Flying over Lake District

[Mark.Watson]

Hello all,

A question to all out there who fly over the Lake District regular.
Which ATC/FIS unit do you speak to when flying over the Lake District generally?

Over the past few months I have been told to call Scottish Info on 119.875 but I have found there comms quite weak and poor.

I have noticed though that London Info seem to be much clearer and stronger on 125.475 over the Cumbria area so do they work this area more than Scottish? :confused:

Thanks in advance!
Cheers
Mark

[BHenderson]

I have used Scottish as far down as Lancaster, however South of Carlisle reception can be sketchy. Carlisle will tend to pass traffic to Scottish regardless. London do seem to be the better option.

[maxred]

Scottish generally from Deancross heading north. I find that I lose Scottish at Barrow if heading south but by that time I am generally talking to someone else - Blackpool, Wharton at al.

[GearDownFlaps]

If you are at the southern end of the lakes , Bpool radar 119.950 or warton radar 129.525 will provide you with a service quite adequately. they are normally good up to about 30-35 miles north of the respective fields . Dependant on your height.
Give them a call

[fisbangwollop]

In general we at "Scottish info" are handed traffic north bound over the Lakes by either Blackpool or Warton round about Barrow . Comms from there should be OK as we have a TX/RX site on Lowther hill near Dumfries. For south bound traffic we always pre note either Blackpool or Warton of your details and transfer between Sellafield and Barrow. :cool::cool::cool:

[Barshifter]

Some good advice has already been given on here.

Heres my take.

Flying the flexwing,I have great problems in raising Scottish.Tend to stick to Carlisle in and around the Lakes.If its the fast jets your concerned about,you will struggle to get much info unless of course you are in two way with say Warton(South Lakes).Fly high and keep a good lookout.Personally I dont go much below 2000ft.Most of the jet flyers will give you a wing wobble(to indicate theyve seen you) as they pass.Ocasionally they will call up Carlisle as they pass between the city and their zone.If you can sqwawk,even better.Spadeadam are usually watching out if your in the North East of Cumbria.Some of the best flying to be had up here enjoy!!

[Mark.Watson]

ok guys thanks very much.
I cannot see anything on the AIP/NATS AIS website that says Scottish cover the Lake district. It only says someting about Scottish FIR north of North 55 deg and London FIR south of that line.

London Information did tell me though that they get good coverage of Cumbria as they have transmitters at Great Dun Fell near Penrith and Snaefell on the IOM. Why don't Scottish have a transmitter on either of those hills and I am sure they will be able to get a better R/T coverage in the Lakes area?

Carlisle usually do tell me to call Scottish on 119.875 however I find there comms over lakes at approx 2500 feet quite weak.

Mark

[fisbangwollop]

The Scottish FIR Sector sector covers airspace from the Lakes to the Moray firth so the rest of our transmitters are further north. London have coverage over the Lakes as technically it is their airspace but to be honest most folk will not talk to them as they are far too busy with traffic further south...I.E crossing the English Channel!! Only if you are really low and down below the summit heights is the coverage poor but in general I rarely lose contact with traffic above 2000ft. In general as I said before we have an unofficial agreement that Blackpool and Warton will hand traffic to Scottish Info over the south Lakes for north bound traffic and we do the same to them with traffic heading south.:cool::cool:

[Mark.Watson]

ok FISbangwollop I will continue to call you when transiting the Lake District North and South.
Carlisle normally do tell me when heading south out of there area to call your good selves passing either Penrith or Keswick so I will continue to do that in the future.

To be honest overall I think you guys at Scottish Info give a much better service than London info that’s for sure.

I tend to find that London can't give much of a service really as most of the time there frequency is very congested!

I do think though that it would be much better if Scottish used a radio site such as Great Dun Fell or somewhere down near Lakes as it would encourage pilots even more to use 119.875 as comms would be much clearer around here.

Just a suggestion!
keep up the good work.

[fisbangwollop]

I have responded to your email also with my NATS hat on!! :cool::cool::cool:At the end of the day in the open FIR and class "G" airspace the choice is yours who you speak to if anyone at all.....One thing for sure if you call Scottish you will be assured of a good service despite the limitations of R/T coverage below 2000ft over the Lakes. :cool::cool:

[A.Agincourt]

Fiz - your service is exemplary irrespective of the quality of communication. I speak to you at least a dozen times every other week and have used the service since 1975. Absolutely no complaint whatsoever.......any time. So now go and tickle your chin and feel bemused. :ok:

Best Wishes

[and it is still a ????]

