Army board action - AAC Flying pay disparity

[ralphmalph]

Does anyone know what the current situation is with the flying pay re-dress's running though the system?
Many of us are holding off before submitting ours, we were told to wait out and see what happened to the front runners in the process.

Chatting at work today it was felt that there is nothing to lose by submitting en masse and seeing what that raises!

Cheers

Ralph

[Bofaboy]

Ralph,

Just to confirm which pay debacle you are referring to...?

I take it this is the shifting of the goalposts from when we move up increments, based on aircraft commander dates rather than wings?

Last I heard was that some guys from 9 Regt got some backpay over this issue but guys from 5 Regt submitted the same "claim" but this has stalled. I would be interested in any movement on this issue as well.....

Any news?

[ralphmalph]

Bofaboy,
Yep thats the one, its runs into thousands of pounds over a persons career. There were several possible outcomes..

As ever this just takes forever to resolve. It only affects about 80 aircrew, however those 80 are the people that the AAC will be trying to keep over the next two years due to their experience. It would be nice if someone could see that!

Ralph

[vecvechookattack]

How does the AAC pay their increment dates? I'm not sure but the RN does it on years served irrespective of qualifications. Something like 5 years and then 10 years to go to the higher rate. How do the Air Force do it?

[getsometimein]

The RAF has different systems for Officers and NCA.

For NCA its flying pay incriments at 9 years (minimum of 3 years aircrew) and 18 years (minimum 9 years aircrew). For officers I believe its less service required and much greater increments.

[XXV]

Surely someone out there has had their flying pay squared away. What we need to know is whether after they got rid of pilot's pay they changed the rule so you go up to 2nd tour 4 years after you first got flying pay or is it still 4 years after your commanders check. Will make the difference between it being 8 months or 2 years away for me. Can anyone answer that for me/us?

XXV

[parabellum]

Somewhat irrelevant to this topic but when I got flying pay I was paid the same for flying helicopters as they paid people to jump out of them!(three guineas a week!).

[ralphmalph]

XXV,
When all pilots changed and got paid £12 a day at the end of CTT (1 April 2007) the rules did not change for those who were already Ac Commanders. Therefore the interpretation of JPA stands.... 4 years on the preceeding rate. Therefore 4 years from your Ac Comd check ride.
However the wording is not clear... I have been on initial rate since 2003, just paid as a pilot then as an aircraft commander.
As ever the devil is in the detail..and if anyone actually was really bothered.

I spoke to one of the AFPRB review team who dealt with flying pay and he was adamant that there was no disparity between services.

To be honest, I am not holding out much hope....but there are other ways of getting paid the correct amount! ;-)

[XXV]

Does it involve flying chinooks?

[RotatingPart]

Gents,

Don't wait for the front runners cases to be solved - they won't be anytime soon. The reason is quite simply that the AAC and those that hold the purse strings know that whilst we all talk a good "signing off" and "My lawyer will have something to say", it doesn't actually happen.:ugh:

This topic is causing more than a little angst in a certain Lynx squadron at Middle Wallop (and probably the rest of 7 Regt AAC). Each case at the moment is being dealt with on an individual basis. Bottom line is they're only interested in whether you can put up a case using JSP 754. The fact that someone who joined up, got wings, passed their A/C Comd check around the same time as you etc, but is on a higher rate will not hold water with the system. Try using the JPAC or Isupport system on JPA.

The system is well aware of the current state of the job market and views flying pay as a retention incentive. They aren't going to sort this out to anyones satisfaction until the job market picks up and people ACTUALLY start leaving.

Regardless of what rate of pay you're on now, whether you proffed or dipped out in how you progressed - it was their mistake. You are where you are. If you've been on that rate for 4 years you should expect to move onto the next rate as it states in JSP 754. So why are people "marking time"? It doesn't say that anywhere in the Joint Service Publication:=.

I know this is having a major effect on individuals personal and professional lives. Dare I say it, but IMHO this whole unwelcome business has become a Human Factors / CRM / Flight Safety issue at a time when we've all got far too much else going on at work. Do yourself a favour and submit your case. Don't be fobbed off, by "the old rules said this..." and "you're lucky we're not claiming any money back".

Sorry, climbing off my soap box now. :sad:

[XXV]

How can one person put up a case using JSP754 and another person can't? Isn't it the same for everyone.

Any tips would be nice.

[RotatingPart]

It is the same for everyone, what I'm saying is don't be surprised when you're asked to submit your individual circumstances for consideration rather than relying on the fact that one of your peers got a result.

I'm in the same boat as everyone else but like I said, there seems to be no hurry to draw a line under this from the AAC despite the fact that it is causing individuals alot of stress and grief. If I had any top tips, it'd be all sorted:*. Ask the guys in 671 how they're doing. Maj Leighton at HQ AAC is apparently going to do the rounds to see if there is the same issue in the Regt's. Don't be shy in letting him know. Meantime, anyone for a piece of arse shaped cake? :rolleyes:

[Bofaboy]

The point XXV makes is very valid. It shouldn't be up to individuals to fight the case, the Corps should be doing it collectively for everybody that was affected.

Also the point about people "marking time" is worth further investigation. Officers attending ACSC used to mark time on whatever rate they were on, yet a collective case was put forward reversing this, thus personnel would progress at the normal increments. However Officers attending ICSC, a mandatory career course, are still marking time; ludicrous.

From a parochial point of view I was a volunteer for an operational tour last year and I marked time on Middle rate for another 6 months as the job was an E2 post. I would have been finacially better off not volunteering and moving upto Top Rate 6 months earlier.

This pay fiasco does not engender any loyalty to the Army Air Corps.

[XXV]

What, the rule didn't favour the senior officers so they had it changed?

As long as they're ok then.

And they wonder why everyone tries to join the crabs.