EMS Saudi Arabia [Archive]

Tq Monster

10th Dec 2009, 12:11

Why on earth did they choose the MD902 for their EMS aircraft? Surely with MD's recent spares scarcity and problems it would make anybody think twice about basing an EMS service on an aircraft that may not be reliable. Let alone having your whole fleet as one type.

It concerns me that if a serious fault is found with the 902 fleet most of the Air Ambulance aircraft in the UK will be grounded leaving great tracks of England with very limited coverage.

I'm reminded of a saying that goes "Never fly the 'A' model of anything"

If it is about money then I suggest we all start hoarding petrol.

N.B Sorry if I rambled a bit but it's after lunch and it's warm in the office :)

mfriskel

10th Dec 2009, 13:27

Who said it would be 100% MD902?
I am sure the Explorer was picked initially for it's demonstrated ability and reliability in the hostile environment of the Middle East. It has a good cabin size with little obstruction and allows full body access, has great performance and is not limited to lower than useful weights in the summer months, and has shown great reliability.
The acft has a small foot-print and generates a relatively low amount of rotorwash which is invaluable in some of the places called to go to in that environment. You do not have to download fuel to remain at usefull HEMS weights in the summer. The lack of tail rotor and very high main rotor are ideal for HEMS scene work.
It is unfortunate that MD did not stop their turn-around in 2007/2008, as it appears to have turned completely around and now resembles the MD of 2004/2005. Without parts suppport, no matter how reliable the Explorer is, it still becomes a paperweight with the first AOG. With consitant support it could have been a world leader in class, as long as you don't need extended fuel range.

helihog

10th Dec 2009, 14:40

Check your PM

WTEngel

10th Dec 2009, 22:03

I would have to agree with all of the points friskal made about why to choose the MD Explorer.

For any pilots interested, the website is EMS Saudi Arabia (http://www.emssaudiarabia.com). Further employment info is there, although the info is primarily for medical personnel, they do have an application portion for pilots and mechanics I do believe.

Anyone on here currently in the recruitment process?

ppheli

13th Dec 2009, 06:48

There's an advert for pilots here (http://www.findapilot.com/Job-Pilot-2104-Experienced-MD902-HEMS-Pilots.html?&offset=2) to start 1st Jan

Flaxton Flyer

13th Dec 2009, 09:14

TQ MONSTER -

"It concerns me that if a serious fault is found with the 902 fleet most of the Air Ambulance aircraft in the UK will be grounded leaving great tracks of England with very limited coverage"

Not so. As AA operations in the UK use more EC135s that 902s, perhaps you should be more concerned about a serious fault with them?

"I'm reminded of a saying that goes "Never fly the 'A' model of anything"

Who is flying an "A" model? The "A" model of the Explorer was the MD900. the "B" model was the MD902 with P+W 206 engines. The current ("C") model is the MD902 with P+W 207 engines.

PANews

21st Dec 2009, 16:22

It looks as if the new service has had its launch ceremony...

Red Crescent’s air ambulance service launched (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=129971&d=21&m=12&y=2009)

... but I guess that the ceremony does not necessarily mean there is a service!:rolleyes:

molen

23rd Dec 2009, 16:00

The press report mentions 3 helicopters are already in service in Riyadh province.

Have all the former United Aviation MD Explorers been transferred ?

Which MD Explorers are now operating with the SRCA ?

mfriskel

23rd Dec 2009, 16:14

UA has only received 1 Explorer so far. I guess that would mean that all of UA's Explorers are on duty in KSA.

vortexadminman

23rd Dec 2009, 21:45

God it never stops does it? MD902 vs EC135 fans. Always a bit of slagging here and a bit of rumour (heard in their own non biased/ PC friendly crew room) there. I know this is a rumour network of course but just pleeeeeeeeeease can we admit that the MD 902 and the EC135 are BOTH fecking good HEMS( EMS) machines and let the people ( paramedics and doctors and the people who work with them and pay the bills for them ) sort out which one they prefer. This thread was about a new Air Ambulance OP starting up and it has already slid down to why that AC ? why not this one? which is probably posted by the person who is type rated and current on it of course !!!!
Yes I know all of us here are pilots and put in our two pence worth of advise here and there, and 99% of it is good stuff learnt from people who had a " I learn t from that " situation but please stop the my machine is the dogs nob and your is cats wee......... it gets tedious. Chances are you will have change your point of view sharpish if you contract gets cancelled!!!

DeltaNg

23rd Dec 2009, 22:01

well I think the bolkow is the dogs nob and everybody should be updgrading..:}

Ned-Air2Air

24th Dec 2009, 01:58

First United Aviation 902 is in country, was only in Kuwait for matter of weeks, before heading off deeper into the sandpit.

