The Appeal

[6feetunder]

From a recent DFO's newsletter;

The headline news this week was, of course, the decision in the High Court on the 49ers case against the Company for unfair dismissal and defamation. The decision went against the Company and credit is due to the 18 plaintiffs and their legal teams for a case well fought.

I would like to think that, after eight long years, this means that we have reached the end of the road in this particular dispute and that everyone involved will be allowed to achieve some form of closure.

I guess his masters didn't keep him in the loop. Notice of appeal has been filed at (of course) the 11th hour.

Do the boys in London tell you anything Nick? Or are you just there to get thrown under the bus when needed....

[ecosystem]

And here comes the bus.

[Ex Cathedra]

I would like to think that, after eight long years, this means that we have reached the end of the road in this particular dispute and that everyone involved will be allowed to achieve some form of closure.

Poor Nicky's ability to juggle with knives, flaming torches and chainsaws is really getting tested. The next newsletter should make for some fascinating reading.

"I would like to think that, after 3 long weeks, this means that we have reached the start of a new road towards a renewed dispute and that everyone involved has enjoyed their short-lived closure."

:yuk:

[rick.shaw]

Yet to hear it officially, but surely you didn't believe Rhodes when he talked about putting it all behind us, did you?

Typical crap - give the people an ounce of hope......

He knew EXACTLY what was going to happen.

Closure is firmly in the company's hands.

[Humber10]

they're looking for some more good, free publicity :}

[parabellum]

If two of the defence witnesses are being investigated for perjury would it help the CX case to go for an appeal?

[Ex Cathedra]

They're not appealing to win, they're appealing out of resentment, and to try and waste as much of the 18's time, money and energy as they can. As always.

[FlexibleResponse]

It looks like somebody with a big-swinging-dick and a dinosaur-size brain has ordered an appeal...

Bring it on!

[bonaqua]

This will obviously help the work load with the legal department within CX City! If they are farming it out, I would like to know where, so I can buy some shares as they are going to be having some very healthy invoices posted to CX very shortly. 49ers appeal!, SO bypass appeal!, FO case & labour tribunal, Cabin Crew and leave!, etc, etc. This is only there staff let alone suppliers and people who fall down!!
CX YOU BRING IT ON YOURSELF! What a bunch of F-----s.:cool:

[Glass Half Empty]

Just remember where those SLS savings are being spent when they ask the next time whether you would like to help out!

[Sqwak7700]

... and yet they got all but 150 pilots to take SLS.

Who's got the small brain now? At least they have a big swinging dick... :rolleyes:

[The Management]

We are paying for the appeal with your 13th month and SLS contributions. Some are still paying the CPU, which means less money for you. Our aim to keep you poor and will have to work longer for less pay. Most buy into our propaganda every time. Thanks for helping out.
Now go back to work and help out where you can i.e. extending duty, reduce rest, using discretion on tight FTL patterns, working on G days, answering your phone, etc, etc, etc.

Who has the small brain and short memories?

No one from The CPG Group is being investigated for perjury.

Have a Merry Christmas and to your large tax bill. We in Management will have a Jolly Old Christmas with our bonuses.

Those that have to be away from home this Christmas, remember that you will receive an extra dinner allowance, treat yourself while we will be home with our Families.

To My Bonus
The Management

[iflyplanes]

you mean my large tax bill directly related to my large housing allowance which management dont get, was that what you are referring to?:eek:

Lawyers are "JSM"

[jonathon68]

Its official.. Management are "putting this behind us" by appealing.:yuk:

[CYRILJGROOVE]

Seems to me they just defamed the entire 49 ers again, admitted they tracked attendance for 30 months yet forgot the D & G contractual procedure.

[6feetunder]

That would be breach of contract. They were defamed when they were called unprofessional.

[Five Green]

So it was originally for "no particular reason" then it was for "union activities" and now it is because of "sickness"I think this is not only outrageous continued harassment of the 49ers, but in addition is also very very troubling tact they are taking.

