SNCO Aircrew .... Shafted??? - Part2

[maniac55]

In response to the request posted by PPRuNe Pop, here is part 2.. .. .Further to MagicMan from the previous thread, you said "Having said that, someone will soon have to take the problem by the scruff and sort it out. We are approaching an interesting point in time, with lots of AEOps approaching 'decision time' and I fear that the majority of them will simply vote with their feet. Perhaps when that happens, and a few of your Kilo Sqn Cdrs reflect that in their stats returns to group, strike blah, maybe then will someone take a realitly pill and reverse this appalling trend." . .. .Bear in mind that most crews are down to 12 instead of 13 and no-one has batted an eye-lid. In fact on the 'Squid' Sqn there's a couple of crews that have 11 and need an extra bod for each event, (strangely the shortages are in AA and not O's) if the alarm bells aren't ringing already then they never will.. .. .Similar sentiments existed at the time of the new TOS and downbanding, the hierachy knew then as now that there would be a backlash and similarly they'll try and weather the storm. It worked in the early 90's, there were no mass PVR's etc, the difference now is that there are less of us and it'll only take a few to go through with their decisions and leave.. .. .Our problems start with how PMA and the establishment view us, something which Flap62 demonstrates with regularity. . .. .As I've said before, I'd like to see something come out of the latest review but I'm not holding my breath.. . . . <small>[ 27 March 2002, 11:29: Message edited by: maniac55 ]</small>

[Baz Heath]

Maniac55,. .. .I think you have hit the nail on the head as far as demonstrating how the AA world is regarded, especially at pma.. .. .AMP on his visit to the Mushroom Farm a couple of weeks ago did say in fact, that without AA there 'would be no Air Force'. .. .Interesting statement that isn't it? The thing I don't understand is, if AMP thinks that, why are still being treated like $hit?? I wonder.. .. .Sorry to hear you boys at Kilo are flying so 'light' Me thinks how you cope with so few knockers, or do you just steal them from another crew as and when?. .. .Your comments about no mass PVR are also most valid. Most have mortgages and families to support, and it is a big decision to throw away your service carreer. In my case however, it wasn't just the pay thin (or lack of it) but the other crap that is now at the forefront of service policy.. .. .Flying aircraft is no longer the prime concern, genuinly, it really isn't. It's making sure that we are all AFT current, CCS current, IRT, you name it blah!!! The fact that you might not have flown for 30 days 'cos there are no jets, no problem. Are you CCS current? Yes, oh well thats ok then, well done. Bo££ocks!!!. .. .Anyway, enough ranting.. .Good luck to all of you that are staying, I admire your commitment and hope that one day you will get what you so richly deserve!. .. .MM sends. .. .Eny speeling mestakes are alcholol indewced!!!

[Hertz Van Rental]

MagicMan. .. .&gt;I have heard recently that a posting to Cranwell is regarded as a 'rest tour' for ex Kilo AEOps!! and yet when I speak to mates over on applied flight, they tell me they are working their nuts off! so whats that all about?. .. .Having done tours at ISK and Cranditz and having worked my nuts off in both, I can confirm that the training tour IS a rest tour - for the family. They actually get to plan holidays and weekends confident that you will be there. Think of it as a rest from operational uncertainty rather than from work.

[currybuoy]

hello again, thought i would raise my head once more, i realise that i may have ruffled a few feathers however, operating on the 12 man crews is v.difficult with little or no supervision time if the crew has a certain composition,as i have recenlty found out. Ageed that the Sqn's are all short of AA, on the pilot front most are not to bad although we have had to lend the odd pilot here and there,the 2 main fronts we have in shortages are AA and Nav's, maniac if you know that much about the sqn's you'll know what i mean. Don't get my previous points wrong, having the money thing thrown at you everyday by the sanme knocker is really annoying, as i am sure it would be to anyone else regardless of rank or postion, but the fundamentals are that we need just more people, In all branches!

[widge]

currybuoy. .. .If you cant take a bit of banter then you really are in the wrong job! Its not the fact that you may be getting a wad of cash just for doing what you are paid for in the first place - its more a dig at the system that instigated this whole FRI. For what its worth I couldnt give too hoots if you take the money or not, but if you do take it then leave 5 years down the line what does that say about the quality of Officer that Cranwell produces in this day and age? Once up a time (pull up a sandbag - this is going to be good) you joined the best and most professional fighting force in the world for those two reasons alone - and not because you wanted to make a few quid, make a few enemies along the way and then stick youre fingers up at it and say Im off.. .. .Anyway I dont know your history, but judging by the posts youve made hear so far you are just the kind of bloke who will stay the extra 5 years, do absolutly ##ck all during those five years then swan off down the A9 leaving a cake and a#se behind you. If thats not you then I appologise now, but if that is you then good ridance when your time comes.. .. .You really have missed the entire crux of this topic which is that AA feel totally betrayed and undervalued by a system that is run by Officers for the Officers. And as you obviously fall into that category you are guilty by association - backed up by most of your posts in these forums.. . . .Finally if you have nothing constructive to say dont say a thing.. .. .1st Threshold (rapidly exceeded). .. .Edited to remove all correct spelling at sauce

[maniac55]

Baz

Welcome to the world of the Royal Accounts & Admin Force.

The one thing that does hids the lack of knockers at ISK, is the even worse state of the Jets. It's a good thing that we kept the 'AEW3' converted frames so that we didn't have to take frames from the front line, oops.

[buoy15]

Ah! the good old days of Sgt pilots and Navs - changed over night by the need for the 2 man principle - Thanks to the Yanks we made a bit of a mess of our crew structures. NDB is long gone! I say Bloggs, what are all these SNCO chappies doing in the crewroom?

[lucky_b*]

buoy15,

it's better than that. A few years ago the RAF did a study into bringing back SNCO pilots. They decided that is was best that it should be an officer who dropped the big one. However , the RAF doesn't have any big ones left as Trident can apparently do it all!!! So perhaps another Aircrew study to decide if they could bring back SNCO pilots. After all! How many of us went to OASC and passed all the aptitude tests but whose face didn't fit the O's mess! ;)

Luck_B*

[MAD Boom]

The question of wether or not the RAF would consider SNCO pilots again was asked to the AFBLT when they visited Ice Staion Kilo recently.
Their answer was " we feel that to recruit fast jet aircrew we need to offer a commissioning package with the trade".
Well I reckon that if most of those at OASC were told they were good enough to be a pilot, they wouldn't give two hoots if they were commissioned or not.
The RAF just doesn't want a mixture of O's and SNCO's at the pointy ends with the same responsibilities.
If they looked a little closer it could save them a fortune!!
In my opinion, we will never see SNCO pilots again, even though a high percentage of us have the aptitude and ability to do it, but as already said, do not have the face to fit the Officers' Mess.

[maniac55]

When you consider how short we are of bodies to put in FJ seats what is more important, someone who can do the job or the O's mess? Answers on a postcard.