It would have been there sooner had MD delivered ON TIME :ugh::ugh: It was supposed to be delivered straight after Heli Expo in Feb but they finally got it around November time frame, gotta love MD NOT. :mad:

As soon as second one gets delivered to Kuwait it will get turned around and head to Saudi as well. United have the contract to supply all the helos and I know they are looking for some more 902s if anyone knows of any.

Ned

STVA

24th Dec 2009, 12:42

Ned
you seem to be misinformed as only two MD902,s are to be supplied by Un ited the other Aircraft are all supplied by Action Aviation :ok:Three are currently in country being used for ops and Med training one further on the way next week ;)

Ian Corrigible

24th Dec 2009, 13:17

Interesting...is Action Aviation still an MD dealer? Rotorhub seemed to suggest last year that the dealership agreement announced in November '06 had been deep-sixed.

Action Aviation no longer listed as distributors for MD Helicopters in Middle East, India and Scandinavia
Rotorhub 16 June 2008

The Rotorhub team have noted that Action Aviation are no longer listed on MD Helicopters' website as their distributor for the Middle East, the Indian Sub Continent and Scandinavia., less than twenty months after the manufacturer announced an eight-year contract with Action covering those territories.

We understand from industry sources that the two organisations are in dispute after MD significantly increased the price of all their products and reduced the Distributor commission structure without notice. This has obviously affected all MD Agents and Distributors worldwide, and follows Robinson's adjustment of their distributor discount as well.

I/C

Ned-Air2Air

24th Dec 2009, 15:49

STVA - When I was chatting with Osama Ghazal from United that was what I was led to believe. :confused:

I know Hamish had other helos there but thought they had come via United, obviously not.

Cheers

Ned

imuney

18th Jan 2010, 23:37

Does anybody have more details about rotation, compensation, etc......?

jiggyman524

20th Jan 2010, 19:33

Anyone know what the salary might be for a pilot with 5 yrs of EMS experience , 4000+ hrs and ATPL ( H ) .... Along with benefits .....??

Anyone ?

HyFlyer

8th Feb 2010, 22:47

I think you need to send a message, with CV, to [email protected]

and then you can find out exactly what the deal is being offered.

Currently required:

FAA, IR HEMS experienced pilots.
Paramedics
MD902 and/or FAA A&P mechanics
SMS managers / Safety officers
Stores / Logistics staff
Quality manager - HEMS organisation experience
HR manager (ME experienced)
Travel office professional

The activity is Saudi based on 45-60 day rotations or resident.

The team there are out saving lives now on a regular basis.....and the program will be extended countrywide, from the initial Riyadh start up activity.

Other aircraft types (rotary and fixed) will be added to the mix as this grows.

jiggyman524

15th Feb 2010, 17:05

have heard nothing from them yet ... been 3 weeks now .. Anyone know the process ?

helihog

16th Feb 2010, 17:39

Applied about 2 months ago and yet nothing !!!!!!!!!!!

Kulwin Park

16th Feb 2010, 20:11

Don't know what MD902 is like as EMS machine ...
Would have thought EC135 too smal for that role ...
Would have thought they may have gone a Dauphin or something that has a bit more of a multi-role capability?

Kulwin Park

16th Feb 2010, 20:14

Actually just clicked on their link ... shows a background picture of a blue/red/white BK117 ... is that what they previously used?

Ian Corrigible

16th Feb 2010, 20:50

That, my young Padawan, is a BO105... :E

I/C

HU500D

11th Apr 2010, 14:17

That's all folks, the program is over.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

STVA

11th Apr 2010, 15:27

Very sad as the operation was begining to get going:uhoh:

Check 6

11th Apr 2010, 15:32

HU500D, that is not accurate. Stick to the facts! := This program is mandated by HRH King Abdullah and it will continue in one form or another.

mfriskel

11th Apr 2010, 16:04

Is there a story here?

mfriskel

11th Apr 2010, 17:03

"Kulwin Park (http://www.pprune.org/members/134705-kulwin-park) Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 106

Don't know what MD902 is like as EMS machine ...
Would have thought EC135 too smal for that role ...
Would have thought they may have gone a Dauphin or something that has a bit more of a multi-role capability?"

KP: I don't think multi-role is needed for this dedicated HEMS operation. The MD902 is actually a good multi-role machine but long distance legs she does not have. What it does have is great performance for the Middle East environment, low rotorwash for the off heliport environment, low maint required in the Middle East environment, multi-patient capability and acceptable range with a 100 mile out and back range when proprely configured for HEMS and fully crewed. The only real problem with the 902 is the supplier.
Bigger ships have some advantages and many dis-advantages in the Middle East, but the patients have to be in a favorable place for a bigger machine to land. I think a fleet of light twins (MD902) for local ops and a sensable fixed wing (PC-12 or maybe even a light jet) fleet for cross country transport would be a great mix in KSA.

