How many Blunties does it take to change a ...

[TheSeeFarShadow]

...Operational Det into a RGF circus.. .. .I want out, (prepare for rant), all it took was an Operation detachment some where sunny. Maybe I'm the only aircrew to notice that the Royal Air Force, or maybe the Royal Ground Force, is run by empire building "what's a Tristar/Nimrod/VC-10/Herc" circus. Yes, so that's laid it on the table, you know where I am.. . I am completely appalled by the attitude of 'supporting' blunties. I came here with an open mind. Yes, I've been on many single type dets, but does it really take SO many 'support personnel' to support themselves. I'm not talking about the techies, who work harder than we do, it's the 'hangers on'. Maybe they're now being scaled down, but there are still PTI(s), MT drivers, a dozen Plods, Padre(s), Movers, Medics and Admin Guru's friends (if he has any) and a SWO who are not needed. I'm sure they have friends and families in the UK to go home to instead of being OOA. In these days of the Armed Forces being overstretched, why overstretch them needlessly. .. . The Royal Air Force remain the Royal AIR Force because we are here to support the aircraft and aircrew, we are not the "Tactical 'I'm important' Wing" or "Joint Services 'I'm more important than you' Unit". You don't need to know what we do or do not do, you just need to know that the length of sideburns don't matter in the big scheme of things and that "it's easy for some, lying in the sun all day" is not valid if you're only here to stitch people with you're merry "no, put your ID in my hand" *****.. .. .I've enjoyed being in the RAF, but now, well what can I say, the emphasis is all wrong. This is not a bitter and twisted FS, this is a FS who wants to stay in the RAF, A FS who is keen to do the job, but a FS who has had enough. I fear I'm not alone.. .. .Someone turn the lights out.. .. .Adios

[Mr C Hinecap]

So, MT Drivers not needed out there - going to re-fuel the ac by yourself? MT might get the brown smelly end of the stick all the time, but just accept the guys do a job that is needed - A Class Drivers are needed, big style. Ignorance is bliss is it not. The lads have one of the shortest turn round times at the mo, and not through choice - I'd rather not be sitting where they are right now - in there before the Marines etc - find a softer target. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />

[TheSeeFarShadow]

SS,. .Fine, but in the land of hire cars (sorry white and green fleets) does it really take 20 of them. . .. .TSFS

[Mr C Hinecap]

It might not take 20 of them, but I'm sure they didn't ask to go there - they have families too - and there is plenty for them to do back at home. Also, do the crews get themselves across the expanse of pan to their ac? Rules like duty time & responsibility for your people come into this, like not being allowed to drive if your duty time is over 12 hrs - those hard working techies need support too. I'm not defending poor manning plots, but do the hire cars include HGVs and bowsers? Let me know - it would make life easier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

[Blacksheep]

The Royal Air Force is full of slackers who don't do anything useful, I learned that on day one. The problem is, I never met one of them; they must be too good at hiding I suppose. . .. .**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema

[Hertz Van Rental]

So how come aircrew can do 16, sometimes 19 hr duty days and drivers can only do 12? Just asking like.

[MrBernoulli]

Nobody, absolutely nobody, has been able to tell me why every blunt Tom, ******** and Harry had a vehicle in Seeb when I was last there ....... but the aircrew still had to cadge a lift to meet their operational sorties!. .. .SS, the ONLY reason blunties 'exist' is to support. The ONLY reason anyone is in Seeb is to ensure that the pointy aircraft deliver their exploding bits on targets. The operational sqns have never been found wanting in Seeb but the blunts have failed at every hurdle.. .. .'Us' and 'them' arguments can only be dealt with sensibly when blunties realise where they are in the pyramid/food chain.

[Cpl Plod]

TheSeeFarShadow . .. .Are you tired (brings hands up to face and rubs eyes). Nice rant, someone has obviously wound you up, but do you really think the pointy thinks could do their job without ground support.. .. .Don’t want to start the aircrew V the rest discussion again, I think it’s been covered enough and most trades acknowledge that their job is to assist in keeping the planes in the air.. .. .I totally agree with you, blunties are a total waste of time on Det’s and should all be sent home ASAP (PMA please note). They leave their families and friends and swan off to foreign lands for 4 months (or longer) at a time and their sole intention is to p!$$ off aircrew.. .. .In my experience of Det’s the following blunties had no reason for being there:. .. .Adminers (everyone’s favourite on these pages) – All they do is sort out pay, allowances, aircrew in flt catering (some Det’s), travel arrangements, compassionate cases, make local currency available.. .. .Cooks (you can’t chef an egg can you!) – All they do is cook food, what a waste of time.. .. .MT – Swan about all day, sorting out hire vehicles, making sure people have the required local driving paperwork, get vehicles repaired, driving bowsers, driving big trucks full of stuff from place to place.. .. .Movers – Keep jumping on and off nice clean transport aircraft unloading / loading freight, passengers.. .. .Techies (general – non aircraft related) – so many different trades fixing things you don’t need on Det, generators, computers, air conditioners, anything electrical, the list goes on.. .. .Medics – Why on earth do we need medical support on Det, the local Doc’s all speak perfect English, are really friendly, know all of the vagaries of aircrew medicine and their equipment is all clean.. .. .Rock’s – Bimbling around carrying their various weapons, NBC sentry equipment, Rapier, never had a Det attacked, why bother.. .. .Posties – Getting the post through (personal and official), can’t be that hard (Bloody Army for Gods sake, who invited them to our Det).. .. .Suppliers – Surely if we need anything on Det we could just use the Amex card, obviously you can buy jet engines, flying suits, wiggly amps etc in the local market . .. .PTI’s – They provided people with things to do on their down time, mini-expeds, never have any secondary duties.. .. .Coppers (a personal favourite) – Physical security of Det (with Rock’s, it’s that teamwork thingy), Computer Security, Document Security, liaison with other policing agencies (V V useful for getting aircrew assets out of pokey so they can man the pointy things), ensuring off base places (if any) are safe to visit, Oh and they also do police work (making sure Det personnel don’t beat the crap out of each other or steal everything in sight (do not even think that aircrew don’t do these things – I know you would be wrong)).. .. .As for the other braches of the military, why are they there at all. I remember the pride I felt in ’82 watching the Nimrod crew yomping into Stanley, the elation of watching the ALM’s raising the Union Flag over the embassy in Kuwait in ’91 and the satisfaction of seeing ** Sqn aircrew marching into Kosovo.. .. .Do your job and let us do ours, we’re there to support you so let us. Remember that if the rules & regs seem petty, we don’t make them, they come down from on high (must be AVM PTI’s, AM Suppliers and ACM Cooks).. .. .PS. If the crews didn’t have enough vehicles, do you not think the UK based planners or sqn recce / advance party should take some of the blame?. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 09:35: Message edited by: Cpl Plod ]</small>

