is not saying all flights will be Jetstar BNE-MEL, it quoted they would be doing 2 flights a day from July 2010. Just like they do a few SYD-BNE a day now and BNE-CNS etc. Cheers!:ok:

15th Dec 2009, 05:50
i'm not 100% sure but if you check the T&C's of an airfare the airline does not guarantee the A/C type. I am fairly sure they would be required to depart/arrive at compairable times (which they would). It'd be all listed in the chicago convention.

This whole debarcle really has me miffed. I don't post here much, but really, all we want as pilots (and correct me if I'm wrong) is to be treated fairly. I don't want to be a multi millionaire. I sure as hell wouldn't have stick it out in this industry for as long as I have if i did want $$$$$. Sure I want to recover my large amount of coin I invested by myself many moons ago, but lets face it, once we are up there its follow the magenta line, call it IBABI then at GUGAB contact centre, then drink some food, then hold VREF + 10, retard thrust, check the attitude, land. Now I know that'll anger some people, I have had an engine failure, just lucky I had another 7000 lbs to keep me going up, that is when we make our money. Lets just be happy that we are flying, and enjoy most of our work collegues and have a beer where we land. Leave all that rubbish for the pen pushes to argue about, just don't take S$&T from them.

Good luck boys and gals, we're all on the same team.

Rant over

15th Dec 2009, 06:44
Of course they could change the aircraft type, but there isn't much else is there, BNE-MEL direct flights withy QF are usually always B737s, and the main thing is it and the ones for March I have booked are Qantas flights, NOT Jetstar as we would never use Jetstar.

15th Dec 2009, 07:25
The way things are going, it could be Jetstar & Tiger sharing T1, and the few QF flights left relegated to the tiger den (T4). :E

15th Dec 2009, 07:47
Just checked again (without actually booking) many more flights for August and September 2010, still shows as now ALL flights except one or two a day are QF mainline B737 flights, and the others are clearly shown as Jetstar flights to and from Avalon still. :confused:

IF what you are saying is true, I guess the Qantas booking site has not been updated yet. :confused:

BTW before someone gets the wrong idea (as usual here) my earlier comment about we NEVER use Jetstar is because we do NOT want to arrive or depart Avalon. :ok:

15th Dec 2009, 08:36
we do NOT want to arrive or depart Avalon

so you from frankston or portsea?:8

15th Dec 2009, 08:42
so you from frankston or portsea?

Not me no......... :eek:

Her who must be obeyed and her Family are yes, not very convenient to go in and out of Avalon. :ok:

15th Dec 2009, 10:18
The way QF operate is by stealth, initially they advise only two flights a day, starting in 6 or seven months time. Everyone will complain about it for a couple of months and then just get used to the idea.

Then once the service starts they will gradually add a couple of more flights and maybe even ad a star class as well.

This is how Jetstar has grown so quickly without any opposition.

I think the thing that will make everyone sit and and take notice is when QF announce the order for the C-Series.

The President of United Airlines has apparently been looking at them in the last week as a replacement for their 737's.

I wonder if QF will do the same and give them to Qantaslink.

The word on the street is they are pretty serious, as they need to fill the gap between the Q 400 and the 737 - 800 considering the 737 - 400 are retiring soon.



15th Dec 2009, 10:40
I think the thing that will make everyone sit and and take notice is when QF announce the order for the C-Series.

And the the C-Series is what?

15th Dec 2009, 10:42
The following may go some way towards showing why Qantas pilots are so disengaged and distrustful of anything coming from Qantas Management these days.
You should see the Engagement survey results.

Sydney, 08 December 2005: The board of Qantas Airways yesterday approved the establishment of a new long haul value based airline under the Jetstar brand. “This expansion will not in any way be at the expense of the Qantas full service domestic and international operations. Our aim for the Group is to expand in our traditional markets with Qantas and to expand in new markets with the most suitable product, be it Qantas or Jetstar. The Qantas mainline operations are and will remain our primary focus. Jetstar will have opportunities to fly to destinations already served by Qantas mainline, but from alternative Australia ports to the current Qantas services.”

Darwin, 1 March 2006 – Qantas Group Services for Darwin: “The new schedule will see… Jetstar replacing Qantas on services to Darwin from Melbourne"

Melbourne, 11 April 2006 – Qantas Group International Networks: “ Cairns remains a major hub for Qantas international service, 49 flights per week

Qantas will continue to provide: Double daily flights between Cairns and Tokyo (now gone), daiily flights between Cairns and each of the Japanese cities of Nagoya and Osaka (also gone), a total of seven services per week to Bali from Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, with Sydney and Melbourne flights to progressively transition to Jetstar (we no longer serve bali)”

Sydney, 06 September 2006 – Qantas Group Service to Townsville: “The Qantas Group today announced that Jetstar would replace Qantas mainline operations between Sydney and Townsville from 29 October 2006”

Cairns, 16 November 2006, Qantas Announces Changes to Japan Services: “Jetstar will replace Qantas Airways services from Cairns to Nagoya and Osaka from mid-2007.”