HU500D

11th Apr 2010, 17:28

The problem is not the MD902, the real problem at KSA is that AA and SRCA didn’t pay the salaries of the dispatchers, paramedics, pilots and mechanics from March until everybody had enough of the lies and left KSA the first week of April.

Ian Corrigible

12th Apr 2010, 20:51

Copied over from The Dark Side:

All,
Just a quick note to tell you all at one time--the gig is over! Action Aviation (UK company based out of Dubai FTZ) reneged on payroll for March, owes lots of money. The Saudi Red Crescent Authority (SRCA) is not going to pay Action not one red riyal more.

If you are waiting for a job with them, my advice, do not turn down any real job offers. You will be waiting a long time. Also, do not believe any of the BS the Chairman or his lackeys are spewing about they are owed money and all will be well in a couple of weeks. IT WILL NOT BE!

The Prince over the SRCA has issued a formal letter stating that Action will not be paid anymore money and as far as they are concerned Action Aviation broke/violated the contract.

2 MD 902s were evacuated out of Saudi prior to the whole thing falling apart. 2 remain in country. There were never more than 4 of which 3 were flyable at any time. The company tried some BS by putting a p.o.s. SJ30 on the contract along with an Airbus-318...all fell through.

Apparently, the SRCA is pursuing their own ops with old B412s and a couple of AW139s. I am sure they will be hiring in the future. I will just caution you to be extremely careful! It is not what it seems on the surface...SRCA has a history of changing contracts after you are in country. Most will leave, the hard-up will remain and sign on for a future of getting screwed.

I/C

JAA/FAA Pilot

12th Apr 2010, 23:55

...but you just confirmed what no one believed...or did not wanted to hear. :eek:

Navy83blue

13th Apr 2010, 08:12

Ian,

Where did you hear about the Princes' letter? Have you seen the letter or is it just rumor?

Ian Corrigible

13th Apr 2010, 13:05

Navy83blue - Sorry, no personal involvement in this one, I was just copying a post over from another forum (JH).

I/C

Pilot135pd

13th Apr 2010, 15:49

Here's the other side of the story also from where you brought the first post :

Author: Pablo Date: 4/13/2010 9:43:36 AM

Wow this is just excellent I would love to know where you get you information from. This is Pablo and I am really appauled at the lack of information which you have. I furthermore say to you that if you are able to fix this wih SRCA then please by all means. SRCA is in a dispute and that is handled by attorney's that are experts.
You stated this SRCA has a history of changing contracts...Maybe pay attention to that statment.
Again this is Pablo and I can be reached at [email protected]. PS one of the lackeys you may be referring too.

flyclt

13th Apr 2010, 18:18

FYI, Pablo is a dispatcher that has only been with the company about a month and a half. Not sure how he became the expert on stuff that occurred prior to his arrival. But then again, he is still there hoping for pay! lol:=

Also, from what I can tell, the copied post is fairly accurate. AA has ceased ops and employees have not been paid for the month of March. And, I have copies of the Prince's Letter both in Arabic and translated English..it does exist!:eek:

HEMS driver

13th Apr 2010, 18:36

Pablo, are you the same "pilot135pd" from Just Helicopters.com?

mutt

13th Apr 2010, 18:46

I was wondering why I hadn't heard their callsign in the last couple of weeks... now it makes sense, its a pity as its a service this country badly needs.

Best of luck to all.

Mutt

Navy83blue

13th Apr 2010, 22:00

This just gets better and better.
Flyclt - I'm really interested in seeing this letter, could you send it to me please via private email. Also, how did you get them?

flyclt

13th Apr 2010, 22:53

I worked for AA until a week ago. I received the letters via email from the Saudi Red Crescent. Sorry, I will not forward them until AA shows they are not willing to pay what is owed. Then all bets are off!:E

Pilot135pd

14th Apr 2010, 02:36

No no

Jollygreenfe

15th Apr 2010, 02:31

Yep I have them in both languages also. Really sucks having an empty wallet at tax time :sad:

Just to show you how small the world is, I over heard some folks talking at the Air Methods booth today at the Quad A show about AA and it was NOT in a good light...

Cheers!
Jolly

Navy83blue

15th Apr 2010, 20:33

What a shocker that Air Methods or any company would say something not so nice about another company. Did the person have specifics about AA or was it "a friend of mine's 2nd cousin's friend overheard someone" type of info? Lets be real....some of air methods own employees don't talk nice about Air Methods so are comments by another company really relevant without facts.

