Netjets!

[slam dunk 4]

Hi everyone,

what´s the current situation with Netjets? Reason for my question:

I was screened for them in Oct. 2007. Passed all and was offered a job.
Decided to stay with my company where I was working as a F/O . Became a Capt. . And guess what? It looks like that we will be fired!

Does anyone know if Netjets would accept my reapplication?

cheers

[lpokijuhyt]

Ya, I would call them right away! They are having massive recruitment road shows at the moment. Good luck!

[PAPI-74]

Don't forget your tow rope to pull out the moth-balled jets.

Recruitment road show....LOL Good one!!!

[CE550B]

Hmmm........right. Before the wolfpack is going to chew up your backside, you might have read somewere that we're in full reverse at the moment. Better try in again 4 years time (and do your homework :eek:)

[dan1165]

I heard they are looking for more than 500 pilots :} !!!!!!

[shawn.barker]

A good friend of mine was just in Columbus, where there base is, when they made the announcement that they were laying off 500 pilots! And supposedly thats just the first round. :ugh:

Good Luck!!

[Sean Dillon]

You could try BMI or Thomson Airways...desperate I hear!

(Sorry...sarcasm..lowest form and all that...)

[northern boy]

Slam Dunk, I'm sure you get the general drift but just to recap:

NJ US: 500 out the door last month.

NJME: Don't even ask.

NJE: 4 year "voluntary" program in force. Details published elsewhere. No recruitment, upgrades or fleet changes for at least that period. That's 4 years in case you missed it. Recruitment staff and some trainers now no longer doing the job as there is no foreseeable requirement for their services. Office staff reduced.

Horrible rumours of redundancies after Christmas.Hopefully that's all they are. Company strenuously denying this, which worries me.

Lots of aircraft in storage. Lots of aircraft disposed of.( entire fleets in some cases) All aircraft for sale for the "right price".

BH announce that they are still behind NJ. This worries me even more.

Redundancies at FSI ( owned by BH) see what I mean?

Management still enjoying all the usual benefits, so we can all breathe easily. I mean what's the world coming to if you can't f**k up and get away with it.

If you have an airline job then stay with it if you can and forget NJ for at least 5 years. Consider yourself extremely fortunate.

If you get laid off then look upon it as a good opportunity to get the hell away from aviation which is rapidly turning into a playground for pimply kids with rich parents and a dock labour scheme for everyone else. You would be better off driving a train, probably better paid and you wouldn't have to suffer airport security or greenpeace blaming you for dead polar bears.

This year was definitely a bad time to give up sniffing glue..:\

[jr of dallas]

........Good one!

[south coast]

Northern Boy, until reading your post, I had heard nothing of potential redundancies after Christmas, is that a new rumour or one you just started off yesterday?

[northern boy]

South coast,

That one was doing the rounds about a month ago. Heard it whilst in the US on last tour and it really cheered me up. As I said, hopefully just a rumour. Looking at the daily averages there may be some truth in it. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

btw I am not in the habit of making things like that up just for the fun of it. It's my living as well.

Now where's that tube of glue.....

[Damianik]

The boy was very smart at deciding to stay with his old airline and become a captain...sounds like what i should have done...

If u didnt you would be in this situation as well man, i was as well selected in october 2007, when they hired pretty much everybody that showed up in front of their door. I am not that good a pilot after all then :-)

Anyways, as per above, 4 years at least before new people in.

D

[Mike Oxbig]

Hi Northern Boy,

Was at FSI in Farnborough last month on recurrent and was told they were recruiting! Once guy who was let go in September was brought back in to help out whilst they trained up others (he declined to come back as he had decided to 'persue other interests'). My instructor told me they were getting quite busy across all fleets. If you are due for recurrent soon maybe you could confirm this? I don't believe we are out of the woods by a long shot but there are signs of recovery.

i have heard mutterings of more redundancies after Christmas on another forum, but don't know if it is just doomsayers speculating.

MB

[screwballburling]

"......when they hired pretty much everybody that showed up in front of their door."

