"I learnt about flying training from that!"

[Cooperman]

'Wings Course' was an excellent thread but is now deceased. For those wishing to offer advice to students, instructors OR whatever then here you go.

This thread is for those who feel that there is no such thing as a stupid question and for all those who are willing to offer advice on aviation.


Moosa Aswayita!

[oldpinger]

First bit of advice,
Never eat anything bigger than your head!


Alright, before people get the poops,
This little gem happened to me last Friday afternoon;

Sortie without a Bloggs (rare) doing some general stuff, preparing for later teaching sorties and I came to the realisation that I was about 30 seconds behind the aircraft, in fact I would have failed a student for how C#$P I was flying. Decided to knock it on the head and rtb. It was only after land on when I realised how totally knackered I was- busy week lots of flying. With 20/20 hindsight I should never have launched.

I guess the advice to any 'students' out there- NEVER go flying on a intstructional sortie unless you're feeling up to it- because you sure as #$%& won't fly very well and worse case, arrive with your instructor at the scene of the crash. With any luck your instructor should respect your decision.

However-standing by for the 'Harden up and dry your eyes princess' posts......
:rolleyes:

[Cooperman]

oldpinger, good point.
I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if anyone criticises your advice. Whilst pushing guys is sometimes a good thing to discover their potential, I think it's generally accepted that most people don't learn a thing when under too much pressure - self-induced or otherwise.

We should be encouraged and, indeed, encourage others to stick our hands up and say 'enough is enough - I'm not up to it'. However, there are a few people out there who don't like this approach as they fear that some will take advantage. In my experience it becomes apparent very quickly who isn't pulling their weight and abusing what I'd call basic CRM.


Moosa Aswayita! ;)

[CleanScope]

I was once tasked to fly with a student, "Because of the weather", but actualy, we felt it was better to fly this sortie dual (Even though it was suposed to be solo!) It was just as well we did!!

Bloggs did a fine job getting airborne, with his quiet (Ghost) instructor, and all went well until we almost "Invaded" Irish airspace!! The "Unseen Hand" took control, and avoided the dipolmatic incident.

Shortly thereafter, whilst engaged in mortal Aerial Combat, we found ourselves in a "Flat Scissor", my "man" found the ultimate trick, fly into cloud, continue the scissor, and that way your opponent can't see how well you're doing!! Again, the unseen hand intervened, stopped the fight, and we continued.......

We'd had about enough fun so we went home. Break to land, not too tricky for this stage of the course.....you would think.

Bang! on with the "g", round we go, Oops, too high, still, seen worse (Done Worse!), Ah, very high.....tip in (Raging Tightener), Idle (Still too fast), Steep.....Hmmmm, I'll let this go just a bit, only to prove the point..... Overshoot, Overbank (Idle)....Sink...Buffet....Unseen Hand, becomes Very Seen!, Full Power.......Tickle buffet, think about Yellow/Black Handle! Watch Mess carpark get very big.......mighty Adour saves the day!!!!

Total calm. "OK Bloggs, let's try that again" Unseen hand flies back to "Initial" and passes control. Bloggs repeats previous demonstration perfectly! The only difference being I took control earlier!! The unseen hand Landed the jet!!

Lessons: Take control earlier rather than later in the landing phase!!

Don't use this area to "Make a point"

This sortie should have been terminated, after the BFM buffoonery!!!

The student did get the oppotunity to explore other career fields, hence he will probably live a full and happy life!

Live long and prosper......

I certainly learnt about instructing from that. Incidentally, Cooperman was the brand new CGI at the time......

Clean Scope

:eek

[AllTrimDoubt]

For all Bloggses:

Remember, the aeroplane flies on Bernoulli's principles, not Marconi's... :D

[Art Field]

This one is those who show Bloggs the way. OCU with no aircraft so borrows squadron Jets. In early to fly 2 ship formation (Tankers), aircraft after aircraft falls down, Boss who gave aircraft away (not QFI)negotiates Jet in late afternoon, QFI's refuse to authorise as studes and staff now knackered, Boss orders airbourne, QFI's refuse again to authorise so Boss does. Is this legal? Did we get airborne, did we hell!

[mr ripley]

Less than a month out of the Waterfront and teaching Spinning 2 (how to recover from a full spin) to a stude for the first time.

Revision OK, get to bit where stude should show me that he has learnt the recovery.

Stude sort of mumbles and lets go of the controls.

Aircraft rapidly goes incipient.

Thinks do I move controls back to pro-spin before recovery or just go for recovery. Go for latter.

Aircraft recovers extremely close to abandon height.

Head says lets go home.

Mouth says: not quite right, let me show you again.

Demo recovery to stude. Stude so impressed that he chucks up.

Then go home.

Lessons:
1 Take care with spinning, its how most military light aircraft crash.
2 As in previous post, not an area to allow stude to make mistake.
3 So hold on tight to those controls and only allow them to move in the direction that CFS intended.

mr ripley

ps Think stude may be FO for Air 2000. If so best wishes and good luck (not meant sarcasticly)

[Dean_Cross]

I think this is fine thread...almost like silk.

It is always good to have that extra QFI input, afterall tests are almost never done with primary instructors (well not in the UAS system anyway!) and although they shouldn't, preferances vary. It is nice to have a wealth of opinion on which to draw when making those sweaty FHT decisions.

..and to quote some flight safety circular..

"Learn from the mistakes of others, you won't live long enough to make them all yourself." Fair point, well presented.

[Cooperman]

AllTrimDoubt,
wise words. But why is it that whenever instructors act as 'Bloggs' they often go completely over the top, making errors that are totally unrealistic. Being a good Bloggs is a skill in itself and I've witnessed some outstandingly good (and bad) ones.

I recall one guy (now airlines) who, when acting as the 'solo' Bloggs while the 'stude' instructor supervised him on the wing, would deliberately ridge-clip to see if it was noticed. Fine in itself but he would fly almost the whole sortie at about 100'! Fun had nothing to do with it of course. It would be hard enough to see him let alone gauge his msd.

He would then 'simulate' the student leading into the cct and forget to make any R/T calls whatsoever, blasting through initials into a full cct and then blowing through the other side, whilst the stude instructor struggled to keep up. Dolphin guys of '95 will recall these antics no doubt.

The good thing though is that when you DO fly with the 'real thing' you are pleasantly surprised. Then, as CleanScope recounts, you get bitten! Great sortie, hit both tgts, well on top of the game and then he/she tries to kill you in the cct.

I know, 'cos that was me during training -great sortie, hit both tgts, shut the HP cock on the break...doh! Fortunately the until now extremely under-aroused QFI in the boot sprung into action and got the donk going again just in time to make a perfect landing....then he overshot! Why? Can't explain it. Why did I stop cock the donk? Can't explain it although that morning I was in the sim doing lots of relights!

The moral? Anything can happen. What did I learn? That I am just as susceptible to switching off as anyone else.

Moosa Aswayita! :D

[mkeane]

Late 80s, CFS(H)

I was staff instructor acting as Bloggs on Engine Off Landings "giveback" - deadstick to my plank friends.

Bloggs says " enter auto when you think you'll make the field" so I enter far too soon and instead of bringing this to my attention as briefed he closed the throttle!! he quickly realised his error but as restoring of the throttle in flight is prohibited he looked at me and said "oops, sorry" AAARGH! Droop Nr, go for it and just make it over the airfield boundary - good old 'whistling chicken leg' ATC pipes up "the engine off area is 200m to your front" I say "departing and QSY". Beer never tasted better. Thanks Rodger - you were a good stude, honest! ;)

[CleanScope]

Cooperman,

You are Sooooo Sweet, I'm going to Blub!!!!

By the way, how are the "Black Bugs?", still, only a month or so and it will be back to snow!

Are you a HUD Cripple yet? and are you PMC?

Only Joking!!!,(PS: Kick the little blonde AD mate in the arse!! I'm sure he's due one!)

Clean Scope :D

[Cooperman]

CleanScope, I don't have a cat so I kick him every day!

Still no black bugs to speak of but the dragonflies are definately four-engined.

HUD cripple, me, in a shiny new H***, with my reputation? VV or not VV, that is the question. What was the thread again?

Oh yes. If in doubt - give the stude a demo. Because if you don't, he'll f*** it up anyway and THEN you'll have to do the demo and THEN he has to have a go. The real reason is if you don't you get b***** all hands on!

CleanScope, if only Mr G was 'ere I would jump at the old PMC bit....right?

And don't call me sweet, not good for the image what.


Moosa Aswayita! ;)

[Ray Dar]

Never think you know all of Bloggsy's tricks. After doing a particular sequence more than a couple of times I thought I had the typical bloggs f@#k*ps sorted. After he does something completely different and we managed to recover without bending the aircraft and with v. few Nr, I ask, "so why did you do that bloggs ?", he replies, "F&^k knows, your'e the instructor, you tell me sir !". Good come back bloggs !

Seriously, my best advise is to always expect bloggs to do the unexpected.....

Oldpinger.......who's that ?

[Poison Arrow]

My axxe hurts. Thanks.

[oldpinger]

Re: the "always expect the unexpected" the unexpected happened today!! heartily agree!

Found another way for a bloggs to try to bend an aircraft- bless em! :rolleyes:
however, as my stude was a tad worried he would get in the poo,
VERY important message for the students- Don't get too stressed when something goes wrong with an exercise and the a/c gets slightly bent- more often than not it's not your fault. (the instructor probably should have taken over)Anyway, if you knew how to do it first time instructors would be out of a job...

Worst things happen at sea! :D