Notar fan

15th Apr 2010, 22:26

Overall its a shame that the program didn't work out..... It would have proven the capability of the 902 in that environment, which would have been a plus for the product.
From past experience, the ME is a difficult place to operate politically. You are paid, what they want and when they want, regardless of prior agreements in place.

mfriskel

16th Apr 2010, 00:57

902 has been operating great since 2007 as HEMS in Qatar. Pretty hostile desert environment there with a good amount of heat. 900 w/207E has been on VVIP duty in UAE since 2006. The ship works great in the desert and has been into some really abrasive areas regularly. Don't forget the shipis built in the Arizona desert and regularly sees over 110 F and DAs of 8000 or more. Mexico has had a 900 since the early days operating in Mexico city at 12,000 DAs for years and several more operating off-shore with their Navy armed with rockets and GAU-19. The ship has no problems in hostile and harsh environments.

9Aplus

16th Apr 2010, 08:48

Like to invite AA people to do some charity work here in 9A
we do need HEMS too. Our state do not like to pay either.... :}

HU500D

17th Apr 2010, 16:06

HU500D, that is not accurate. Stick to the facts! := This program is mandated by HRH King Abdullah and it will continue in one form or another.

Hello Check 6, have you been reading all the post related to the EMS in Saudi, do you need more facts?, because if you need more there are alot more to surface if AA (HH) doesn't pay the salaries of the employees soon.:yuk::yuk::yuk:

spinwing

27th Apr 2010, 02:05

Mmmmm ...

And where are the AW139's coming from pray tell?

:E

Kulwin Park

27th Apr 2010, 11:29

Good reply "Mfriskel" ... would like to see an MD902 one day ... MMmnnnnn

luisf4

27th Apr 2010, 15:29

you got the picture totally right!!!!!!!! have you been in dubai before????
i was there for two years and they changed my contract and most of us left indeed!!!
no wonder why there is allways open positions in the midle east.....
because the lie to people keep that in mind!!!!!!!
do not thrust arabs, pakistanis, or indians because they will screw you up if they can .... in most cases .... there are also good people in there i know
but most of them act that way. its just their culture ....

Epiphany

28th Apr 2010, 08:58

Wise words Luis and no doubt gained from bitter experience. I am often amazed at the posts from people heading to the ME who obviously think that what they have been told is how it is going to be. Do your research - Pprune is a good place to do that and learn from others experience.

luisf4

28th Apr 2010, 17:19

this is the best place to "learn" the scenario around the world ......
when there is one person saying bad stuff about something it maybe a wine person... when there is a whole thread .. keep your eyes wide open something is wrong.... no suprise to anyone i guess... besides pprune is famous world wide .. and u can find anything u like to know here ..
fly safe everyone!!!

mutt

29th Apr 2010, 00:48

HU500D, do you know if AA were paid their dues and are refusing to pay their employees, or are AA awaiting payment from SRCA?

Its a pity that this operation failed, it was fun watching them and listening to them.....

Mutt

flyclt

10th May 2010, 12:05

AA was not being paid by the SRCA (Saudi Red Crescent Authority), so they simply stopped paying employees and the employees began leaving enmasse. The chairman of AA, has still not paid the employees what is owed, even though money is there for it. The employees were contracted by AA, not the SRCA, so Action is on the hook for the payments. Some of the guys are looking at what legal options are available.:ugh:Problem is, it appears once again the only winners will be the scumbag lawyers.

I personally wanted the program to succeed. They certainly needed the service, we flew over 60 flights in the last month. 95% were car wrecks...go figure! And we were finally making headway with ATC and getting Government cooperation to allow a VFR emergency flight.

HU500D

12th May 2010, 03:14

Abu Dhabi Aviation to supply air ambulances to Saudi Red Crescent Authority
Abu Dhabi Aviation, the largest commercial helicopter and fixed wing aircraft operator in the Middle East will provide the Saudi Red Crescent Authority with six helicopters which will serve as air ambulances based on an agreement signed at Abu Dhabi Aviation's offices in the UAE's capital.
The agreement was signed by Nader Ahmed Al Hammadi, Managing Director, Abu Dhabi Aviation and Dr. Rasheed Al Eid, CEO, Saudi Red Crescent Authority in the presence of HE Sheikh Hamdan Bin Mubarak Al Nahyan, Vice Chairman, Abu Dhabi Aviation and HH Prince Faisal Bin Abd Allah Bin Abd El Aziz, Chairman of the Saudi Red Crescent Authority respectively.
Also present were Ambassador Ibrahim Bin Saad Ibrahim, Ambassador of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in United Arab Emirates, Mohammed Ibrahim Al Mazroui, General Manager and Ahmed Al Khouri, Air Brigadier & Adviser to the President of the board of directors from Abu Dhabi Aviation. Present from Saudi Red Crescent Authority were Captain Mohamed Al Ghaneem, manager of the Aviation team and Majid Al Ghadeer, Communications Manager and other high ranking officials from both parties.
"This agreement will further strengthens commercial relations between the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. We're focusing on achieving significant growth in key markets such as Saudi Arabia as part of our expansion strategy. We feel at this point in time we are ready to meet the needs of the Red Crescent Authority and this agreement represents an important milestone in our global expansion strategy. There is so much more that we can provide to the Saudi Red Crescent Authority and this initial agreement is pivotal to our ongoing relationship to work even closer with them in the future," said Prince Faial.
For his part, Prince Faisal expressed confidence in Abu Dhabi Aviation's capability to provide the kind of services needed to meet the requirements of Saudi Arabia's Emergency Medical Services programme.
"Abu Dhabi Aviation's excellent market reputation provided us with the trust and confidence we needed to seek their services. Undoubtedly, this agreement will prove that the Middle East aviation sector is capable of delivering world-class air ambulances for emergency medical service purposes across the region," said Prince Faial.
The agreement is for Abu Dhabi Aviation to provide six helicopters, comprising four Bell 412 and two AW 139 as Air Ambulances providing support to the Saudi Emergency Medical Services programme. The helicopters which will be fully crewed are to be stationed at the two main bases of Saudi Arabia - Jeddah and Riyadh. In addition to the 24/7 coverage in the main bases the helicopters and crew will be positioned in Mecca during the Ramadan and Hajj periods this year. The contract period for one year will commence with immediate effect.

spinwing

12th May 2010, 05:09

Mmmmm ...

....... The contract period for one year will commence with immediate effect. ..........

Oh joy! .... just in time for 'Summer' AND Ramadan! :eek:

Sandpit Sid

12th May 2010, 10:21

I hope that all of the right palms have been crossed with silver or it may go the way of Action's operation.

spinwing

12th May 2010, 12:52

Mmmm ........

.. It may go the way of Action's operation...........

Really doubt that the Saudi Red Crescent will screw with a UAE Govt. owned (?) company ....

Notar fan

13th May 2010, 16:52

From the outside it looks as thats curtains for AA. Abu Dhabi Aviation seem to be supplying the 6 aircraft (3 in Riyadh, and 3 in Jeddah) that AA failed to do.

Spinwing, as far as I know the SRCA are a government entity..... I don't think they care who the screw, or screw with.

mutt

2nd Jun 2010, 10:02

I noticed their new A319 today on the Saudi register, so its not as if money is an issue.......

Mutt

HU500D

2nd Jun 2010, 22:42

Until today Action Aviation (HH) has not paid his employees, it is sad that people like that are allowed to be in this business.:=:=

STVA

24th Jul 2010, 10:34

For all the people who keep asking the AA/SRCA operation has come to an end TWO aircraft where flown to Bahrain to have operational radios installed of which the SRCA where aware of these aircraft are still there to the best of my knowledge TWO aircraft are in KSA these where the operational aircraft doing the EMS tasking they where withdrawn as no funds where available to continue the operation and the onsite staff began to leave there is no further requirement to recruit staff for this operation :uhoh: I now believe almost all the guys have now found other work and wish them all the best:ok:

HU500D

24th Jul 2010, 22:40

Until today Action Aviation (HH) has not paid his employees, he thinks that because SRCA has not paid him (I don't believe this), he has no obligation to pay to his employees, it is sad that people like that are allowed to be in this business.:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

HEMS driver

24th Jul 2010, 22:51

HU500D, do you mean "as of today" vs. "until today?"

Thank you.

autosync

26th Jul 2010, 02:24

So the SRCA awarded a contract in December 09 ( MD 900 Explorer MSN 900-00127 (http://www.aeroboek.nl/900/00127.HTM) )but can't afford to pay for it after a couple of months so it closes the whole operation down. Than a few months later it awards the same contract to ADA, using bigger much more expensive machines.... ( Red Crescent to get six air ambulances - Arab News (http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article54771.ece) ) Am I missing something or is there a smell of massive corruption here?

STVA

26th Jul 2010, 03:09

Only the SRCA and AA will know the real story and then only the upper management of those organisations. As for the new contract that is a different deal and time will tell if ADA get paid unfortunatly there is rather a lot of bad press on this and many other web sites I think anyone will find it difficult to recruit Pilots Engineers and medical crews as there is a big group of guys out there who where screwed by the system there. any one interested should think long and hard before commiting as things ie T&C,s political wills management etc:eek: change very quickly but may be good if you have a huge company behind you who will honour your contract whatever happens. :ok:

407TX

26th Jul 2010, 22:06

The only thing that I know is that Mr. HH of Action Aviation owls almost half a million dollars of salaries to his former employees and he thinks that he should not pay them because he has a feud with the SRCA. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:
I think it’s about time that we use this forums to make sure that nobody else in this industry gets shafted by people like this, that hide behind lawyers to screw honest people that went over there to perform a job.:=:=:=:=:=:=

STVA

27th Jul 2010, 03:09

It is well know inside and outside of KSA that the SRCA do not pay their bills and are very good at changing contract terms of their own employees once in country a usefull bit of information that AA did not pass on to their employees nor did they pass on the details of local employment law:ooh: for which the SRCA where insisting upon for continued employment. They the SRCA did not pay so AA thought that was their reason not to pay their employees no contact has been made with any of them regarding any possibility of payment. there has been no communication from the whatso ever.:uhoh:

Goose512

27th Jul 2010, 12:49

Just to make sure it is clear, if you are considering working for Action Aviation, please consider that over 70 employees where not paid final salary or expenses. This is current and to date. The company is a scam as is still lurking for a quick buck. They have money to show off their one aircraft but not to pay employees.

Not bad for my first post, that is how frustrated this company made me!

FlyingWay

5th Aug 2010, 12:46

Saudi Red Crescent - SRCA
Based on Jeddah and Riyadh

Aircraft are helicopters so far type Bell 412EP & AW139
supplied by Abu Dhabi Aviation

The employees (Mechanic & Pilots) they are Abu Dhabi Aviation contractors, and there are many Saudi employees (Mechanic & Pilots and flight medic) hired by SRCA directly

Some of AW-139 / HZ-RC03 images
Agusta Westland Helicopter USA - Philadelphi

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-1.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-2.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-4.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-5.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-6.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-7.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-3.jpg

http://www.air.flyingway.com/airplane/hz-rc/hzrc03-8.jpg

spinwing

5th Aug 2010, 13:46

Mmm ....

And further to the above post ....

s-dUs8wLx2U

:ok:

Demented

5th Aug 2010, 13:56

Nice photos:ok:

told

5th Aug 2010, 22:26

:ugh: anyone knows ex A6 registration and/or serial number for HZ-RC03 and HZ-RC04 ?? Thanks a lot
Damiano

FlyingWay

6th Aug 2010, 00:18

you may find all AW139 in this page
ROTORSPOT - Complete Civil Rotorcraft Register of United Arab Emirates (http://www.rotorspot.nl/a6.htm)

A6-AWH serial number 41011
A6-AWL serial number 31153

Aircraft N141AW, Agusta Spa AW139 C/N 41011, Boeing 737-2M8 C/N 21955 (http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N141AW.html)
AgustaWestland AW139 Production List © by: Damiano GUALDONI (http://www.dgualdo.it/prod-ab139-03.htm)

told

7th Aug 2010, 12:42

So you can confirm that A6-AWH and A6-AWL are currently the two helicopters used in Saudi Arabia ??
A6-AWH as HZ-RC03
and
A6-AWL as HZ-RC04
Thanks for the link to my personal webpage (Damiano GUALDONI), but I was really looking for info in order to link the two previous regs to the new ones.
Thanks a lot
Damiano :eek:

HU500D

5th Oct 2010, 07:50

Does anybody got paid by Action Aviation or HH is still making excuses? I was told that he sold one of the 902’s????????

vfr440

5th Oct 2010, 14:25

Ba@@**rd, :mad: WTF's going on here? Where's his business registered? If in UK and one has a contract, that has to be Small Claims Court surely? This has a side-benfit at getting a CCJ against the Company, and a record which is publicly visible. :cool: If it were me I wouldn't shrink from sending a recorded-delivery mail giving 14 days for settlement - or SMC to be effected. It only costs £100 and you get that back if/when you are successful. Me, I've had enough of all this BS. If a contracted agreement is delinquent I send a letter saying that they might like to discuss this in court since I am a VERY small business (me) and I've got a family to earn for. :ok: What do you think, team? ~ VFR

mutt

21st Oct 2010, 15:42

Lovely pictures.......

Mutt

molen

21st Oct 2010, 16:19

Are they biting dust in Saudi Arabia ?

At least 4 units have been operating with the SRCA.

mfriskel

21st Oct 2010, 17:14

Old news. The company operating the Explorers has been out of service for many months. No fault of the aircraft by any means. Two of the acft have been stored outside of KSA and two were left in KSA to gather dust (or sand).

HEMS driver

3rd Nov 2010, 20:47

The SRCA is not providing visas for new ADA pilots to be assigned to the project and not paying ADA as agreed.

The SRCA has a reputation within the Magic Kingdom of not paying their bills.

Be careful out there.

Ian Corrigible

4th Nov 2010, 03:13

One of the ex-SRCA 902s on its way back home (?) last week, courtesy of Scramble (http://forum.scramble.nl).

http://213.148.236.86/navylynx/photo/041.jpg

I/C

spinwing

4th Nov 2010, 05:12

Mmmm ...