Can you imagine the increased pressure to work whilst sick should this argument win ?? Here we are in a country that is paranoid over H1N1 and perhaps rightly so, and one of it's major employers seeks to pressure employees to come to work sick, a work unlike many others, that WILL bring in viruses from around the world.

Not to mention that piloting an aircraft with illness or injury DOES reduce your performance level in the cockpit, thereby reducing the safety of the flight the sick pilot operates.

I for one am already tired of Pilots bringing their sickness to work and infecting those they work with.

CX you had better have a think about the message this appeal strategy will send to the Hong Kong government, and the traveling public.

Peace out

[Steve the Pirate]

FG

Not to mention that piloting an aircraft with illness or injury DOES reduce your performance level in the cockpit, thereby reducing the safety of the flight the sick pilot operates.You forgot to mention it's illegal too - minor point I know.

STP

[The Wraith]

It never ceases to amaze me the depths to which NR and TT etc will sink. Were they not humiliated or humbled the first time in court? When is it that a person actually relinquishes all sense of decency and humanity in pursuit of power and greed? I'm not a religious man but I hope one day they are judged for what they have done. How do their families live with such despicable people?
I hope the judge firmly puts both them and this case down where it belongs.... Of course, in Hong Kong where money overrides both decency and justice I guess anything could happen.
I dislike this place a little more every day.:ugh:

[Sqwak7700]

When is it that a person actually relinquishes all sense of decency and humanity in pursuit of power and greed?...

...when that person realizes that there is no counter-force ready and willing to stop them. Human greed is something you can always count on, and if left unchecked, there are no limits to how far it can go.

There is no power willing to check them. Clearly, the pilot group is not up for it, so we are left with the courts to fight our battles for us. Kind of a bad position to be if the courts are pro-management. :rolleyes:

[goathead]

Seriously why is everyone sooooo surprised ....? you gotta remember who your working for , have you not watched "The Noble House ":p

[quadspeed]

For once - just this once - could they not have done the right thing? Could they not have shown that there are actually living, breathing human beings behind the corporation, who through conceptions such as decency, empathy, natural justice and self-conscience remind us that corporate values still reflect upon those who create them?

"Do to others what you would like to be done to you."

Taking orders from within the walls of corporate greed and pure pursuit of profit doesn't excuse the individual from his or her human existence and underlying accountability for actions taken in the name of shareholders.

[6feetunder]

"Do to others what you would like to be done to you."

If CX management lives by that creed then it would seem they like taking it up the arse.

[1200firm]

One has to realise that it is all about control. Control at any cost. Always has been & likely always will be.

[Peter613]

The Company had been tracking attendance records, in great detail, for
30 months prior to July 2001 and the 49ers were selected, primarily, on
the basis of their attendance records i.e. their level of participation
in the so-called “Sick Out” campaign.The Judge found Cathay was busting the union.
Isn't this Newsletter a repeat of the defamation they have just been in court for and found guilty of???:ugh:
But anyway weren't the 49ers fired "for no particular reason"?
More lies.

[FlexibleResponse]

As mentioned in a previous Update
I was quite keen to bring this whole matter to a close but there is too
strong a feeling amongst the legal team that the judge has got it wrong
in terms of his interpretation of the Employment Ordinance.

You can be damn sure that NR doesn't want to face a Judge again and be forced to give sworn testimony!

The CX legal team were dealt a devastating blow with this loss. But, if they get even more money from CX by talking CX into an appeal, then the sting of the next defeat will be sooth by cash and made more bearable.

They sure know how to play up to those management big swinging dicks with testicles ten times the size of their brains.

Bring it on! The managers responsible for the mass sackings have not been punished or even publicly humiliated enough for their lies and for their reprehensible actions.

[crwjerk]

The Company had been tracking attendance records, in great detail, for
30 months prior to July 2001 and the 49ers were selected, primarily, on
the basis of their attendance records i.e. their level of participation
in the so-called “Sick Out” campaign.

So why didn't they bring this up in the Court Case???

