Loss of Licence Insurance

[Robbo0885]

Hi all. Just a quickie. My eyesight is just within the initial limits for proffesional medical (class 1 or 2, i can never remember) but it has been changing every 2 years for the last 8. I am 22, and apparently eyesight starts to stabilise around mid twenties. So far, for the last year and a hlaf, there has been no change. However, I am worried that a small change in future could scupper my plans at pro flying.

Someone mentioned to me loss of medical insurance, is there such a thing? And would it cover me if i shelled out 100k on an integrated flying course only for my eyesight to worsen?

Anyone who knows anything about htis, or has any advice, I would be grateful to hear from you.

Thanks all.

[Martin1234]

Once you got your initial class 1 medical, you will find that the requirements for renewals are less stringent. Check JAR-FCL 3 for the requirements for both initial and renewal standards.

Yes, there are loss of (medical) licence insurances. Just do a search and you should find more information.

[alanmtc]

Hello,

Can anyone advise on loss of medical insurace. I have my JAA class 1, and am about to sign for a whopping loan to allow me to do my training!

My fear - what if something happens to me, my eyesight, my hearing!!! and I loose my JAA class 1!

Is there an insurance you can buy??

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Thomas coupling]

Several companies, but the best is Haywards Aviation of London. Not cheap, but essential and massive peace of mind. I've claimed recently with no probs whatsoever. They do what they say on the tin.

[n90bar]

BALPA do a good policy - fixed price per £10000 cover, per month. See their website for details.

[speedsalive]

Dear friend... juz cheking on ya, how u doing now?

[sollas]

Hi,

I'm not a doctor, but have you tried hoppi ear candles? They can help sook goo out of your ears by vaccum and is a gentle non invasive way to do it. I know people who have had their ears syringed that now use this instead.

Might be worth trying?

Hope you find a solution soon.

[Mac the Knife]

"I don't want to try grommets or anything as it can damage your hearing"

Whatever gave you that idea? I presume that they woulld be inserted by an ENT specialist rather than one of the neighbors.

But untreated chronic secretory otitis media (CSOM) certainly will!

:ok:

PS: Have you tried the Otovent system?

[Fluffer]

Greetings

I am European (Belgium), and hold a FAA license, justed turned 40 and am flying in Africa.

Can someone please suggest a reputable insurance company (worldwide) for Loss Of License Insurance?

Thanks in advance

F

[alanmtc]

i have my loss of license insurance with Hiscox Global Flying. Fairly easy to deal with.

[eliasg17]

Hello all!
I know that this question might have been answered in other threads but i couldnt find a similar thread.
How hard is it to lose your medical class 1?
How can you lose it?
What do they test you at the medical class 1 examination?
thanks:ok:

[INNflight]

Get up, prepare for going to work, fall down the stairs and break your leg seriously.

Medical gone :eek: :ouch:

[AMEandPPL]

How can you lose it?

By changing status from being "FIT TO FLY" to "UNFIT TO FLY".
Thousands of different ways to do that.
Ask specific questions, and answers will be forthcoming.

[bucket_and_spade]

All requirements/tests for the Class I are on the CAA's website - have a dig around.

[Mickey Kaye]

Very easy for some - Healthy lifestyle and all

Very difficult for others - Drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, obese

[AMEandPPL]

drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, obese

These attributes can be found in abundance, regrettably even in the class 1 holding population !

[eliasg17]

Get up, prepare for going to work, fall down the stairs and break your leg seriously.

Medical gone http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/eek.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/shiner.gif
Is this true?
I guess if you have a healthy lifestyle and dont have an accident,everything will be ok...

[AMEandPPL]

Is this true?

Yes, surprise surprise, if you "seriously break your leg" then you are deemed to be unfit to fly an aeroplane !

The good news is that a broken leg will eventually heal . . . . . . hence the origin of the phrase : "TEMPORARILY UNFIT" - which means exactly what it says.

[Canada Goose]

Blood pressure is a common cause. I nearly failed exactly 12 months ago as my BP was about 158, just under the 160 limit. For me though, I know this is not a true reflection of my normal BP and I was able to show the doc regular records of my BP which is normally around 135 !