[Emerson Cahooners]

JHFNI - 'nuff said!. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[D-IFF_ident]

I went to a briefing by fast jet aircrew yesterday. It was directed mostly at REMFs who the FJ chaps would like to see being more flexible and supportive. But it was pitched to read 'please let's all help each other'. The briefing was 90% well presented and 10% garbage.. .. .There was the usual fobbing-off of the wrong aircraft types on the slides and mis-quoting mission packages that most of the groundcrew weren't expected to understand. That's probably to be expected. But when the roles of other aircraft types in theatre were entirely misrepresented the 10 percentile of garbage came out. End result? The division of groundcrew v aircrew now further divided into groundcrew v FJ v ME.. .. .We are not all here to support the aircrew and the aircraft. We are all here to support the aircraft.. .. .We need to stop the point scoring and get on with our jobs. No one part of the machine is any more or less important than the next.. .. .Now, someone bring me a bacon sandwich.... . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 13:29: Message edited by: D-IFF_ident ]</small>

[Catt]

And no comment from Admin Guru?!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Call me a dull, superfluous, over-established and expensive bluntie, but I was told that the RAF was about projection of Air Power. We all have a role to play, whether its cooking the breakfasts, counting the blankets, issuing the imprests or pressing the "Hose in/Hose out" button. Having had the honour of working in the SH world for a few years, I can at least take solace from the fact that there are elements of the RAF aircrew fraternity that truly value 'bluntie' support in the projection of Air Power. Anyone who bangs on about the 'pecking order' or 'food chain', in my opinion, has lowered himself to the level of those he is slagging-off.. .. .PS. Don't see many aircrew hanging around on the ground in Kabul. Allegedly.. . . . <small>[ 29 March 2002, 17:31: Message edited by: Whipping Boy's SATCO ]</small>

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Emerson. .. .You are in JHFNI you f()ckwit; I think you mean HQ JHFNI. But what would you do without them? Staff your own Jt Issues (Or would you like to continue for another 10 yrs ignorant of NISOPs etc)/Organise your own tasking/Provide your own SHFNI Ops staff/Sort out your own duties when you haven't enough people/Continue to ignore the Comd Chain/Rearrange the tasklines yourselves when there aren't enough cabs/people to go round +++++++. .. .Come up and see me make me smile.. .. .HPT

[bluntie]

Oh what a surprise, another 'lets slag of the'bluntie's' thread. How boring!. I thought that we were all on the same side. Obviously not in some people's view.. .We all have a job to do and it might be nice if we all gone together and did it. (Or is that too radical!).. .I'm off to read something far more interesting.

[ORAC]

