Sorry you're a pax now

[fixinflyback]

Recently had the pleasure of travelling down to Lyneham to transit off on detachment in a herc. Going through the security gate six of us were asked to remove our aircrew knifes as we weren't entitled to wear them when travelling as passengers! Now I know the dangerous air cargo posters talk about knifes etc, but this was an aircrew knife not a machette or dagger!! Twenty odd years of flying and seems I'm not to be trusted with a piece of my flying clothing, talk about jobs worth. What do I see on the news a few weeks ago, the parachute regt arriving in Macedonia climbing down the steps of a VC 10 with SA80s to hand. Gobsmacked.

[Arkroyal]

Ahhh.... nothing changes.

Remember many years ago being told that I couldn't wear an issue Mae West in a herc as a pax because the CO2 bottle and miniflares were DAC.

Load ole bollox init.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Came back from Op Agricola and the RAFPs at Lyneham made me put my rifle thorugh the XRay machine; now what's all that about then?

[StopStart]

I paxxed up to Fairford a couple of years ago in a herc as I was going to spend the day on the static herc we'd parked there the day before.
Flight time: 7mins. Check in: 2hrs before. Knives removed from us......muppets... :rolleyes:

Arkroyal - why did you want to wear you LSJ while paxing? A little more faith required methinks. ;)

[Arkroyal]

Stopstart,

Sorry, should have been more specific. If I'd worn it that would be OK. Only DAC as carry on baggage!!!! :confused:

[fixinflyback]

To make matters worst, not only was my knife removed, but I found myself plus 60 odd colleagues travelling in the back of a herc again. Only a week before the (CASWO) 'Chief of Air Staff Warrant Officer' had told us the prime mover for OP Resinate was now the VC10! Where's those nice new shiny C17s when you need them! Busy doing airshows I guess :confused:

[Sumo664]

> Came back from Op Agricola and the RAFPs
> at Lyneham made me put my rifle thorugh
> the XRay machine; now what's all that
> about then?

When coming back thro' Split airport in mid 90s they used to do that to all the weapons bundles! What sort of mind does it take to insist on something like that?

[SET 18]

As a Herc mate,I can only sympathise greatly with everyone's sentiments so far.
Recently I was at Aldergrove to bring some troops home. They arrived from the province in a Chinook, deplaned (with baggage) and were promptly taken by the movements staff to complete a full check-in procedure!! I was incensed, as I feel that treating our troops in this way is not only pointless in the extreme, but it only serves to further degrade any positive opinions the standard grunt may have of the Herc ,or more generally RAF AT. They had just come off one RAF ac and could not be taken from the helicopter into another ac.
I know it sounds bitter, but I think it is just another indicator of how effective other trades (in this case the Movers and the RAFP) are at justifying, sustaining and even expanding their respective empires.
If we cannot get rid of these pointless procedures then I think we are all worse off. Would any mover or RAFP out there care to justify it?
I sit back to await a party line from someone.....

[Noddy Staltern]

Well if any of them had any brains they wouldn't be Movers or Police in the first place would they??

[Didntdoit]

Can't disagree with anything so far, apart from the bit about brains. Those that make those sort of comments aren't really worth smelling coffee for. To be honest, if some of you had 'brains', you wouldn't waste time starting new threads on stuff that's been done b4, and better. The arguments bemoaning the poor teamwork from 'support staffs' show a certain maturity - clearly, the 'firm' would run much better without them.

Back to the original topic, yep, let's bin it all, and the next time a mil pax hides something danagerous in their cabin luggage and it costs, them you can really have something worthwhile to beeaatch about.

Go on.

Go on, go on.

Go on, go on, go on.

Go on, go on, go on, go on.

Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on.

Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on.

:p

ps - yes, I did get out of the wrong side of bed today!! So yah boo sux!!! :p

[ 09 September 2001: Message edited by: Didntdoit ]

[Dan Winterland]

So what happens to a stick of paras. Does the loadie hand them their bayonets back as they jump out of the door?

Just wondering.