[fisbangwollop]

Agincourt...tickled chin so now bemused....thanks for your kind comments your cheque is in the post..:ok: :cool::cool::cool:

[Halfbaked_Boy]

If towards the North East, Durham Radar, Leeming Zone etc are very helpful :)

[2high2fastagain]

Be careful as you head south from Carlisle. When I've been up there (for a quite stunning all-day breakfast I should add), Carlisle suggested Scottish Info when I left the circuit. This was all fine until I got to Shap, where I lost them (flying at about 3000' AMSL). Calling London and letting them know I'd lost Scottish was the next step, plus a mental note where to set the boundary between the two next time. Both provide great service is my experience.

Oh, and by the way. I don't think Warton ATCwere operating at the weekend when I was flying...

[Halfbaked_Boy]

2high2fastagain,

Strange... perhaps it was the particular ATCer at Carlisle?

I was there yesterday, and flying South East our chappie asked me to report range 16 nm from Carlisle at which point he passed me a squawk and freq for Durham, was very handy!

I guess it depends who you get on the day though, and more importantly, how busy they are. :)

[fisbangwollop]

Halfbaked.....if flying SE if you called me initially at "Scottish" I to would pass your details to Durham then get you to QSY once a little closer and before you lost contact with me....probably just to the south of Appleby..:cool::cool::cool:

[BoeingMEL]

Retired now but used Scottish many times from 80-02..(usually G-OMET and G-BCKM) always courteous, helpful and 100% professional. I miss those days..thanks guys (and girls of course!) :D bm

[Mark.Watson]

2high2fastagain,

Yes that was the similar area where I noticed weak and broken transmissions from Scottish Information too.

Let’s hope NATS/Scottish Radio engineers finally realise that people are experiencing comms problems over the Lakes and they put a transmitter on Great Dun fell or somewhere closer than the Lowther Hill.

Scottish Info gives a brilliant service mind and very friendly guys I must add too!


Mark

[10W]

Let’s hope NATS/Scottish Radio engineers finally realise that people are experiencing comms problems over the Lakes and they put a transmitter on Great Dun fell or somewhere closer than the Lowther Hill.

Probably unlikely as, strictly speaking, the Scottish area of responsibility ends at 55 North. The bean counters would need justification, or someone to pay for it.

Now, with the new ATC Centre at Prestwick up and running, plus Manchester ATC centre moving up there in late January, it might be possible for the new Centre to make a case for increasing their area of interest further South on an official basis. If that happened, then appropriate RT coverage would have to be provided.

[bad bear]

ah, the lake district. It is so beautiful and remote, I love it. In terms of who to speak to, why speak to anyone? just enjoy the views and turn the radio off. In terms of trafic density it is really quite low. A few microlight haveing fun on the lighter wind days, the odd autogyro and 20 or so gliders somewhere on the ridges, enjoying the thermals and convergences up to cloud base or up at FL195 in the spectacular wave. Its nice to see the odd Tuccano or pointy thing whizzing about. I guess the air ambulance talks to someone? Just enjoy in peace and quiet.
b b

[tarnish26]

just enjoy the views and turn the radio off.

And when the engine suddenly stops and you Force land on the side of a mountain and are found 5 days later by some folk out hill walking all because no one knew you were there in the first place :=

No the Lakes is the exact sort of terrain like the Highlands of Scotland that if I fly around at lowish levels I like to let ATC know I am there..........thankfully I normally spend my time in the office above F350 but when I take a busmans holiday and with a single Lycoming on the front yes the nice guys at Scottish are a sweet sound in my ears....keep up the good work.:ok:

[bad bear]

If you are worried about having your wreckage found, try a "spot" or PLB. They are much more effective and you dont have to listen to them. Im suprised people would fly in rugged areas of poor reception without one. They are so cheap now and you can even send a text to say you have crashed and are ok. Your loved ones can even monitor your progress on the pc at home, but is that a good thing? Another good idea is to leave your mobile phone switched on as the cell phone co can trace your possition quite quickly.
b b
ps tarnish26, do you wear a parachute?

[tarnish26]

If you are worried about having your wreckage found, try a "spot" or PLB. .....Thats fine if your concious to activate it!!

you can even send a text to say you have crashed and are ok..........and if your not OK you may have a problem sending that text

ps tarnish26, do you wear a parachute? ........not now only when I was strapped in to a Martin Baker seat!!!

BADBEAR.......Thanks for your fine advise but I will still chose to talk to the cheery guys at Scottish in the hope one day they may save my life ..:ok:

[2high2fastagain]

LOL. Badbear and Tarnish of course are both right - for what they want out of their flying. Don't fall out over it though chaps! Personally, I have to admit I'm in tarnish's camp. A while back, I heard a mayday from a SEP going down in a pretty remote area and, being nearby, was able to get over the scene, watch them safely down and coordinate with ATC. My radio was always tuned in before, but after this it certainly always will be!

But I don't switch my phone on when flying, nor do I have a parachute (don't think a cessna with a strut has ever broken up?). Still, each to his own - within the regs of course!

[Mark.Watson]

Yes it’s definitely worth speaking to someone there is no doubt about it but its just a shame Scottish Information don't have better RT coverage of the Lake District area.
I think it would be good if it went official and was published in the AIP as then people would know who to talk to when flying over lakes instead of 5 different aircraft in the area talking to 5 different ATC units.

[Copiedwilco]

Mark & Others,

I have just recently joined PPrune but I noticed this thread regarding who to speak to when flying over the lovely Cumbrian hills.

In my case, I do occasionally venture up to the likes of Oban, Cumbernauld, and Dundee or fly over the Lake District on a jolly.
When I leave either the Blackpool or Warton frequencies heading north I tend to call Scottish Information on 119.875 who I can normally receive good & clear above say 3000 feet.

I was flying around the Lakes a couple of weeks ago and I tuned into both Scottish 119.875 & London 125.475 and I definitely found London was a much clearer signal than Scottish but that is probably due to the transmitter locations they use. That was at approx 2000 feet.

Overall though I would rather work Scottish Info over the Lake District hills as they give a much better service than London and London's frequencies are very busy and congested.

With the regards to the AIP maybe the area coverage will change at some point so that Scottish FIS covers this section of Class G Airspace across the picturess Cumbria rather than London FIS.

P.S Stunning views in Cumbria when snow was around.

Paul

[Ringway Flyer]

We quite often head north over the lakes to Carlisle or further up and use Warton initially, Blackpool if requested to, and then Scottish. Height is the key, here, and we usually would be at at least 3,500 or higher over the lakes, for several reasons. Better comms, better view, above most of the other traffic and more time to think if the donk stops.... :ok:

[flybymike]

Height is the key, here, and we usually would be at at least 3,500 or higher over the lakes, for several reasons. Better comms, better view, above most of the other traffic and more time to think if the donk stops....

Masochist. More time to think about which mountainside to stuff it into?

[fisbangwollop]

I have just heard today that the CAA's DAP ( Directorate of Airspace policy ) have shown an interest after the various post's on this forum. I can only guess soon then something more official will be done about the confusion that exist's at this present time..........One thing though for sure please if flying over hostile terrain like the Lakes I would suggest you at the very least talk to someone!!....Safe flying to you all. :cool::cool::cool:

[Copiedwilco]

Thanks for your help Paul.
Keep up the good work and speak to you next time!


Cheers
Paul (No.2!)

[bad bear]

Guess DAP will mandate ELTs for powered planes in designated remote areas. Given that the only flat places to crash in some areas are lakes mandating lifejackets might be a good idea too.
bb

[Steve90]

Hi Halfbaked_Boy / 2high2fastagain,

Just noticed your post about Carlisle.

At Carlisle we usually pass traffic to Durham Radar when heading south east normally at VRP Alston, if you are flying the Penrith way and then more towards Warcop you will be usually passed to London Information initially. Likewise with London if your heading over lakes or via M6.

All South Westbound traffic from Carlisle routing down the Cumbrian coast towards EGNH/EGNS normally goes to Scottish Information who give a good service in that area and have good RT coverage.

When you get down as far as Windermere / Kendal area Blackpool Radar or Warton Radar can give you a service (sometimes a radar service too).

All the best!

Steve