Recency

[skaios]

Hey guys..

I am about to lose my IR recency on my DGCA CPL. I was wondering if anyone knows which schools in India have Senecas.

Also, if anyone has gone through the process, what is the check ride like? I have never flown in India so any help on that front would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[silent_scream]

I am considering You are about to lose your IR Rating and need to renew / validate it.

Chimes aviation, Amber Aviation, Alchimist Aviation, Birmi Flying academy and Orient School have Senecas as per DGCA website.

I know Chimes has a Seneca Turbo last I'd heard. They used to charge between Rs.30,000 to Rs.40,000 Per hour. The IR Check is usually an Hour to Hour and Half.

Many people would say don't worry, You never fail in India, etc, etc. But I would say, prepare like you'd for your FAA , Australian, Canadian IR Renewal skill test.

The procedure and pattern of the flying test vastly depend on the place you go to. If there are the instruments, viz ILS , VOR, NDB ; you can fly them. If not, then what ever the Examiner says. You will have to talk to the instructor and students at the place you choose to fly.

All the best for your test and please do write back the way you choose to help others with the same situation.
Silent.

[skaios]

Thanks for the input Silent Scream.

Yes, you are right. I am about to lose my IR rating and need to renew it.

From what I heard, if you renew your rating within the year when it is valid only an IR check is required. However, if you let it lapse then 5 hours of flight training are required. Still have to find this in the DGCA regs in black and white though.

Anyways, I will update the thread when I finish with the check which should be sometime by the end of next week.

Thanks again.

[cyrilroy21]

Cant you renew your IR rating on a single engine aircraft like a cessna or something ?

[skaios]

Cant you renew your IR rating on a single engine aircraft like a cessna or something ?

Well yeah I could do that too. At present I have an instrument rating on a single engine airplane (diamond da40) as well as a multi engine airplane (piper seneca).

But there is some confusion on that front and it is something that is relevant to anyone whose IR rating is about to expire.

According to the DGCA if you have a instrument rating on a multi-engine airplane, you may exercise the privileges of instrument rating on any
single engine aeroplane entered in the aircraft rating of your licence.

So in terms of that it is obviously better to just redo the IR check on the ME airplane that has been endorsed on your license and still have the flying privileges on the SE aircraft.

However, the question is, is it really necessary to have an instrument rating on a multi-engine aircraft in order to have a better chance of being employed by an airline in the future? Or is an instrument rating on a single-engine airplane only sufficient in that regard? Would it make a difference to the airlines if you have a CPL with ME and SE endorsements but IR only on the SE compared to having a CPL with ME and SE endorsements but IR on the ME?
:confused: :ugh:

[SuperflyTNT]

As far as my knowledge goes, you'll have to fly for 5hrs on the license you choose to obtain your commercial pilot license on. Say, if you have a Multi Engine endorsed CPL then you'll have to fly 5hrs under the hood/actual on the Multi engine a/c you've been endorsed on.

[AvNavCom]

Skaios i can totally understand the feeling of helplessness when you dont know what the rules regarding the recency of IR are !!!

Just because the stupid DGCA people took out a circular in 2004 regarding the recency rules and forgot to ammend the aircraft rules-1937.

So here's the circular they took out in 2004 hope this helps (DGCA websites like a maze where they make sure as allways to screw up your happiness)

OPERATIONS CIRCULARS (http://dgca.nic.in/rules/oper-ind.htm)

(operations circular 2 of 2004.)

[skaios]

@ SuperflyTNT: That is only applicable for initial issue or once your instrument rating expires. If it is still valid you only have to redo the IR check which consists of two approaches, tracking and intercepting.
http://dgca.nic.in/schedules/section-o.pdf

[jimmygill]

If you are not actively flying and you are just waiting for new vacancies to turn up, keeping yourself IR current is not going to give you any tangible advantage, so not a good Idea to waste money on.

If you do want to keep your instrument scan and other skills current, you can always find out cheaper options like a PC based flight trainer, this may sound stupid... but a free advice.


An Instrument rating on Multi Engine aircraft is always better than one just on single engine.

If you haven't already flown a multi engine aircraft you will need a bare minimum of 10 hrs of flight training on Multi Engine for your ME-IR endorsement.

[SuperflyTNT]

Thanks a bunch, SKAIOS :)

[skaios]

@ AvNavCom: This DGCA circular is complete news to me! I have never seen it before in my life. Gotta love them eh? But this does not mention anything about instrument flying. All it talks about is being generally current to fly an aircraft in line with VFR.

@Jimmygill: That is what I have heard from other sources as well. That it doesn't make sense to do the IR renewal if you are not actively flying those particular planes. However quite a few people still believe that having currency improves your chances of getting a job with the airlines. How much of truth is there to that? You already mentioned that it doesn't really make much of a difference but it would be nice to know the background behind it.

[AvNavCom]

@ skaios: yup totally agree with you there brother thats why if your IR has lapsed and if you haven't flown for the last 12 months which i think would be the general case you'll have to fly
a.) 00:45 min familiarization flight,
b.) skill test by day and by night,
c.) then your IR test

thats roughly around 5 hrs.
N yeah not to mention Ground Refresher on Technical/Performance with qualified AME/Examiner on type.

This i got to know after a friend of mine who JUST did 1 hr of IR test for his recency was told by the DGCA to go fly some more.

[skaios]

@ AvNavCom: Yeah that makes sense. Thanks for the breakdown.

[SuperflyTNT]

Hey, so for someone who hasn't flown in the last 12 months and needs to convert his license how many hours of Instrument would he/she have to fly and how many hours of x-c? I'm kinda confused now. I need to just do my recency as I've cleared my papers and RT so how manys hours of Instrument would i have to fly, and how many approaches and landings do I have to do for the day/night check. Would really help if one of you guys can break it down for me! Thank you.

Regards
TNT

[silent_scream]

If you are going to do your recency, this is what you need

(i) general flying test by day;

(ii) general flying test by night;

(iii) a cross-country flight test by day consisting of a flight of not less than two hundred fifty nautical miles in the course of which at least one full stop landing at an aerodrome other than the aerodrome of departure shall be made;

(iv) a cross-country flying test by night consisting of a flight of not less than one hundred twenty nautical miles returning to the place of departure without landing elsewhere; and

(v) not less than fifteen hours time as Pilot-in-Command flight time within a period of six months immediately preceding the date of application;

(vi) not less than five hours time by night including a minimum of ten take offs and ten landings as Pilot-in-Command (as sole manipulator of controls) carried out within six months immediately preceding the date of application for licence;

If you are applying for an Instrument Rating as well,

(vii) not less than forty hours of instrument time of which not more than twenty hours shall be instrument ground time. A minimum of five hours of instrument time shall have been completed within a period of six months immediately preceding the date of application for the Instrument Rating;

(viii) IR skill test.

Source : SECTION A GENERAL (http://dgca.nic.in/schedules/sections.htm)

All the Best. Do write back if you find anything different or New on the requirement side.
Fly Safe.

Silent.

[yash]

okay guys now dere's dis fellow who tells me dat instead of getting ur multi ir recent just go for single engine coz airlines dont ask for multi dey just want da ir ...........anyone can help me on dis ?

[sec 3]

Hey yash, I think you have to be able to read and write to get any kind of licence. I guess that would count you out:eek:

[yash]

hey man that was some very good sarcasm up there:ok: , but if you could be off some help too that would be even better

[skaios]

@Silent: Spot on.

@Yash: Nice to see someone still has a sense of humour. With regards to your question, yes there are some people who say that just having an IR rating is what matters. Doesn't matter whether it is on a SE or ME. But again that's an opinion and not a fact.

[revtech]

so the debate continues..whether one should or should not keep his IR current...

skaios what have you finally decided to do ?

also what needs to be looked into if i plan on going to the US since the BE-76 is not air worthy in india.i heard you need to get an NOC from DGCA or something

[yash]

yes this much i know u need a NOC from DGCA

[revtech]

who should i contact regarding the NOC and how long would it take to get it ?

[skaios]

@ Revtech: I've just decided to wait and watch. I am not going to be renewing my IR as of now. About the NOC, I am guessing the process should be similar to the NOC people apply for when they are overdue on their medicals. If that's the case then it doesn't take long at all. You have to type out the letter yourself and take it to the DGCA where they stamp it for you and that's about it. It might warrant a trip to Delhi though.