[Hengist Pod]

I once mistakenly checked in my flying suit as hand baggage on civ-air. When they inevitably found the knife I naturally aplogised and suggested that I could remove it and hand it to the senior member of the cabin crew to ensure I didn't go barmy and open a few beer bottles when on board. Gatwick staff said, "No, don't worry, you're military aircrew, we can let that pass!" We,ve got a lot to learn from civvies.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Once upon a time I flew RAF AT without being delayed by movers, without being delayed by RAFPs, without suffering ATC delays (my own forte), without ac unserviceability and actually arrived at my destination on time.

Didntdoit, does that make good reading?

TTFN, going back to my book of hideous slot times....... :p :p :p

[Night NVG Goggles]

Hengist Pod,
It is big bonus though when the civilian security staff at certain London airports understand the need for confidentiality and common sense, with regard to certain clothing in baggage of any sort! It is a pity that I have never seen it happen! Maybe one year they might get it right!

[jockspice]

Exact same thing happened to us going to and coming from Op Grapple from 92 to 95 ( and every other Op there till 845 left, come to think of it :p ) - aircrew knife on trop dpm and they made us take them off and stow them. Total waste of time (that could have better been used in the bar or at home) before we came back again via the same means and....you guessed it.....we took the knives off and had to stow them.
Right royal pain in the hoop! :(
They weren't bothered about the leathermans or gerber knives on our belts though! :D

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: jockspice ]

[Lafyar Cokov]

Tuesday's events put a slightly different light on this conversation don't you think???

[Didntdoit]

Nuff said.

Respect. :(

[Radhaz]

Not wanting to slight the problems with a few people willing to die in the name of terrorism, I don't see how it can be applied to military personnel, en masse. For example, if I really wanted to cause disruption, I'd either fly my own jet wherever I wanted to, or drop bombs from said jet. If I wanted to do over a Tristar, I'd do it when tanking (some say I do it often enough...) The same goes for our engineers, who have ample opportunity to sabotage jets on a daily basis.

On another topic....
Having recently returned from a GOOD det, the RAFP who checked our baggage was in a flying suit; Why? (all flying squad/flying pigs jokes already covered).

Talking of which, thanks to all 2 Gp personnel who managed to drag the 10 hour flight from Brize to Vegas out to 41 hours. Hope Calgary was worth it...

[Didntdoit]

Dearest Radhaz.

I really think you missed Larfyar's point. As it's Friday, I'll be nice.

May I refer you to my post of 9 Sep (ie, written before the events of 11 Sep). As it's now 14 Sep, (ie, after the events of 11 Sep), may I remind you of the lowest common denominator, of which, there are some that are clearly lower than others.

Yours,

In respect to others

DDI xx :confused:

[Sadam_Insane]

*********** *** ** I *** *** mainly ***** *** **** ******* witter on ***** ***** like a pathetic ***** girl* bitching **** **** ***** and ** **** ***** *** idiot* are ******** ** ** *** ******** ** *** *** your * ****** ****grace!:*

Couldn't have put it better myself, pal. You are banned as a waste of bandwidth...

[KENNYR]

Probably the only reason that they check your baggage and weapons and the like, is that you are returning from a country where you could have purchased alcohol at duty free prices or drugs or whatever.......it has nothing to do with weapons to use against the aircraft crew. Its all a huge, misguided joke as are all the security measures put in place at RAF bases world wide.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Is this thread still going:rolleyes:

Kenny customs are in place at Lyneham Bzn etc to sort out the sort of problems you allude to, Muppets and scuffers" are there to check for stuff they might be able to use in the respective crewrooms.

I am often handed "weapons of mass destruction" in the form of aircrew knives or gerbers etc by well intentioned movers or RafP only to re issue said items as soon as the doors are closed. For all those familiar with Albert there are more than enough "lethal wepons" available down the back in the form of tensioners, chains etc or even, god forbid, the other assorted dangerous air cargo we carry which is readily accesable to all and sundry:rolleyes:

There is no doubt that both the afore mentioned empires are in place for good reasons, the "df" alcohol is now kicking in, but the justification for fuc@ing about "our own" holds no water at all.:yuk:

Solution is for scuffers to do what they do best............gate guard and for muppets to do what they do best.................answers on a postcard:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[SASless]

Ah...Chaps it isn't just the military that does this....