CG !

P.S. Just let my Class 1 lapse to Class 2 priviledges as I am not flying commercially !! Not suer I can be bothered to renew iot any time soon !!

[eliasg17]

http://static.pprune.org/images/icons//icon8.gif Duh, duh . . . . . . . . ! !

Dont have to get all angry about it...I am new in this aviation world,and seriously dont know that many stuff like you guys know...anyway,thanks for the replies:ok:

[Jazzy78910]

I've heard this phrase used to describe how most D/AMEs approach class 1 medicals:

Their aim is to keep you flying as long as possible. They are out to do everything they can to pass you, not fail you.

Jazz

[RTN11]

I think once you get the medical you've overcome a lot of hurdles like eyesight requirements, health functioning kidneys and so on.

Surely the easiest way to lose a medical would be something affecting your eyes, or your hearing?

[AMEandPPL]

their aim is to keep you flying as long as possible. They are out to do everything they can to pass you, not fail you

So true . . . . . . wish this could be said much more often.

Needless to say, exactly the same here as it is over there.

[AMEandCPL]

Actually, the most common reason for loss of medical in the UK is cardiovascular disease. Ho do you reduce the risk? Lose weight, don't smoke, exercise regularly, and get you blood pressure and cholesterol under control.

[obgraham]

EliasG, you're young and "new to this stuff", so here:

To get your initial Class I, you will pass if you are healthy. There are a number of medical conditions which will exclude your passing. Most of them relate to vision, neurological conditions, and a long list of chronic diseases which are fortunately not that common. Psychiatric conditions, addiction to drugs or alcohol, etc., are common causes of failure.

There are also a number of less severe or temporary conditions, for which you need to have proper treatment, then they re-evaluate you and if you then pass, you're good to go. Obviously, if you have a broken right arm you will not pass, but when it's healed you will.

At your age 17 it is hard to grasp the idea of illness. Most young folks, if they have not had much medical history by your age, will find initial passing not that tough.

Keeping that medical requires that you keep your health. As we get older, the most common causes of poor health involve weight, blood pressure, smoking, and drugs and alcohol. Best not to let any of those things get out of control. These days a big problem is the number of people taking psychoactive drugs: for depression, ADD, or whatever. Some authorities will approve in some such cases, many will never approve.

And remember, the important thing will always be what the authorities think of your health, not whether you yourself think you're okay to fly.

So it's like what others have posted. Stay healthy, and if you wish to fly for a living, don't allow any of those things to get out of control.

Graham MD

[point8six]

Sadly I have known quite a few pilots that have died from various problems, despite being apparently very fit, healthy and undergone regular (6-monthly) aviation medicals, including E.C.G.s. Some of them were suicides, with no physical problems - just mental ones.
As a profession, our regular check-ups must help "nipping it in the bud" before a sympton becomes life threatening, but even then "when your time is up".........!
Best advice is given by the medical professionals - take it.:ok:

[eliasg17]

Thankyou all for your replies!!!:ok::)

[gingernut]

I think its a valid concern eliasg, loss of a medical is the one thing that affects your ability to fly, (and your career, and ability to pay the bills etc),that is outside your control.

Following obs/ame's advice won't get you far wrong.

[robhoworth]

Live a healthy lifestyle. :=
Exercise regularly, a have a balanced diet, maintain a good weight in ratio with your height. Being too overweight and obese can cause Diabetis then your grounded. The medical is thorough, BP, ECG circulation, lung function, hearing, sight, blood & urine. They poke your stomach aswell dont know what theyre looking for there?
Drink in moderation cut smoking out as this will reduce circulation and lung function.

Thing is you can do the above but the pilots I fly with dont seem to worry. They drink lots and are overweight. So I wouldnt worry too much you could go out and get knocked down tomorrow.....

[gingernut]

They poke your stomach aswell dont know what theyre looking for there?

Inspection, palpation, percussion and ascultation of the abdomen is one of those wonderful things that makes doctors (and other health care professionals) appear like some sort of wonderful figure, with god-given powers to detect and cure disease and misery.

Rarely does it detect any abnormalities, but we have to do it to stop getting sued and to make the patient feel better.

Having said that, we do sometimes find the odd prince amongst the frogs we have to kiss.:)

[eliasg17]

What happens if you lose your medical at about 25 years old and you are in a company,are there any insurance companies that will back you up in case of lose of medical?

[cpt]

Hello all,

I am looking for an insurance company covering the loss of licence risk (for medical reason)
Does somebody has an idea ?
Thanks.

[Seat1APlease]

It is going to depend on where you live/work, and which authority issues your licence/medical. The insurance company base premiums on risk and without knowing that information your question is difficult to answer.

Some of the UK companies tailor policies for CAA/JAA and may not wish to cover other licence holders.

[cpt]

Actually, I'm rather looking for a group insurance, covering a team of various nationality licenced pilots....outside Europe.

[Blinkz]

Yes you can get LoL insurance from a number of different sources. BALPA is one, they offer a loss of medical for training fees which then becomes a LoL insurance once you actually get a job. Also don't just think about it for whilst you have debt, you should have it for the whole of your career, you could lose your medical at anytime and lose your main salary!

[Blinkz]

Its not their business how you pay for your training, so no it doesn't matter not having a loan in your name. IF you loose your licence on medical grounds then you will get back the sum you insured for the cost of your training.

Off topic slightly, but take a long hard look at spending the kind of money your thinking about for an integrated scheme in the current aviation climate, especially if your parents mortgage is going to be on the line if you can't meet repayments when you don't get a job at the end of it. Its a much more sensible idea to go modular and pay as you go, and not having such a mountain of debt. I'm an FO for one of the best paying airlines in Europe and even I don't find it comfortable having the debt of an integrated course on top of me, think about what it would be like with no job!!!

[TLBird]

Hello
I know you've probably heard it all before but modular is a pretty good way to go to. I chose to do long distance learning with Bristol groudschool and they were fantastic. At least I was still earning whilst learning. I did my ppl just before sept 11th and the whole thing till finish took 3 years. I worked as cabin crew for the full duration in the charter sector. After I finished the ATPL exams I took upaid leave during the winter and completed my CPL/hour building in the states,worked for the summer build up funds again.then took unpaid leavethe following winter and did the IR at Bristol flying center.
I got a job an airline job flying 4 weeks after I finished my IR and am still working for an airline now 3years later and still struggle to pay of my debts whilst on a very good wage and a pretty humble lifestlye.
I just wanted you to see that things can work out just as well going the modular route, freinds of mine that did the intergrated route did'nt get jobs until about a year after passing the IR.

Hope it helped a little bit? But whatever way you do it its dam expensive but I love my job and its an investment in my future:O

[gadude]

Very ineresting topic, In adition to it, as i didnt quiet got that out off the tread so far, can i also insure myself for losing my class one and than get cover my income??

I have an income protection insurance incase off an accidant. (wich was very hard to get due to the nature off my job).wich start paying after 2 weeks after the accidant.
up to 2 years, after that I am on my own.

cheers :ok:

[B747-800]

and who speaks french?

[Zinocchio]

that's true but they sent to me an email in english with all details . As i said looks everything correct and very good insurance but i'd like to know if someone has already contracted any insurance whit them and of course wellcome any other suggestion!!

[underwriter]

The EU is soon bringing in a new directive saying Insurers cannot discriminate against aomen who are pregnant: the UK is adding this into the Sex Discrimination Act 1975.
Could anyone advise me of how pregnancy affects professional female pilots.
At what stage of pregnancy would a pilot stop flying? Are medical checks carried out again before flying is resumed? How long after birth is one allowed to fly again?
Is this timetable manadatory or suggested?

I hope what I am trying to ascertain is clear and thank you in advance for your help. Your answers will help influence how we have to change our LOL wording

[Flyin'Dutch']

Underwriter,

There is a difference between insurance acceptability and regulations.

For commercial pilots flying airliners there are periods in which they can, from a regulatory point of view, fly.

However most airlines will ground pregnant pilots as soon as the pregnancy is declared. The EU directives on cosmic radiation stipulate that the least achievable exposure should be strived for; that means no flying.

(BTW no evidence that exposure on flights leads to birth or baby problems but as the cosmic radiation is in principle a stochastic risk they decide to interpret it that way)

From a regulatory point of view people can start flying again 4 weeks post partum, providing no complications etc etc.

[underwriter]

Thanks for the information.Certainly gives me something to start with.
Not allowed to risk assess these days: Big Brother has dictated!

[jonnyhock]

Hi, can anyone point me in the direction of an insurer that will insure for the loss of class 1 medical? The only ones ive been able to find offer general cover in the event of terminal illness etc??

thanks in advance

[C172 Hawk XP]

Just type the phrase "loss of licence insurance" into Google, and you'll come up with a number to investigate and choose from. I noticed one arranged through IFALPA, and another professional-looking company called Towergate Hall & Clarke (assuming you are in UK).
Sorry, no point in posting links to them; they will just be deleted.

[underwriter]

Hi,
A few of us in the London Market write LOL, myself included, but most shy away from individual cover. Agree with the previous answer and suggest you try IFALPA. I used to Underwrite the scheme and it is now down by an ex colleague of mine: a damn good chap he is to!

[eliasg17]

Hello!
I wanted to ask some questions.When and if i get my class 1 medical,what do i need to do to get loss of licence insurance?What are the requirements?Is it possible?And if yes,how much will i have to pay and how much will they give me if i lose my licence?:ok:

[eliasg17]

Doesnt anyone know?Anyone?:)

[eliasg17]

Hello!
I jsut wanted to ask some things about the medical.
I have heard that if you have cancer,diabetes or have a serious accident,exceed blood pressure limits,bad eyesight/hearing you lose your licence because you fail your medical.This is true right?So,if someone looses there medical and licence for the above reasons and he overcomes them(gets well)can he do a renewal and get his licence back?Any advice on what do to before the renewal?What do they do?Check you like the 1st time?Or is it a simple test?
Bye:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Yes, for certain medical problems a medical examination may be failed, or a holder will suffer a medical problem and his/her licence will be withdrawn. However, some medical problems can be treated to the satisfaction of the medical authorities so that a licence may be renewed.

Standard renewal examinations are not so prolonged or so detailed as the initial medical.

That's a basic answer but the whole subject is somewhat complex..

[eliasg17]

Thankyou for your answers.:)
Is it easy to lose your medical?And i asked on another thread,about insurances...Do they cover you if you lose your medical(licence)?Hoiw much do you pay and how much will they give you?And do you have to be employed with an airline to get insurance?
Bye
PS excuse me for my english.

[Big_Slick]

I have heard of this, but can't find any information. What if a professional pilot loses thier medical. Is there insurance a pilot can carry against just such a thing.

[Thomas coupling]

Be very very careful about handing over serious money for L.O.L.

Very very few pilots lose their licence. In fact the figure is approx 2% over the last 20 years.
The reason for this is that the CAA will only take your licence away from you for terminal illnesses or ailments that prevent you EVER flying again.
98% of licences are SUSPENDED by the CAA for an indetermined time.

As a consequence you WILL NOT RECEIVE YOUR LOL unless the job description annotated on your insurance is very specific. If for instance it simply says: pilot or commercial pilot or helicopter pilot etc etc, you will not be able to claim.

The reason being, is that the CAA have no way of really knowing whether you 'may' ever fly again in these 98% of cases, so they suspend the licence indefinately....and the insurance company will not pay out as a consequence.

This practice is rife in the industry. Heart attacks, broken backs, cancer even! Unless or until the diagnosis is terminal or the medical condition prevents you from physically flying again...you're not covered.

Be careful out there :(

[tolisshow]

is insurance mandatory for a professional pilot?the reason i ask for,is because i have heard that many airlines provide massive insurances to their staff.