VR Pilots

[Human Factor]

There's been a great deal in the papers recently about the RAF being short of pilots due to the airlines recruiting fairly heavily and offering shedloads :rolleyes: of cash whilst allowing you not to get shot at when you go to work.

My day job allows me to hurtle round Europe in an Airbus, which I enjoy, however I'd love to get my hands on some interesting flying. I know for a fact I'm not fit enough for FJ, but I'd be perfectly happy flying an Albert around hurling paras out of the ramp.

However, because I've never been in the proper RAF (UAS notwithstanding) and never received a set of RAF wings, why are the powers that be reluctant to allow me (ATPL, multicrew, 2500hrs) to fly for them part time - as perhaps the Americans would in the ANG?

If guys and gals could be allowed to do that, surely it would help to alleviate the pilot shortage.

Opinions please ........

[kbf1]

The problem is that for reserve forces the law does not allow for a guaranteed level of service. Any Officer or enlisted is allowed to resign their commission/leave without notice, whereas I believe the ANG does have the ability to require a return of service. In order to make you a worthwhile option the RAFR would have to invest in tactical training and OCU (which I belive are hard pushed to get students though as it is, even with the recruitment/retention problem through under-resourcing of instructors/airframes) which is a huge risk to take if you resign a week after completing your course. I don't see that the government is rushing to change the law to enable a return of service.

The AAC does have a TA Reg't that has ground branch employmemnt for non-pilots, and a number of operational flights with ex-AAC reg pilots, but the waiting list to get in is long, and it is very cliquey (i.e I know Roger who drinks with Paul who is best mates with Steve who is Chief Pilot in my airline who are all ex such-and-such a regt AAC). I also believe that the RAFR has some ex Albert drivers who still put in a few weeks a year.

[roydeanne]

to airforcenone. Hi there.
I have quite a bit to do with the running of the RAF hercules reserve aircrew(HRA) flt at Lyneham. There is nothing I would like more than to have the authority to recruit experienced airline pilots who have not previously served in the RAF. However,my Lords and masters have (with no room for negotiation) limited recruitment to aircrew who have qualified and served at least one tour on an RAF frontline ac types before they can considered for selection. The reasons are:cost, and available training slots on the short and concentrated courses. Typically, I recruit from people who recently left the RAF (e.g. from the C130), they still retain their flying category and where possible - currency. This saves me a packet in operating costs and I get an experienced flyer who is familiar with the way things are done at Lyneham. incidentally, the pilot shortages in the RAF are predominantly FJ. The multi-engine side is fairly well placed. Sorry to disappoint you, but I do understand your sentiments.
Regards greengiant.

[CAVU]

Greengiant

If the RAF/RN/Army could arrange a "conversion" course to military flying practices for civvie pilots, which ensured flight standards are maintained, do you not think that it could be a more economic way to train many flight crew?

As a British pilot, I am in the ridiculous and frustrating situation of being too old (26) for service in my homeland, but eligible to fly in the States. I looked into the RNR after my brief stint in the the Navy, but like the RAF, only previously commisioned aircrew are eligible for flying duties.

Like airforcenone, I would gladly hang up the Bose and don a bone dome back in Blighty given the opportunity.

[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: CAVU ]

[Human Factor]

Interesting stuff, thanks.

So now all I've got to do is lobby HMG to change the law. No sweat!! :rolleyes:

You would think they would have been far sighted enough to see that this could alleviate their shortage.

[slim boy fat]

I for one can do without Aux pilots on my program- not there when you need them or for stuff that doesn`t appeal, just a hinderance to keep them current.
`HMG` should concentrate on keeping our own people in.

[Multp]

Hate to spoil chaps' fun, but what about those three nasty little letters....
F T L ?
There is an exemption for air cadet flying, but that's about the only thing that doesn't count.

[CAVU]

Slim Boy Fat

Do I understand your post correctly; you are not obligated to any time or date commitments in the the RAF Auxiliary?

If this is the case, how do they make it work, or doesn't it?
Is this the same for all UK reserve forces?

In the States they call, you go, and there are mandatory service requirements for all reserve personnel. Employers face harsh repercussions if they descriminate against employees who are serving, or choose to serve, in the reserves. Their reserve forces are fully front line capable and are indispensable to the US defence structure, with USAF reserve and ANG units regularly deploying overseas. As a reserve pilots, it is quite possible to be flying a 777 from Atlanta to London on Friday and be over the Iraqi no-fly-zone on Monday-- definitely not a Dads Army type operation.

Would you feel the same way if Auxs had similar arrangements?

Multp

F L T?

[ 04 September 2001: Message edited by: CAVU ]

[WebPilot]

Speaking an an ex-Oggie (non-flying), I can confirm that leaving is a matter of either not turning up and eventually being asked to resign, or (as I was forced to do) requesting discharge before my 4 year engagement was up. In my case work commitments went up and I simply did not have time, so I rang up said my piece and sadly my got discharge and sent back the kit.

[Multp]

CAVU
FTL: Flight Time Limitations (Crew Duty Time in my military days) A bit of civil regulation which prevents our employers from working us too hard, but equally, since they want their money's worth, gives them a target: after which there's often little or none left in your personal pot for other than purely recreational flying. :mad:

[BEagle]

Whilst the availability of VR, FTRS and retained-in-Service-at-lower-rank aircrew might help Binnsworth dig themselves out of the manning shortfall they've got themselves into, in general most 'real' regulars aren't very happy with the idea. As someone so rightly said, the better solution is to treat existing aircrew to lifestyles and conditions which will encourage them to stay, not leave.

But the concept of 'sponsored reservists' fills many with utter contempt. These people would be contractor-sourced civilians flying civil-owned aircraft in military roles on military tasks. Funny - the Brizzle Futurama people refer to them as 'sponsored reservists' - if it was Biafra they'd be called 'mercenaries'! But at least I heard a colleague bending the ear of a potential FSTA primary service provider at RIAT about this and letting him know in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't, under any circumstances, be prepared to work alongside some part-time mercenary dabbling with military flying on his days off from the airlines!!

Instead of finding ever more desperate short-term solutions, Binnsworth inmates need to tackle the problem at source and to recruit and retain sufficient regular aircrew to avoid any such need for Dad's Airforce aircrew!! Why, for example, do we turn away good chaps who can hold JAA Class 1 medicals, but who the quacks reject because they can't pass Eurofighter-standard eyesight or obscure anthropometric based functional reach requirements. They'd probably be quite capable of filling C130J, FSTA, C-17, VC10, Nimrod, E3, 125, 146, Astor etc etc seats....... Perhaps if someone fails the RAF entry medical but is then assessed by a RAF AME to JAA Class 1 standards, they should be recruited with a 'ME-only' limitation??

[A and C]

Beagle makes a lot of sence the tax payer has spent a lot of money training pilots and the forces must offer a package that will retain them.
However i think that VR pilots have a lot to offer if the thing is run along the lines of the american system.
Remember that the military tends to be a very consevative instution and these pilots have a lot to bring to the party ,a more diverse work force will help no end in improving work practices for both the military and the civil employer.

[EESDL]

It's been touched on earlier, and duly ignored.......
Part-timers, who happen to be employed with the airlines, are a pain in the **** to programme.
This only causes extra blah and paperwork for those involved, with availability only good for the 'nicer' trips.
There are exceptions of course, and their contribution is highly regarded...but the guys taking the pi55 know who they are.

WE ARE NOT SHORT OF M-E PILOTS (could be, but not yet)
Sorry for shouting but restricting part-timers to M-E work (due to trg costs/ability/med cat) will only send another wrong message to the front line..

Mind you, they are probably more 'current' than 'K' Route Queens at the moment. So maintaining a suitable level of skill would not be a problem. Could part-timers cope with a 'Klassic' cockpit? :-) We all know that Bliar is 'dumbing-down', reducing short-term costs, so it could be easier to change the law than one might think.

Hey, what about contracting out all of our AT work, and let the Pongoes walk to Fungi, Balkans etc etc.

Act of Parliament, Insurance, FTL, Commitment, Esprit de Corp.

It's a cultural thing, the Septics regard their reservists/part-timers in a totally different way to how we regard ours. They fly all sorts of modern, capable kit, but then again, the Septics have 'given' them the 'J' for keeps!!

[TimC]

Great idea with the limited med cat for people who can't meet the requirements for something pointy!

Is there any realistic chance of something like that being implemented? I got excellent scores for pilot, nav and aircrew at OASC, but I'm 1mm too long in the leg and my eyesight isn't quite good enough. Ok, so I failed the officer bit as well, but I reckon I'd crack that now :D.

[Human Factor]

Never realised it was such an emotive subject!! :eek:

[EESDL]

Well...you do now!!