Just to lighten the mood and in response to the name of the thread. The following is the content of the last thread on the same subject. Apologises to the authors of the individual responses for the removal of their names and details - edited for length.. .. .How many Blunties does it take to replace a light bulb? …......... .. .One ACM to notice it's dark, and tell the AM;. .. .One AM to request the AVM commission a study into the reason why it has gone dark;. .. .One AVM to instruct the Gp Capt to make sure that the results of the study match what the ACM suggested in the first place;. .. .One Gp Capt to tell the Wg Cdr to initiate project 'Bulb Replace';. .. .One Wg Cdr to have a multi-disciplinary force of Sqn Ldrs drafted in to study the tenders received to fulfil project 'Bulb Replace';. .. .Three Sqn Ldrs to vet the tenders and compare with the 'in house' study for project 'Bulb Replace';. .. .OC DSF to instruct Tech Stores to issue materiel for project 'Bulb Replace';. .. .SNCO IC Tech Stores to tell an SAC to initiate project 'Bulb Replace';. .. .One Gp Capt, 2 Wg Cdrs and 4 Sqn Ldrs to conduct the inquiry into why project 'Bulb Replace' overran time and budget to the extent that the ACM did it himself 2 days after noticing it was dark. . .. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .Then took early retirement and went to become Senior Defence Adviser to British Defence Illumination, a wholly-owned subsidiary of BWoS!! . .. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. ....whose bulb would not in fact work, but would be marketed as fully NVG compatible. . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .A few weeks later, British Defence Illumination reveals that the coiled filaments in current MoD lightbulbs can possibly pick up classified conversations in offices; however, they have a bulb with integral filtering which will eliminate potential eavesdropping. The BritDefIll Senior Defence Advisor has lunch with his chums in Security and Procurement; hey presto, all military lightbulbs must in future contain voice filters and a contract for exclusive supply is placed with British Defence Illumination. Knighthoods all round follow!! . . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .Stop.. .Has illumination sphere, one of, been tested to +/- 30g? You see, you can't just put any sort of device into the receptacle. . . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .MOD PRESS RELEASE. .. .NEW BULB TO LIGHT THE WAY FOR FORCES INTO 21ST CENTURY. .. .Early concerns about the new EuroBulb’s suitability for military operations have been allayed following a series of tests by DERA. The Eurobulb has been put through an intensive three year cycle of tests and passed the "g" rating test with flying colours. Unfortunately, Health and Safety studies have revealed that under certain conditions the "bulb" can shatter. There have, therefore, been several slight changes to the unit's construction the main one being that the glass has been replaced with a titanium. Despite not conducting light as well as glass, titanium is bullet-proof and easier to paint (green being the preferred colour for field ops). The fact that the unit no longer gives off any light is seen as a small compromise given that the unit now costs a lot more and looks a lot more military.. .As this is a European project, with UK companies tendering for the glass section, the change to titanium will be welcomed by UK industry as this will put the price up considerably.. .Once the titanium sections are completed they will be flown (by outsize Airbus transport aircraft) to Southern France where the metal end cap will be fitted. There has been some debate over screw or bayonet fittings but a compromise was reached with a totally new fitment being developed. Whilst this will mean changing all the light fittings in UK military buildings this cost will be outweighed by the many new benefits the new "Eurobulb" will bring.. .A working group has recently formed with a view to providing the Eurobulb with an in-service name. Currently the name "Stuka" is favourite as this would seem to offend the Germans the least and the French the most.. .It is anticipated that the new Eurobulb will enter service with the UK military in late 2008. . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .FUNDING CRISIS HITS MOD'S EUROBULB. .The Minister of State for the Armed Forces, John Spellar MP announced today that the much delayed Eurobulb would be funded by a Public Private Partnership with the Al Fayed - Hindooja International Credit and Commerce Bank.. .. .Mr Spellar bored the pants off an audience at the Dagenham International Defence Lighting Show yesterday morning. He said:. .. ."An integral feature of our new approach to procurement is the use of Public Private Partnerships without taking a dogmatic approach. In Defence, we have identified three main PPP elements in addition to PFI. . .. ."First, outsourcing. The Competing for Quality initiative of the 1990s encompassed 160 areas of business, costing some £1.5 billion annually. About half of that business was outsourced. And, after all, we don't have to buy them uniforms and Servicemen and women are such an outdated concept.. .. ."The remainder was kept in-house, governed by Service Level Agreements. Under the Public Service Agreement, all of this business needs to be re-examined; and of course many of the original contracts are due to expire in the next year or two. It will not be acceptable automatically to roll over existing arrangements. . .. ."The Department must take a fresh look to see whether we can do better, perhaps by combining activities across business areas, thus delivering economies of scale. There is a lot to play for here - both for the private sector and for MOD's own workforce. But let me stress, outsourcing cannot be a substitute for good management, and that is why we have been working hard with our Trades Unions and Staff Associations to engender a culture of continuous improvement in MOD. . .. ."Secondly, strategic partnership between MOD and industry. MOD now recognises that, since long term relationships with certain suppliers are inevitable (especially in equipment support), these should be conducted in a co-operative manner wherever possible. Taut contracting and public accountability remain essential. But we must develop real relationships to deliver mutually beneficial outcomes. The Defence Procurement Agency and the Defence Logistic Organisation will be at the forefront of our efforts to transform our relations in the support area. . .. ."Thirdly, we must make better use of our irreducible spare capacity as encouraged to do so by the Government's policy of "Selling into Wider Markets". Where our own defence needs require us to maintain personnel, equipment or estate which is not utilised fully day to day in the nature of our business, we can and should generate additional income for the defence budget - normally with help from a marketing partner. . .. ."Let me now turn to PFI itself. Upon assuming lead Ministerial responsibility for PPP last summer, I re-endorsed the Department's approach to PFI, which is that, before the taxpayer's money can be invested in substantial new capital projects, PFI must be shown to be inappropriate, unworkable or uneconomic. As will be obvious from the scale of MOD's PFI programme - 28 signed deals, which have injected about £1 billion of private investment into defence, and some 80 other deals in train - we believe PFI to be a very important element of our business investment strategy. . .. ."Our approach is pragmatic. We do not intend to waste valuable resources - in Government or let me stress in the private sector - in pursuing PFI in every area for its own sake. We should be able to decide upon our best procurement strategy in-house, and perhaps by using advisers to help sound the market. Where PFI makes sense, we employ it. Where it is not the answer, we adopt alternative approaches - Passports anyone?". .. .14 members of the audience were rushed to hospital suffering from terminal boredom. The MOD's High 'G' Tungsten Top-Security Eurobulb is now expected to enter service in 2019.. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .I note with horror that there has been no mention of independent no-brake power supplies. This equipment is far too valuable to the defence of our realm to be reliant upon the national grid. Sorry boffins back to the drawing board and design a self-contained power source. Let not cost, size and original specification hinder your process.. .Finally, the name must be more in keeping with today's military caring and sharing ways. Stuka is a far too bold and manly word. Suggestions please.. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .Unfortunately, what no-one yet realises, is that as part of JAR harmonisation the CAA issued a Eurobulb compliance notice (AIC 345A/93 and Airworthiness notice #00123) in February 1995. . .It now transpires that the rest of the aviation community has been geared up to meet the compliance deadline of 01/01/01 for some time now.. .. .Apparently DERA has known of the Eurobulb for a while now but would you believe it just plum forgot about it. Anyway, the upshot is is that all RAF aircraft not fitted with the Eurobulb are deemed non-compliant and therefore are cleared for day VFR flights only with immediate effect.. .. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .TORIES ATTACK EUROBULB. .. .The Shadow Defence Secretary, former Capt Iain Dunkin Doughnut-Smith today launched an attack on Labour's proposed high-tech Eurobulb. . .. .The Eurobulb is the strongest, most secure light bulb in the world. The £6 Million PFI funded project has been beset by technical difficulties and funding problems. Mr Mandelson, the Minister without Portfolio, is currently heading a focus group aimed at getting the green tungsten carbide bulb to emit some light.. .. .Mr Duncan Smith said: . .. ."This is ludicrous. Churchill won the second world war with a 40W Mazda bulb from Woolworth's and Wellington beat Napoleon by candlelight.. .. .He added: "The Eurobulb is an extravagance. We can buy the tougher tried and tested Depleted Uranium bulb off the shelf from America for £3.6 Million.". .. ."This is a direct result of opening up the front line to gays and women - the first thing they did was a makeover on the MOD main building at a cost of £685 Million. No, standard bulbs weren't good enough for them - the women filled the place with halogen uplighters to create 'ambience'. The gays now want to create a 'Millennial Macho Military Chic' by plunging the building into darkness and buying night vision goggles.". .. ."I look good in green" commented Air Marshal Sir Laurence Llewellyn-Bowen.. .. .The CGS, General Sir "Charlie" Dimmock, appearing in The Sun, said: "Phwoarr, Who needs light bulbs when you've got a pair like these? ... Come in Radio Moscow .... ... Come in Radio Moscow ....". .. .Mr Dunkin Smith is a non-executive director of Lockheed Dubya-Martin Nuclear Defence Illumination Inc, was bullied at school and was regularly beaten by his nanny. . . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .I feel I need to comment on/clarify several issues.. .. .The matter of the self contained power source is also being addressed in concert with the Eurobulb project. As you may remember the initial requirement for the “bulb” came about following the discovery by Senior Staffs that their room had become dark. The rapid progress of what became known as the Eurobulb Project has amazed many and it is expected that the bulb in the Senior Officer’s Office will be replaced as early as 2009. This 8 year timescale in development, evaluation and implementation is unheard of in military procurement circles and can be held up as a shining example of this Government’s commitment to Smart Procurement and it’s desire to provide the very best our Armed Forces has to offer to British Industry.. .The self contained power source issue is seen as a longer term, but nonetheless vital, offshoot from the Eurobulb Project. Technological advances in the field of power storage mean that the possibility of a man-portable light source is not far off. Studies by DERA and staffs at Aldermaston suggest that an illumination unit could be contained in a unit no larger than a two car batteries taped together. Obviously development of something like this will take time and will be expensive but it is felt that the costs incurred will be outweighed by the benefits of the new device. It is expected that the device will only require 2 men to carry and operate, making it ideal for Special Forces and other Covert Operations.. .. .Concerns have been raised about the naming of the Eurobulb. The name “Stuka”, whilst being acceptable to our German colleagues, has caused some consternation amongst certain sections of society and as such plans are underway to hold an enquiry into the naming of the bulb by the working group formed by the initial procurement committee. The enquiry is expected to report it’s findings to the 2nd Parliamentary sub-committee on Ethics and Naming no later than September 2007. Public comment may then be made, by telegram, to the appropriate office no later than 8:00am on the morning the report is published (at 9:30am).. .. .Finally, the issue of Airworthiness Compliance for the Eurobulb was raised early on in the development of the bulb but the steering group felt that if it was ignored then the problem might go away. Initial studies have suggested that ignoring the problem has not forced it to go away and have led to the formation of a sub-steering group to look into and report on the issue of airworthiness. At the same time a further ancillary secondary sub-steering group will be looking into why ignoring the problem didn’t make it go away. Both groups are expected are expected to report at some uncertain date in the distant future by which stage MoD Excuse 14(b) will have come into play (to quote from the MoD Manual of Excuses: 14(b) “You’ve gotten by this long on the old kit so why do you need new stuff” .. .. .I hope this clarifies any uncertainties over what is undoubtedly an exciting “bit of kit” (as our boys at the front would say!).. . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .Memorandum. .To: ACM Sir Roger Gurlsalott. .From: Air Cdre T Boye. .Subject: Project 'Bulb Replace'. .. .Sir, you have asked why I was not in the planning loop for project 'Bulb Replace', and enquire as to whther the project would have been completed more quickly if I had.. .. .It was regretted that AVM Pasthebuk gave the responsibility to the project directly to his Gp Capt. However, I was undertaking my primary duties at the time, which take precedence over managing projects, my secondary duty. You may recall that there was a high level meeting of the RAF Board; they obviously needed their teas co-ordinating which is what I was engaged in.. .. .On another related matter, I share your concern over the security implications of naming a project or operation in a way that the aim of the project could easily be deduced by non-authorized personnel. You rightly point out that this policy dates back to the decision to rename Operation 'Kill lots of Iraqis' to 'Granby'. Therefore, I have initiated a post-project review and, henceforth, project 'Bulb Replace' is now to be known as 'Antediluvian Response Mechanism'. Hopefully this should throw anyone off the scent.. .. .Finally, I note with interest your comments on the requirement for a titanium bulb. You are, of course, correct in your thinking that this is totally unnecessary and so I have initiated a post-project review board to look at alternative metals.. . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .I've heard a rumour that Richard Branson has submitted a last minute proposal to produce a westernised and updated former Soviet Union bulb. Apparently it will be cheaper and more efficient than the Eurobulb. He has suggested that it will be able to be produced under licence in the UK. Could this be the end of the much maligned Eurobulb? . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .All this Eurobulb talk is just politics. Don't you know our 'special status' allows us access to the latest Joint Shining Filament technology? Forget Europe, BWoS is already a partner in the JSF programme and we'll be buying it in two versions: screw-in for the AF and bayonet for the Marines. . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. ."EUROBULB TO BE CANCELLED". .. .by Euro 'can't-put-a-cannon-in-a-fighter' team!!. .Reports received today at Reuters suggests that moves are afoot to cancel the over-budget "Eurobulb" project.. .. .Accountants have reported that the maintenance costs would not prove viable in the present climate of financial restraint.. .. .Use of the "Eurobulb" could indeed render the rest of MOD (building) useless as a replacement contract has been cut from the contract's costings "as an inefficient use of resources".. .. .Insiders have confirmed that the "Eurobulb" is not compatible with the multi-million pound MOD infrastructure upgrade, which suggests that the "Eurobulb" could join the "cannon-in-a-fighter" pile of foolhardy initiatives. . .. .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .From today’s Sunday Times:. .LACK OF FITTERS HITS EUROBULB ORDER by Mike Oxlong. .. .The RAF has been forced to delay its orders for the Eurobulb because of a shortage of skilled bulb fitters.. .. .The decision, seen as yet another blow for the beleaguered £40 billion project, also puts at risk many of the 6000 jobs at British Defence Illumination where the bulbs are being made. The RAF initially ordered 232 boxes of bulbs, worth £16 billion, to be delivered by 2014. However, an acute shortage of fitters capable of fitting the bulbs has led to orders being delayed. Last night the RAF admitted that it was short of 80 bulb fitters, but insisted that it still intended to take delivery of the bulbs.. .. .Sources close to the project claimed that only 150 boxes of the bulbs, built by a European consortium in four countries, will be in service by 2010, eight years after the first bulb is delivered. The order for the remaining 82 boxes will be put on hold; the bulbs will be made and delivered when the RAF requires them.. .. .One Eurobulb expert said “They haven’t got enough time to train all the bulb fitters they need before it comes into service.” The number of bulb fitters has slowly decreased in recent years. Official figures show that in 1996 there were 2,590 fitters in the RAF; latest numbers show that there are 2,175....2,174....2,173...., a fall of 16%. Many have gone to commercial bulb fitting outfits, which offer up to £100,000 a year for a skilled neon tube qualified fitter at British Light-Rays, or £55,000 for a newly qualified fitter with a budget company such as Easybulb. A top RAF fitter would get £50,000.. .. .An RAF spokesman said “There is a shortage, but we are in the process of reviewing the pay schemes in order to make them more competitive in comparison to commercial companies. We are planning the introduction of retention bonuses to stop the outflow of fitters.” However, recently announced retention bonuses have been met with incredulity and disbelief amongst currently serving bulb fitters. Discussion on an anonymous website forum dedicated to bulb fitters – BBulb – has been heated: “Every day I put my life on the line, climbing up really high ladders without a safety man, risking electocution and glass shard injuries just to fit bulbs where they are needed and look how they treat me?” said one contributor. Many other grievances among bulb fitters have also been aired on the website recently, such as coping with poorly maintained ladders, overstretch (at the top of ladders), and the seemingly excessive ratio of managers to bulb fitters.. . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .Mindful of the supply problems being faced by HMG, the ex-ACM Senior Defence Advisor to British Defence Illumination recently secured a take-over of an associated company, DU-r-Us after negotiating with the many-headed Director of the company during a pre-Farnborough lunching season.. ."I can categorically state that, if taken in small doses, Depleted Uranium has the positively beneficial side-effect of personal auto-illumination", he said at a recent press briefing carried out from behind a 12" lead shield. "In fact, this 'glow-in-the-dark' property may well render the Eurobulb superfluous, as our servicemen, women and things will be able to see quite adequately by their own luminosity.....". .. .At this point, however, the combination of a barely digested free-lunch and a control dose of DU had rather tragic results. Rather than pass wind in polite company, the ex-ACM's clenched sphincter compressed the DU to such an extent that an unstable radio-isotope was created; criticality quickly followed and for one brief and memorable instant the ex-ACM really did have sun shining out of his ar$e!! . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .STOP PRESS..........GREECE TO BUY EUROBULB.. .from John Keegan Sunday Telegraph Defence Correspondent. . .. .In a statement today from GKN Vicbulbs R Us spokesgiraffe Geoffrey, it is believed that the Greek Army and Air Force are procuring Eurobulb. The AF/Army requirement is for 60 bulbs, however, due to the country being on the southern flank of NATO and also offering a mean kebab (including liver and halumi) that the German, more competitive financially attractive independent tender would be accepted over the consortia's offer. This was mainly due to the increased amount of natural daylight offered from the southern flank (or was that non executive director ex ACMs ar%e?). The German offer was also believed to include camouflage in a Leopard colour. It has been previously inaccurately reported that the German tender was offered in only the 40W configuration. Geoffrey said that he was leaving for Greece tomorrow to see Spiros the Greek and ask for a re-bid with extra chilli sauce mate. . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .I note that under the original project specification of light bulbs by almirante6 it was a purely RAF tasking. It would seem that other Services are now getting in on the act. This clearly will turn a tightly controlled and short project of less than 10 years into a joint Service purple debacle.. .Can our Airships please step in and stop this small procurement programme becoming another multi-Service embarrassment.. .. .I might add that if we are going to use titanium or DU as the main material then putting a 40W filament in the middle would have no external illuminationary effect(IEI). Therefore, if we were to design out the filament it would have the following benefits:. .1. Reduced R and D costs.. .2. Reduced manufacturing costs.. .3. Reduced maintenance costs.. .4. Reduced running costs.. .5. Greater mean period between failure. . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .As British military assistance to Sierra Leone continues to grow, it was reported yesterday that thousands of soldiers from the Sierra Leone Army had been trained in the new Eurobulb being provided to Sierra Leone as a part of UK support to this peace-loving and democratic country.. .The Commander of the British Illuminatory Training Team, Lt Col Roberta Guthrie-Winterton, who was recently awarded the OBE for services to photography and media relations, confirmed that over 3,286,000 Sierra Leonean soldiers had now been trained in the use of the Eurobulb.. .. ."This represents a valuable British contribution to the cause of peace and freedom in Sierra Leone," she said. "In particular, the training has concentrated on developing appropriate methodologies for the health and safety risk assessments necessary prior to removing the bulb from its packaging.". .. .Speaking from his sumptuous forward operational headquarters on the shores of Lake Geneva, General Horatius de'Ath, Commander-in-Chief of the Sierra Leonean Army, confirmed that payment for the millions of Eurobulbs supplied would be made in the form of blood diamonds to be delivered to Whitehall in a brown envelope.. .. ."One day", he said, "we may even have electricity." . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .There was outrage yesterday when it was revealed that children in Sierra Leone as young as nine were being trained in the use of the Eurobulb. As the shocking news was uncovered, ministers leapt to the defence of the policy for issuing the Eurobulb to the Sierra Leone army. Commenting on the issue, Lt Col Roberta Guthrie-Winterton stated that 'it is our intention that only adults come into contact with the eurobulb. We are disturbed that children may be getting supplies, and are in urgent discussions with our counterparts in the Sierra Leone army to see what has gone wrong'.. .The news was attacked by the shadow defence minister, who said 'this is typical of the shortsightedness of the current Government. We are now faced with the spectre of young children getting electrocuted when plugging the bulbs into their sockets'. However, on further questioning by reporters, he conceded that, without any electricity in the country, the likelihood of someone getting electrocuted was small. 'It's the principle', he argued, 'and, besides, what about the dangers of choking?'.. .. .When challenged as to how a nine year old could swallow a Eurobulb, already 3 times larger and twice as heavy as it's civilian counterpart, the shadow minister suddenly found something else to do and left.. . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH NEWSFLASH. .. .Herr Helmut von Wurst, CEO of British Defence Illumination plc has just announced the forming of a new company within the Group.. .. .The new company, named EuroCeiling, will join the present group of companies on the Eurobulb project. . .. .Analysis by a team of scientists at DERA have carried out tests on numerous redundant HASs and HPSs to assess the strength of ceiling fixtures required to support the Eurobulb. So far over 70% of the test sites have suffered structural damage caused by mock-up Eurobulbs. Herr von Wurst was quoted as saying "diese prufen giebt nicht eine catostrophe". The MOD spokesman, Sqn Ldr P. Aperclip who sat alongside Herr von Wurst was unable to translate but said "these result are a major problem for the project". . .. .He went on to detail that the new company, EuroCeiling, has now been tasked to design new ceilings to support Eurobulb. Sqn Ldr Aperclip said "early indications show that internal support structures required for Eurobulb would halve the effective space of rooms fitted with Eurobulb. However, on the plus side this would also reduce the amount of lighting required.". .. .Sqn Ldr Aperclip is no stranger to major projects. As a Flt Lt he was responsible for the design and building of new Fire Sections within the RAF subsequently found to be too small to house the new MK10 fire tenders now introduced into the RAF. . .. .Sqn Ldr Aperclip is looking forward to his next tour, on promotion. As Head of the works service team responsible for the widening of taxiways, modifications to hangar doors and changes to the manoeuvring area at RAF Kinloss his past performance should bring a ray of hope to those personnel at the Scottish Unit dismayed at recent news of further delays to the MRA4 project.. . . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .Eurobulb support contract marks major opportunity for monopolistic levels of profit for British Illuminate-a-Space. . .(No NO NO! That's not right. Make that, "marks a shining example of Smart Acquisition in practise".) . .In return for a paltry £3 Billion over the next five years, British Illuminate-a-Space Systems and Support's Bulb Bull Elephant Team will take all responsibility for the storage, distribution, issue, fitting, removal and disposal of all MoD bulbs. . .(Once all trained service personnel have vanished, we'll jack up the prices and have a stranglehold on the whole damned lot, from manufacture to manufacturing the replacement. ) . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------. .. .FLASH FLASH FLASH. .. .Project cancelled, new element to requirement, EEC Directive 7756 of 1986 stated bayonet fittings to be replaced by screw by 2001.. .. . MOD warned but failed to react. . .. .Minister states project has revealed useful information so £3 billion not wasted. . .--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[StopStart]

