Indonesian Aviation

[aseanaero]

G'day everyone,

I thought it we be good to have a thread where we can all make comments on Indonesian aviation without always focusing on a single operator.

One of the issues that I see impacting on safety is the inability of operators to build hangars on airports such as Halim which is in reality a TNI-AU air base. Pondok Cabe would be ideal but this seems to be a Pelita and Government only airfield. Some AMOs have secretly set up facilities working inside some of the military hangars at Pondok Cabe but news travels fast and Pelita had them kicked off the airfield.

Some operators at Halim that weren't close to the Soeharto family in the old days still don't have their own hangars after 30 yrs and work on aircraft in a shelter which doesn't provide protection from the weather.

Perhaps it's time that Jakarta had a general aviation / training airfield where operators and AMOs were allowed to develop their own hangars and other permanent facilities ?

ps Good to see some DGCA guys on the forum now :ok:

[Massey058]

What about Budiarto in West Jakarta? ANI are based there. Pondok Cabe is a bit too small I think and in a densely populated area. Budiarto being on the fringes of the metropolis would seem to lend itself quite well to maintenance operations.

[training wheels]

There seems to be an increasing number of Indonesian operators, both large and small, opening their doors to foreign pilots. Has there been a change in the DGAC's policy towards allowing foreign expat pilots to work in Indonesia?

[Massey058]

Merpati F100 at Kupang on Dec 2nd 2009, landed without left main gear (http://avherald.com/h?article=423979a6&opt=0).

Where is Merpati at with the MA60's and the reported 6 ATR's they were going to lease? They have an increasingly aging fleet. CN-235 PK-MNC is grounded in Medan and parts seem to be pulled off now and then to keep PK-MNE flying.

I know its a political hot-potato of sorts but given they are such a basket case it really would make sense to start afresh with a 'regional carrier' being established within the Garuda Indonesia Group:

Garuda Indonesia - Domestic and International full-service
Citilink - National and International LCC
New Merpati - Domestic turbo-props

That would put the Garuda Group on a good footing to combat the increasing competition from Lion Air.

[training wheels]

This article was sent to me by a friend about a relatively minor incident involving a Susi Air C208 having blown a tyre on landing at Medan and closing the airport for 40 minutes.

Susi Air Kempes Ban Saat Landing di Polonia (http://www.analisadaily.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34961:susi-air-kempes-ban-saat-landing-di-polonia-&catid=31:umum&Itemid=143)

Seems like even brand new aircraft can have problems with wheels and undercarriages. :E

[Massey058]

Yes training wheels flat tyres happen from time to time, have experienced one myself.

Batavia popped a noswheel tyre on an A320 on landing in Medan about a week or so prior and caused flights to divert.

[GBV]

9 Hurt in Bali After Smoking Jet Engine Sends Passengers Scrambling

National aviation officials plan to evaluate Batavia Air personnel after an incident at Denpasar’s airport on Thursday in which nine passengers were hurt on one of the carrier’s jet when smoke from the engine caused a panic.

Herry Bhakti Singayuda, director general of civil aviation at the Transportation Ministry, said the cabin crew of the aircraft should have been able to calm passengers who were frightened after seeing smoke emanating from the rear engine of the plane and rushed to exit through the emergency doors.

“We will evaluate why the crew could not stop the passengers from panicking,” Herry said.

Eddy Haryanto, a spokesman for Batavia Air, explained that the pilot had just turned on the engines and the smoke was part of the ignition process.

“It’s a normal procedure,” he said, “but the passengers panicked and tried to save themselves.”

“There was no fire,” he said, adding that all the passengers had been evacuated and several of them were rushed to the hospital for treatment.

Heru Legowo, general manager of PT Angkasa Pura I, which manages Bali’s Ngurah Rai International Airport in Denpasar, said the nine injured passengers were being treated at Sanglah Hospital. Three of them are suffering from serious injuries.

Sonny Boy Saerang, one of the passengers, said he thought the plane was on fire.

“We were hysterical,” he said, “and we were tired and upset because we had been abandoned by the airline during the overnight delay.”

The Boeing 737-400 had been carrying 148 passengers from Surabaya, East Java to Kupang, East Nusa Tenggara. However, it was forced to stop in Bali on Wednesday night because an emergency forced Kupang’s El Tari Airport to close.

Sonny said the passengers had to wait at the airport because there was no overnight compensation from the carrier.

On Wednesday night, a Merpati Airlines’ Fokker 100 had to perform an emergency landing at Kupang airport after its left wheel failed to release.

Sukandi, public relations officer for Merpati, said the pilot, Capt. Budi Kartawijaya, decided to delay landing and requested the airport prepare ambulances and fire trucks for an emergency landing scenario.

Fortunately, the pilot managed to land the aircraft smoothly on only two wheels and all passengers and crew were unharmed.

“Everybody was safe and sound,” Sukandi said.

The plane, carrying 88 passengers, was en route from Makassar to Kupang.

JA Barata, a spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Committee (KNKT), said that a team of three had been sent to Kupang to investigate the El Tari case.

“This is a serious incident,” he said, adding that as of Thursday afternoon, El Tari was still closed.

However, Barata said, KNKT would only monitor the Batavia Air incident as it was not considered as serious.

9 Hurt in Bali After Smoking Jet Engine Sends Passengers Scrambling - The Jakarta Globe (http://thejakartaglobe.com/home/passengers-sent-into-panic-after-spotting-smoke-from-tail-of-bali-plane/345247)

[aseanaero]

What about Budiarto in West Jakarta?

I think there's some issues there also with building new facilities. When ANI moved to the larger hangar they spent a fortune refurbishing the hangar and moving the DGCA calibration office to a smaller hangar. Given all this expense and the large area of vacant land there why weren't they allowed just to build another hangar ? The biggest problem with Curug is getting there by road , I have done trips where it's taken 3 hrs one way.

There seems to be an increasing number of Indonesian operators, both large and small, opening their doors to foreign pilots. Has there been a change in the DGAC's policy towards allowing foreign expat pilots to work in Indonesia?

I was involved in getting a couple of turboprop freighters in here a few months ago and we were allowed to employ a foreign check and training captain for a maximum of 12 months and that was it.

I 'heard' that if an operator can't find sufficient numbers of pilots and they can find expat pilots willing to work for local pay they can do so but this sort of arrangement would be subject to review and local pilot supply. I'm sure others who have actually done it can provide better insight (there's a few expat jet pilots on pprune who work in Indonesia)

'Churcak' do you know what the policy on expat pilots is ?

[Massey058]

I think there's some issues there also with building new facilities. When ANI moved to the larger hangar they spent a fortune refurbishing the hangar and moving the DGCA calibration office to a smaller hangar. Given all this expense and the large area of vacant land there why weren't they allowed just to build another hangar ? The biggest problem with Curug is getting there by road , I have done trips where it's taken 3 hrs one way.

Which really is a shame because like you say expansion at Halim with TNI AU is pretty much a no-go. Also a ramp-up of operations there from an urban 'planning' (yes I said it in reference to Jakarta!) point of view wouldn't be ideal. Just seems that Curug would be ideal for an aviation business hub.

I think it took about an hour and half to get to Ciputat in afternoon traffic. But I can certainly see it taking 3 hours. That is the problem with Jakarta though and its good to see SBY again floating the idea of moving the administrative capital away from the Big Durian.

Don't suppose you know what is happening with Kuala Namu? I've still yet to positively sight it from the air although I have seen some pictures on the net.

[PK-KAR]

Aseanaero et al,
Hangars? That's literally a nationwide problem that's largely been swept under the carpet...
There's a Pelita Hangar at Palembang that's not being used if anyone wants it! *grin*

However, the problem seems to be the legality of land ownership and land lease within airports. It's often not clear who owns the land and who can approve such a lease or what have you.

Budiarto's main problem is... road access... and it's proximity to CGK... and the flying schools have problems there with regards to pedantic legality of VFR flying (plus the flight permits, which is again, a factor against General Aviation here).

The sad thing is, general aviation is so underappreciated here. Guys quickly forget that to get to the big planes, you gotta start from flying little planes, even if only for 200hrs or so.

Choke G/A and you choke your pilot supply.