[canuckster]

They didn't bring it up in court because it's not the truth and therefore they were unable to produce any evidence or credible witnesses to support it.

Day 7 Transcript (http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/proceedings/cathay%20day07%2014oct09.pdf)

Star Chamber Hit List (http://confederatepilots.tripod.com/StarChamberHitList.pdf)

The Hit List shows that the wrongfully terminated pilots were those the Star Chamber (http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/generaldocs/StarChamber.htm) managers or crew controllers didn't like. If attendance/sickness was really an issue they would have sacked the top 49 on the list but they didn't because it was union bust. They also swore on oath that no documents were used or produced in the Star Chamber meetings; that was until the Hitlist appeared and they changed their story. Not surprisingly there were documents used and produced and they simply lied. How else could they remember the 49 names of the pilots they then went away to sack?:=

[ron burgandy]

Guys, they're not appealing because it's of benefit to them. They're doing it because the ruling has
"has serious implications for all employers in Hong Kong."
Once again, Cathay is coming to the rescue of Hong Kong, which is again under threat from militant pilots:ugh:

[Glass Half Empty]

"has serious implications for all employers in Hong Kong."

so noble, I am sure they are writing to all HK emloyers asking them for a contribution towards the lawyers fees.

[Peter613]

49er Court Case

On Wednesday 9th December the CX legal team filed an appeal against the High Court judgment in the 49er Case. As mentioned in a previous Update I was quite keen to bring this whole matter to a close but there is too strong a feeling amongst the legal team that the judge has got it wrong in terms of his interpretation of the Employment Ordinance. The EO does provide a level of protection for employees
engaging in legitimate trade union activity outside of the workplace but this was not the basis for selecting any of the 49ers for termination of employment in 2001.

The Company had been tracking attendance records, in great detail, for 30 months prior to July 2001 and the 49ers were selected, primarily, on the basis of their attendance records i.e. their level of participation in the so-called “Sick Out” campaign.

The CX legal team believes that the judge's conclusion, that employees engaging in industrial action such as “Sick Outs” or “Go Slows” is a protected union activity under the EO, is wrong in law and has serious implications for all employers in Hong Kong.

Furthermore, if the Court of Appeal accepts this submission then our legal team believes that the Company was justified in saying that the plaintiffs were not working in the airline’s best interest. This would also bring into question the award of record libel damages to the dismissed pilots.

Hopefully the appeal will be heard without too much delay although this will depend on how busy the courts are.

Nick Rhodes
DFOI wonder what he's going to write after Cathay lose their appeal?
What a tosser.
Presumably it will be about how the appeal judges got it wrong as well?

[broadband circuit]

the 49ers were selected, primarily, on the basis of their attendance records i.e. their level of participation in the so-called “Sick Out” campaign.

If it turns out that if even just one of the 49ers did not have a high sickness rate, then it would seem he's now committed a further act of defamation.

[EXEZY]

As they say "absolute power corrupts absolutely". I'm getting sick and tired of this place/company. When will this corruption ever stop?

[Hoofharted]

When will the whingeing and whining stop and you lot start to act as a team rather than a bunch of disjointed backstabbing rabble? :ugh:

All piss and wind.

[badairsucker]

wow hoofharted,

How long did it take you to come up with that well thought out, mature and intellectual masterpiece of a reply?????:ugh:


I see by your previous posts you like a good whinge and whine.

[ALPHA FLOOR]

Hoof, you nearly got me to take the bait!

[Hoofharted]

I rest my case :ok:

[crewsunite]

Cathay fails to block payout to '49ers'
Yvonne Tsui
Dec 16, 2009

Cathay Pacific (SEHK: 0293) has failed to stop a judgment ordering it to pay more than HK$61 million to eighteen of the "49ers" - the pilots sacked en masse during an industrial dispute in 2001 - despite the airline having an appeal under way.

The 18 won the compensation and damages last month for unfair dismissal and defamation. The other 49ers had already accepted settlement offers from the airline.

Yesterday Mr Justice Anselmo Reyes, of the Court of First Instance, declined a request from the airline for a stay of execution of the judgment he gave on November 11.