Warri, Nigeria....Bristow operation for Texaco Oil Company....Pax finished sleeping through the video passenger briefing....having already been screened by security....as I led the herd towards our Bell 212....here comes the Security Wallah calling for me to stop....then with his Magnetic Wand....he completed the security screening of each passenger.....made them stand like a scrarecrow....legs apart...arms pointing at the horizon.....while he furiously scanned every inch of their body.....and completely ignoring the GPMG and Ammo in two of the guys' hands....or the SLR's and loaded magazines in the other nine sets of hands....Nigerian Navy crew headed to the rigs to put down the hostage taking on the rig. Where is the Kodak when you need one!!!

[ENG]

Dead heading on Herc out of Lyn during GW1 carrying crew 9mm's in one ammo box and 60 rounds in another ammo box.

RAFP ask me what was in the boxes, I told him, he X-rayed them and cleared me into the holding area. The 6 crews also in the Q had to do the same.

It was very, very funny. At least he let us keep our knives!

[Scud-U-Like]

Q. Who could change or relax the RAF's air transport security regulations if they wanted to?

A. The RAF hierarchy.

Q. What have the RAF hierarchy got in common?

A. They're almost all aircrew.

Go figure

[StopStart]

Scud - would that were the case.

We live in an airforce of little empires.
In this case it's the Movements and ATSY empires that are busily creating work for themselves.

:p

[The Gorilla]

This is a problem that we have had for a loonng time now.
The general concensus is that it is the movers fault. The RAFP blame the movers and the movers blame the RAFP. But loadies in the know tell me it's down to the movers.

So guess what?? I no longer carry an aircrew knife. Point Blank refuse to!!

Result = I no longer get stressed when some under paid empire builder demands my knife!!

Having said that I no longer get stressed about anything that goes on in the Billy Smarts circus that passes for an Air Farce!!

:D :O :D

[Scud-U-Like]

Come off it, StopStart. There's only one empire in the RAF and that's the aircrew empire. Nothing wrong with that. After all, we are an air force. Just don't try to blame the troops, when the rules they are told to enforce don't happen to suit you.

Gorilla

I imagine an underpaid empire builder has some self-esteem, whereas, someone who works for an organisation he regards as a joke, is just rather sad.

[StopStart]

:rolleyes:

Spare me. "Just don't blame the troops"......

"Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!"

Nobody's blaming the "troops" and for you to suggest I am is fairly disingenuous. My point was that "empires" have been created by the movers and the feds and that they are more than happy to lose sight of what is important in the defence of that empire. Yes, there might well be an aircrew empire, but from where I am sat it's a fairly powerless one these days. Fortunately, I'm fully trained to not really give a toss.

Anyway, I can see the headline forming in your mind now.....

"Arrogant aircrew fascist kicks humble SAC to death for daring to to bother him with Mover trivia."

Needed to remove that link SS. Definitely offensive and highly sensitive.

[Scud-U-Like]

StopStart

Lol - I never argue, I just elucidate ;)

[adrian mole]

ABIW/Gorilla/StopStart - Nice to see 'Team Lyneham' is working in harmony. Might I suggest that rather than listen to "Loadies in the know", "My best friend said" or "I heard from ..." that you actually go and talk to the Head Mover and Plod and ascertain who is making these rules. I would then love to see the truthful reply.

ABIW - Nice to see you continue to make waves. You hand back out the knives on take-off, I don't think so! What you do need to find out is what contraband/contentious items have been found in baggage both at UK and overseas bases of operations which made the hierarchy insist on the searches. I'm aware of items ranging from SARBE beacons, live mines, misc ammo and a live grenade. It's not the wannabee terrorist sat next to me I worry about on Crab Air but what's inside the souvenier hunters bags which may kill me. Seeing as you circimvent the system I wonder what you carry?

Fortunately most of the Truckies are still nice, reasonable people and if there is a problem go speak to someone.

[Mr C Hinecap]

As one of the belittled Movs family, I will put in my £0.02.

I am responsible for the PAX and the load of the ac and the presentation of that 'safe' load to the ac crew. If you are carrying something that might just go bang, spark, whoosh, corrode etc it is up to Movs to make that safe.

We just apply the rules provided.

Oh - and yes - I have seen some supposedly educated people carrying some really stupid & dangerous things on board. Sometimes a genuine mistake, but often a complete disregard for safety and a lack of understanding.