Is that so? I know of a pilot with 17k + hours, rated on 2 types NJE operate and never ever got a reply from HR at Lisbon on the 3 occasions he applied in 8 years.

I believe he is quite happy it turned out that way, as he is still on a fulltime salary doing part time hours. 100 hrs per year, if that. :}

[slam dunk 4]

thx for the replies!

I was asking for Netjets Europe!

But it looks like that everywhere is the same situation!

thank you nothern boy for your post especially. thats exactly what i think!!!

good luck to everyone

[northern boy]

Hello Mike, did my last recurrent in August and it was all doom and gloom. Honestly I can't keep up with it any more. Since starting JS and sending back the BB (at my own expense I might add, does no-one accept amex?) I have not been privy to any form of communication from our glorious leadership. Quite how I am supposed to communicate when the passwords change I have no idea. carrier pigeon perhaps.

If FSI are as you say, bringing people back then good. Maybe things are picking up. I sincerely hope so since all my attempts to find alternative employment have failed miserably. Seems you cannot fly for the airlines these days if 1: your voice has broken, 2: you have started wearing long trousers 3: have more than 200 hours and 4: do not have access to sufficient funds to buy the aircraft you are flying, pay all running costs for 2 years and pay the airline management their salaries and pensions (plus bonuses) for the privilege. And that's for six months until little Johnny Fartpants completes training and replaces you. At twice the cost.

NJ, whatever their faults have at least not gone down this route. Yet.

A happy xmas and simply spiffing new year to all my colleagues. I hope to see you all in 2011 provided I have not drifted off into total oblivion by then.:zzz:

Toodle pip.:p

[Mike Oxbig]

NB,

Didn't realise you are on JS. I presume you still look in on 'The Other Forum' to keep abreast on what is going on?

Good luck and hang in there.

[seupp]

Northern Boy

I used the DHL account number that the co told me to use...

Take care and hope we'll be back soon.

[OFBSLF]

From today's NY Times:

Potential Successor to Buffett Has Tough Task

By GERALDINE FABRIKANT
Published: December 3, 2009

Maybe Warren E. Buffett should have stuck with railroads.

“We are instilling a culture of cost discipline and planning,” said David L. Sokol, who took over as chief of NetJets this year.

Warren E. Buffett, a NetJets user, has posed with his friend Bill Gates in NetJets ads and has endorsed private jet travel.

He once declared after an ill-fated bet on US Airways that he would resist any further urges to invest in airlines. But he ventured anyway into a high-end business that is an airline competitor of sorts — NetJets.

Right about now, he may wish that he had simply bought more of the railways he has accumulated over the years.

At NetJets, the returns have been disappointing — and lately the losses severe. Through his investment company, Berkshire Hathaway, he bought the private jet travel business, which caters to the affluent, for $725 million in 1998. Even though Berkshire does not provide detailed results for this small piece of its empire, insiders confirm that Mr. Buffett has yet to recover his investment.

With problems mounting at the unit — heavy losses and allegations of business improprieties — Mr. Buffett dispatched David L. Sokol to straighten out NetJets in July.

Mr. Sokol’s effort to turn the company around is being watched closely, in part because it provides a glimpse into the management style of a man considered a possible heir apparent to Mr. Buffett at Berkshire.

Mr. Sokol, who previously ran a utility company, has his work cut out for him. NetJets is a luxury business, but its revenue is shrinking, its management is in upheaval and its problems include accusations of improper workplace behavior.

While some former NetJets executives describe his management approach as overly aggressive, Mr. Sokol counters that he merely has “high expectations” for planning and execution and conveys them to employees.

Mr. Sokol describes his mission succinctly. “We are instilling a culture of cost discipline and planning.” In an e-mail message to the staff, he wrote that he had never seen a company of NetJets’ size that operated “without an integrated business plan” and with a budget that was “often ignored.”

Within a week of his arrival in July, Richard T. Santulli, the founder and chief executive of NetJets, resigned. According to several people close to the company, Mr. Santulli was unhappy that a Berkshire executive was brought in to provide oversight.

