Eagle Jet - SE Asia

[Alltheway]

Dear All,

I'm contemplating hour building with Eagle Jet on their SE Asian program.

Does anyone know the Airline he's dealing with so I can check this against the EU Black list please.

Comments re: Morals of PTF Scheme will be ignored.

[punk666]

Italia,
its Air Asia so i have been told. They're not on the EU blacklist..in fact they wont be even flying into europe on a B737 lol.

[Alltheway]

Cheer's Mukka.

[punk666]

Mukka...??

[tony2F]

Air Asia, surely not, what about the current ban on foreigners, as far as I'm aware the DCA are not issuing visas for FO's, whether they work for free or not...

[Alltheway]

There's definitly a SE Asian hour building program so not sure how they get around the alleged foreigners ban. Where's your info from?

[punk666]

Agreed, there is 100% an asia program, RAM program and a new possible European partner airline program. On the other hand there is a ban apparently for example RAM..they have a ban on foreign pilots but there is an exemption Eaglejet on this hence there still is a line program.

[Kirks gusset]

Lion Air Jakarta?

[tony2F]

Definate Ban in Malaysia, (unless lifted very very recently) for Air Asia,my info comes form the letter I got from the DCA saying, VISA DENIED!!! lol ,if it wasnt serious it'd be funny.. Dont know where this program would be but I'd put money on it NOT being Air Asia. Hope I'm wrong.

[punk666]

It might not be Air Asia in fact but from what i read it was, im trying to find out where i heard it. Royal Air Moroc had constant strikes to stop expact pilots but i know this was more regarding captains than FO's because the schools cannot produce enough FO's to fulfill the airlines requirments.

I got the clearance from the DGAC in morocco to start but haven't received a start date from the airline yet. I am hoping this new partner airline will be better.

[lunav]

hello everybody,
do you know in which airlines EagleJet runs his 737NG Time building Program in Europe or Asia? I would like a list. Thank you!

[punk666]

Right now its Royal Air Maroc (RAM) and the email he sent today he said he will not mention the new european airline till a contract has been signed. For the Asia one if you read above its rumoured to be Air Asia which i read or got told but dont quote me on it that its them.

[zakka]

Comments re: Morals of PTF Scheme will be ignored.

Here is something for you to ignore: Please do yourself and the aviation business a favour by not paying to work.

[ROO-C26B]

B737NG Asia partner program is Lion Air. Attended one of the meetings in Sydney Australia US29,000 for 500hrs FO and Captain. "Possible" further 2 yrs employment after completion of program based on performance. :ok:

[Abagnale]

B737NG Asia partner program is Lion Air. Attended one of the meetings in Sydney Australia US29,000 for 500hrs FO and Captain. "Possible" further 2 yrs employment after completion of program based on performance. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif Today 04:16
Now why would they employ you for 2 years if there's a whole bunch of a**holes like you ready to pay for doining that job? Pay to fly time on your cv is definitely going straight into the bin in my company and many others,so please don't destroy your life and stop turning this profession into a monkey occupation...I hope you never make it...Cheers :hmm:

[lpokijuhyt]

I think Qantas, Cathay Pacific, JAL, Emirates and Ethiad all work with the Eagle Jet program. If you do the program you will be flying for one of these airlines! I highly recommend that you pay to work. This is the new norm in the industry. I love flying and I would do it for free. Now get out there and spread your wings. Who cares if you get paid or not, if the job is fun and you enjoy doing it! Good luck:ok:

[punk666]

Abagnale,

Question!! How would you even know if they "paid to fly"?

If you worked for Lion Air for 2 years as an FO where does that say "pay to fly"? You dont have to say that you paid to fly on your CV only an idiot would put that in bold writing.

The industry is changing its not like how it was 20 years ago where the airline trained you from PPL or paid for your type rating...have you forgotten there is a world wide recession! Airlines are only just staying a float and your still expecting great pay and training paid for.....Yeah right,
obviously there has to be a limit on what is fair pay and sh*t pay.