And no - carry your own fekkin bags! ;)

[BEagle]

I voss only obeyink orders.................



Not much of a defence for some of the alleged embug.gerances mentioned in this thread, I would suggest.

[StopStart]

Yes, okay we are all very bad people for questioning these rules.

I agree that there are indeed plenty of donkeys out there who will try and bring back various high explosive "souvenirs" in their bags and that, yes, these fools do pose a threat. So bags should be checked and dangerous items removed.

At the other end of the scale we have the examples given above. Aircrew knives on flying suits. Or the chap asked to put his rifle through a metal detector. Flexibility of thought might not go amiss here.

:rolleyes:

No-one has yet explained to me why a Herc crew, travelling from Lyneham to Fairford, a flight time of about 7 minutes max had to check in 2 hours before, watch the safety video and then hand in their aircrew knives.

I shall use the word "Jobsworth" to describe the DAMO that insisted we do all that.

PS. Pprune Pop - yes, fair point :O sorry.

[JohnB]

StopStart

Assume you are talking about the Fairford shuttle fir RIATs. I was in Day Pax at Lyneham taking the bookings those flights and liasing with the Ops Cpl who was arranging the flight.

As we understood it from Ops the landing time at Fairford was the critical thing - miss it and the flight wouldn't happen.
So we had planned on a 1 hour report. Yes 1 hour - so that when everyone turned up at the hour the pax desk would have a chance of checking you all off against the planned list and having a fighting chance of finishing off the trim, (Even 7 minute flights need a trim sheet) putting you all into the outbound lounge (safety video - does teh ALM not do saftery breifs on 7 minute flights?) and getting everyone out to the aircraft.

Why use the outbound lounge? Surprisingly enough you werent the only flights going off that day and it was the easiest way to ensure the right people got onto the aircraft.

So why did it change to a 2 hour check in....OC Police got to hear of the flight (not exactly a big secret as it was in orders). 'They are passengers so they need to be security checked'. He wouldn't comprise, everyone had to be checked or they couldnt fly - report time had to be increased to 2 hours to allow for this.

[Mad_Mark]

A Mole,

Might I suggest that rather than listen to "Loadies in the know", "My best friend said" or "I heard from ..."

However later YOU say...

I'm aware of items ranging from...

How about taking some of your own advice and tell us what YOU have actually SEEN, rather than what you are AWARE of :confused:

Double standards old boy.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[adrian mole]

MM - Fair point. During a stint at Split in 1996 a young army Lt was caught entering the departure lounge with an anti-personnel mine stuffed down the front of his trousers... I kid you not.

Just before Christmas at a Herc base in Wilts a man from a base on the Welsh borders was found to have a live 40mm grenade in his bags, another had a live hand grenade and a third a bandolier of 100rds of 5.56mm ammo, all arriving back from Kabul.

It is a laugh x-raying weapon bundles until you discover a unit tried to hide a soviet made weapon in with some British one's as camouflage.

Once again, please speak to the Customs woman on the base who will happily relate the tales or show you evidence.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Fair enough - some good examples of planks with contraband there.

You guys are right - some of the Flight Safety/boarding rules etc are pants!

Although - aircrew, without an ac to fly, with an aircrew knife?!? Recipe for disaster - they'll get bored and start trying to cut things!!:=

And as for Leathermen - I've seen a DOCTOR test the blade of his new one by running his finger down it! DOH!

You'd not want that at altitude!

Pass me another gobbly box.

PS - where DO those Sausage Rolls & London Crisps actually come from?! 3rd World? Former Soviet States??

[RoboAlbert]

Mr Hinecap are you mad?

How could anyone ever cut anything with an aircrew knife?
:confused:

[DummyRun]

police are police whether civ or mil, far easier to catch speeding motorists or aircrew paxing with knives than real criminals, as for muppets...... all I can ask is that all the 'customers' realize that it is as embarrassing for the crew as it is infuriating for the pax, however, don't complain here, go to the top of your cmd chains and tell them what really goes on,- muppets and scuffers, please don't trot out the old 'well the airforce is run by aircrew so it's all your fault' line, when was the last time 1SL, CGS, CAS etc were told to check-in 2 hrs before, had their bags searched and their nail clippers confiscated. If the aircrews worked to rule to the extent the 'support' staff do the AT fleet would grind to a halt within hours!, but rules is rules and I voz only carrying out orders, (sorry beags for pinching your line)

[Ralf Wiggum]

Sorry Beag's et al. Have to disagree, the Feds and Movers are following statute law. It is not them who write the regulations, merely enforce them. Statute law, as you are no doubt aware, is introduced by Parliament. Somewhat outranking our hierarchy.

Should PC Plod or SAC Jobsworth not do their job thoroughly, they could possibly find themselves with a serious offence thrown at them and worst case scenario, possibly a corporate manslaughter charge. That goes for the Captain and CO, so they're protecting their @rses too.

If you think you're above our nation's democratic system, please feel free to say so.

[Scud-U-Like]

Oh dear, DummyRun. Are you having a bad hair day?

Yes, there probably is room for a bit of flexibility on this matter. Perhaps their airships have more important things on their mind than asking the Government to change the air transport security rules. In any case, re-categorising and sub-categorising pax would probably cause more problems and bitching than it resolved.

Incidentally, the "I voz only obeying orders" line is overused, especially out of context. It refers to SS guards, who resorted to the plea, when charged with crimes against humanity. It's difficult to see any similarity between aircrew being temporarily deprived of their aircrew knives and civilians being gassed to death.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Oh how I giggle when I hear "them's the rules".

Ralf's second para is spot on as those at the coal face are only implementing the orders of those with no idea of the real world. To blithely state that this is somehow a state requirement is absolutely ludicrous.

As a couple of examples of how those in the "big seats" pay lip service to rules etc:-

There is a DCI in force that states the carriage of pax on Albert should only occur when there are "no other practicle means".......yet every flight going to Cyprus seems to have seats booked to it as a matter of course........and there is no other way to get there?

A look at IATA's, the civvy bible on the carriage of Dangerous goods, shows that putting people and bombs on aircraft, or a whole host of other things for that matter, is FORBIDDEN!, but we have produced the JSP335 to circumvent this, and rightly so as we are a military outfit, to enable us to get the job done.

Imagine a civvy carrier approving the carriage of 90 guys fully armed with bullets grenades etc.........I don't think so

So the supposition that because the civvies do it so must we is pants:yuk:

Nobody yet on here, myself included has questioned the validity of baggage checks to ensure DAC is not being carried however the thread was asking for an explanation on some of the more stupid rulings that seem to be in force.

JohnB's last para lays the blame firmly at the door of OC scuff's but draw your own conclusion.

Question

pax down the back of albert, on route to anywhere attempt to board with either aircrew knives or gerbers, flying to nowhere particulary dangerous, just been fed and probably going to sleep most of the way.

90 young men dowen the back of albert about to face battle for the first time, all armed to the teeth and ready to go, and one or two are, inevetably starting to feel uncertain about what may happen

who's allowed to board:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Scud-U-Like]

Giggle ye not, ABIW :)

I would suggest your analogy is a question of risk assessment.

Decamping troops, without weapons, from an ac into a combat zone, creates a greater risk to the troops' survivability than does allowing them to carry weapons on the ac.

Whereas, allowing 'ordinary' pax to carry weapons onto an ac, creates a risk and removes none.

[rolandpull]

Chaps oh chaps oh chaps.

Life isn't any more rational on the civvy side of the fence.
I recently was following through to air side a very senior captain and a BT engineer. The captain gets his leatherman taken off him and the BT engineer is allowed through with a feckin big toolbox full of screwdrivers, stanley knives et etc.

Zurich recently, I go thru the scanners, empty my worldly travelling essentials into the tray to be scanned and once through proceed to the shopping area to spend the last of my Swiss francs. What is the first shop I go into selling? Swiss army knives!!

I am an ex mover, I have been where you have been, and seen what you have seen, and been on the same smelly end of the stick as ......

Military air travel will always err on the side of caution when it comes to dealling with the 'Troops' cos at the end of the day, as in any 'Team' environment you try to accomodate the weakest link.

[8141]

Just been sent to somewhere hot and sandy, to have 17 hrs of the jobsworths at South C#*#ny. The muppets decided that my toenail clippers may well be a deadly weapon and removed them to ensure that I didn't attack the crew. Had them put with the sharps to be looked after by a grown adult and be reclaimed; managed to slip my Bick razors through undetected though, which was nice.

[Captain_Caos]

8141........I think you will actually find its the Law to have sharps removed when checking in........you should consider yourself lucky, at least you get them back at the other end. Some people are not so lucky. You may well call Movers jobsworths, but at the end of the day, they are only implementing what is seen as the correct procedure wether you agree with it or not! What would you say if you were sat next to some disturbed acnified Pongo teenager who decided to whip out his knife and stab you just because he had problems and thought it would get him out of going somewhere he didn't want to be? Unfortunately not everyone in the military has common sense, and I'm afraid the reality is that these are the people who have to be spoon fed by the so called jobsworths! As for 17 hours at South C****y, if you ain't happy about it and I know I wouldn't be then why don't you complain?????????:confused:

[BEagle]

Note how the inadequately-testiculated still hide behind 'them's the rules..........give it 'ere.......'

I was due to attend an anti-hijacking seminar once, so decided to dream up some weapons made from innocent items which would never have aroused the suspicion of the Sicherheitsdienst at the gate. Unfortunately the day job got in the way, so I didn't get to the seminar. But my point would have been that a determined terrorist will be able to threaten the cabin crew or passengers no matter how comprehensive and intrusive the efforts of the bottom-fondling failed wheelclampers playing at security checkers at most civil aerodromes. So flight crews must be trained in how to fight the threat aggressively - not just to lock themselves into the front whilst mayhem takes place in the back.

Not difficult - and no, I b£oody won't tell you what the weapons were made from................

[Captain_Caos]

Fight the threat aggresively??????????eh?:confused:

I bet all those future terrorists would be really scared at the thought of a loadie armed with a gobbly box..........maybe you could try stoning them to death with apples? :O And if flight crews are going to be tackling the terrorists then whose gonna fly the plane? :eek:

[BEagle]

By operating in the same way that El Al did all those years ago when the terrorist Leila Khaled was overpowered - and their aircraft did not then end up at Dawson's field with the other 3 hi-jacked airliners.......

I understand that the Boeing's pilot was ex-military.....

[JohnB]

From the 'Gateway' magazine foreword

"Looking out over a pan full of Boeing 747s, Antonovs and a variety of charter aircraft in addition to our own, one might be forgiven for thinking this was Heathrow rather thank Brize Norton! This has been one of the busiest periods Brize Norton has ever seen and my major task for this month is to say thank you all those people involved in making it happen. At the forefront have been our Movements staffs. I joined the shifts as they dealt with the second day of a 747-load of passengers being delayed for diplomatic clearance reasons. Standing at the check in desk, I was amazed at how rude passengers could be; how they abused their ranks to vent their frustrations at our men and women; and how they asked for things we could not provide. I was extremely impressed with the way our young and often inexperienced movers dealt with everyone with patience, politeness and a smile – and this was just one day of many. As aircraft went unserviceable or got delayed, loads had to be moved around, re-packed and sorted out, involving everyone working together in a very hard and time consuming task. A big thank you to all the movers – I don’t envy you your jobs!"

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Not written by a mover by any chance:p

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[vascodegama]

All I can say say is he must have witnessed the exception rather than the rule! I would say his view is in a v small minority.

[JohnB]

The foreward is not written by a Mover.

The Station Commander at Brize is a navigator.

[Biggus]

Yes, it was written in the station magazine for local consumption. He just scored lots of brownie points with his men, at least the movers, by siding against the common enemy - passengers! Even if most of the passengers were polite, he wouldn't haven't impressed anyone by saying so, so maybe he "exaggerated" a little for moral purposes? I don't know, I wasn't there. Good leadership skills maybe!?

[NIWorker]

OMG the aircrew are so hard done by they have to go through those terrible ATSy procedures just like the rest of the Military, Have you heard they even make civvies do it before getting on civvie flights....... shock horror!!!!!!

You people really do hold yourselves in high regard dont you :)

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Someone's got his finger on the pulse.........not:rolleyes:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Dr Falken]

We hold inept people in lower regard. :mad:

It was a Sqn detachment a few years back. Having arrived at Brize 2.5hrs before the departure time (Brize requires the full 2 hrs check-in), we formed orderly queues (being Brits - Olympic Queuing Champions) at the check-in desks. After the usual complaints to the aircrew who had exceeded their baggage weight limit with their flying kit, the queues were slow to clear. After 2.5 hrs, with 25 or so people not yet checked-in, the movements staff closed the desks because the flight was due to leave (and boy, were they wrong about that). Nice. It was not long before the irate folks still waiting demanded to see the movs offr, who, rightly, ordered the immediate re-opening of the desks. To me, that was not the rigid following of rules brought about by statute law, but stupidity in the name of obstruction.

BTW, the aircraft left several hours late, with no explanation. It did not land in the intended country, as BZN Ops had planned a route for which there was not enough fuel. The co-pilot had also been called into work 4 hrs late, and ran out of crew duty to get the self-loading cargo to its destination. And we were all allowed to experience 2hrs in 40 deg C heat in the cabin on the gorund before being allowed to disembark (thanks to the arrival airfield). I did however, manage to smuggle a small set of nail clippers in my hand-luggage, though.

That's one in the eye for Brize movers - I showed them. :ouch:

[sonicstomp]

fixinflyback -

Had exactly the same problems with AT when travelling to the Gulf & back for recent shindigs....

Despite pointing out to the VC10 LM that if I wanted to hijack his a/c I could just take down the fire-axe in the main cabin..it was to no avail...

:*

The problem with the new knife is that it won't open bottles of beer

:=

[Big Unit Specialist]

I was asked by a nice plod type to put a doc box on the x ray machine - don't think he can have seen much but he seemed well pleased. On the same flight we had all our leathermans removed labelled and bagged because "someone" had, a few days before, started to dismantle albert whilst bored.

Recent trips to interesting areas have proved less bothersome with regard to removing lethal objects like nail clippers and in fact the movements staff were pleasant and kept us informed all the time. Could have been due to the presence on the flight of several scruffy chaps called Fred, Bert and Nosher who had boxes of stuff they wouldn't open.

Did once manage a mixed load of civgas, weapons and ammo (on the man) and white phos grenades. Does this count as a coup against all the members of the flying prevention branches?

[Ali Barber]

It's not just the mil types. A mate was captain of a BA 747 coming back from the States. He brought a golf driver and refused to put it in the hold as it would come out with a 90 degree bend it. Eventually he did as he was told and handed it to security who handed it to the captain of the aircraft on the flight deck. Also, while he was going through duty free, he passed a shop where he could have brought the same golf club. To complete the farce, he had it to security on arrival at Heathrow so that it could be returned to the rightful owner!

[ShyTorque]

I once landed a big green helicopter at a north London military airfield to pick up a second pilot, rotors running, to fly onward to RAFG. He had arrived by Landrover and was dressed in flying kit. The thoughtful and diligent movers had made him check in and given him a boarding pass and got a chap in a blue raincoat to escort him to the aircraft. The local expert tried to approach the aircraft via the tailrotor, so the pilot had to intervene and directed HIM round to the side. As he boarded, I was handed a brown envelope, all sellotaped up with a dinghy knife inside!

[theboywide]

You're not alone!
As a Herc mate coming back from a sandy det the jobsworths confiscated my survival knife from my hold baggage.
I'd been flying in my aircraft with it just 3 hours earlier.

[teeteringhead]

Many many years ago, Flying Officer Teetering had just delivered the command spare from the squadron in Sharjah to the other squadron in Bahrein (oh the happy dying days of the British Empire).

Couldn't get an aircraft to ferry back, so had to fly in the Argosy which provided a taxi service around the Gulf (Persian Gulf it was then).

Had me flying kit with me - knife didn't excite the movers, but the Mae West did!

Mover: (Pointing to Mae West inflation knob) What's that?

TeeH: It's what makes it work - pull the knob and it inflates the LSJ.

Mover: (triumphantly) Aha!! A compressed gas cylinder, can't take that on board sir, it's DAC (Dangerous Air Cargo).

TeeH flings Mae West to mate from other squadron who is staying in Bahrein and storms aboard the Whistling Wheelbarrow in grumpy astonishment........