Launching the application on behalf of the airline, barrister Robin McLeish indicated to the court that the airline had filed an appeal against Reyes' judgment. Refusing the request, Reyes said: "I don't see that there is very strong ground for success. There is absolutely no reason for me to grant a stay."

He also made an order to release money put into court before trial as security by the airline and by pilots residing outside Hong Kong. A total of HK$6.47 million had been deposited by the airline, and seven pilots had together put in about HK$2 million.

In his judgment, Reyes held that the airline had contravened the Employment Ordinance by dismissing the 18 pilots without a valid reason.

The pilots were sacked between July 9 and 11, 2001 during a dispute over pay and rosters. Their contracts were terminated with three months' pay. They had allegedly taken part in union actions including "work-to-rule" schemes that had slowed down the daily operation of the airline.

Reyes held that the dismissal of the pilots was based on their support for the union and their alleged involvement in the union's activities, although he found that there was no evidence showing the pilots had actually participated.

He also found that the airline failed to invoke prescribed disciplinary procedures in the pilots' contracts, though it claimed that the underlying reason for the dismissals was "gross misconduct".

After his judgment, the pilots also succeeded in claiming for defamation, for remarks made after the sacking by two Cathay executives - Philip Chen Nan-lok, in 2001 the director and chief operating officer, and Tony Tyler, now the chief executive.

Chan had publicly accused the pilots of having shown a lack of "total professionalism", and disrupting the airline's operation and the reputation of Hong Kong.

Tyler had accused them of holding Hong Kong to ransom and failing to act in the company's interests.

Reyes had ordered the airline to compensate the pilots, except Gregory England, who died in January 2001, HK$3.3 million each for the defamation.

He also awarded HK$150,000 to each pilot - except one, who had won his claim in a London employment tribunal - for the unfair dismissal.

[Toe Knee Tiler]

barrister Robin McLeish indicated to the court that the airline had filed an appeal against Reyes' judgment. Refusing the request, Reyes said: "I don't see that there is very strong ground for success.

Don't ya just Love it.
Does this court know who they are dealing with?

[OldChinaHand]

Let them at the appeal, there is a good chance that management will land themselves in deep legal water personally during same. I wonder did the legal team advise the appeal, or were they pushed by certain individuals to find an undotted i or uncrossed t in the judgement to launch same under.

The Judge obviously does not see even a minor chance of success when he ordered the payouts to go ahead, or perhaps he viewed the application as a further attempt to increase the suffering of the 49ers.

Whats the money..........on an appeal of the result of failing to obtain a stay of execution on the payouts?

[FlexibleResponse]

Cathay fails to block payout to '49ers'
Yvonne Tsui
Dec 16, 2009

Cathay Pacific (SEHK: 0293) has failed to stop a judgment ordering it to pay more than HK$61 million to eighteen of the "49ers" - the pilots sacked en masse during an industrial dispute in 2001 - despite the airline having an appeal under way......

......Yesterday Mr Justice Anselmo Reyes, of the Court of First Instance, declined a request from the airline for a stay of execution of the judgment he gave on November 11.

Launching the application on behalf of the airline, barrister Robin McLeish indicated to the court that the airline had filed an appeal against Reyes' judgment. Refusing the request, Reyes said: "I don't see that there is very strong ground for success. There is absolutely no reason for me to grant a stay."

Another huge slap in the face for the CX big swinging dicks. When will these guys learn? Perhaps they will now have their final comeuppance with the Swire manouevers and sideways "promotions" (if they don't go to jail first)?

Much respect for Mr Justice Anselmo Reyes...he is one tough cookie and is nobody's fool.

[moosp]

I have no knowledge of the legal department and (more importantly) their advisers in Cathay Pacific in this case, but I have some general knowledge of legal departments of large corporations. (Legal disclaimer over).