How can you guys who already got jobs, say to new pilots that you want them to sit it out for a few years/ "wait your turn" till things get better. If you are lucky enough to have the money you should take control of the situation.

Aviation has always been a never ending pit of money!! I personally think it comes down to jealousy, some people have the money to do it whilst others dont so they complain, and if you have the money you would do the same.

Its not the pilots who wreck the industry its the market and the airlines themselves...us pilots are only the monkeys doing what the organ grinder says. If the requirements where 500 TT and then the airline trains you up then there wouldnt be a need for TRTO or line flying schemes, But if the airline wants 2000 TT and 500 hours on type how they hell are you going to get that!!???.

New pilots are in a catch 22 situation..."Need experience to get the job, Cant get experience because you need a job to gain it"...so these schools are breaking the cycle or you could say found a gap in the market.
Paying to get yourself in the right hand seat and fly AND get paid for it is wrong and that is the true definition of pay to fly. Paying to fly in the RHS for 500 hours WITHOUT getting paid then after your back on your own two feet trying to get a job is not what I call paying for a job at all. All you have done is paid an FO to take some time off and have a nice holiday for a year.

So my advice is, instead of slatting the scheme off how about you actually look into what the program is about then make your judgement, because everyone who complains about it dont really know what the program is about or how its run, all they see is PAY TO FLY!!

P.s Quote "stop turning this profession into a monkey occupation." Well with Technology getting better and pilots using autopilots instead of flying it themselves, pilots are there for Monitoring purposes and for "Human comfort" Technology is getting better and better making flying alot easier why is the airline going to pay a guy £120K a year to turn a few knobs on an MCP and auto land it at the end?

A phrase that an engineer told me comes to mind, "you can train a monkey to ride a bike, but you cant get him to fix one"

[Dane-Ger]

Question!! How would you even know if they "paid to fly"?Because any interview panel would ask you about your 500 hours on a 737. (knowing full well that if it is, for example, lion air, then you have most probably paid for them)

[punk666]

So your telling me if you get the stage where they want to interview you and you impress them, they will still reject you because you paid for your training?

If I had the money to invest in line hours why would I settle to work at sainsbury's for 2 years till things blow over? I would rather spend the money on 500 hours on type which will look more appealing on a CV than zero hours, then work at sainsburys till things blow over and when things pick up I will be on the top of the CV pile because I have experience on type whilst others dont.

Thats the way I see it and I gather alot of people see it the same way and thats why they are going down this route.

[Dane-Ger]

So your telling me if you get the stage where they want to interview you and you impress them, they will still reject you because you paid for your training?I never said that, I merely answered you question with regards to how they would know you paid to work. You said "only an idiot would put that in bold writing". Only an idiot chief pilot would not be able to put two and two together.

But to answer your question, yes some airlines will, I'm sure, reject you. Just as some airlines will not accept a Spanish IR. There are others, of course, that will not care

[Abagnale]

So your telling me if you get the stage where they want to interview you and you impress them, they will still reject you because you paid for your training?
That is correct,but in 99 % of the cases pay to fly wonders don't get to the interview stage...The only exception might be Ryanair...And trust me,it's very easy to find out if you payed for your first job or not ;)

[TheBeak]

So you are going to do 'pay to fly' in Indonesia? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. And not terribly impressive.

[PIELORD]

The Beak

Would you care to expand a little?:rolleyes:

[Kirks gusset]

Although Lion Air have had "issues" and safety standards were a problem, feedback suggests they are cleaning their act up. They had a ban or "recruiting" foreign pilots, the local guys wanted foreign pilots to increase the level of experience following an overrun with a new 737 900, the government said NO. The agreement to train is likely to commence mid 2010 and EJ may also launch the Captain Program from Jakarta.
One issue to consider is the politics which can mean the agreement you get now could be worth Jack if the local position changes. Probably EJ will sell this line time, if it drops through, then I guess you end up in a queue for another line program like RAM. Speaking of RAM, some guys have been trying to get the DAG permit for the NG with only 4 hrs NG sim...NO you need 8, and a record of it, not 4 real plus 4 "Parker hours", the time to find out is not after you submit the applications. In other words, that cheap NG diffs could be the most expensive one you ever do!:=

[BritishGuy]

Mind my ignorance, but what is DAG and RAM?

[ford cortina]

It is actually DAC and it stands for, Direction de l'aéronautique Civile, the Civil Aviation Authority in Morocco, RAM stands for Royal Air Maroc, the National Airline of Morocco.

In order to fly in Morocco, for RAM, Jet4you.com, or Air Arabia Morocco, you have to undertake a DAC simulator check and have your license approved and validated by them.

Hope that helps.
FC

[mukoba737]

What is it with someone calling others a**hole???
What is wrong with Pprune??? Should they not be in the position to bann such users?

Some guys select their way forward. If this is line training...that means that FOs should consider working better and more management orientated and show that they are more valuable than someone like myself.
Instead of calling someone a**hole, consider that someone is looking to get a hold in the industry by himself. With the way he selected...with the choices that the market is offering...you guys make it as we are all friends and have to look out for each other...you call me or someone like me a a**hole...why should I not do my stuff even if it will cost your job...you call me a a**hole...so why should I care about your job?

Tired of hazard stuff being in Pprune...it harms the credibility of this site...which I think is a great place to get help and communicate with others.

Anyway...merry christmas...

m737

p.s. should someone wnat to talk about line training I moght need some help and I have some info for others...but as PPrune does not assist helpseeking people pls private message me as I have been mugged by others allready.

[Kirks gusset]

Ignore a lot of the negative comments on this site, at times it degenerates into a playground spat. There is no substance in the comments that airlines will reject a pilot because they paid for line training. Do these people honestly think that the interviewers will call guys forward if they are not interested. I would say that about 25% of our crews are self sponsored, this will increase when guys move on simply by the number of SSTR guys looking for jobs. Good luck, merry Xmas

[mukoba737]

kirks,

thank you. I do fully agree with you on this. As if someone will condem you for have tried whatever it takes to get to their interview.

The interviewers know the market situation and it is not less worth, if you have paid for hours on aircraft type! That is what I belive and have heard.

Merry X Mas

m737

[mr_bjork]

Dont hate the player, hate the game.

[abhi88]

Dont hate the player, hate the game.


There wouldn't be a game if there were no players!!:8

[go around flaps15]

And isn't Mr Eaglejet asking captains to pay to fly. He makes Ryanair look like angels. At least they pay you during line training and thereafter.

[L'aviateur]

Forget the moral's, if you want to answer the OP's original question then answer it, but he didn't ask for anyones moral advice and so why do you feel that you need to give it? It won't make the blind bit of difference, and doesn't affect your life.

[Abagnale]

mukoba737 (http://www.pprune.org/members/316999-mukoba737) ,you and the likes of you are ruining my life standarts,career opportunities(indirectly,obviously),for which I had to fight and struggle during many years and you don't like when somebody calls you an ass**le? Then you definitely are one ;)

[TheBeak]

L'aviateur if you ask a moralistic question you'll get a moralistic answer. Also, if you can prove what qualification you have to be the all seeing, all knowing spokesman please show it, until then don't try and control peoples answers/ thoughts/ opinions. D'accord?

As for the player/ game analogy. for the last time, :mad: off.

I agree go around flaps15, Ryanair is the way to go these days - but look, people don't like it anymore because there are so many unemployed pilots, Ryanair actually have standards and can choose who they want. It's so unfair that you can't buy a job with Ryanair any more. You actually have to earn your place......and then pay for it. But as you say, at least you do get some form of a job at the end of it.

Go Ryanair!

[Halfwayback]

This thread has degenerated far enough - with the usual protaganists regurgitating the same diatribe.

It's closed!

HWB