Mr. Santulli, who declined to comment for this article, is widely considered a visionary for creating a time-share business model for air travel, and a number of current and former executives fondly describe how he treated employees as family, perhaps a shortcoming when the business turned sour and cuts were called for. Initially, Mr. Sokol, 53, had been looking into allegations of excess spending and a consultant who was paid by both NetJets and a supplier. Those issues had been described in several letters to Berkshire from company employees, although the company has not identified the writers.

In a recent phone interview, Mr. Sokol said he had “documented the issues and gotten them fixed.”

After Mr. Santulli resigned, Mr. Sokol became chairman and chief executive, this time with a mandate to rein in costs. That decision was interpreted as a strong Buffett endorsement of Mr. Sokol, who he had no previous experience in airlines or luxury goods.

At MidAmerican Energy Holdings Company, Mr. Sokol turned a small energy company into a leading utility company supplying electricity and natural gas. From his post at the utility, now a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, which acquired the company in 2000, he notably supported the idea of lowering greenhouse gas emissions but rejected a complicated cap and trade system to achieve the goal. The Iowa company, where he still serves as chairman, posted $13.9 billion in revenue last year.

“If there is something prized at Berkshire, it is the ability to commit capital,” said Thomas A. Russo, a partner at Gardner Russo & Gardner, whose clients own Berkshire Hathaway stock. “Mr. Sokol has over the years committed substantial amounts of capital both within the U.S. and overseas, and the returns on those investments have been strong.”

But if Mr. Sokol is to succeed at NetJets, a company a fraction the size of MidAmerican, he needs to lower its costs while maintaining a luxury image.

Delivering a pleasant experience is crucial to the company’s marketing efforts. None other than Mr. Buffett has said so. A NetJets user, he has posed with his pal Bill Gates in NetJets ads and endorsed private jet travel as a life enhancer. By owning stakes in jets that they share with other owners, customers get private flights for far less than the cost of owning their own plane.

The recession has taken a toll on the business, though. NetJets lost $531 million in the first nine months of 2009, and revenue fell 42 percent from a year earlier, to $2 billion. And that was not its first loss. Although NetJets had pretax profits between 2006 and 2008 of more than $550 million, according to one person knowledgeable about the company who spoke only under condition of anonymity, its record has been spotty.

“I call it the Scooby-Doo profitability rationale,” said Robert Aboulafia, an aviation consultant with the Teal Group, a consulting firm. “They were always close to achieving profitability, but there was always one thing that stood in the way, and it was usually related to expansion.”

As sales fell off in 2008 and 2009, Mr. Santulli had begun selling some planes, but he resisted more drastic steps. To avoid layoffs, he favored voluntary measures like asking pilots to forgo holiday pay and to take additional time off. His reluctance to take more aggressive action may have been part of his downfall, Brian Foley, an aviation consultant, suggested.

Could NetJets have been tougher on costs earlier? “Sure they could,” said a former company executive because he did not want to speak publicly about NetJets after leaving. “But clients know that customer service really matters. Without it, air travel is just a commodity product and you can’t compete.”

Mr. Sokol is cutting more deeply. He has begun a program to reduce NetJet’s 7,800-employee work force by up to 11 percent, including 495 of its 3,100 pilots, and has accelerated plans to sell as many as 10 percent of the company’s 800 planes. Some of the high-end perks, including an annual poker tournament in Las Vegas and Loro Piana sweaters for jet owners, are going away, too. Over all, he expects to take $200 million, or 22 percent, out of the company’s operating costs.

Some former executives have complained about his management methods. A onetime NetJets executive, echoing the views of several others, said that Mr. Sokol was intimidating and put people on the defensive. “When he first came in, he got on the phone with a group of us and said: ‘I expect complete candor. I am taking notes and I expect full disclosure’ “ or their jobs could be at stake, this person recalled.

Mr. Sokol said he simply read from a script and did not make threats. He recalled the script thusly: “If you answer deceptively, that will not be looked upon favorably by the board.”

One thing that has changed is the top management, with some bumpy transitions.

Soon after Mr. Santulli left, Mr. Sokol promoted Ben Murray, who had overseen executive charters. Just weeks later, Mr. Murray was demoted to head of global asset management, where he oversaw the buying and selling of aircraft. Mr. Sokol said that Mr. Murray requested the change to “deal with family issues.” Mr. Murray declined to comment.

Meanwhile, Jim Jacobs, who had been Mr. Santulli’s No. 2, was made an adviser. The transition, according to Mr. Sokol, was part of a longstanding plan by Mr. Jacobs to leave the company at the end of January. Mr. Jacobs, too, declined to comment.

Then in October, the European chairman, Mark Booth, and that unit’s chief executive, Bill Kelly, abruptly resigned. Both of those men also declined to comment for this article, but several people close to the men said they were frustrated at being treated the same as their United States counterparts, even though the overseas business had been profitable for several years. They cited an e-mail message to the entire management team describing cost-control measures, in which Mr. Sokol wrote that any attempt to circumvent them would be dealt with “harshly and swiftly.”

The company had operated on some false assumptions, Mr. Sokol said in a recent interview. “I think there was a view that you could make a good return given who your customers were,” he said. Mr. Foley, the aviation consultant, estimates that NetJets’ customers, fractional jet owners, spend an average of $250,000 a year.

But Mr. Sokol says “there was not as much pricing power as one would have thought.” Though NetJets dominates the field with about 70 percent of the market, rivals like Flight Options provide intense price competition.

Now Mr. Sokol must prove that he can make the business hum without damaging one of the best-known luxury brands in travel. With the cost cuts, he expects the company to be profitable next year, but gone are the suites at the Ohio State University football games and North Face jackets for employees.

Mr. Sokol “had to do something dramatic,” said Bruce C. Greenwald, a professor at Columbia University Business School. “But changing a culture is very difficult, and it is not therefore clear that things will work.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/business/04buffett.html?_r=1&ref=business&pagewanted=all

[south coast]

Indeed an enlightening article from which it seems MB and BK didnt want to be part of the new team or its methods.

I hope we are on a better path now we have a 'no-nonsense' style leader, but perhaps the path is going to be painful.

[Waldi]

All RAFis get fired after X-Mas! and LIS will move to Poland to kill the animal planet!:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[south coast]

And now in English please.

[Rusty Trombone]

Well lets see here
Falcon 900B FB/FC/FD all sold.
GIV-DKA Sold
GV- DKB Sold
7X all being delayed.
H400 fleet 50% mothballed.

NJE had over 190 AC last year and its the hot gossip that they want to have 102.
So with that in mind they should be getting to Pre-2005 manpower numbers, so thats pilots, managers, office staff, maintenance etc.
Its about time the Lisbon staff realized that they are not God and that you can not actually walk on water.
Please put away your pie charts, case managements and calling FBO every 5 minutes to check if the catering has arrived. Get your CV updated and start groveling for a Job to all those people you have upset whilst in your ivory tower for the last 5 years or so.
You Know who you are?

Please hand your company car keys Audi A4 (standard Issue) school fees on your way out of Paco de arcos and take the bus to Lisboa to catch easy jet home.

Face the music please its happening every where
WAKE UP

[Damianik]

Is this guy for real?

[On standby]

He must know alot about NJE!

I guess the guys flying the 7X did not know it was not here!

190 A/C? I thought max on line was 168.

The pilots on options instead of redundancy and office staff already gone don't think they are Gods.

It always amazes me how many people love to doom monger about companies. NJE, Ocean Sky, TAG, etc are all flying and employing pilots but there is always a large number on pprune who seem to take immense joy in vicious rumour.

If 1 prospect does not buy a share because of rumours, it effects all in that company. Somehow the management always seem to end up okay, when a company goes down. It's the staff that end up in trouble.

[MLT]

Hawker Beechcraft Discloses Netjets Cancellations

http://www.hawkerbeechcraft.com/include/content_view.aspx?id=12032

The Company also announced that it has received cancellation notices from NetJets, Inc. for a significant number of aircraft previously contracted to be delivered over several years beginning in 2011. The impact of the cancellations will be to reduce the Company’s current backlog by approximately $2.6 billion. HBAC has previously disclosed that NetJets, while a considerable source of backlog, was not expected to provide the Company any substantial revenue during 2009 or 2010 and has historically not represented more than 10 percent of the Company’s annual revenue. The cancellations represent approximately 90 percent of the Company’s previously contracted backlog with NetJets.

MLT

[pma 32dd]

Oi I'll have you know I can walk on water...

It's bloody slippery and freezing here in London this morning!

:)

[Rusty Trombone]

I think we all have to realize that NJE/NJI have made great strides in improving the GA society. Service by FBO, Handling and Maintenance providers have all stepped up to the mark.
The economic downturn in europe is real? slight signs of growth of recovery are short lived and more and more companies going insolvent.
Globe Span yesterday.
NJE/NJI/Tag Aviation/Jet Alliance and a few others will always be around but maybe under new structures etc.
Lots of us are looking for work and its tough market, we all take pride in what we do, and unfortunately its always the crew who go first.

[JimJoness]

@ Rusty Trombone:


Sorry to hear mate that you obviously busted the NJE interview:8

[Twin2040]

Well !!! I think Rusty has more than one valid point - I took the money and left - now back in airline - no regrets. Twin2040

[Rusty Trombone]

Yes its a real shame I guess that you you say I busted the interview. I Know too much I guess on the situation.
Lets see what christmas brings?
Feliz Natal.

[angelorange]

WB has been checking out Austrian options:

"Warren Buffett ist mit seiner Business-Airline Netjets nun auch in Österreich gelandet. "Der US-Markt ist gesättigt und das Wachstumspotenzial in Europa ungleich größer", sagt Netjets-Chef Graeme Weston und erklärt damit auch den Eintritt in den österreichischen Markt.

Zum Hintergrund: Über seinen Fonds Berkshire Hathaway hat Buffett die Fluglinie 1998 für umgerechnet 487 Millionen € erworben. Allein für die Expansion nach Europa hat der Mogul noch einmal 480 Millionen € für neues Fluggerät in die Hand genommen. Mit Stand 2008 zählte die Netjets-Flotte in Europa bereits 174 Flugzeuge. Bis Ende 2009 werden für Netjets krisenbedingt nur noch 160 Maschinen unterwegs sein, was einem Marktwert von 665 Millionen € entspricht.

Sinkende Passagierzahlen

Die Zahlen der Statistik Austria zeigen: 2008 wurden um 5,3 Prozent weniger Businessflieger gezählt. Dennoch ist dieses Geschäftsfeld für die Betreiber lukrativ: Im Fall von Netjets kaufen Privatpersonen oder Unternehmen Anteile an einem privaten Businessjet zu einem Bruchteil der Kosten eines eigenen Privatjets. Im Gegenzug wird die Verfügbarkeit des Jets innerhalb von zehn Stunden an 365 Tagen im Jahr garantiert. Eine Flugstunde kostet etwa bei Netjets rund 5000 € und ist von der Steuer absetzbar.

Buffett macht damit auch der Jetalliance Konkurrenz, dem Platzhirschen in der Businessfliegerei. Die Motive Buffetts liegen für Jetalliance-Boss Lukas Lichtner-Hoyer auf der Hand: "Wir liegen an der historischen Ostgrenze", verweist er auf das Marktpotenzial in Osteuropa. "Für Russland stehen zirka 300 Businessjets bei einem Markt von 150 Millionen Menschen bereit." Zum Vergleich: In Europa fliegen 3500 Maschinen bei 500 Millionen Einwohnern. In den USA sind 13.000 Jets bei einem Markt von 300 Millionen Menschen abflugbereit.

Hohe Investitionen

Derzeit befindet sich die Branche noch im Tiefflug. "Unser Geschäft geht mit den Erwartungen am Kapitalmarkt mit. Wird weniger investiert, wird auch weniger geflogen", so Lichtner-Hoyer. Österreichs Status als Dorado für Geschäftsflieger bleibt einer Studie von Price Waterhouse Coopers zufolge dennoch erhalten: Das gesamte Investitionsvolumen beträgt 1,2 Milliarden €, der Branchenumsatz liegt bei rund 1,1 Milliarden €. Bis zu 250 Flugzeuge tummeln sich auf Österreichs Flugpisten, das ist die fünftgrößte Businessflotte in Europa."

[south coast]

We won the war, so how about in English please.

[jungle drums]

I have a dıfferent opınıon and I do not want to offend wıth gross generalısatıons but you cannot compare cultures.

I was once chastısed somehwere ın Swıtzerland for leavıng my car ıdlıng to keep ıt warm!

When Amerıcans get out of the suburban sprawls and move to cıty apartments.....get out of theır SUVs and start usıng mass transport or drıvıng cars wıth 1 lıtre engınes or even walkıng or rıdıng: and lıkewıse when Europeans do the converse then you mıght valıdly compare the US market to Europe.

Perhaps the consumptıon culture ıs comıng to Europe but ıt ıs currently a lıttle more dıscreet here. There are natıons where the oldest generatıons lıved through the deepest prıvatıons of war and excesses are stıll frowned on.

It ıs an ındustry I love but I thınk that wıth the current focus on GW the future ıs not brıght for a hıgh emıssıon ındustry that provıdes lıttle return for socıety.

Rather beıng a Dorado I would say prıvate jet avıatıon ın Europe has a future sımılar to that of a Dodo havıng seen ıts fırst human beıng.

Untıl humanıty dıscovers an alternate source of fuel..

[RPness]

@southcoast: You won the war. An honest THANK YOU for that, I dislike walking in cadence. (No sarcasm, honestly!)

Just for you:

---
Warren Buffett has finally landed in Austria with his Business Airline.
"The US market is saturated and the growth potential in Europa is unequally higher", says Netjets Boss Graeme Weston to explain the entry into the austrian market.

The background: Buffett bought the Airline in 1998 through his Fonds Company Berkshire Hathaway for 487 Mio Euro.
The business expansion to Europa cost him some 480 Mio Euro more for new airplanes.
In 2008 the NetJets fleet in Europe amassed 174 airplanes.
Due to the crisis, there'll be only 160 planes active in 2009, that's market share of 665 Mio Euro.

Less passengers

The austrian statistics show: There were 5.3 percent less flights in business jets in 2008. Nonetheless this market is still lucrative for the operators: Netjets is based on private persons or businesses buying shares of a business jet at a fracture of the cost of a dedicated airplane.
Netjets guarantees availability of hthe jet for ten hours in 365 days around the year.
One flight hour costs about 5000 Euro with Netjets and is tax deductible.

Buffett is rivalling Jetalliance, Austria's top bull in the business jet market.
For Jetalliance's boss Lukas Lichtner-Hoyer Buffets motives seem obvious: "We're positioned at a historical eastern frontier", he says, addressing the market potential of Eastern Europe, "There are about 300 business jets in Russia for 150 Mio people". For comparison: there are 3500 airplanes in Europe for about 500 Mio people. In the US there are 13.000 jets for 300 Mio people ready for departure.

Lage scale investment

At the moment, the market is still at its low. "Our business correlates with the capital market. Less investment means less flight activity, says Lichtner-Hoyer. Austria's status as an El Dorado for business flyers stays valid according to a study of Price Waterhouse Coopers: the total volume of investment is 1.2 billion Euro, the segments total turnover is at about 1.1 billion Euro. There are up to 250 airplanes on Austria's runways, that's the fifth largest business fleet in Europe.
---

I'm not a translator, just a Kraut. Sorry for mistakes.

btw, my all time favorite...

EDDF ground to a US Carrier lost while taxiing: "Haven't you been to Frankfurt before?"
US Carrier: "I have, in 1944, but I didn't land!"

Regards,
Peter