Massey058,
Merpati? It's not just a hot potato... many wouldn't touch it even with a bargepole!
Kualanamu? Lots of small little nightmares surrounding legality of land sales, the highway access tenders, etc etc etc.

GBV,
The DGAC needs to look at pax behaviour. When panicked, they get violent (I mean very violent) with the cabin crew. I know one FA who has a POB or another blunt object whenever addressing panicked or unruly pax. Several FAs I know from at least 2 carriers have been punched by panicked pax trying to evac when an evac isn't required.

The pax's complaint of being "abandoned" by the airline should be looked into. Pax demands for compensations have been going on a ridiculous slide into stupidity, even though the various airlines' past sins are sometimes to blame.

One FA gave me a typed letter once with only dotted lines to fill in for the Captain's name, the purser's name, and the length of the delay. The date and flight number was typed in. The letter basically stated if the delay exceeds X minutes, they would force the crew to agree to compensating the passengers, regardless of the reason (weather or an airport closure).

Several FAs have cited possibility of a new type of organized crime set to blackmail airlines for the most ridiculous things, from delays, to damaged bags (with the evidence nicely removed by the pax and the claim letter comes 1 month after the flight). It is a worrying trend that many airline management have largely turned a blind eye. Crew are beginning to feel like their licenses are "blame bait" once more.

Churchak,
Unbalance is created by acting through irresponsibility, arrogance of distorted minds that pretend to be above all and in heavenly atmospheres.
Oh boy, don't get me started on that one. Common sense doesn't exist on some of them. They blame their inability to gain employment on more progressive airlines (in terms of pay and human factors) on a conspiracy. Blame someone else is not unique to Indonesian aviation... it's basically the negative side of modern Indonesian society.

By contributing positively according to common sense, rules and regulations, flight safety in Indonesia will continue to rise.
Indeed. We can't change it overnight. Rock the boat too much and the scumbags will win. All we can do is fight it systematically, progressively, with cool, and increments that make common sense, and slowly eliminate the ones who prefer to stick their heads in the sand.

PK-KAR

[Massey058]

The sad thing is, general aviation is so underappreciated here. Guys quickly forget that to get to the big planes, you gotta start from flying little planes, even if only for 200hrs or so.

Choke G/A and you choke your pilot supply.

Never a truer word spoken!

Kualanamu? Lots of small little nightmares surrounding legality of land sales, the highway access tenders, etc etc etc.

Guess even 2011 might look optimistic, the disaster that is Polonia will just have to struggle on.

On that note a Garuda 737-400 had a rejected take-off yesterday at close to V1, seems it may have been an engine problem. Tyres were blown as is sometimes the case in a high-speed abort and there was a small grass fire off the side of the runway. Tower were very slow to react and didn't seem to understand what other pilots were saying when they said there was a fire. Local pilots were quite embarrassed by the poor response.

The runway was subsequently closed for about 5 hours until the aircraft was finally towed off onto the taxiway. Apparently a number of flights who were sitting in the hold then began declaring 10 minutes fuel remaining, one even saying 6 minutes. I would sincerely hope that was until they had to divert to an alternate!

Have to say though despite the poor initial response by tower, control handled the aftermath quite well. More often than not you are left perplexed by what is going on in the terminal area but under a lot of pressure they actually made it work.

Well done to the Garuda guys as well, a high-speed abort is a high-pressure situation and I imagine Polonia's runway seems awfully short when you need to stop a jet in a hurry.

[aseanaero]

More often than not you are left perplexed by what is going on in the terminal area but under a lot of pressure they actually made it work.


I have a couple of first-time in Indo foreign visitors here today and we are having problems with security clearances , they are getting furstrated to no avail , I told them to just relax , it will all work out in the end.

This is one of the miracles of Indonesia , just when everything is spiralling out of control and disaster seems imminent it all clicks at once and the job gets done.

[PK-KAR]

Let's look at a more acute problem... rotorheads... we're so short of them it's ridiculous! Why? Again, it falls under G/A but operates under 135... A wonderful offer for all paid courses etc... but very few takers... reason? "We don't have girls on the rotary..." *despite the contrary for that company!* (you just can't win sometimes!)

The runway was subsequently closed for about 5 hours until the aircraft was finally towed off onto the taxiway.
Oh that threw mayhem... they had inadequate removal facilities... I mean come on... 5 hrs?
6 - 10 mins of fuel remaining? No prizes for guessing which carrier was telling the truth and which were lying about it... Hehehehe

Have to say though despite the poor initial response by tower, control handled the aftermath quite well. More often than not you are left perplexed by what is going on in the terminal area but under a lot of pressure they actually made it work.
One cannot help but wonder how long can this last until something breaks again!

---

I have a couple of first-time in Indo foreign visitors here today and we are having problems with security clearances , they are getting furstrated to no avail , I told them to just relax , it will all work out in the end.
You know the saying... Whiskey Tango India... Welcome To Indonesia...

This is one of the miracles of Indonesia , just when everything is spiralling out of control and disaster seems imminent it all clicks at once and the job gets done.
WTI mate... WTI! Hahahaha!
Again... how many times does this have to happen before what's imminent happens and the black sheep gets hunted again?

[WSSS]

This is one of the miracles of Indonesia , just when everything is spiralling out of control and disaster seems imminent it all clicks at once and the job gets done.

Miracle starts with the letter C in Indonesia. :E

[Lineboy4life]

This is one of the miracles of Indonesia , just when everything is spiralling out of control and disaster seems imminent it all clicks at once and the job gets done.

or CFIT...:}

[aseanaero]

Be advised that an airside visitors pass for a foreigner to the GA and charter parking area of Halim now requires an air force security clearance which will take between 7 and 10 days to process.

It was probably always a requirement but it was never enforced , now it is.

Anyone know what has triggered this ?

[aseanaero]

Are dukuns (witch doctors) a tax deductible operating expense ?

[BedakSrewet]

Which doctors ?:rolleyes:

[aseanaero]

One of the positive things I have seen is the reduction (about a 90% drop ion the last 5 yrs) in black market second hand 'ketok magic' parts which are stolen , have modified serial numbers or glued on data plates.

On the other side I have a lot of new surplus parts and hardware which I can't sell locally now as they don't have certification certificates which most of the operators need now , they end up being sold in bulk packages ... to the USA .. where they are recertified and live happily ever after.

[BedakSrewet]

Seriously, the problem with Indonesia ( which includes aviation ) can be described in two words:

D I S C I P L I N E

M A I N T E N A N C E

The lack of that is.....


Once these are under control the rest will follow automatically but I doubt that my children's children will witness this in their lifetime.

[rustam]

Dear fellow pilot.

I will only say one thing to you:
Forget about Susi Air.
There are much better companies to work for in Indonesia.

[training wheels]

Dear fellow pilot.

I will only say one thing to you:
Forget about Susi Air.
There are much better companies to work for in Indonesia.

And which companies would they be? Do they hire foreign, low time, expat pilots?

[PK-KAR]

Zlin,
We have another topics on Susi Air... why not read there...
http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/397482-susi-air.html

Massey
I for one am very happy that SBY got re-elected and Megawati was shunned.
She shunned herself mate... SBY's 1st inauguration she refused to attend, the 2nd one, she failed to turn up as well...

[rustam]

Hi training wheels

Try the following:

Travira
Premiair
Airfast

[aseanaero]

What happened to all the aeroclubs and flying groups that used to be around Jakarta ?

It seems the only active group now is FASI Pondok Cabe (gliders) , I've never seen any of the FASI aircraft at Halim move.

[GBV]

Indonesian plane skids off runway

JAKARTA, Dec. 13 (Xinhua) --

A Boeing 737-400 plane operated by Indonesian budget airline, Lion Air, skidded off the runway when it landed in Pekanbaru airport, Sumatra, Sunday, local media reported.

The report said that the plane's gear passed off the runway and ended up at the tip of the airport's runway at around 15:00 local time.
It made passengers panic and disrupted flights in and out the Pekanbaru airport for hours. Many planes delayed their flight schedules. It took one hour to evacuate 165 passengers from the plane, the report said.
"We ban the pilot, M. Novan, from continuing his flight duty on Sunday and order Lion Air to undertake internal audit on the plane, aborted all of the plane's flights schedule until we have received the report on the audit result," Transportation Ministry Spokesperson Bambang Ervan was quoted by the Detik.com as saying. Plane landing mishaps were frequently reported recently. Earlier this month, a Fokker 100 plane operated by Merpati Nusantara airlines landed with incomplete landing gear in East Nusantenggara province airport that disrupted all flights in the airport.