Sydney, 5 June 2008, Qantas Announces International Schedule Changes:
“ The replacement of Qantas’ 14 weekly 767 Cairns – Tokyo (Narita) services with a daily Jetstar non-stop A330 two-class service from December 2008. Mr Dixon said Jetstar would also replace Qantas on Perth – Denpasar Route, with up to four Jetstar 320 services taking over from Qantas’s 737-800 services from December 2008. Perth – Jakarta, with 3 Jetstar 320 services per week replacing the existing Qantas service”

Remember Dixon saying Jetstar would not grow beyond 5 aircraft.

What about this pearl, Jetstar will not compete head to head with Qantas Mainline.

The list goes on and the staff more distrustful.:{

With reference as to what a c-series is ,look here
Aerospace > Products > Commercial Aircraft > CSeries (http://www.bombardier.com/en/aerospace/products/commercial-aircraft/cseries?docID=0901260d800091e6)

15th Dec 2009, 10:56
The services Jetstar are commencing are replacing the ones Qantas cut back as part of NS 09 cutbacks.

The The
15th Dec 2009, 20:08
I was told recently that the BNE-MEL route was currently one of the most profitable Qantas domestic routes with very good loads and yields.

Good enough reason to transfer flying to Jetstar as we wouldn't want to see Qantas making any money.

15th Dec 2009, 20:34
The C-series is a Bombadier jet, comes out in 2013, 110 -149 seats.

15th Dec 2009, 22:24
Hi airsupport,

I don't have a link to the article but I read it this morning, maybe the initial poster can put a link up? But the news item is not saying all flights will be Jetstar BNE-MEL, it quoted they would be doing 2 flights a day from July 2010. Just like they do a few SYD-BNE a day now and BNE-CNS etc. Cheers!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


Don't have the link, as I found out via the Courier Mail yesterday. JQ will provide 2x Daily between MEL and BNE as well as 2 x Daily between AVV and BNE with a everyday fares for MEL starting at $89.

15th Dec 2009, 22:29
NO worries, as long as it is clear on the QF web site, as it is now, which flights are QF and which are Jetstar, and more importantly which are Avalon and which are Tulla. :ok:

10th Jan 2010, 07:08
I found this thread quite interesting at first, as my Wife and I often fly down to Melbourne and ONLY ever travel Qantas because we want to arrive and depart Tullamarine and NOT Avalon, so as I said was interested in any info about Jetstar possibly operating in and out of Tullamarine, as they do from the Gold Coast. :ok:

However each time I come to see any new information about THE TOPIC it has like most threads here been hijacked and turned into yet another load of whining and moaning NOT even on topic. :ugh:

Is everyone at Jetstar and Qantas like this. :(

10th Jan 2010, 10:40
Airsupport, not entirely despite some posters' perception.

As for Jq entering this run, one of the benefits for staff travellers is getting more seat access to and fro Mel and vice versa which hasn't been an easy task at times with QF over the years.

Below is info from a news source mid December:

BUDGET airline Jetstar is opening another front in the battle against Virgin Blue and Tiger Airways with a new Brisbane to Melbourne service.

Passengers will be able to fly in to both Tullamarine and Avalon for the first time from July 1 next year, for far less than the cost of a Virgin Blue or Tiger fare. Jetstar begins selling the Brisbane-Melbourne flights from today, offering a one-way launch fare of $49 and $89 one-way for a regular ticket. The best deal Virgin had advertised yesterday was $149 one-way while Tiger charged $148.

Jetstar chief Bruce Buchanan said the plan was for two Brisbane-Melbourne and two Brisbane-Avalon flights a day.

As for flight info;

Jetstar’s new double daily Melbourne-Brisbane schedule (from 1 July 2010 – 3 October 2010)

Departure and Arrival times shown

Melbourne-Brisbane Brisbane-Melbourne
JQ560 0650 – 0900 JQ561 0930 – 1200
JQ566 1610 – 1820 JQ567 1850 – 2120

10th Jan 2010, 12:33
The addition of Brisbane/Tulla is nothing unexpected. Yes, it has occurred at this point in time in response to Tiger, market demand and other factors, however the move also signals a hastening in QF's long term strategic planning, which has not changed in the past 5 years even with a changing worldly environment, and that is this - QF will revert back to a predominately International carrier, while retaining it's domestic City Flyer network only in the kanagroo tail.The rest of the domestic operation will gradually be taken up by JQ until the transition has been completed.

I am not interested in posting whether I agree or not with this strategy, just stating the facts.
However, sadly, but with reality,airline executives are in the absolute business of deriving profits for shareholders and themselves, at absolutely any cost. We all need to put to bed the fantasy of career longevity, reward for honesty and hard work or for 'going the extra mile'. Executive management will sacrifice jobs, culture and 'tail colours' to turn a profit that will benefit a select few.Nothing will prevent this, no outcry from the public or the employee's, no union, no protests and no threats from forum bloggers...

10th Jan 2010, 18:58
Airsupport, not entirely despite some posters' perception.

Yes that is how it appears, nearly every topic is turned into a whining contest, THANK YOU for your sensible reply AND information. :ok:

Should make a difference the new schedules, I booked my Wife another return flight to MEL the other day for April while Qantas had some $99 fares, the Jetstar flights (no use to us because of Avalon) were already closed for cheaper seats.

10th Jan 2010, 20:51
I have deleted 15 posts from this thread due thread drift. This topic is about a new route for an airline, NOT industrial discussions. There are any number of those running at the moment. Please feel free to contribute there.