SWB. .. .Aircrew on the ground at Kabul?? Are you mad?? When I was there but 2 days ago there was no sign of a hotel nor of a well stocked duty free shop. Needless to say we limited our stay to 20mins and left in disgust.. .. .PS. Do please tell your contact in Kabul to pop by next Albert passes thru if he gets a chance; the movers are getting everything at the moment and I'm sure they're not sharing it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[TheSeeFarShadow]

Maybe it wasn't the most tactful of thread-starters, but the underlying sentiments remain the same. . .. . The det I'm on at the moment has the emphasis all wrong.. .. . I agree that every trade has it's role to play in 'projecting airpower' but petty empire-building is not the way to do it. Yes, send those not needed home.. .. . One of my biggest gripes on day one of the det was that at the arrivals brief everyone was told what they could and could not do (smoking near tents, getting pi$$ed, illegal houch in tents etc....). Not once did they mention what the mission of the DOB is. I know what I came here to do, but does everyone else??. .. . Even after the few months of this det, has everyone who has passed through here actually realised that the sole purpose is to get the Nimrod and Tristar airborne on operational missions and to stage the Herc and VC-10 through when needed. I was queried just the other day by a senior 'other rank' "..what section are you from?". use all available clues - I was standing in front of him in a flying suit with a AE brevet.(Rocket science it is not).. .. . I am also astounded that the only FJ aircrew in theatre (as far as I'm aware) is the DOB commander. (Not the ideal time or place to start learning about multi-engine/Nimrod ops) and wait for it, the Maritime Patrol Aircraft liason officer - blinder!!!. .. . I can't believe, how on all of the Nimrod Dets I've been on, how we managed to get airborne and carry out the mission without PTIs, Plods, Adminers, Padres, Movers, Rock Apes, Posties ................ - Must be a miracle