I'd be willing to bet the machine stuck on the Hospital H'pad in Riyadh or the machine decaying on the dispersal at Thumamah will not be going 'home' anytime soon ...

:E

...... The SRCA has a reputation within the Magic Kingdom of not paying their bills. ......

So very very true ....

Goose512

23rd Nov 2010, 07:37

Any updates on the program? Is ADA still having problems. I have heard funding rumors.

Kholiban

27th Nov 2010, 14:51

Hi Guys

In connection with recent job ad. in Saudi Arabia, I would like to ask those who know : Is FAA licence is "absolute MUST" to be considered for a job in Saudi Arabia ?

Thanks

STVA

27th Nov 2010, 17:22

FAA A&P is a requirement of GCAA Licence as is a work permit there is some very strict employment laws within the KSA,:eek: read all of the comments on this thread as there is a lot of mis-information out there the AA guys fell foul of this. BEST OF LUCK:\

spinwing

27th Nov 2010, 20:12

Mmmm ....

Subtle correction to the above post ....

Whilst FAA regulations (copied with some 'variations') are the basis for for licensing and Flight activities within the KSA ... 'Temporary Airman Certificates' can be issued to well qualified (not necessarily FAA licensed) Airman/Mechanics to allow flight operations on Saudi civilian registered aircraft.

It is necessary to take the GACA nominated exam in order obtain a permanent Saudi Airman Certificate (and yes it is based on the FAA exam syllabus ... with variations?). :ugh: :ugh:

:E

(I guess somebody has to be seen to be running the show?).

STVA

28th Nov 2010, 07:24

Spinwing
You are correct with your last statement but whilst AA/SRCA where in the process of obtaining approvals to operate a part 135 operation in the KSA it was made very clear that an FAA A&P was a pre requesite for issue of a GACA license and that no temporary certificates would be issued so the operation was operated temporarily under FAA part 91 but as the KSA do there own thing then anything is possible all the AA guys already where FAA A&P certificated issue of a GACA licence also required a KSA work permit, this was what the AA guys fell foul of ,information that was not passed on at the start of employment, it is what it is on the day they say it is in the KSA.

spinwing

28th Nov 2010, 09:49

Mmmm

STVA .... you are partially correct .... as far as the A&P requirement ... in order to operate a Part 135 operation ... the maintenance organisation MUST be an "Approved Maintenance Organisation" ... I understand 'AA' had some issues getting that approval hence the need to operate Part 91 only.

You are however VERY correct when you say the rules in KSA require decoding on a daily basis :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

:E

STVA

28th Nov 2010, 10:42

As you say a lot of decoding was required , AA problem was largely down to a lack of the infrustructure that was promised by the SRCA, as was "cost is no object" attitude but that proved to be the biggest object ,a lot of hard work was carried out by certain AA people that where there,:ugh::ugh: there was also a lot of dreamers:hmm: and the original SRCA management being removed did not help the situation,the originals had a more realistic view on what could be achieved, some fantastic plans where made and some impressive models of the infrustructure made which should all have been built by now.:ok:

spinwing

28th Nov 2010, 10:59

Mmmm ...

Dare I say ..... 'not a lot has changed' .... SRCA still has its moments ... their view of how it CAN be done is still at odds with how it SHOULD be done := ....

There are plenty of patients but very little patience so to speak :eek:

Only time will tell ......

aclark79

28th Nov 2010, 14:54

yL_MPT59pD0

At least the video looks great!

mikelimapapa

29th Nov 2010, 10:40

what a load of bull****, its not about saving lives, its all about looking good :yuk::yuk::yuk:

griffothefog

29th Nov 2010, 15:14

If.... you have wasta :{

HEMS driver

27th Sep 2011, 13:10

AA still hasn't paid the dozens of staff members who worked on this project.

spinwing

27th Sep 2011, 21:33

Mmmm ...

And most likely SRCA have not paid them ... we'll never know the real truth ??

:confused:

HEMS driver

27th Sep 2011, 21:58

Probably true, but the hardworking subcontractors had contracts with AA, not the SRCA. AA is obligated to pay their bills.

Rigidhead

28th Sep 2011, 01:52

Paint them black, put curtains in the windows, and call them hearses.
There will unlikely be any lives saved if recent history is observed.
Very sad actually, with the amount of money floating around.

Rigidhead

Aerobot

24th Nov 2011, 19:59

I see that the most-recent post is not quite two months ago...are they still in service with ADA-supplied helicopters? Or did that fizzle like the AA/SRCA arrangement?

aviation2

25th Nov 2011, 07:08

I have watched the SRCA trying to get EMS projects going for the last 5 years. First one they used a compamy from Turkey with no prior EMS service who crashed a BO 105 in Jeddah and killed a pilot and 2 paramedics. The next one was going OK with Action Aviation running a bunch of EMS helicopters for them and saving many lives on the roads of Saudi. Then the SRCA threw out their own top management who knew what they were doing in EMS and apponted their head of training to run everything despite him having zero prior knowledge of HEMS, then eventually the whole service shut down in 2010 due to unpaid bills by the SRCA. I have heard estimates like 150 companies and staff around the world currently owned money by SRCA and SRCA thinks no one can touch them in Saudi. This includes about 50 doctors who were recruited by SRCA these poor guys quit their jobs around teh world and turned up in Saudi and then SRCA had no money to pay them and SRCA just told them to leave again. Some still don’t have their old jobs back and this situation has ruined some of their lives.

Next the SRCA pulled in ADA to try to restart their EMS. But for financial reasons, they had to put in some less expensive old Bell 412SP's with 20,000 hours and employ some cheaper non-EMS pilots. Result, yes you guessed it, another accident in Dec 2010 outside Riyadh, where an SRCA B412 EMS helicopter landed on the edge of a Saudi road just over a small hill, and when a truck came over the top it went straight into the SRCA helicopter which still had rotors running, but nobody cordoning off the road. I have seen photographs and it was a real big mess with casualties. But this accident seems to have been kept as quiet as possible.

Many of the expat paramedics in Riyadh today are being treated very poorly by the SRCA with promised allowances completely ignored and poor housing. But once you have quit your old job and gone to Saudi you have few choices left and you just try to live with it and hope it all gets better sometime.

To answer the question above, there has been a lot of maintenance downtime of the old B412's and as of November 2011 there is generally just one helicopter operating in Riyadh and one in Jeddah, but yes they are still flying.

aclark79

25th Nov 2011, 07:26

ADA is still there flying in Riyadh and Jedah.

spinwing

25th Nov 2011, 07:43

Mmmmm .....

I have it on good authority that the job is still going on .... BUT they seem to be not doing too much flying ....

Crews are still pissed offfffffff .... paramedics VERY pissed off and high turnover will continue ....

Rumour of new 412EP's being purchased by ADA ... but are they going to Saudi ... who knows till they get there

Best rumour is that SRCA are very slow at paying their bills (how surprising??) and are stretching the ADA friendship (?) ...

Of course all the above rumours need to be confirmed as correct ....

:}

spinwing

25th Nov 2011, 20:32

Mmmm ....

aviation2 .... I'm afraid I have to partially agree with CVR ... by and large you are mixing stories to give an very untrue sitrep of what has gone on.

There was NEVER an ADA 412SP in Saudi (it was a "Classic" only sent as a short term aircraft and never used). All the other aircraft are 412 EPs or virtually new AW139s.

The 412 accident was as CVR states actually in the UAE and had NOTHING to do with ADA (or Saudi).

ALL of ADA's command pilots were VERY experienced and many of them had extensive EMS experience .... also the ADA SOP for the job was written by a group of very experienced EMS pilots which were headed up by an Ex US "EMS Pilot of the Year" ... and covered just about everything necessary for the task.

You are misguided about the maintenance issues they do not have that much to do with the age of the aircraft ... and a lot to do with the logistics of working in Saudi.

You are however mostly correct with your views of SRCA.

:=

mikelimapapa

25th Nov 2011, 21:05

aviation2 - it amazes me that someone with clearly no knowledge of the operation can post a load of bull**** like its fact

As CVR stated, all 6 machines that were originally brought over are still here and flying. A 139 in Riyadh, a 412 in Medina and 2 412s in Jeddah are being crewed 24/7 as we speak. The second 139 is waiting to have the medical kit reinstalled after it was used to ferry SRCA VIPs around for the Hajj. The other 412 is waiting on parts for the rotor brake, hardly a major mx issue as you suggest.

Yes, it is true that SRCA has had trouble retaining their expat medics, but this was solved by crewing the aircraft with Saudi doctors. Our lack of flying has nothing to do with aircraft serviceability or crew issues, it is due to the Red Crescent dispatch not utilizing the aircraft.

I was speaking with one of the Saudi doctors a couple days ago who just transferred from ground to air ambulance. He was telling us that all of the ground crews have been instructed not to call for the helicopter because of internal politics within the Red Crescent.

CVR

26th Nov 2011, 03:57

Aviation2 what a first post and what a load of CRAP,

The 412 accident which you refer to, was a UAE Military aircraft and happened in the UAE 3 years ago. There are 6 aircraft in Saudi, 2 139's and 4 Bell 412EP's. All aircraft are flying and there is very little down time apart from the normal checks/snags that any other operator would have. I cant speak for the medics, but most of the expats are still there, but most are coming to the end of there contracts and who knows if they will extend. Yes there are some unhappy people but no jobs perfect all of the time or is it?