What is life in the Raf really like??

[jet jones]

Hi guys, joining up soon and i just wanted to know what to expect as far as quality of life is concerned. As regards detachment and deployments, why do some people go away for 4 months and some away for 2 years? Do you volunteer to go to places like the Falklands and cyprus or are you posted and for how long? If based in the Uk do you get weekends off or is it what operational requirments will allow? assuming I am based in scotland will i be able to board a RAF transport to the south if it was heading that way? loads of questions i know ..just trying to paint a picture..thanks in advance.

[Yozzer]

At first I thought this a troll, but looking at his history it looks genuine.

Why do some people go away for 4 months and some away for 2 years?

One is a detachment of which there are many, the other an overseas tour of which there are now few. One is usually a pain in the a*se, the other has been known to be fun.

Do you volunteer to go to places like the Falklands and cyprus or are you posted and for how long?

You can volunteer, but most are posted especially the Falklands, wonder why we still bother? We cannot afford it.

If based in the Uk do you get weekends off?

The majority do, but work gos on 365 days a year 24 hours a day, I have flown a 4 ship on Christmas Day because the boss thought it good for morale!!

I am based in scotland will i be able to board a RAF transport to the south if it was heading that way?

The answer here lies in "IF", to which I would expect yes, but usually it would be train, coach, car. plane at your expense.

Quality of life was a buzz word in the late eighties, now it is a long way down the list with Investors in paper and financial restraint keeping it there in a big way. I would encourage my son to join the forces, but those that have been around a while have known significantly better times regarding job satisfaction, respect, and motivation towards the job in hand. There is not too much support for Tonies army on tour in the Balkans living in cr*p accomodation with an iota of the perks that our NATO brothers get.

Yozzer

[bluntie]

I wouldn't let any of my kids join up. The whole of the RAF is going down the pan. IiP my ar*e. 'Quality of life'. That's a joke. 3 years to my 22, then they can ram it!. Been messed around once too often. My family come first, not the RAF. :mad:

[jet jones]

Thanks guys mixed reply..ummm I will be going in as ground crew..Flight Ops to be specific..any goodies to look foward to?

[Yozzer]

NO

[jet jones]

SS mail sent to your mail box...Surely its not that bad mr Y. So what will my first tour be like? Will it be abroad or somewhere in the Uk to gain experience.
How does promotion to senior rank work? what is the average number of years spent in one rank for example I will pass out as a flying officer and then make Fl lt in three years?? How many yrs on average before Sq ld?
I know its on merit after Fl lt but how much of a good boy do you have to be? Do senior officers i.e Sq ld still get to go on detachments and the sort?

[only1leftmate!]

Promtion to Flt Lt is as per the timescale set out for your particular entry qualifications and circumstances. Promotion to Sqn Ldr is based on your annual assessments and how they are perceived by the promotion board. At this point, take a deep breath. No system is perfect and although ours sometimes works and oes promote the right guys in the right timeframe, quite often it does not. Generally it is procedurally fair, but only generally, often your perceptions of your achievements will not match your assessments and the kinds of things that you are assessed upon may make you raise your eyebrows. For example, even today, if you are one of the more capable people who are being detached to the challenging and unpleasant tasks you wil be disadvantaged in comparison with the less-capable who are able to demonstrate an even and unstressed performance. There are things called secondary duties (you should reckon having 1 heavyweight and any number of additional secondary duties if you want promotion) which often can not be done well or even at all if you are forever being detached. Those never trusted with detachment do well here as their profile looks god incomparison with yours.

Should you wish to work outside of your branch as a demonstration of your capability and to enhance your enjoyment of your career, then prepare yourself for slow promotion.

If you wish to climb the corporate ladder as fast as possible then the possibilities can be good. Be prepared for Staff tours, Staff courses, tactical postings (ie stay in the ones you are good at for as long as poss and follow the same boss if you click with him) and be prepared to sacrifice your principles at the drop of a hat and s4it on the boys if it means points for you.

So there you have it, sometimes the right people get the right reward otherwise its a trade-off between a successful career or an interesting one. The rat race is as alive and well in the Service as outside of it.

Crunch question. Do I regret joining? No. Would I do it all again? No.

[jet jones]

Smashing response my man. Well it is exactly the rat race i am trying to get away from i guess you cant escape it then. Would you say pilots get promoted faster than the ground and admin trades?

[arfurmoth]

JJ- respect for asking the questions but did the careers guy actually do anything other than get you to sign the forms- have you visited a front line station, spoken to some real people other than us muppets. There is still some good stuff to be had- the money ain't great but it's ok- some limited travel, sport and training and some good mates but you need to find this out for your self before signing the line.

[4 of 7]

I think that if you read some of the other posts around yours, you'll find out!

Still, manure promotes growth as the little witty, ditty said a few years back.

[L1011 Flyer]

Have a look at the post 'WANTED' on page 2 for a glimpse of what a state the Royal Air Farce is really in.

IMHO it only works because of a steady influx of keen (yet soon to be disapointed) young things. :(

[jet jones]

You are very right afurmoth..the careers guys did give me info but there is only so much i can get from them, they are there to sell the RAF afterall hence my contact with you guys on the coal face. I have been in touch with Boscombedown as it is the closest to me but a lovely and very helpful pilot officer has just got back to me with the news that Boscombe is not operational as such it apparently a suppport station for a private company and something to do with testing....My details have been passed to odiham strike command to see if i can get a day there so any of you guys based there who can stretch a leg it would be very helpful. I am due at cranwell in less than a week so the sooner the better. Interested areas are FlOps, Intel and Fighter controller(would be nice to be airborne) so any horror stories about these branches welcome too....thanks in advance.

[Al Titude]

I wouldn't pass up the chance of a visit to Boscombe Down if you can get it. Whilst it isn't front line it does have loads of sqns stacked full of really experienced guys, most of whom are recently off front line tours. It has the Empire Test pilot school, an Operational Evaluation unit, FJ, Multi and Rotary Test Sqns, aswell as a UAS so there are bags of people to meet.
They should be able to give you all the info you want before OASC.
Good luck!

[jet jones]

Thanks Al i shall be giving him a call back tomorrow then. He did mention they had just one flight ops guy there who was constantly busy...But i will push and see what i can get. I suppose if i cant speak to him i could just observe and speak to other officers.

[DESPERADO]

JJ,
See the Nav thread also. For what it's worth, am I glad I joined? Yes, very. Would I do it again? Absolutely, I would have done some things differently along the way, but I would still join. Are there things wrong with the RAF? Are there things that p1ss me off? Yes to both, but I still believe that it is a good life. I am not an apologist for the RAF, but I sometimes think that these threads can give a very negative view of the airforce (and for some people that is justified). Visit Boscombe and have a look. If you decide not to join, make sure that you have all the facts, don't let all the miseries on PP put you off, as they may not be doing you a favour.

[Chinese Vic]

JJ,
Life in the Branches you are looking at is as varied as it possibly could be. The Ops Support Branch was put in place specifically to free up aviators from some of the ground jobs, and consequently we are now picking up a lot of interesting jobs. The process is slow, however, but will be worthwhile in the end as it keeps the (very expensive) aircrew in the cockpit longer, and gives us the chance to expand (I'm not empire building, honest!)
My particular specialisation is challenging, different every day and can be a real buzz when you're in the thick of the action. However, like any job, there are trying days and the points that others have made about quality of life, civilianisation, financial restraints and overseas detachments ring very true.
I've been in Ops Sp for 4 1/2 years, and haven't yet picked up a 4-month det, although in the last 2 years I've been out of the country for 11 1/2 months with my Squadron on either ops or exercises. (I'm sure I'll get one soon!) In today's climate of peace-keeping vs overstretch, you can expect a lot of detachments as a Junior Officer. Don't get me wrong - I'm not complaining about the time away as I for one did not join up to stay in one place, and I enjoy being on detachment. However, there can be a fair amount of strain on the family when you're away for extended periods - particularly when exercises roll straight into ops, with no firm RTB date.
Would I join up again? Absolutely.
Same decisions? No - with better advice, I could have been doing this job ages ago, and I have to say I love what I do!
As for promotion to Sqn Ldr - you'll get your first shout when you have 4 yrs in rank as a Flt Lt, although for real high flyers this is sometimes less. More usually, 5/6 years plus would be about right, but it does depend on the jobs you've done and how your 'profile' looks to the Board. Command and Staff Training helps (the dreaded ISS Service Writing correspondence course and Junior Officers' Command Course) and you must be attracting positive write-ups and promotion recommendations from your reporting officers. Recent extremes in my specialisation: 1999 - chap promoted to Sqn Ldr after 21 years in rank. 2000 - someone else promoted to Sqn Ldr after 4 years!
All in all, the job and lifestyle are great - yes, the perks aren't what they were and there are less of us to go around - but it's still good! Good luck!

Vic

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Chinese Vic ]

[Chris McCOY]

Hello Jet !

I am a "Trials Officer" on site here at Boscombe Down, presently on the Rotary Wing section. The airfield is now operated by a company called "QinetiQ Ltd.", with representatives from the three services also on site. The primary function of the site is to test and evaluate new aircraft and/or new equipment, be they fast jets, helicopters, transport aircraft, or most other air vehicles. Additionally, the Empire Test Pilot's School (ETPS) trains UK Military Test pilots and Flight test Engineers, as well as several from foreign nations. Members of the Southampton University Air Squadron and local Air Training Corps (which is just outside the front gate)each spend some time on site. I would highly recommend the site as a place to see many of the UK's fleet of aircraft in one place, and to see a larger picture of military and civilian life.
Realistically, you can request a day to view the site - no guarantees - or apply for non-paid work experience. In the latter case especially I would recommend contacting Ms. Merrit by phoning directory enquiries on 192, getting QinetiQ's number at Boscombe down, and asking to speak to her directly. I am avoiding giving a direct number for you at this time, but if you have difficulties, please write or e-mail back.

Good Luck and Best Wishes ! This is one of the more exiting sites and there is a more positive view of forces life to see on site.
At present, I am one of the many civilians employed at MOD Boscombe Down airfield. :D

[Chris McCOY]

I like my sites I see !! :eek:

[Mr Nitrox]

You need a Theowaddoyacalliemalarkie.

[BEagle]

Brave of someone from Qinetiq (what an UTTERLY stupid name),pronounced 'KwintyKwoo', to stick their head above the parapet.
Why not ask to visit a proper military base instead of some contractorised place which is merely representative of much of what is currently viewed as being the unacceptable way things are being dragged in the RAF.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[jet jones]

ok guys i am not going to get involved in the politics but i do know it will affect me once it gets in..You know the new public private patnership thing...Its everywhere, something we will have to live with in these cost cutting days i suppose...thanks for the info and advice guys i am still trying to get in somewhere as we speak.

[Al Titude]

BEagle...why the slamming of Boscombe? How dare I question someone so wise as yourself, but there are loads of experienced mil personnel and I know you'll find morale there a great deal higher than at RAF Carterton!
Perhaps a visit there may be even more worthwhile for someone hoping to join - if indeed it represents the way the forces are going. Not everyone there is hour building for the ATPL accreditation and job with BA! (No offence intended!)
Regards