[TheNonDoctor]

It takes something controversial for me to put hand to keyboard, but TheSeeFarShadow has seriously w$%nked in my chip pan.

I am today amazed at aviation medicine, to come online and see "those totally unrequired medical staff" have allowed TheSeeFarShadow to get airborne with his head firmly entrenched up his own backside. This must have been done with aid of the "unwanted on detachment Dental staff", who have removed his teeth in order for him to see his electronic wizardry, albeit upsidedown.

One thing that I have learnt today about the RAF after 17 years service is that the Nimrod is the most important thing in the RAF. First thing on tuesday I am off to Handbrake house (if the RAF need them now) and get myself a posting to ISK in order that I can serve the "AE brevet" wearing demi-god. I may struggle to get a posting there as the "Mighty Fishing Trawler Registration Spotter" doesnt require anything other than a pilot to get it off the ground... OOPS, I was wrong there, the only section they do like is INFLIGHT CATERING.

I cannot believe a Flight Sergeant (obviously never made it via Corporal) would be so narrow minded, and self centred as to believe that support staff are not required on deployments. I do suggest TheSeeFarShadow, that you go and have a chat with the support staff and express your views directly to them. They cant read this on here as they are working long before and long after your ample posterier has left your airborne restaraunt. Lets then see what special Won-Tun soup you get in your butty box, or perhaps a nice special ointment for your Nobby Stiles.

You must also make your mind up, I know decisions such as what type of Choccie bar to have with your cup of tea whilst airborne are difficult but what is all this about below?


The Royal Air Force remain the Royal AIR Force because we are here to support the aircraft and aircrew, we are not the "Tactical 'I'm important' Wing" or "Joint Services 'I'm more important than you' Unit". You don't need to know what we do or do not do.

or

One of my biggest gripes on day one of the det was that at the arrivals brief everyone was told what they could and could not do (smoking near tents, getting pi$$ed, illegal houch in tents etc....). Not once did they mention what the mission of the DOB is. I know what I came here to do, but does everyone else??


On min you want everyone to know whats going on... the next you dont.. Too many large meals while flying or Hypoxia????

Maybe you should find a job where you are better looked after, that pay more attention to such an important person... Try these phrases "Would you like fries with that?" or perhaps "would Sir like to go large for 30p extra?"... OOPS silly me again, thats what the AE brevet wearing guys do on Nimrods isnt it?

I hope on your next det that you dont lose your ID, your money isnt stolen, you arent confined to bed with Bangalore belly, that your luggage isnt left at ISK, you dont need a driver to get you from your 5 star hotel to your flying Aberdeen Steak House and your Nav can correctly address an OAT flight plan through the middle east.. Failing that, click your ruby red slippers three times and repeat three times "There is no place like home..."

[Scud-U-Like]

Priceless :D :D :D

[Ralf Wiggum]

TSFS, if you didn't have the support of Ground Force, you'd be the first to whine. Catch 22 really. It's very senior aircrew who make the decisions on Det establishments, not blunties.

We know that Ground Crew are there to support Pilots - you push it down our thoat at every opportunity. Do you have some sort of Seniority complex that the Medics haven't found out about?

It's good to remember why we support aircrew. For Air Power, in order that the troops on the ground can advance and take the fight on with the enemy. Therefore, your role is to SUPPORT the squaddies. At the end of the day, you are not my superior and probably not better educated. Just because I do not want to fly aircraft does not make me any less educated than you and I chose what trade I wanted. You may well be an Officer while I am SNCO, you most certainly are not my superior in the true definition of the term.

You are the weakest link TSFS. GOODBYE!:mad:


(Edited for tipping errers)

[Talking Radalt]

OK OK I agree we all have a part to play, but I think what really depresses most aircrew is when people attach totally the wrong degree of importance to complete and utter nonsense to serve no purpose other than to firmly stamp their own mark of self-importance on everything and everyone.
Aircrew can be just as bad at this, when it comes to PMEs for example. Call me a girly swot but I always offer to take what's available even if it means waiting a week or two rather then bump some other Joe of the list simply because I'm aircrew. We all know it happens but quite frankly I don't expect to be treated any better or worse than anyone else on the basis my time on the ground is more precious than somebody else's. I willingly admit it isn't.
BUT....
What I do expect is other people to approach their work with the same can-do, rule-flexing open mind that we crews HAVE to display in our job. Where would we be if every time ATC passed a slightly incorrect gem of information we stormed off in a huff? Next time one-too-many passengers turn up shall I just let them fight it out on the pan? Those troops I can see on the other side of that river? Well they can bloody well wade across it for passing the wrong grid!
Actually no, fair's fair, I mean it's not like any of you ever turn up at five minutes to chocks, incorrectly dressed with no survival kit and ask to come flying.....is it?
:rolleyes:

[MR TROTTER sr]

whilst i enjoy watching u lot argue here are some basics.
kippers have worked here for years without 200 support persons.
the support camp costs 500k a week to run. kippers can stay in a hotel for say 50k a week. support boss wants kippers to move at a fuel cost alone of 840k per week in extra transit time. how is that logical? added to which all the jets are worn out and can well do without the extra hours anyway! send all the support back where they can do a real job instead of wasting their time looking after a det that doesn't need it.