The legal department and their advisers know that they have an iron rice bowl. That is, they cannot be sacked. Their clients, the company, consist mostly of managers who have slight knowledge of legal procedures. These clients, driven still by a perceived sword of Damoclese from London, cannot take the honourable way out. It would show a weakness and a lack of cojones to the Swire brothers.

Let us remember that a directors meeting or meetings with Sir John present was or were held before the 49's sacking. I do not know whether the minutes of this or these board meetings have been subpoened in this case but a good legal team in the case should have attempted their access. I suspect, with no prior knowledge, that they might prove contempt of a witness.

We know by watching our leaders in other industries being screwed by the lawyers of anyone from the government to their wives, that attaining the level of a director in a company does not necessarily give a senior manager more jurisprudence that a junior lawyer in their legal department. Directors are often very badly advised.

I believe that it is apparent that the legal advisers to CX (the CX legal department are no more than clerks in this case) need to justify their enormous fees. They screwed up once, so they need to blame the judge's decision as a reason to appeal. And they are on a win - win too, as when they fail at the appeal they will still get paid.

As T N Tiler pointed out above, when a judge indicates that the appeal is unlikely to be successful, he is speaking from a level of experience way beyond the barrister.

It has been said in the hallowed halls of the legal profession in Hong Kong that the higher the appeal the closer the Governor. (Sorry, Chief Executive...). This may or may not imply that Beijing may take a minor interest in this. If they do, I defy anyone to make a prediction, as one faction of the Beijing executive will root for labour, the other for their Swire friends.

The many other employers in Hong Kong watch with trepidation. If Swire lose, labour wins. With the post colonial attitudes held by the directors of so many Hong Kong and southern China companies, a legal decision in favour of labour would be their world's end.

You can see why the lunch tables of the Hong Kong Club are more full and tremulous than usual. This is Beyond Swire.

[ron burgandy]

I hope the usual risk associated with appeals is applicable here. I.e should CX lose, the amount awarded may/should go up :D

[&&&]

No, the ammount of the award will not go up. CX are appealing points of law and 3 judges will consider the points and make judgement on those areas which will uphold or change the ruling.

Of course Reyes doesnt think that they have much of a chance of winning an appeal, he passed the original judgement and obviously thinks he is right. Don't get too excited, CX could easily win this in the end.

[FlexibleResponse]

moosp,

Very perceptive and interesting comments, thank you.

[ALPHA FLOOR]

The silence from the spin director is deafening - shear arrogance!

AFL

[Peter613]

'The Company had been tracking attendance records, in great detail, for 30 months prior to July 2001 and the 49ers were selected, primarily, on the basis of their attendance records i.e. their level of participation in the so-called “Sick Out” campaign.'

He's probably busy having his arse reamed out for writing stupid things in newsletters.

[broadband circuit]

He's probably busy having his arse reamed out for writing stupid things in newsletters.

As pointed out by a captain that I know, if any of the sacked 49ers had little or no sickness in the previous 30 months, then has he committed another act of defamation? Hence instead of "stupid", Peter613 maybe should have said "defamatory"

Further, I believe the agreement for those guys who gave away their "right to sue" for the re-employment interview only encompassed legal action for unfair dismissal, not defamation, especially since this potential defamatory statement was made subsequent to the signing of that agreement.

[zygot44]

Rhodes didn't have "attendance records in great detail" or any proof of any 49er being in a sick out. If he had records or proof wouldn't he have produced them as evidence in court?

Whilst it shocks me to think of the DFO as less than truthful, let's recap. Tyler and Chen were found guilty of defaming the 49ers in a court ruling six weeks ago. If Broadband Circuit is right, Rhodes has now defamed not just the 18 who took Cathay to court and won, but the other 30 odd 49ers that the Company settled with out of court.:ugh:

Rhodes might have dropped himself in the :mad:.with this one.:\

[canuckster]

"The Company had been tracking attendance records, in great detail, for
30 months prior to July 2001 and the 49ers were selected, primarily, on
the basis of their attendance records i.e. their level of participation
in the so-called “Sick Out” campaign."

Check it out - these words have been removed from the 11th December DFO Update. Perhaps Cathay management agree - those statements are defamatory. Why else were they removed?:confused:

[geh065]

Any update on this case? What is happening at the moment?

[koi]

What is Richard Halls role in all this.
Koi

[WeakForce]

Richard Hall? The 49ers Story - the Star Chamber (http://www.cathaypilotsunion.org/generaldocs/StarChamber.htm).

Is it true Rhodes has apologised to the 49ers?

[RedBaron246]

Looks like a new 49ers case over at Air Hong Kong. Some First Officer was suspended for calling in sick. Now they want to sack him for trying to appeal. Star Chamber at it again.

[airplaneridesrfun]

So. What happens if NR and SK are found guilty of purgery? How will this affect other cases currently in the system, such as the S/O labour tribunal case, the past F/A cases, etc.... I imagine the court will censure these individuals past sworn testimony, delete any information they have given in trials, and re-judge these cases.

Does anybody know Hong Kong law in this respect?

[Neptunus Rex]

So. What happens if NR and SK are found to have purgered themselves in court?Oh dear. I am not sure what the appropriate punishment would be for having 'purgered themselves in court.' Perhaps banishment to the colonics.

Of course, perjury would be a gravely serious issue, with the clear possibility of a custodial sentence. NR and SK would not enjoy the company of Ah Triad and his mates!

However, that was when they gave evidence as witnesses in a prior matter. If this case goes to trial, they will be the accused. They will then have proper cause to purger themselves in court!

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/****hittingfan.gif

[Toe Knee Tiler]

How would a Total Caring Company get themselves into a pickle like this?

[water check]

I thought the decision is due today...?

[canuckster]

What is Richard Halls role in all this.This helps explain.

Cathay Absence Management Program (http://confederatepilots.tripod.com/CXAbsenceManagementProgram.pdf)

[moosp]

Great post Canuckster, puts it all back into perspective doesn't it?

[VR-HFX]

In many many ways Peter Sutch was the best and the worst.

When he really really needed all of us he gave away the world. This was definitely the start of an era when many thought they didn't need fragrance to clear the toilet smell.

At the time, the head of the AOA used his 'fish heads and rice' analogy when confronted with what he thought was an insulting payrise offer. And yes he was one of the recent claimants.

When the company wrote a cheque for HKD35m as a provident fund payout to someone who was earning a total package of USD 600k (including housing, C&T etc) there was a realisaton that things were a little bit out of control,especially when SQ was running a tech crew budget per capita of half ours. A time when 12 of the top 12 earners in CX were pilots.

No excuse for the behaviour but a little perspective is in order.

In some ways we ( the profession that is) bear some responsibility. Don't always look up for blame, sometimes look sideways.

This does not mean much to most of the current guys and gals but a little history can go a long way in the healing process.

[mephisto88]

A time when 12 of the top 12 earners in CX were pilots.
and rightly bloody so!

When one of our office basher leaders has a bad day and misplaces a paperclip, he can call a conference, bring in consultants, do some creative accounting, take it out of the profit share or just sneeze and go home sick while he works out how to explain said missing paperclip.
Their job is really not that hard. Many of us could do theirs, but how many of them could do ours? (Rhetorical question btw!)

When we have a bad day in the office, which thankfully does not happen often, after we've pulled the sheepskin back out of the orifice into which it has just been sucked, we get on with doing what we do well - getting people back on the ground safely.

We need to remember that as much as paper pushers think we get over paid for just sitting on our @rse and pushing a few buttons, never forget we get paid for what we can do when the sh1t hits the fan.

The passengers in cases like that will never think we are overpaid.

Did the $35m by any chance go to a stunted little kiwi who had his leaving party in a phone box?

[claire40]

fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt

[Neptunus Rex]

In the 1980's CX was one big happy family. The rot set in when Peter Sutch and Mike Hardy ("No B Scales while I'm DFO!") were replaced by lesser mortals who had only their own selfish interests at heart.
Flight International's annual Airline Review says it all. Twenty years ago, the Boards of Directors of all the major, and minor, airlines would list 'Captain Bloggs' and 'Captain Snooks' on the lists. Now you are hard pressed to find one. All the directors are bean-counters, lawyers, time-servers and - shock horror - even a zoologist!
Why am I not surprised?

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/sadpacer.gif

[VR-HFX]

Mephisto

Not the stunted one but he did get a big wad. There were half a dozen that scored over HKD30m, when it was real money. The biggest went to the blond (if receding) Aussie who started off as an F/E on the Electra.

Regrettably the 'paid for what we can do' argument went the way of the NDB letdown. The actuaries have taken over the asylum and the Black Swan has not appeared. Doesn't mean it won't but as long as the likes of Air Asia have yet to leave a smoking hole in the ground and degraded conditions haven't shown up in increased deaths per pax/km then the argument doesn't get traction any more.

I agree with your sentiments but sadly we are now in the very unsentimental world of mass transport.:(

[AnAmusedReader]

Who was the Taipan when the B scale, COSAP and all that stuff was brought in? Mr Sutch - the smiling assassin. While he walked around chatting to all, friendly to his pilots, buying his round in the Cathay Club, he set Red Oddington loose to start it off. Nobody should be in any doubt who was behind the attack on us.

[VR-HFX]

Hopefully CX738 today will have some positive results....job well done.:ok:

[geh065]

You mean CX780?

[VR-HFX]

Correct. CX 780 ex-Surabaya.

[LongTimeInCX]

By the sound of it, with only one engine remaining and that was then stuck at around 70%, may or may not also have been shut down on finals, it sounds like the boys did an extremely good job.

Wheels and tyres are replaceable, lives are not.

Well done guys.:D

[6feetunder]

I believe there is already a thread for the CX780 incident. This thread is called The Appeal.

[LongTimeInCX]

Correct sentiments - wrong thread! Us old people get easily confused

So what's the latest news on the appeal then?

[water check]

I believe that there will be a statement this coming week....

[simplex]

So what's the latest news on the appeal then?
25th - 27th July

[Flaps10]

I'm not holding my breath...

[canuckster]

Do us a favour and keep holding your breath Murray. Your betrayal will never be forgotten. The 49ers.

[pasa001]

It certainly will not be forgotten, truly a little man with NOOOOOO!! morals.

[simplex]

Gardner and Findlay etc will forever be remembered for engineering the ultimate betrayal in AOA history.

[Checkmate]

The appeal must be any day now?

I think thanks is due to all those who have supported the 49ers through almost 10yr of pain and anguish, and to the 49er's who stayed the course and lead the fight alone.

To the rest of you who didn't, including the AOA. Shame on you!

I read some of the bluff and bluster here, but how many of you have or would stand up to CX like all the 49er's and 140 or so included in the star chamber list who missed the cut.

Good luck at the appeal guy's.

[geh065]

27th to 29th July wasn't it?

[Pathos]

I think thanks is due to all those who have supported the 49ers through almost 10yr of pain and anguish, and to the 49er's who stayed the course and lead the fight alone.

To the rest of you who didn't, including the AOA. Shame on you!

Yes it is shameful.

All the best for the 27th in the Court of Appeal chaps!

[&&&]

Nothing shameful about it. There is a tremendous backlog of cases, it always takes ages for rulings. Be patient.

[Network]

&&&

I think you have missed the point re: "shameful".

[zygot44]

Yes unfortunately there are plenty of jellybacks who call themselves Cathay pilots and chose to "miss the point" about the 49ers.

Good luck in court this week gents.:ok:

[Captain Dart]

Good luck gents! Hopefully the Hong Kong judiciary will be reluctant to rule against the findings of one of their own.

[6feetunder]

For those with some time on their hands the proceedings have commenced. From what I've heard about the first day it can be very entertaining.

[pasa001]

Good luck BOY's!! I feel that justice will be served and NR and his cronies will have to eat humble pie. "49ers" we will never forget what was done to you and your families!!! NEVER

[FlexibleResponse]

Good luck 49ers!

We eagerly look forward to the transcripts.

[coonabarabran]

When is the ruling expected?

[ghw78]

Did anybody attend the days in court and if so how did it go.

Presume that it was the standard legal appeals system where the arguments were about points of law and the handling of the case and not too much discussion on the adduced evidence and/or introduction of new or modified evidence.

I can guess that it would be more of the standard airline management "speak", albeit through the "legal briefs", more $$$$$$ spent.

You guys are not alone in suffering from the machinations of those flying the "Mahogony Bombers".

Did the Honorable Justice(s) give any indication of when they may have a finding.

Remember the 49's, something similar may be targeted at you and your colleagues one day.

[goathead]

the establishment always win in this town......expect a reversal or a surprise decision.

[simplex]

Clearly good chap you've neither the balls nor the brains.
But in CX you're not alone in that department...certainly surrounded by like-minded individuals.
The good news is that senior management have decided that this year a lack of testicular fortitude is to be rewarded. A pay-rise is on the way - say 2% for 92 hours and 3 pilot ULH. And you get the opportunity and indeed privilege of flying with someone who's held your career back and looks like they need to retire. :ouch:

[6feetunder]

On Wednesday the 26th of October the Court of Final Appeal heard application by the 49ers for leave to appeal to that court. The Hon. Mr. Justices Bokhary, Chan & Ribeiro, who are all Permanent Judges of the Court of Final Appeal heard arguments from both sides and a little while later issued their decision to grant leave to appeal to the 49ers.

It is estimated that the hearing will take place in the first half of next year.

Good luck Gents. This is indeed the last lap.

[Saturn]

The new CEO could put an end to this and put it behind CX and the 49ers. Why does CX keep themselves in the papers with poor labor issues??? I thought the new CEO said he did not think it would get worse. Well, it is!

Mr. Slosar, please put an end to all this nonsense and lets get on with having the best airline in the world or watch people start leaving as they no longer have faith in the management and the future of CX.

:=

[Walk-Around Bitch]

The new CEO doesn't have the decency or moral and ethical fortitude to do that. He is a CX manager. Has to be done in court, and only then will a contract mean anything to these people.

[cxorcist]

...because admitting they (CX) were wrong would be worse than losing the court case. In a land where saving face is everything, it is much better to be told you were wrong and disagree than to admit to the wrongdoing one's self. Pride and power are stronger incentives than money on matters like these. It is silly to all us gweillos, whom daily accept and admit our failures, to watch an organization behave in such a nonsensical way; but to the Hong Kong Chinese whom have natural bias against us anyways, CX is playing to their prejudice in the court of public opinion. CX executives know they were wrong but will continue to play this ridiculous chess match right to the bitter end. They are unscrupulous and no monetary victory can adequately compensate the 49ers for what they endured. Let's just hope God has firm justice in store for those who perpetrated this evil deed...

[Iron Skillet]

Oh no! We're not waiting on a god again, are we?

[cxorcist]

No, He is waiting on you...

[cadence]

When the first application was turned down by the Court of Appeal last year, it was all over the papers, (sacked Cathay pilots lose etc. etc.) There's not a mention of the successful application last week overturning the CoA's decision in any of the press here, that I can find anyway. I wonder why that is....

[Director Fury]

I'm sure Mr. Perry will have something on it in this Sunday's Morning Post, he seems to be the only one that is concerned with "covering" CX stories for non-locals that isn't directly a copy of the corporate communications drivel the company puts out, especially those weekly "updates" - seriously who writes that hogwash!

[SMOC]

Not the 49ers but at least they haven't lost yet.



The Court of Appeal has rejected Cathay Pacific's bid to take a dispute with its flight attendants to Hong Kong's top court. The airline is challenging an earlier ruling that holiday pay should include various allowances and commissions for selling duty-free goods.
A lawyer for Cathay argued that the case should be heard in the Court of Final Appeal because it was of public interest. But the judges dismissed the application.

The only legal move remaining to Cathay is to apply directly to the highest court for leave to appeal.