Indonesian plane skids off runway_English_Xinhua (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/14/content_12641935.htm)

[migair54]

Hello all

I have been trying to contact some airlines in Indonesia to ask for ATR F/O vacancies but I couldn´t get any answer

Do you know any airline there who needs ATR pilots??

Is it a good idea to go there and try to find by my own or they don´t do it??

[brasmelzuit]

I hope it'll help, airline in Indonesia with ATR fleets are:
1. IAT (Indonesia Air Transport)
2, Trigana Air
3. Kal-Star
4. Wings Air (not yet, but soon)
5. Merpati Nusantara (not yet, but soon)

You might want to consider Firefly or MASWings in Malaysia as ATR operator.

[the wizard of auz]

This is one of the miracles of Indonesia , just when everything is spiralling out of control and disaster seems imminent it all clicks at once and the job gets done.

That was exactly my experiance whilst flying in Indonesia as well. Just about every time I was about to give up, it all came together.

[aseanaero]

Hi Oz,

Yes and it doesn't do too good for your stress levels !

The only good thing about the chaos (unclear processes, process changes from week to week, parts substitution and unlogged component changes blah blah) from a business sense is being based locally it keeps the offshore based competition away from buying and supplying aircraft and components.

The downside of this is a PK registered aircraft will sell for 30% to 50% less than the same aircraft in a developed country which adds more cost to the operator when wanting to sell or upgrade aircraft, missing 10% ir 20% of logbooks and other crucial paperwork is common.

A previous poster summed it up , DISCIPLINE , logbooks are the worst many of my overseas buyers have seen. Exceptions are some of the business jet operators which are generally very good.

We bought a JT8D last year that supposedly had 18 cycles to go , we recalculated hours and cycles since the last overhaul and found that it still had 1,268 cycles to go ! And we've also found engines that have had errors putting them into negative cycles or hours , not on purpose , just sloppy maths.

I always wonder how non english speaking engineers (and there are a lot of them) make sense of a maintenance manual that even a native english speaker has to read some parts 3 times to understand the manual writers techno-babble.

[aseanaero]

Anyone know whether this classic still flies?


It hadn't flown for about 7 years.

Mid 2009 it was moved to Cengkareng airport and now sits as a monument freshly painted up in early Garuda colors in front of the Garuda Maintenance Facility (GMF) , they did the whole project in less than a month including moving it and it looks stunning with it's polished engine cowls.

[brasmelzuit]

this is how it looks like now..
http://http://www.airliners.net/photo/Garuda-Indonesia/Douglas-C-47A-Skytrain/1572689/L/&rurl=translate.google.co.id&anno=2&usg=ALkJrhigLVhHnJE1Hzowh-TFvJbqvF-Y1g (http://http//www.airliners.net/photo/Garuda-Indonesia/Douglas-C-47A-Skytrain/1572689/L/&rurl=translate.google.co.id&anno=2&usg=ALkJrhigLVhHnJE1Hzowh-TFvJbqvF-Y1g)

[aseanaero]

http://64.19.142.13/cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/9/8/6/1572689.jpg

It's a grainy photo , it looks much better in reality

[PK-KAR]

1. IAT (Indonesia Air Transport)
2, Trigana Air
3. Kal-Star
4. Wings Air (not yet, but soon)
5. Merpati Nusantara (not yet, but soon)
IAT's ATR42-500 is now with Gatari... as far as I know, they're not recruiting.
Trigana is a "funny bunch"
Kal-Star is a fun job if you like 10 - 15 mins ground stops with 1/2hr fligths... and countless cycles a day!

We bought a JT8D last year that supposedly had 18 cycles to go , we recalculated hours and cycles since the last overhaul and found that it still had 1,268 cycles to go ! And we've also found engines that have had errors putting them into negative cycles or hours , not on purpose , just sloppy maths.
I guess that wouldn't surprise you if I tell you we found at least 2 airframes that lost 8000 cycles and hours a year in "sloppy logbooks"... yes the plane aged in reality, but the paperwork keeps the planes young! *puke*

I always wonder how non english speaking engineers (and there are a lot of them) make sense of a maintenance manual that even a native english speaker has to read some parts 3 times to understand the manual writers techno-babble.
Oh boy, don't get me started on that one!!!!!

The C-47, sad story, the airframe was still "airworthy-able" when they chopped it and sent it to Garuda HQ, well, Airfast had no DC-3 or C-47 qualified pilots. (almost) No one preserves anything old in flying condition here, we're throwing our aviation history away from the ramps into gate guardians all the bloody time.

[aseanaero]

No one preserves anything old in flying condition here, we're throwing our aviation history away from the ramps into gate guardians all the bloody time.

The DC-3 was worse than it looked , all the control surfaces needed to be recovered and some corrosion.

I look at all the FASI aircraft sitting there at Halim (Beech T34As, Bravos etc) and the 2 Harvards on the airbase side of Halim and they are rotting into the ground and it's sad, most of them are getting beyond the point of being able to be made airworthy again.

[training wheels]

Any idea when the Wings Air ATRs will be delivered? There are pics of it on Airliner.net and the press releases say they'll be here by year's end. Well, that's only a few weeks away. So have they been delivered yet?

Photos: ATR ATR-72-500 (ATR-72-212A) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Wings-Air/ATR-ATR-72-500-%28ATR-72-212A%29/1557445/L/)

Photos: ATR ATR-72-500 (ATR-72-212A) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/ATR-ATR-72-500-%28ATR-72-212A%29/1574923/L/)

[PK-KAR]

Aseanaero, I was told by an airfast engineer that the Dak was airworthy up to 2002 when the company gave up keeping it airworthy since they haven't had a pilot for it since 2001. Geez, time flies!

[aseanaero]

I made an offer to buy the C-47 and I spent a few hours going over it , I believe it would have been airworthy in 2001/2002 but in mid 2008 it needed engines and props overhauled, ailerons and elevators recovered and a couple of patches of corrosion patched up , and that was what was visible.

The 2 FASI Daks are not looking too flash either , one is now a basket case and the other is borderline. I think these are the last 2 C-47s in Indo ?

I looked at the DGCA records and there was once 175 C-47s on the indonesian register and 4 DC-6s !

[GBV]

Any idea when the Wings Air ATRs will be delivered?


First one is already in Indonesia, PK-WFH.

It is said that Manado will be the main hub for Wings Air. They have plans to build a hangar and a training center at Sam Ratulangi airport. Even an ATR42/72 simulator is on the schedule.

[aseanaero]

http://www.russianaeros.com/images/SU26%20PK-SDM%201.jpg http://www.russianaeros.com/images/SU26%20PK-SDM%202.jpg

Anyone know the story behind this SU-26 PK-SDM photographed in Bandung (year unknown) and what it was doing in Indonesia ?

I found an entry in the Indonesian register showing it was a 1996 model but there is no record of it being re-exported.

I read somewhere on the DGCA website that an SU-26 crashed in the Sunda Strait but can't find any further details so it must have happened a while ago, I'm guessing it was the same aircraft as it looks like only one SU-26 made it down here.

Was it a demonstrator aircraft for a tender or project or a bit of weekend fun for someone ?


.

[ThrustClimb]

Hi Migair,

Try Wings Air. I saw their brand new ATR 72-500s yerterday at WIII.
They have a huge ATR order.


GoodLuck!

TC.

[aseanaero]

I wonder how many expat pilots in total are flying in Indonesia ? Ok, Susi Air has a 20 or 30 (?) expat pilots , how many with other airlines and operators ? 50 to 100 in total ?

There's 1 Filippino check and training captain on a freight operation I'm involved with and he's on a short term work permit until the local pilots have sufficient ICUS with but really you don't see that many expats around.

Probably a lot of expat heli pilots though in remote areas as there is virtually no local supply.

It seems a lot apply to work here but very few get jobs unless they can offer check and training not available locally.

All the turboprop operators are screaming for pilots as their more senior guys are going jets with the airlines so I guess there maybe a chance on the ATR for a foreign pilot short term.

[PK-KAR]

All the turboprop operators are screaming for pilots as their more senior guys are going jets with the airlines so I guess there maybe a chance on the ATR for a foreign pilot short term.
They ain't getting many because of the puny amount on their paychecks (I recall one offering left seat on a 50 seater for much less than a jet right seater)

After talking to the management of one operator, I foresee that this will continue, that one have atrocious working conditions that expats being offered widebody salaries might still not touch even with a bargepole!

[halfwaythere]

If I was to hazard a guess as to how many expats flying in Indonesia, I would say between 200-300. Susi is close to 100 pilots by now and there is almost 20 operators off the top of my head that currently have expats, most of which are not limited to TRI/TRE positions.

Something to add, which hasn't yet been mentioned in this forum, or the Batavia forum, is that Batavia recently advertised for ATR crews.

[GBV]

Batavia recently advertised for ATR crews


Considering what i heard about the B737 contract, i think Batavia will offer only a daily nasi goreng with teh botol as a "salary" to the ATR drivers. Oh no, if you sign a 10 years bond they may give some bakso now and then...:E

[aseanaero]

I avoid Bakso like the plague. The 2 times I have been REALLY sick eating food here were from meatballs.

[PK-KAR]

Considering what i heard about the B737 contract, i think Batavia will offer only a daily nasi goreng with teh botol as a "salary" to the ATR drivers. Oh no, if you sign a 10 years bond they may give some bakso now and then...
I had to re-read that a few times to realize that U're not deluding yourself... "A daily nasigoreng"... hehehe, not "nasi goreng as daily mealS"... :ok:

I avoid Bakso like the plague. The 2 times I have been REALLY sick eating food here were from meatballs.
I have as a rule, avoided bakso before flights unless it's from a credible stall... (to which, none of the stalls at Halim or CGK qualifies as "credible Bakso stalls").

Attention: Bakso balls with Gin and Bir Bintang have severe effects the next morning before flight!
Or excess Durians... there's no hangover worse than trying to put your uniform on in the morning after a night of Durian and Bintang... let alone make it to the airplane! :}

[aseanaero]

What's the total population of pilot's in Indonesia ?

I won't even guess at this as I was out by a factor of 3 on the expats !

[aseanaero]

Is Trigana's Caribou still serviceable ? Last week I spoke with an engineer who has been in Sentani for a few months and he said the DHC4 hasn't moved in that time.

[Massey058]

aseanaero,

Haven't been down to Papua for a while now but as far as I know the 'bou is parked up in Sentani. I think they did a couple of flights after the gear collapse and that was it. If only the ATR 42 could make it into Mamit eh!

Their 737-200 has started cargo ops to Wamena apparently now. Do you know if it is the one that was Parked up at Pondok Cabe? PK-YG* (saya lupa).

[aseanaero]

No , the 737-200 pax (ex Jatayu ?) is still parked next to Indopelita , it's a basket case and will never fly again.

Interesting they are taking a 737-200 into Wamena, must be way down on payload ? 732s are really cheap now around $1 to 1.5 mil for a good one , cheap ones around $800 to $900k , less than a Caravan :)

[Massey058]

Actually my bad it turns out its a 737-300 so maybe not payload restricted but would surely be 'exciting' out of Wamena.

[aseanaero]

Hi Massey ,

Are you sure it's a 737-300 ? I thought Trigana had a 732 (JT8D engines) ?

[Massey058]

Was told it was a 737-300 but should get to see some photos soon.

[aseanaero]

Does anyone know anything about Rumpin Airport (WI) ?

What's the purpose , a previous satellite training field for Curug ?

It looks disused.

Google Earth

6°22'29.41"S , 106°37'29.45"E

Update : Apparently it's air force land in dispute with local landowners , the 2 aircraft parked were Malaysian Air Force.

[aseanaero]

Was told it was a 737-300 but should get to see some photos soon.


Yes , it's a 737-300 , it went into service late December '09

[PK-KAR]

733 into Wamena? That got some people's eyes popping out! :}

As for Rumpin, it is disused. The Air Force use it for Special Forces training (Heli ops for troop insertion on water) at the lake next door.

Fancy putting a couple of hangars up there and use it for G/A? It's not that far off Serpong. The problem is, the runway is used for drag racing by the locals. Trying to reconvert it back to an operational runway will surely bring some local riots if ur unlucky. :p

[aseanaero]

I read some local news stories on Rumpin and the land disputes between the air force and locals , don't think it would be too nice to be in the middle of that :bored:

[avi8r.mir]

Any jobs opertunities in East Asia for A320 rated pilots ?

Cheers :)

[aseanaero]

Why ISN'T there a big Aerial Application and Waterbombing aviation sector in Indonesia ?

I think one of the plantations in Kalimantan has just received an AT-802 Air Tractor as there was one parked at Halim for a few weeks and Satuan Udara Pertanian used to use PZL Wilgas and Porters , why didn't it catch on here in Indonesia ?

Also the massive forest fires in Kalimantan would be an opprotunity for waterbombing , anyone have any insight on these issues ?

[dirtybungs]

maybe because it's cheaper to let 'em burn rather than trying hard to counter the fires? since when the indonesians know how to extinguish forest fires? im sure malaysian and singaporean dont have many things to complaint about!!

[aseanaero]

Someone said to me that as most of these fires are deliberately lit for burning off you would probably end up getting your waterbomber torched for trying to put them out , probably some truth in that.

[aseanaero]

Can anyone advise of a company that stocks aviation paint stripper in Jakarta or Bandung ? I need about 200 litres , thanks

[aseanaero]

Wamena (Indonesia's version of the Bermuda Triangle) ate another aircraft at lunchtime today , an AN-26B , the aircraft is heavily damaged but reports are the crew is ok

[smiling monkey]

an AN-26B , the aircraft is heavily damaged but reports are the crew is ok

Who is the operator?

[aseanaero]

Operator is Manunggal using a Georgian crew, aircraft was carrying rice and lost control on landing

[aseanaero]

Can anyone advise which CASR or Advisory refers to Aircraft Age and Cycle Limits on Import ?

Word of mouth is 20 yrs and less than 50,000 cycle life limit on pax aircraft for imports and a max life of 35 yrs / 70,000cycles for existing aircraft but I want to find the actual regulation

Update : Found it , Ministry Decree KM 5/2006

[smiling monkey]

will they be hiring type rated ATR 72 F/Os?

They seem to have a steady supply from within their ranks as they phase out the MD80 as well as recruiting locals from other airlines doing their type ratings in Bangkok. There are still another 12 ATRs to arrive but word is that they're also setting up a flying school in Manado to train their own pilots for future needs.

[myknobblyknees]

Anyone got a rough idea what these latest gross income are for line Capts,TRI and TRE ?
Is there housing or schooling assistance in addition?
Much appreciated.

[PK-KAR]

Aseanaero,
You heading off to Halim (or did you) to watch >50% of our air force fighting capability hanging around the capital for some exercises?

Also the massive forest fires in Kalimantan would be an opprotunity for waterbombing , anyone have any insight on these issues ?
Permits issue...
The DGCA may give all the paperwork you need, but intra-provincial flights have the local provincial transportation directorate asking for hideous amounts of money...

Even the DGCA is complaining about these guys!

You know Indonesia, anything that's not scheduled = opportunity to scalp for some envelopes!

Anyone got a rough idea what these latest gross income are for line Capts,TRI and TRE ?
Carrier A: line Cpts $4000 basic, $40 - $50 per hour, plus other stuff like attendance/productivity allowances, 80 - 90hrs a month, 50 guaranteed.
Carrier B: line Cpts $3700 - $4000 basic, $15 - $20 per hour. 60-100hrs, plus some other allowances.
Carrier C: line Cpt Expats $4000 inclusive of 100hrs monthly, plus some housing assistance/allowance (others here would probably help out on the details of this one).
And then there is...
Carrier D: line Cpt $3000, $10 - $25 per hour, hours >100 monthly.
Carrier E: line Cpt. $4000, $30 - 45 per hour, but <75hrs monthly (sometimes it gets down to 40hrs).

A-E are jet mainliners. Others I dunno... doesn't include NG operators...

Is there housing or schooling assistance in addition?
Someone said to me, better off going without those stuff... some carrier might use it to tie you down further with it to do the "unthinkable".

PK-KAR

[guiness1]

To ALL foreigner pilots, if you come here to work and moan about pretty much everything in Indonesian aviation, don't come.
And if you come here to work and disrespect Indonesian people, don't come.

Look at susi air pilots very good example, they can't even respect themselves.

[Latitude1]

Yeah man,

Does anyone know what the Suzi Air pilots put up with in Indo ! Well, they put up with so much crap it`s unbelievable. They only hire 200hr guys with no experience at all - good luck. Flight salary is $600/ month- yes that`s right. After 1 yr, you get $1,000/month. You would have rocks in your head and no respect for yourself if you work for these bent operators.

Don`t be used and abused all u guys out there. Have a bit of self worth for god sake !

[Fright Level]

I flew an Airfast HS748 in the early 90's and remember their Dak in the pre dawn at Seletar with a foot of blue flame from each engine. A beautiful sight. The plane hardly flew except for the occasional Dart engine ferry as it was regarded as the boss' toy. I did try to put together a business proposal to fit the a/c in 1940's style and fly tourists linking in with their Orient Express journey in SE Asia but Airfast weren't interested.

Is anyone in contact with Seletar based pilots of that period (Suryanto, Arnold etc?), maybe you could pm me if you have an email for them.

[aseanaero]

KAR , yep , I did see the SU-27s , F-16s , F-5s (didn't think any were still flying) and Hawks , the occasion was TNI-AU's birthday. Good to see them getting into the air and making some noise and those Sukhois are BIG !

Freight - The Airfast Dak is now parked in front of GMFs offices with an old time Garuda paint job , looking pretty , we tried to buy it for $20,000 and Garuda got it for $25,000 . It wasn't a bad airframe but it hadn't flown for 8 yrs and needed a lot of work.

[guiness1]

To aseanaero:
I saw it myself it looks pretty good! nice work!

To latitude:
that is one part the other is susi air pilots fight with each other its a big circus.
50 millions Rp for each pilot with no work permit!

[STOLFLYER]

Heard someone is proposing to keep the Seleparang Airport in Lombok as GA Airport after operation is moved to the new BIL (Bandara International Lombok) end of this year. However this is a new concept even local Government is supportive but due to business consideration it may not be possible.
This needs support of GA and Pilots in the Country to convince the owner of the land that such project is better to convert it to a shopping mal. By the way, who will go to shop in Lombok?
If it can be a GA Center, say for a few years, then with situation change, it can be reassessed again if it can be changed to other use or remain for GA. There is no need to be hurry.
In Jakarta, heard that DGCA will not approve new operatin of 141 there. New 141 needs to go elsewhere. Is Lombok a better location with its resorts and close proximity to Bali? If Lombok is developed as GA Center, it can attractive GA enthusiasts to the island, increase its name among people of same hobby in the region and then make the name of Lombok known to the World.
Can you (Indo GA fans) think of other ways of making use of the opportunity?

[aseanaero]

In Jakarta, heard that DGCA will not approve new operatin of 141 there. New 141 needs to go elsewhere

The country is desperate for competitively priced competent 141s with runway access and hangars , the current existing maintenance orgs with workshops on airports and various vested interests will either kill this off or the pricing will be so expensive it will never materialize :ugh:

Lombok is a bit out of the way from both 'action centres' being West Java and Papua but better than nothing.

I have overseas investors who will set up workshops here if they could see they were given support not discouragement. So far too hard and too risky.

I can see the airport becoming a shopping mall , Indonesia is good at building malls.

[STOLFLYER]

I heard Sky Aviation has problem with its past management that they need to reapply their 141 school from Ground Zero. It is a pity as they have two brand new Aspen equiped Liberty XL2 sitting in US for year waiting to be shipped.
I agree that Seleparang can be the best location for GA, West Java is too congested and not too many scenic spots. Papua is too dangerous with mountains and unpredictable weather. Lombok is not as famous as Bali and is always under Bali's shadow like its younger brother. Bali is well known Worldwide and people can come and with a week holiday they can fly to the east as far as to see Komodo.
At the moment, for foreign pilots to fly in Indonesia during short stay is almost impossible, I mean solo. May be with instructor and with a Club instead of 135 or141, this problem can be solved. Sky Aviation is working with Indonesia Flying Club on this.
Thailand, Phillipine, Malaysia have active GA activities, why not in Indonesia. This will bring in hard-earned foreign money not to mention to improve pilot's skill and popularity.
Can Seleparang be turned to an Air Park, crazy idea, may be? But people are buying properties in Bali and Lombok including from foreigners. I know a few retired pilots living in the area, mostly Dutch. I am sure their hands are itching to take the control.
Thanks for your comments, good or bad. It is important to look at things from two sides, especially from negative opinions. If there is one that youcannot give an answer, there is a problem.
Hope there will be more opinions from the blog, especially those who think Seleparang is not the ideal place.:cool:

[aseanaero]

At the moment, for foreign pilots to fly in Indonesia during short stay is almost impossible, I mean solo. May be with instructor and with a Club instead of 135 or141, this problem can be solved.

The problem is TNI security clearances.

It would be nice to see Indonesia have healthy private and sport aviation sectors.

Does anyone know who owns the Pitts S2S that has just started flying a Halim ?

[aseanaero]

Who owns the land at Seleparang ? Looks like Angkasa Pura 1 ? If they make the ground leases cheap enough and provide encouragement and support it could be attractive.

[STOLFLYER]

For Security Clearance (SC), if I am not wrong, if you are not the PIC (who knows) and you are accompanied by instructors who has Security Clearance, it will be okay. So if instructor is Indonesian, there is no need for SC, if he is an expat and all his/her paper work done properly (not as Susi Air which really scared me), he/she can fly with those tourist without problem. Anyway, for tourists coming for fun, no one wants to put them in danger, so it is better if they fly with instructor.:)

Talking bout Susi Air, that is a shame. She is Indonesian although her husband is not. Why she has to do such thing to harm the reputation of her Country.:= If only 10% what was said in the blog is right, their AOC should be revoked. I heard and knew a few good guys in DGCA who return "uang terimakasih" when they were given such.:D We need more people of such integrity to make our Country strong.:ok:

Ok, back to Selaparang, heard that even the Governor (NTB) is not sure who is the owner. Seems API owns the majority, some belongs to the Air Force and some belongs to the City (Mataram). So, very complicated. They have had several meetings on this issue but still cannot decide. May be you have heard, the Governor is a young guy in his late 30's or very early 40's, speak several languages (5 or 6), high tech and really wants to build up NTB where he comes from.

Don't ever dream of API will give up cheap, they do not want to keep it as competitor of BIL. They just want to sell it for commercial development. Also heard that the area is swamp area used for water catchman, so City Authority do not want to change land usage.

aseanaero, thanks for your input. Please share more opinion.:)

[training wheels]

STOLFLYER, that's all very interesting. I have a soft spot for Lombok as it brings back many fond memories of my youth when I used to backpack there all around the island.

Anyway, I've sent you a private message, so please check it at your earliest convenience and look forward to hearing back from you. :)

[Saint Jack]

I've been following this thread for some time and it's encouraging to hear that some new developements are in the pipeline to advance and expand aviation activities in Indonesia - it's long overdue.

But I can't help thinking that most of this will come to naught if the various landowners involved, be they AP1, AP2 or TNI-AU etc., will not provide proper facilities and hangarage or permit facilities and hangars to be built.

It sometimes makes me cry when, for example, I go to Halim and see all those beautiful, sophisicated, modern aircraft sitting outside baking in the sun when they should be in a hangar. I really feel for the poor mechanics who must do everything under these conditions.

Perhaps it is because so many Indonesian operators don't have access to a hangar, or simply don't care, that these mechanics sometimes, and here I must emphasise 'sometimes', don't seem to care either. I often cringe when I see the average Indonesian aircraft mechanic's toolbox, some of them would barely permit basic maintenance of a bicycle - and the toolbox is often shared with a friend - but the mechanic is expected to maintain modern aircraft to a high standard of airworthiness.

If these new operators, whoever they may be, aspire to provide a quality service to their clients then they in turn must ensure that their employees have access to quality facilities and equipment to provide such quality. There are no shortcuts.

[STOLFLYER]

Aseanaero, The owner of Pitts is a high star General from the Air Force.

[aseanaero]

I often cringe when I see the average Indonesian aircraft mechanic's toolbox, some of them would barely permit basic maintenance of a bicycle - and the toolbox is often shared with a friend - but the mechanic is expected to maintain modern aircraft to a high standard of airworthiness.

The last project we did the Australian engineer (also an aircraft owner and operator) felt so sorry for the local engineers that he gave the local engineers all the new hand tools and cordless power tools that he bought for the project as well as a nice tip , the local engineers had tears in their eyes , he made a couple of friends for life.

The engineers had worked hard and totally deserved the gifts.

It put a smile on my face also watching this , sometimes tools are more appreciated than cash for those trying to do their job properly

[Chimbu chuckles]

Does that Australian built F86 (CA27) Sabre still fly at Bandung? I saw it fly once. Was wheeled out of the big hangars, took off zipped around for 20 minutes, landed and was wheeled inside again.

Last time I was there there was also another CA27 parked on the civil side of the field complete with all instruments, armament etc but clearly un airworthy.

I took this pic - this is 2002 probably.

http://www.fototime.com/{3A1D9635-DA7D-4CBA-A0E4-B739981D3820}/origpict/CA27-BDG.JPG

[aseanaero]

Hi Chimbu ,

I have about 10 sets of NOS Sabre mains and nose tyres in the warehouse (still with RAAF Roseberry stores tags on them), I'm taking a few sets up to Bandung to give to the tech college , I'll find out.

[prince292]

Hi
I hold a Canadian CPL+ME i currently have 238hrs ,i graduated from Harvs Air winnipeg in 2007 it has been more than 2 yrs i couldn find my first flying job ,Canada is tough as i need a work permit and i am not Canadian , can anyone PLS help me or guide me about finding a job in Indonesia i tried Susi air but no reply , i also hold a Masters in Business if this can be of any help pls guide .... i feel so helpless
i thank everyone here for their time and effort who replies and guides me .......

cheers
Rosariohttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

[aseanaero]

What's the DGCA and other government approval costs for setting up a 135 cargo AOC ?

I have spoken with the DGCA just prior to Idul Fitri and they 'will get back to me'

I've heard figures of up to US$500,000 , does this sound correct ?

[aseanaero]

I heard Sky Aviation has problem with its past management that they need to reapply their 141 school from Ground Zero

Wow , you would have thought a revision in the existing AOC would sort out any problems they have. They have a reasonable sized and very nice office full of people at Halim with no aircraft flying so it's costing someone a lot of money every month.

[piratepete]

Whatever you do, even if extremely desperate to get some kind of jet time, 737/A320 etc, take my advice and do not work for this outfit.You will be very very sorry.WHY??
There are hundreds of reasons but here are a few.
The DFO is an egotistical jerk, and he will give you a lot of mis-information.
The aircraft are poorly maintained heaps of junk.This even extends to their newish 319/320s.The 737 fleet-I wont even go there.
The terrain and weather can be very very challenging even for experienced, safety conscious pilots, but you will find the BTV pilots pushing the limits all the time.They had several runway excursions last year that I know of.
Training is not something they are good at, and it is avoided if possible.
There is absolutely no standardisation or use of an SOP system.Every Captain uses his own SOPs.The DFO invents his own procedures in the SIM.
Good luck with trying to use english in the cockpit, this is a big issue.CRM? forget it, expect to be yelled at at various times for no understandable rerason.....
I could go on and on.OH expect to get paid a joke salary, and have anything and everything offered to you over the phone interview dishonoured upon arrival in Jakarta.
Having said all that, there are many many very nice people working there, locals I mean, they are all just victims of the same crap you will endure during your "adventure" there.Cheers.......Pete!

[HurryUp&Retire]

Does anyone here works for Wings Air?

[aseanaero]

Anyone have info on the Trigana 737-300 hard landing at Wamena a few days ago ?

The grapevine says the aircraft is repairable but its going to be expensive due to the remote location

[SayItIsntSo]

Some Asean newspapers are reporting an aircraft crashed in Nabire district of Papua province in the last couple of days killing 5. Any info anybody?

[Massey058]

Tempo Interaktif:
Tempointeraktif.com - Police Airplane Crashes in Papua, Three Bodies Found (http://www.tempointeractive.com/hg/nasional/2010/10/28/brk,20101028-287803,uk.html)

Sadly it's the second Polisi Udara PZL Skytruck within 12 months to go down by the looks of it.

[onezeroonethree]

Hi guys,

I'm a low hour (200TT) aussie looking for work. I hold a bare CPL at the moment but am planning to go do a MECIR.

I am trying to gather some information and also opinions about working in Indonesia. If anyone can assist me with information or advice it would be greatly appreciated, whether on here or via private message.

I have read this entire thread and gone through pprunes, google and tried to contact some pilots in Indonesia but without much success.

Any info would be appreciated - also any expats (aussies?) working over there who are or were in similar positions as me - if you could share some info it would be awesome!

Thanks :ok:

[Massey058]

Anyone have info on the Trigana 737-300 hard landing at Wamena a few days ago ?

No real info but just been down there and it's a fairly nasty crease in the fuselage above the 'I' in the Trigana titles. American Engineers have just arrived to assess the damage.

[aseanaero]

Thanks Massey , I also heard it has a big crease in it ... should be a 'fun' job trying to fix it at Wamena

[arba]

just curious, how much is the runway length? What kind of instrument approach serving that runway? any VASI/PAPI? thanks.

[Massey058]

Runway 15 is generally always taken by the jets even with tailwinds of up to 20 knots. The LDA for 15 is 1750m. Wamena is at an elevation of 5084 feet.

The larger turbo-props and jets tend to touch down at the 500 foot markers and the 737's especially seem to have full reverse out until they reach the opposite threshold.

[arba]

20knots tailwind ..
tough sh!t ! thanks

why only RW15 for jet? the letdown?

[Massey058]

why only RW15 for jet? the letdown?

It's the most direct for arriving traffic. While there is plenty of room for a downwind to 33 for a 737 I guess manoeuvring for final could potentially be bit tight as there is the valley wall on the right-hand side.

[ooizcalling]

Slight change of thread, but still Indonesian Aviation. Can anyone tell me what the age limit for ATPL pilots (in Command) is in Indonesia. Done a lot of Google searches but can't find any info so far. Thanks.

[brasmelzuit]

21 is the minimum, 65 is the max

[southernskyz]

http://flights.indonesiamatters.com/files/2010/11/airliners-150x150.jpg
Aircraft Number Requirements (http://flights.indonesiamatters.com/301-aircraft-number-requirements/)

Nov 2nd, 2010

The days are numbered for many smaller airlines in Indonesia, with new regulations coming into force requiring them to operate at least ten vessels.

By January 12th 2012 all Indonesian airlines must operate at least ten aircraft, with a minimum of five to be owned by the airline company, while the remaining five may be rented. Failure to comply with the new regulation could see airlines having their operating certification withdrawn by the Ministry of Transport.

Edward A. Silooy, the Director of the Air Traffic section of the Department of Transportation, said the matter would not be postponed again, that January 12th 2012 was the final deadline for compliance.The new law is to protect passengers [from small, financially unsound operators]. If they don’t operate ten vessels they will be shut down.
Companies that did not have sufficient capital to purchase at least five aircraft, and rent five others, could not be allowed to fly, he went on, in order to ensure safety standards (http://www.indonesiamatters.com/5940/airline-safety/).
He said the government did not want to see any more disasters and airline company failures, like that of Adam Air (http://www.indonesiamatters.com/1046/adam-air-crash/).
A further requirement of the law is that operators must present a five year financial and company plan to the ministry.

The airlines which currently do not meet the requirements are:

Riau Airlines (operates 5)
KALStar Aviation (operates 2)
Pelita Air Service (operates 3)
Travira Air (operates 2)
Trigana Air Service (operates 12, ownership status unclear)
Indonesian AirAsia (operates 15, none owned)
Travel Express (not known)
Dirgantara Air Service (not known)The following airlines already fulfill the requirements: Garuda Indonesia, Merpati Nusantara, Lion Air, Batavia Air, Wings Air, Sriwijaya Air, and charter operator Indonesia Air Transport.
The Secretary-General of the Indonesia National Air Carriers Association (INACA), Tengku Burhanuddin, complains that many of his members are unable to meet the 10 plane requirement because of a worldwide market shortage of viable aircraft, the situation made worse by limited ability to access credit from banks. Tengku said it was likely some airlines would have to merge to survive. (Bisnis Indonesia (http://www.bisnis.com/sektor-riil/transportasi/1id217791.html))

[Massey058]

Absolute rubbish it is. There is no discernable link between fleet size and safety. At best it could make the job of oversight easier for the DGCA if there was consolodation, given this is the primary reason for the EU ban.

However, they did envoke 'Adam Air' certainly not a small airline. Adam Air Mk II (Lion Air) and Merpati prove that fleet size does not prevent accidents.

Travira (definitely operate a lot more than 2 aircraft) in any audit would surely be classified as far safer than the Lion Air or Merpati.

1 step forward and 2 steps back I guess.

[aseanaero]

As with any of these fleet size rules it makes the barrier to entry that much harder. It may make some sense for the RPT operations but a blanket policy is really going to harm aviation here.

Indonesia is a developing country with so many opportunities to develop new cargo and passenger runs and many new potential charter operators will just give up , the cost to start up a new operation in the future will to $20 to $30 million , better to sit in your villa in bali and get a massage.

Once these geniuses dream these rules up it's very difficult to get them to back off.

For me personally it will be good for business in the short term to sell off aircraft as operators close their doors but in the long run it's bad

[Saint Jack]

I can’t help but agree with Massey058, this is rubbish and will do nothing to improve the overall safety performance of Indonesian aviation. There is no link between fleet size and safety, if this were the case then Merpati would be just a (bad) memory while Travira would be acknowledged as the standard for everyone else to aspire to. Whatever happened to the much vaunted ‘operator safety audits’ to raise standards and reverse the EU ban? Let’s wait for ‘Shell Management’ to enlighten us as to the true purpose of this somewhat bizarre ruling.

Massey058: Yes of course Travira have more than two aircraft but it appears the ruling applies to Part 121 operators whereas the bulk of Travira’s fleet is operated under Part 135.

Yep, one step forward, two steps back…….

[STOLFLYER]

To All,

This regulation was formulated in panic.
There is also a rule of 20 yearsold for first registration and limit of 35 years for planes.
Indonesia Aviation has grown by 26%+ (correct me if I am wrong) in 2009 while 99% of the World were heading South.
Yes, there are many opportunities in Aviation in Indonesia. Like Jakarta CGI is the main hub for domesitic transfer. This can be extend to a lot more with better Air Space control.
I remember when I was flying in Brisbane, Australia. My safety pilot told me, when there were more than a handful of planes in the air, ATC would get panic. While I was in California, during a busy day, I could be number four to land.
Number of Airplanes, Age of Airplanes are not related to safety. Maintenance. operation practice and the willingness of Management to commit to Safety are the keys.

Pilots training and attitude are also important. Once I was landing my slow C172 and Kona Airport, Hawaii. It was late at 2100 LT and the airport already turned uncontrolled. I declared my intension on downwind. A B737 pilot called in "We will slow down for you." That meant a lot to a C172 pilot.:O

[Captain-Crunch]

Hell Management! LOL!
Yeah, that's just what we need: more Oil Company Advice. It isn't enough that the Oil-Mafia destroyed the world-wide Aviation business with fuel extortion and racketeering, now they want to give us air safety advice. :ugh:

If we just would break up the oil monopolies into hundreds of regional companies, competition would set in again and fuel would become almost worthless. As it is now, tankers sit offshore unwilling to dock in Houston until oil demand drives prices up. :=

A truly Communist set of management techniques. Oh, and the solution to any accident from Hell Management is to harass and monitor flight crews just like they do their coolies in the slave oil fields. :rolleyes:

Thanks anyway for your oil input, but no thanks. If you didn't drain the lifeblood out of airlines with your greed, they might be able to afford new parts and better equipment and training. We don't want airlines operating like the Exxon Valdez without essential double-hulls (redundancy) just because some whip-cracker in management wants a personal bonus at the expense of safety and knows he can get away with blaming the crew.

Oil Industry Windfall Profits Tax Now!

And, this minimum fleet fiasco is going to endanger safety, imho. Many airlines have unairworthy airframes sitting around that they have parked for parts. They will be tempted to patch these wrecks back together to satisfy the minimum fleet number requirement.

CC

[floatboy]

I work for Travira Air and we have 32 aircraft, not 2.... :=

[PT6A]

Any news on if the aircraft ownership rule is going to go ahead?

Talk about a crazy idea...

PT6A

[Shamrock767]

Sad Day for and not a good way to start a year for Indonesian Aviation..today, 11th January..Ministry of transpotation just declare that Mandala Airlines will stop to operate starting tomorrow, 12th January because financial difficulty. Mandala will be given 45 days to "repair" themself. Mandala is a good and quite reliable private owned Airlines from Indonesia with fleet of mix Airbus A319/A320 aircraft. It has good service in both domestic and international routes. They served Indonesian Skies many years back started around 1970 and 1980..from L-188 Electra to Boeing 737-200adv/400 and finally Airbus A320 family. It's an Airlines that loved by many and it has a lot of loyal customer..

All of Mandala pilots is flying in another airlines right now so they still can produce flying hours and will be back to Mandala when the company is healthy enough to operate. The First Officer currently fliying Garuda Airbus A330 fleet and for the captain, I've heard some of them flying with Tiger Air and another airlines who operate Airbus A320 family/A330..

Let's hope for the best for Mandala Airlines so they can fly again in better shape than before..it's currently the oldest private owned Airlines in Indonesia that still exist until today..an Airline that is to good to die..I still can't believe my ears when I heard that news :(

Their 25 unit of Airbus A320 they ordered recently should arrive in a few months....hope for the best for Mandala Airlines.

[training wheels]

Their 25 unit of Airbus A320 they ordered recently should arrive in a few months....hope for the best for Mandala Airlines.

Sad news indeed. I have a soft spot for Mandala. I still remember when they operated Vickers Viscounts and Lockheed Elecrtras out of Soekarno -Hatta in the late 80's.

One of my training captains is an ex Mandala A320 pilot. He tells me they went from having 12 A320s when he joined to now only operating 4 (well, until today). Can't believe this as well, especially when the aviation industry is booming in Indonesia. There won't be any problems for their current flight crew to find jobs elsewhere; many airlines in Indonesia are still short of pilots, especially captains.

[Massey058]

By all accounts after the terrible overrun accident in Medan in 2005 they really turned themselves around.

Unfortunately safety costs and it must have been hard to compete with a juggernaut like Lion Air.

I sincerely hope they can restructure and carry on operating.

[Flying Cangcorang]

I read from another forum that, Mandala will be Tiger Airways Indonesia..
AFAIK, one of Tiger owenr is Indigo that also owned Mandala. It's like a joke! Like you get out from one problem, and move to one problem.. no problem solving..
:{:{:{

Mandala won't die... Love you Mandala..

[Flying Cangcorang]

today's rumor...

Blue Bird Group (Taxi Group) interested to invest at Mandala Airlines.. They had come to Mandala HQ to start negotiations.
Blue Bird group has very good reputation in Taxi service.. I think it's quite good for Blue Bird and Mandala..
Blue Bird has very good reputation in taxi service, compare to Mandala has very good in flight service.
more information about Blue Bird Group Blue Bird Group - Jakarta, Indonesia (http://www.bluebirdgroup.com)

No TR please.. :(:(

[harsh786techy]

Hi Folks,

Just wanted to know the names of any small charters and frieghters flying in Indonesia.

Will appreciate the information from any one..

flysafe.

[Harilal]

@ training wheels

Tried sending my resume to SUSI also i came across pt sky aviation through pilotcareercentre dot com, read the thread about SUSI in this forum, hope the situation has changed, if it has then it would be a perfect opportunity for low timers like me to apply and fly there, any further help would be appreciated, i hold about 250hrs and am seriously interested to fly to build my hours, money is secondary.

[southernskyz]

Harilal: Quote:
"i hold about 250hrs and am seriously interested to fly to build my hours, money is secondary".


Really now....if it's true as you say and you're serious about building up hours....and money is secondary?

Then you will should have no problems pulling out USD$60K from your bank account and getting a B738 rating,
to build up 1400 hours as an F/O on a new generation jet, instead of playing games in a C208.

[southernskyz]

Harilal,

Soorry, I mis-understood your previous post.

Since money is secondary, then you should feel really satisfied with
a few hundred dollars a month as a co-pilot.

The Captain might send a person home if they turn up to work with not
using any deodarant.
Then a person can say, "show me the money".

Go for it, if you want to work for 600 a month.
Why not :ok:

[Saint Jack]

Harilal: Your timing may be fortunate, I've heard that Susi Air has recently taken delivery of two factory-new Pilatus Porters, if this is correct then they may be looking for additional crews - go for it.

[Harilal]

@southernskyz.

$600 is a bit low but i heard that they provide for accommodation and food, money is secondary that does not mean i have to pay from my pocket to buy deodorant!! lol

@saintjack
Thanks a lot for the info much appreciated!!

Happy landings

Harry

Update : @saintjack after taking a closer look at the thread it seems that SUSI and me being an Indian does not go hand in hand or is it that they dont employ F/O's with indian licenses( in that case i have a foreign license!!!) ? Clarification of this would be appreciated, i hope the situation changes, i would really not mind the $600 + F/A!!!

[rampstalker]

I read this and chuckle, Mandla had a good record and I never felt at risk when sat in the hull. Size of fleet is not a measure of the operations safety, can never be. This will only push organisations to expand and over stretch an allready creaking operation no doubt. Some little man in an office thought that one up.

these boys have the wrong end of the stick again. Indo aviation is I am afraid very reluctant to listen to and follow well worn, tried advise, Oh well, I am sure untill a fatal takes place with a family member involved then they might sit up and take note.

still its better than the trains, phew, even I would not put the mother in law on one of them

[rampstalker]

The crew reports thats the smoke is a normal starting situation. Oh dear then better get onto CFM about our engines then. From all accounts they must be defective as none of them smoke on start up.

[planebored]

Oh STOLFLYER, if only this were true! This airline and the owner(s) are a business disgrace and should be shut down. You need to see what happens at Nusawiry where they are out of sight of other airlines to know what goes on. It is all "uang terimahkasih". The landing lights are all installed only for Susi. New windsocks all the time only for Susi. And most important, unlimited use of the runway and terminal and safety facilities only for Susi. Circuit training is constant and a discussion of that and how it is fraught with safety and DGCA violations along with the campaign to stop it due to noise is elsewhere on this site.

But you have to reali\ze that since she started ripping off fishermen in Pangandaran and Batu Karas, Susi has considered herself above the rest despite all the humble beginnings tales in the Indonesian press: blogs, Femina, etc. Her husband being minor nobility is automatically above the law anyway and in Indonesia, European nobility are treated with kid gloves, not what you'd expect. The DepHak is so cowardly about Susi: the DirJen Imigrasi has told the KanIm for Ciamis which covers Pangandaran to stay "hands off" Susi pilots. SO if you're a young white male in the Pangandaran area, you can get away with anything and Auntie Susi will buy you out of trouble. But don't quit Susi and work for another company. There's a NZ pilot who was di-fitnah by Susi (his repotation damaged). And another poor NZ guy who died in hospital in Jakarta, no attention from the company.

Just ask Pak Dede DirJen Imigrasi, he used to be KaKanIm Tasikmalaya. He was forced to leave Susi people alone. For detail on abuse at Nusawiru, the fat guy with the little radio mic tacked to his chest, Hendra Gunawan is the one to ask... if he's talking. Cijulang residents have seen him get envelopes from Susi right on the apron - not the one she wears in the kitchen either...

planebored with susi air

[aseanaero]

Rampstalker , we have a lot of airport mice, cockroaches and termites , when they aren't eating aircraft spare parts (how else can spare parts disappear overnight) they occassionally sleep inside the cowls of CFM56 engines , so smoke is normal as they get sucked , minced and burned in the engine.

[aseanaero]

We just purchased 5 non flying helicopters to break up for spares , in spite of assurances that all spares are in the warehouse 2 shipsets of avionics and instruments never turned up , bloody airport mice again ... it's impossible they were stolen as the parts are in a warehouse under armed patrol hmmm

[rampstalker]

Ive just been surfong the net about unsafe operations in Indonesia. Big surprise is the fact that the flag carrier Garuda gets much mention. Ive flown with them many times. Feel safe yah i do. Cabins look good the exterior looks good. Crew messages i can understand. Polite yah. Very. How come this Batavia gets no mention. Real scruffy cabins. Dirty exteriors. Half the time no APU. Cant say i understand the crew calls. Rude yah you bet.
Late is normal. If i cant get Garuda seats then i will wait. I feel safer anyway. Beter late than never getting there.

Any comments from front seaters with this mob

[rampstalker]

Could be rats or could be mice. From my walk over the ramp at terminal 1 @CGK i spoted a pair of rats that would have eaten any cat that came near. Yeah perhaps the same as theem that ate your parts. I think even an RB211 would have a job to injest these buggers let alone CFM56

[aseanaero]

Dear All,

I'm doing a quick feasability study for Oksibil but getting conflicting data

AVINDO airport chart advises TODA 940m TORA 900m ASDA 920m LDA 900m elevation 4,330ft but I heard that the runway has been extended to 1,200metres

The chart I have is 2010 , can anyway tell me the correct distances ?

Also I'm told the runway is a 3% slope ?

[Maverick 03]

Hello everyone

I would appreciate if anyone can shed some light on this LCC arm of Garuda. I heard they are having some openings for A-320 rated chaps.

[captjns]

Mixed stories and opinions regarding expats in Indoland.

[captplaystation]

rampstalker,

Had a colleague on contract to Garuda last year, he reckoned the operation was far from safe.
No SOP's, no CRM, disregard for weather hazards, crew rostering very poor with attendant risk of fatigue etc etc.
Think Lionairs record speaks for itself, and boats /trains/ buses seem to be just as "safe"
Sorry, but just doesn't seem to be a safe country for travel in any shape or form.

Maverick03, another thread on here suggests that unions have bullied Garuda into stopping contracting expats. Like India,as I am sure you know, when they run out of pilots again that will no doubt change back, but for the moment is the current state of affairs.

[Massey058]

I'm doing a quick feasability study for Oksibil but getting conflicting data

AVINDO airport chart advises TODA 940m TORA 900m ASDA 920m LDA 900m elevation 4,330ft but I heard that the runway has been extended to 1,200metres

The chart I have is 2010 , can anyway tell me the correct distances ?

Also I'm told the runway is a 3% slope ?

Still no concrete information out there as I'm pretty sure works are ongoing. But it is 4000 feet elevation and 1200m. Certainly not 3% slope though, It did have a 1% downslope to the west when it was shorter but can't be any greater than that now.

West is the preferred take-off path due terrain but wind doesn't always favour that option in the basin. The current Jepp coordinate for WAJO is actually incorrect by about 2 nm or so. It may have been corrected in recent updates but I haven't been there for a while.

Trigana are going in there quite a bit in the ATR 42 nowadays, Deraya took the BAe ATP in a while ago and Pelita regularly run the Dash 7 in there as you probably already know (length obviously not an issue for that wonderful beast).

[freightdriver]

Garuda and its low cost wing operate on a very strick co. procedure + all Boeing manuals (FCOM/FCTM) rostering are well regulated min 8 days off guaranteed. min rest hour required which is 15 hrs, well above the min 9 hrs required by the local regs. so i dunno what your friend was talking about.:confused:

i know for a fact that the Low cost wing is seeking experienced A320 crews, pm me.....


take care you all!;)

[captplaystation]

Did you actually work for them ? he did, unfortunately for him, & he had no axe to grind, he was just telling it like it is, by way of warning to anyone taken in by the "strict company /Boeing procedures, nice rostering Bla Bla Bla"
Talking the talk is one thing, walking the walk ,as far as he led me to believe, didn't follow suit.
I have no horse in this race, but listened to his analysis of his time there, & most assuredly crossed it off my "list of things to do".
Haven't heard too many expat pilots who have been actually employed there rushing to their defence :hmm:

[brasmelzuit]

I worked for Garuda for one year. My only complaint was people smoke everywhere at work. Nothin' about breaking any regulation. Nice hotel during stop over, cheap food..
They didn't extend my contract? Fine by me...I could easily grab another one elsewhere in asia