[MR TROTTER sr]

hey doc. we have a lot of problems here but the last thing we need is having the mickey taken out of us. i agree seefarman could be more polite with the non aircrew but it is a fact that our det here has been running for 20 years without their help. also u can back off giving the aircrew a hard time. i have yet to meet any of the support staff who are getting shot at like we are on a daily basis thanx...

[widge]

Well said Mr Trotter. Its about time that people realised that the mighty 'rod' has been quite happily winging its way around the world since before many of these admin/police/catering/medical people on these dets were even a twinkle in their daddied eye. Not once during that time did we ever need 200+ support personnel - all its ever taken is a good crew chief and a bunch of hard working ground crew (usually no more that half a dozen or so) to support a prolonged det.

As for the ops staff filing flight plans for us - I dont think so - we have Navs who have been doing it for years, pilots who actually know how to get met and ground crew who know how to beg steal and borrow to achieve the task of getting us up-diddly-up-up.

Ive not been to theatre as yet, but having worked out of there on many occasions I can easily say we dont need the type of help that some of the crews are getting. As a matter of fact it can be counter productive as the crews minds are elsewhere worrying about some admin niff naff dumped on them by someone with nothing better to do than make a name for him/herself.

Rant over - the sooner everyone comes home the better, then we can all go back to the good old days of only a few months ago where all we had to moan about was not getting our claims paid quick enough and not having enough chicken in the chicken curry



Edited to remove any correct spelling at sauce

[Mr C Hinecap]

Radalt - Where have you been - who is blessed with your perception & experience??? Those Movers who work around your royal rump must be SOOOOO grateful for the assistance with the PAX you provide them with. Ahhhh, some day my Prince will come.........:o

[Talking Radalt]

Hey Chinstrap.....
I have never seen a mover anywhere near a mighty Chinook. It's just another string to the crewmen's bow.
Oh no I stand corrected. Cast your minds back to the desert last September. Steps, Geri and THAT welfare package?
After hearing rumours of a bootleg water run, a swarm of movers appeared at an aircraft and practically held the crew hostage until they were given afew boxes to alleviate the RM rationing of H20. (whilst all the blunties at Masirah were complaining about the UNLIMITED bottled water being too warm by the way)
Pretty impressive when you consider we were regularly handling pax loads at least equal to or sometimes greater than that of Albert on whom YOU lot doted. Any enquiries about some help to guide poor lost souls to their respective camps after arrival by wokka was met with a short BLUNT "We don't do rotary"
Then there was that bloody great big floodlight thing you twerps put up in your little empire, burning out NVG tubes for miles around. Which was nice.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Talking Radalt]

Oh actually I'm wrong twice.
I was forgetting the movers in NI who just assume they can wander up to the aircraft as and when they please wearing short-sleeve shirts and non-fire retardent nylon "look at me!" vests.
:p

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Mr Trotter

What exactly have you been shot at with out there? Guava halves and Mango slices in natural juice!

Pleeeeeeease; I hate blunties as much as the next man, but don't over egg your case.

Talking Radalt, drop me a line.

HPT

[Oggin Aviator]

TR - so I take it you dont like movers then ?

Just a hunch ...... can't think why ! :)

[Talking Radalt]

Oggin,
I don't hate movers but SSII is a prime example of bluntness getting in the way of plain simple mutual back-scratching.
Virtually every day you could set your watch to "five mintues before chocks" by the two or three RMs who would come up to us and ask "Any chance you can you drop us on Ocean, please?", which we would more than happily do. I even heard of a crewman passing round a note during flight with a list of destinations (inc two ships) asking the pax to tick where they wanted dropping, so numerous were the waifs and strays collected en-route...true bus-run stuff courtesy of Can-Do Airlines.
Trouble started when folk would turn up at Camp X unexpectedly and then ask the movers (who don't do rotary) if there was any chance of a lift to the adjacent Camp Y.
Obviously it's easy to use four crew and a £20m aircraft as a taxi. Using a mover's Landrover to provide the same service is, evidently, too much to ask.:rolleyes:

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

TR, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that all the RAF lads on JHSU were movers?

[Scud-U-Like]

Shafted by the officers (see 'SNCO Aircrew Shafted') , shafted by the blunties and occasionally shafted by one another. I don't know how you cope.

[Talking Radalt]

WB's SATCO,

JHSU might be movers, they just don't act like it!;)

[Mr C Hinecap]

Radalt. You need a hug. Everyone, team hug for Radalt.

I can't talk for your experiences in SSII, but jobsworths are p00, I concur. The way Rotary works is often strange - think what percentage of Movers do NOT work at either of the secret air bases in Oxon or Wilts - not surprising most of em don't know what to do when a rotary lands - Mover training is based upon freight & pax ac, not rotary. Methinks some education across the Trades would help - but its not gonna happen - would cost some money - therefore null & void. Ah well, back to the banter.:rolleyes:

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

TR, you must of course be referring to the "Mighty Red Armband". Now that reminds me of the time I was stuck on a coach at Lyneham (you know, arrive at S.Cerney 4 days prior to dep, Lyneham, 8 hrs and then get taken to breakfast) when the SAC Mover (about 13 and a quarter complete with acne) started to mouth-off about how everyone had only 10 minutes for breakfast. Luckily (for once) an army officer stood up and responded asking said teenager if he always spoke to One Star officers in the same manner. Laugh, I wet myself.

PS That was the same deployment that the RAFP insisted on shoving my rifle through the XRay machine. What's that all about then?

[Oggin Aviator]

TR - your view on "Lusty Airways" - the guys doing the movers job on the CVS on SSII ? They are manned by the naval airmen (chockheads) and the SE guys and I think they do a good job, overall. Just an extra duty undertaken without complaint on the mighty warship, with loads of VIP moves and a ship undertaking a lot of change in a very short space of time. Any points?

P.S. Watched the mighty CH47 land on a few times - awesome! Must be fun.

[Talking Radalt]

Chinstrap said:
"Methinks some education across the Trades would help - but its not gonna happen - would cost some money - therefore null & void. Ah well, back to the banter"

Since when were the needs of a pax on a Chinny any different to those on a Herc?

How many Fs in "common sense"?

And Oggin, despite all the drawbacks (?) of the Navy lark the guys on the big grey floaty things are generally very helpful, SEs especially. The kettle never stopped boiling during SSII!

[Yeller Gait]

For what it is worth, I received this by e-mail today ......

ADMINISTRATIUM

The heaviest element known to science has recently been discovered.

The element, tentatively named ? Administratium ? is unique in that it has no protons or electrons and has thus an atomic number of 0. However it does have 1 neutron, 125 assistant neutrons, 75 vice neutrons and 111 assistant vice neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held in the nucleus by a force that involves the continuous exchange of meson-like particles called morons.

Because it has no protons or electrons Administratium is inert. However, it can be detected chemically as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. According to the discoverers, a tiny amount of Administratium caused one reaction to take over four days to complete when it normally would occur in less than one second.

It was one of Einstein?s lesser known predictions that such an element should exist. Since the role of enzymes and catalysts in initiating and/or speeding up reactions became known, by Newton?s third law, it seemed probable that an element which had precisely the opposite effects should most likely exist.

Administratium has a half-life of approximately three years. During this period it doesn?t actually decay but instead undergoes a reorganisation in which assistant neutrons, vice neutrons and assistant vice neutrons exchange places. Some studies of this have shown that, almost without exception, heavier isotopes are formed i.e. the atomic mass actually increases after each reorganisation.

Researchers at other laboratories have found that Administratium is found in the atmosphere. It tends to concentrate at certain points such as universities, government agencies, large corporations, hospitals, schools and Station Headquarters. The element seems to be found especially in the newest, best-appointed and best-maintained buildings.

Scientists point out that Administratium is toxic even at very low levels of concentration. It can easily destroy any productive reactions if it is allowed to accumulate. To prevent irreversible damage, attempts are being made to determine how the effects of Administratium can be controlled, but the results so far are not promising.

KEEP FIGHTING THE SPREAD OF THIS DEADLY ELEMENT.

[Climebear]

Interesting Blunty Bashing going on here... and don't we deserve it for some of the time (Admin Guru either does it to wind you up or he deserves it more than most). I can take Blunty bashing from any flyers (I definatly so not have the aptitude to drive one of those airbourne steers about the wild blue yonder - I have enough difficulties with new deliveries of paper clips). I do, however, get upset when Fighter Controllers (those 3rd men in the cockpit) get in on the act. I offer the following to spark healthy debate and some more bashing.

If the degree of blutness is related to the risks involved, then no doubt strapping yourself to a jet engine (or 2) and flying very low to the ground, very fast is sharper than manning a desk at Binnsworth (even a GD Desk Officer's desk flown by a pilot). However, ATO and Bomb Disaposal also fall into your categories of Blunty. Also, you may wish to look at the more specialist organizations ;) working not to far away to see that Blunties do do other things. Personnaly, I am spending a sabatical from Bluntdom patrolling a ceasefire line between 2 waring factions, occasionally being threatened by AK wielding individuals who don't like me, listening to gunfire close by as I lie in my bed, and driving around in Mine Protected Armoured vehicles (We stopped flying after one of our Hips was shot down in October killing 9 of the mission). However, I still consider myself to be Blunt. compared to the Cpl leading a patrol in S Armagh.

If anyone who is in support is a Blunty. Does this mean that those who fly and support other aviation assets are slightly sharper Blunties? Taking this one step further, the SH force (clue in the title) and AT force are supporting arms! Now for the sharp end. Air Power is a supporting function of war, it has never won a conflict alone (although it has been the major deciding force in several conflicts and has won some individual battles (eg 'of Britain' and 'of Medway'). Air Defence provides a secure environment for offensive air operations and defence of surface forces - therefore in support of other assets. Offensive air in the tactical and operational levels provide direct and indirect support to surface forces. Even at the Strategic level and in Aerial Coercion the offensive air effort is generally in support of diplomatic moves. Therefore, our (Air) job is to support someone else. Maybe we should ask the squadie (who is generally at the real sharp end in war) what he thinks of the support we provide!

The finding of the new substance administratum is very interesting. I read another article in Air Clues that stated that administratum is a dilute form of bureaucratum. If this is true I take it as a compliment. Without administratum you guys would get raw bureaucratum. I have had to deal with this within the MOD, believe me guys, you really don’t want to get close to that!

Finally on the light bulb theme. How many Harrier mates does it take to change a light bulb? One, he just holds the bulb and the whole world rotates around him!

[Flap62]

Climebear,

Didn't you know that Harrier mates don't need to change light bulbs.

We can see in the dark and we know where you live!

[Climebear]

Flap69, I have a cunning plan (which will no doubt, have a fatal flaw in that it is b****cks). Being a cruel Adminer I have ice in my veins not blood so your clever IR devices can't see me.

But your welcome to pop in for a drink if you bring some paperclips for me to count!!

PS I am still waitin for the Harrier jolly promised me by a Harrier Gp Capt (an exceptionally nice bloke who is sadly no longer in the Service) while we were waiting for the T10 to arrive in Euroland- but then I don't have a lumpy jumper!!

[Talking Radalt]

Climebear, you missed Flap's other warning:

"We know where you live"

So once again the odds are stacked against you since we all know that SAMA is ***** and judging by the number of NOK forms we have to fill in.....you ain't got nothin' on us, certainly not a place of residence.
My RPOD proves it! It NEVER costs me THAT much to get to work (if you can call it work).:p

[Climebear]

Ah but I am not there - convientiently, I have been sent to a place far-far away in the back of beyond for 6 months to sever the umbilical cord with the kingdom of blunt.:cool:

Anyway, you are more than welcome to pop across to see me, I had some good times at the Harrier base on the continant that wasn't Gutersloh. The appearance of some GR7s overhead would certainly spice up life around here. And may persuad the locals to stop holding up our patrols at gun-point.

Have fun, and don't let the bastards get you down.

[Yeller Gait]

Earlier in this thread there were various references to "jobsworth" and empire building. ....

I have just received my annual bit of rain-forest from the med centre informing me that if I do not go along to their overworked empire and let them judge me fit to fly (God forbid that I am ever genuinely ill, I have no chance of getting an appointment when I need one), then I will be grounded. Not only this, but also that (if my job permits) I will not be allowed to "control" either.

Are we now distinguishing between aircrew and controllers (who also fly) or have the jobsworth's started having a go at ATC people too?

[robspottydog]

Oh Dear Yeller

Have you reported this flagrant abuse of the rainforest to your environmental rep? I am sure he will help! or is it just me?:rolleyes: