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blow.n.gasket
23rd Nov 2009, 23:03
Jetstar apologises over Fearnley incident

Nov 24, 2009

Jetstar has apologised to Paralympian Kurt Fearnley after he criticised the airline for making him check his personal wheelchair in with his luggage.
Fearnley, a wheelchair marathon champion, says he chose to crawl through BrisbaneAirport rather than use an unsuitable chair offered by the airline.
Jetstar spoke to Fearnley's senior manager this morning before issuing a public apology.
In a statement, the airline said the complaint has been clarified and Jetstar would privately address the matter with Fearnley.
"Jetstar apologises to Fearnley for any embarrassment and hurt that may have been caused as it was not intended," the statement said.
"Our airline's policy for a passenger in a wheelchair being transported to and from a Jetstar aircraft, in the case of a self propelled chair, is that they are transferred from their own wheelchair into a specifically designed airline wheelchair at or near the boarding gate. "
Fearnley slammed Jetstar last night after being separated from his wheelchair at Brisbane airport.
He had just returned to the country after conquering the Kokoda Track.
The 28-year-old claimed he had to crawl across the tarmac and through a bathroom after refusing to travel in a wheelchair provided by the budget airline. He said he was unfamiliar with how the supplied wheelchair operated.
"I said there is not a chance that I am going to sit there and be pushed through an airport," Fearnley said.
"An able-bodied equivalent, a normal person's equivalent would be having your legs tied together, your pants pulled down and be carried or pushed through an airport."
Fearnley finished his gruelling Kokoda challenge last Wednesday after crawling ten days through the dense Papua New Guinea terrain in searing heat.
The trek began just a week after the NSW athlete won his fourth consecutive New York wheelchair marathon.
Fearnley, speaking at the National Disability Awards in Canberra last night, said Jetstar's rules took away a person with a disability's "right to chose".

Jet-A-One
23rd Nov 2009, 23:34
His achievements are nothing short of inspirational but in this situation he's acted like a tool.

Airline wheelchairs are supplied so the person's chair can be safely loaded in the cargo hold in time for departure. Also, normal chairs don't fit down the aisles in the aircraft.

Jet* procedures are no different to any other airline at any other airport.

ditch handle
23rd Nov 2009, 23:47
Ah, no.

It seems from what I can gather that his chair was taken from him during the check in process.

He was unable to make his own way to the aircraft in his own chair to have it taken at the aircraft door for hold stowage.

This facility is routine for QF ops and people with these needs are understandably [very] protective of their wheel chairs.

QF policy allows for the chair to be delivered at the door for the passenger on disembarkation. Their relief on seeing it again is more often than not, palpable.

All thanks to those helpful ramp staff fellows.:ok:

This is for international ops. Domestic may differ.........

fritzandsauce
23rd Nov 2009, 23:52
Good on him for trying to to independent but there are times where you need others to help this also goes for able bodied passengers too. there is not a chance that I am going to sit there and be pushed through an airport
Being pushed is going to humiliate me, so i'll crawl and draw even more attention to myself

Jet-A-One
23rd Nov 2009, 23:59
Ah, yes ditch

Domestic does differ. The flight was BNE-NTL.

Capt Claret
24th Nov 2009, 00:03
On the domestic (QLink services) I operate it is quite the norm to have the pax arrive at the aircraft in their own chair, transfer to a QF chair, into the lifting device, then vice versa on arrival.

Not all pax in wheelchairs arrive thus, but it is not uncommon.

rmcdonal
24th Nov 2009, 00:09
Jetstar forces wheelchair passenger to crawl across tarmac
Is incorrect, they didn't force anything.
"Our airline's policy for a passenger in a wheelchair being transported to and from a Jetstar aircraft, in the case of a self propelled chair, is that they are transferred from their own wheelchair into a specifically designed airline wheelchair at or near the boarding gate.

"This chair's design enables the best transfer of the passenger onto the aircraft and any manoeuvre within the aisle of the aircraft."

Normal chairs do not fit down the aisle.

Jet-A-One
24th Nov 2009, 00:29
Just saw the Jet* media conference on TV.

Very well handled by Jet* PR. Unreserved apologies is all any company can give in such circumstances.

Teal
24th Nov 2009, 00:33
I heard him being interviewed on the radio this morning and he didn't articulate his case very well. He seemed upset about being required to use a 'generic vanilla' (to paraphrase some expression he used) wheelchair with 'little wheels' to get to the aircraft. He then compared that 'humiliation' to a person having their legs tied together at the ankles, then having their pants pulled down, and then being dragged through the terminal. Bizarre!

To infinity & beyond
24th Nov 2009, 00:35
Wheelchairs - At the airport
All customers travelling with a wheelchair must check-in 2 hours prior to flights departing from a domestic terminal and 3 hours prior to flights departing from an international terminal.
Jetstar provides customers with a wheelchair in which to transfer at check-in. Jetstar customer service staff will assist in the transfer into the wheelchair, using Jetstar's approved transfer method of slide boards and slide cloths.
If required, a Jetstar customer service staff member will then escort a customer who requires wheelchair assistance from check-in through security to their boarding gate. If the customer is travelling with a carer/companion who is willing to escort the customer, a Jetstar customer service staff member will organise to meet the customer(s) at the boarding gate.
Baggage: The customer's wheelchair must be checked-in as baggage. Wheelchairs or mobility aids are carried free of charge on Jetstar services and are carried in addition to the baggage allowances applicable to the customer's travel itinerary. When a customer has more than one wheelchair or mobility aid(s), the second mobility aid will be charged as excess baggage. This includes wheelchairs, electric wheelchairs and electric scooters.

Why can't they use their own wheelchair for 2 hours to get around the airport and to the boarding gate instead of using an aisle chair? Virgin Do.

teresa green
24th Nov 2009, 00:38
Daughter in law works for QF/BNE. She said he refused a wheelchair belonging to QF/JQ after his own went into the hold, due to being far to large for isle, and much to the horror of staff took off on his own to the John. Its called publicity, and as much as I admire the bloke, its a bit rich to blame JQ or any other airline for that matter, if you decide to go around a airport on all fours.:rolleyes:

stillalbatross
24th Nov 2009, 00:41
So it's standard practice to pull down the pants of wheelchair pax in Australia before they board?

777WakeTurbz
24th Nov 2009, 00:47
I agree what the man has achieved is inspirational and that it must be difficult to lose some of your independence by having to be pushed out to the aircraft, but seriously, to make this kind of scene really was uncalled for. And as for comparing it to being carried or pushed around with your pants down... give me a break.

Jetstar forces wheelchair passenger to crawl across tarmacNobody "forced" him to do this, it was his own choice... :rolleyes:

He said he was unfamiliar with how the supplied wheelchair operated.Im not familiar with Jetstars wheelchairs, but surely its not rocket science to operate them. :ugh:

Also, its a wonder how the media didnt find a way to turn this back on Qantas... everything else seens to be their fault! :}

Jet-A-One
24th Nov 2009, 00:49
Like so many other customer service complaints in this industry, it would be avoided if pax read the back of their ticket or the terms and conditions when they book online.

Maybe after he reviews the terms and conditions the apologies will flow in the other direction...

Angle of Attack
24th Nov 2009, 01:00
There seems to be some confusion about policy here. Jetstar required the pax to check in their Wheelchair at check in, while apparently their policy is pax can take wheelchairs to the boarding gate similar to QF and that includes domestic let you remain in your own chair all the way to the aircraft door then you make your way to the seat via aisle chair or assistance depending on the passengers mobility. I am pretty sure Virgin also do this. Ground staff put the chair in the hold then their own chair is there waiting for them at the aircraft door at destination. I don't think anyone is suggesting a passenger enters the aircraft in their own chair, no one does that besides it wouldn't fit!
Seems the groundstaff on this occasion improperly required him to check in the chair while policy is they can remain with it until boarding.

Dark Knight
24th Nov 2009, 01:06
Another whinger getting his 3 minutes of media fame!

Tough enough to crawl the Kokoda track but unable put up with ten minutes in a wheelchair specifically designed to fit within the confined spaces in an aircraft aisle.

Australia has very enlightened policies for disabled people compared to most parts of the world.

However, here is the real shocking and distressing news for Kurt.

He is not going to be allocated an exit row seat as legislation requires able bodied persons (generally male) be given these seats to assist in opening exits in the event of an emergency. Should a serious emergency occur disabled people will be the last people flight attendants will attempt to assist from a burning aircraft.

Should a disabled person attempt to get out of their seat to go to an exit, their fellow passengers (humans) will use them as stepping stones as they rush to get out.

Does not how much you whinge, legislate or attend the Human Rights Commission that, by the very nature of the human is the way it will and has happened.


Maybe should FA's be trained in Dwarf Tossing they may be better equipped to assist disabled pax!!


DK

dizzylizzy
24th Nov 2009, 02:16
Reminds me of a dwarf pax who asked to be seated at exit row....

Muff Hunter
24th Nov 2009, 02:21
after such a heroic effort to walk the kokada track, he has made a goose of himself and others by going down this path.

he and others alike need to realise that the airlines have these procedures in place for a reason.....

anyhow, i hope it doesn't detract from his amazing feat!!

fatbus
24th Nov 2009, 02:30
Self propelled chairs need to be prepared prior to loading , this would be the reason for taking at the check in. He would be provided someone form the airline to assist him from that point to the A/C if he was travailing alone . Made a big scene for PR

QF DRIVE
24th Nov 2009, 03:03
What a wind up. The wheelchairs are taken at check in because of OH&S requirements that stop the loaders from taking the wheelchair from the gate, down stairs to the tarmac for loading.

This guy admits he was offered a wheelchair to the gate but declined.

My information is that he did not crawl across the tarmac as the aircraft departed from an airbridge.

Jabawocky
24th Nov 2009, 03:48
If he is that good......... he could have walked to NTL :}

Why do the media give idiots like this the time of day :ugh:

Exceptional
24th Nov 2009, 03:49
He's an idiot.

Never let the facts get in the way of a bloody good story.

Mr and Mrs Today Tonight viewer will enjoy this one for sure.

beaver_rotate
24th Nov 2009, 04:19
What a nob! Disabled or not

b_sta
24th Nov 2009, 04:25
Total drama queen, sad considering his other achievements.

Jet-A-One
24th Nov 2009, 04:28
Maybe he expects the porters to carry his wheelchair down the rickety stairs on the aerobridge. Against OH&S rules and at the risk of another person injuring themselves and ending up disabled.

eye_in_the_sky
24th Nov 2009, 05:45
ahhhh yes, in these wonderous times of political correctness, it would be refreshing to see a company come out and say exactly what every reasonable person is thinking -- "you were offered assistance, you declined and behaved like a goose, pull your head in."\

blah blah blah.....

Angle of Attack
24th Nov 2009, 06:42
With all due respect what is all this nonsense about OH&S? Jetstars policy as is QF's as is DJ's is pax can go to the door of the aircraft with their own wheelchair and then make their way to the seat either assisted or with an Aisle Wheelchair. Obviously if he had an electric Wheelchair fair enough but this fact has not come out yet. They need to be checked in according to Dangerous Goods guidelines. I am not sure but looking at the pics in the media his chair appears to be a normal one (ie not electric). If that is the case Jetstar stuffed up by making him check in the chair when it is policy not to. Where did this OH&S stuff come from all airlines do it! (cary wheelchair from aerobridge to hold)
I stand to be corrected but my opinion to many fools are commenting on something they have no idea about. As a sidenote Jetstar have admitted the staff in BNE did not follow their policy and they are investigating, sheez!

:ugh:

From ABC News

The airline is now trying to clarify why Fearnley was prevented from using his own wheelchair after checking in at Brisbane Airport.

Normally disabled passengers are allowed to take their own wheelchairs to the gate before being transferred to the airline's wheelchair for boarding

Jetstar's head of corporate relations, Simon Westaway, says the processing of the chair was done at the check-in rather than at the gate.

ditch handle
24th Nov 2009, 06:47
Angle of Attack has hit the nail on the head.

missing link
24th Nov 2009, 08:27
Whatever - the guy is a tool just looking for more publisity

Angle of Attack
24th Nov 2009, 09:02
Missing Link, I am not normally a spelling Nazi but please..not only your post but check your location in your profile lol! :ok:

p.j.m
24th Nov 2009, 09:12
Seems some reporter must have an axe to grind with Jetstar.

I saw the interview with the guy and as others have said, he is a tool, just after publicity.

He was offered a Jetstar wheelchair, but decided to throw a tantrum because he wanted to use his own wheelchair (which actually looked more like a skateboard on steroids, than a wheelchair).

Rather than use the supplied wheelchair, he decided to crawl to the seat on his own and make a huge scene, and whinge that he wasn't able to do whatever he wanted to do, and was forced to follow the rules!

If it was me, I'd have banned him from the flight altogether as he is obviously a troublemaker.

I saw the statistics, but I can't remember the actual number, they said they carry something like 700 wheelchair passengers a week, and this guy is the only one to have any issues.

Angle of Attack
24th Nov 2009, 09:19
p.j.m

you can't be serious?
Jetstar didn't follow policy with this pax's situation and he is a tool?

If it was me, I'd have banned him from the flight altogether as he is obviously a troublemaker.

If I was a moderator I would banish you from these forums for such a factually incorrect post!

He was offered a Jetstar wheelchair, but decided to throw a tantrum because he wanted to use his own wheelchair (which actually looked more like a skateboard on steroids, than a wheelchair).


Because as previously stated Jetstar stuffed up! They should have allowed him to keep his wheelchair to the gate just like ALL other airlines. Again I need to

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Jet-A-One
24th Nov 2009, 09:30
"Jetstar provides customers with a wheelchair in which to transfer at check-in"

If he read the terms and conditions there would have been NO confusion. :ugh:

p.j.m
24th Nov 2009, 09:33
Because as previously stated Jetstar stuffed up! They should have allowed him to keep his wheelchair to the gate just like ALL other airlines.

Seems some people are too easily fooled by a media beatup!

I don't know the full story, but from what I saw of the PAX making a fool of himself in the interview and what I did glean from the news (not from the media beatup) the airline did not do anything wrong, however the PAX took exception to not being allowed to have his own way, and use his own "special design" wheelchair.

He's probably used to getting everything he wants due to his condition, and when he was set straight, he had a tantrum.

Media having a slow day, think "airline vs cripple" = good headlines.

wirgin blew
24th Nov 2009, 09:37
Angle at least someone around here has some common sense.
As for the other fools, the wheelchair that he sits in when he is not in bed is a part of him not just a mode of transport. That chair which probably cost him a pretty penny means that he doesn't need even an aisle chair to get on board as he can probably self transfer from his chair to an aircraft seat anyway. Most aircraft doors are wide enough for any wheelchair to fit through. Especially the 737, a320 size ones.
Possibly a similar fool like the ones here have taken his chair from him well before required by procedure whether that be anti-discrimination, OH&S or other.
As for an evacuation chances are he would be off just as fast as the rest but he wouldn't be clutching his Gucci handbag as he went down the slide.
As for the 700 wheelchairs per week 95% of those are elderly and probably have no trouble walking to the buffet if required but when they get to the airport its suddenly to far to walk.
Some of you so called "professionals" need to get out in the real world from time to time. :ugh:

ditch handle
24th Nov 2009, 09:41
Perhaps I shouldn't be but I have to admit to being a little stunned at the number of small minded idiots around here. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

emal140
24th Nov 2009, 09:44
p.j.m

Perhaps one day when you have some unfortunate accident or some other cause that restricts you in life to permanent use of a wheelchair, you may want to reread your post and see if you still agree with your 'considered opinion' . A wheelchair is a persons personal independence and mobility freedom.

Grow up....

p.j.m
24th Nov 2009, 10:06
A wheelchair is a persons personal independence and mobility freedom

Very strange how hundreds of wheelchair passengers fly every day/week without drama, yet when one prima donna gets on his high horse, because he doesn't want to follow the rules, so many people automatically jump to defend him just because he's a cripple.

This guys is obviously far more mobile than your average wheelchair user, in fact he even dragged himself along the Kokoda track under his own steam (NOT using a wheelchair) just to prove a point.

He was offered an airline wheelchair - which is standard practice, but he chose to make a scene, and demand he get his own way, and do what he wanted.

Sorry all you bleeding hearts, this guy is nothing more than a whinging troublemaker, and if I owned Jetstar I'd permanently ban him from flying on the airline ever again.

sunnySA
24th Nov 2009, 10:46
I know of a passenger who advised Jetstar that they would need a wheel chair (broken foot). Jetstar said "sorry you can't travel on that flight because the quota of wheelchair passengers would be exceeded" - solution, travel the next day and pay the fare difference!!

Silverado
24th Nov 2009, 11:49
Was he given a conventional wheelchair to get to the gate or one specific for aircraft aisle's?

Ideally he would have been given a conventional wheelchair at check-in, which he could have then wheeled himself around the terminal and to the airbridge, then transfered to the aircraft wheelchair, which has no means to self-propel and are not as stable.

carpe_jugulum
24th Nov 2009, 11:52
Am I missing anything, but to get to Kokoda the protagonist in question presumably caught a J* flight from NTL(no aerobridges - so he may have been emplaned via a forklift/highlift, or indeed hopped up the stairs), went so SY or BN(aerobridge) - hopped on QF or ANG(aerobridge), then on a Twotter(stinking humid tarmac) to Kokoda(dirt/mud), done the Kokoda track(well done:ok:, but generally not a recognised wheelchair accessible location)
Reverse that to come home - possibly via Cairns.

Why is he now complaining about wheelchair access?

601
24th Nov 2009, 12:19
Looks like Jetstar spokespersons need to read their own passenger information on their web site
Wheelchairs - At the airport

All customers travelling with a wheelchair must check-in 2 hours prior to flights departing from a domestic terminal and 3 hours prior to flights departing from an international terminal.

Jetstar provides customers with a wheelchair in which to transfer at check-in.Jetstar customer service staff will assist in the transfer into the wheelchair, using Jetstar's approved transfer method of slide boards and slide cloths.

If required, a Jetstar customer service staff member will then escort a customer who requires wheelchair assistance from check-in through security to their boarding gate. If the customer is travelling with a carer/companion who is willing to escort the customer, a Jetstar customer service staff member will organise to meet the customer(s) at the boarding gate.

Baggage: The customer's wheelchair must be checked-in as baggage. Wheelchairs or mobility aids are carried free of charge on Jetstar services and are carried in addition to the baggage allowances applicable to the customer's travel itinerary. When a customer has more than one wheelchair or mobility aid(s), the second mobility aid will be charged as excess baggage. This includes wheelchairs, electric wheelchairs and electric scooters.

Even I can understand that.

404 Titan
24th Nov 2009, 12:45
Some people just donít get it. For most paraplegics, independence is a fiercely cherished ability. You remove that independence, especially with a wheelchair that canít be propelled by themselves, i.e. aisle wheelchairs, you are taking away something extremely important to them.

It is also interesting to see which airlines let special needs pax use their wheelchairs to the boarding gate and/or aircraft door and those that couldnít be bothered going that extra mile and be more considerate. Jetstar and Tiger should hold their heads in shame.

Cathay Pacific
Passengers travelling with wheelchair
Passengers with a disability may use their own manual or electrical wheelchair to the departure gate, and when airport facilities permit, to the aircraft door.

Virgin Blue
Travelling with a Manual Wheelchair: You can either check-in your manual wheelchair and we will provide you with an airport aisle wheelchair or self-propelled wheelchair for use within the airport or, where possible, you can choose to take your own manual wheelchair to the boarding gate. Your wheelchair will then be stowed in the aircraft hold.

Qantas
Mobility Aids and Wheelchairs
ē You may surrender your mobility aid at check-in or at the departure gate where appropriate assistance will be provided to you.
ē You may choose to have your mobility aid delivered to you at the gate lounge upon arrival or you may collect it from the baggage collection area.
ē When travelling on narrow-bodied aircraft, your mobility aid will need to meet the specified size dimensions when adjusted or broken down for that aircraft type.
ē Note: whilst all reasonable care will be taken, you remain responsible for obtaining insurance in relation to the carriage of your mobility aid.

Jetstar
Wheelchairs - At the airport

All customers travelling with a wheelchair must check-in 2 hours prior to flights departing from a domestic terminal and 3 hours prior to flights departing from an international terminal.

Jetstar provides customers with a wheelchair in which to transfer at check-in. Jetstar customer service staff will assist in the transfer into the wheelchair, using Jetstar's approved transfer method of slide boards and slide cloths.

If required, a Jetstar customer service staff member will then escort a customer who requires wheelchair assistance from check-in through security to their boarding gate. If the customer is travelling with a carer/companion who is willing to escort the customer, a Jetstar customer service staff member will organise to meet the customer(s) at the boarding gate.

Baggage: The customer's wheelchair must be checked-in as baggage. Wheelchairs or mobility aids are carried free of charge on Jetstar services and are carried in addition to the baggage allowances applicable to the customer's travel itinerary. When a customer has more than one wheelchair or mobility aid(s), the second mobility aid will be charged as excess baggage. This includes wheelchairs, electric wheelchairs and electric scooters.

Tiger
Mobility Aids and Wheelchairs

Passengers' own wheelchairs will be carried free of charge, in addition to their normal baggage allowance, but must be checked in.

Wheelchairs that are powered by sealed, non-spillable batteries are accepted for carriage. Wheelchairs with un-sealed, spillable batteries will not be accepted.

All powered wheelchairs must be checked through and comply with relevant battery connection/disconnection requirements.

You must advise us whether you are able to board using steps or whether you require a wheelchair from check-in to the aircraft.

For Australia, we are able to provide a manual wheelchair to convey you from check-in to the aircraft, at which point a lifting device will be available, if previously requested (in the absence of an aero-bridge). Our crew can then assist in transferring you to an aisle wheelchair and from an aisle wheelchair to your seat. At your destination we will similarly transfer you from your seat and supply a lifting device and manual wheelchair for disembarkation, if previously arranged. Your wheelchair will then be delivered to you at the baggage collection point.

Our crewís ability to assist is subject to compliance with mandated Occupational Health and Safety Regulations in Australia as to the maximum permissible weight of a passenger for lifting (130kgs) and the mobility status of the passenger (eg a full lift of a passenger compared to passengers able to partially lift themselves, and whether assistance is available from a carer, if applicable).

For Tiger Singapore flights, there will be a charge for assistance in respect of wheelchair and other services required from check in to embarkation if previously requested. There may be local unavailability of a lifting device or weight restrictions applicable to the use of devices and the ability of our crew to provide direct lifting assistance. Fees may be applicable for some devices.

haughtney1
24th Nov 2009, 16:50
Sounds like a dumbass customer service policy written with more thought to corporate laziness than customer satisfaction.
As for the numpties that think taking a wheel chair down the stairs on the airbridge is a bad idea...how about doing what they do in other parts of the world where the weather is a little less benign than Oz (i.e. ice, snow etc) and use the bloody stairs that you will find somewhere at the top of the airbridge (i.e. the bit connected to the terminal)

Jetstar..get your ducks in a row

Exceptional
24th Nov 2009, 19:12
He dragged himselfalong the Kokoda Trail. I can barely drag myself out of bed some days.

Anyone in frontline Customer Service knows what a Tool this guy really is.
Maybe Virgin or Tiger could better suit his needs.

QF DRIVE
24th Nov 2009, 19:41
The QF terminal in BNE is one of the worst designed terminals in the world for disabled people. A wheelchair passenger goes on a tiki tour to get to the gate.

There is more to this that meets the eye as I believe that Mr Fearnley has an ongoing dispute with Brisbane Airport (BACL) over disabled access.

p.j.m
24th Nov 2009, 20:57
Anyone in frontline Customer Service knows what a Tool this guy really is. Exactly, If I turned up with a huge 3 wheel pram, or 5 pieces of "carry on" luggage, I would not be allowed to take them aboard. I'd have to follow the rules.

Just because this guy think's he's "special", doesn't mean he is.

It was his own decision not to use the supplied Jetstar wheelchair (which is designed to fit the aisles and be properly stored when not in use, and attempt to bring something non-standard and specifically excluded from the cabin onboard), and instead to "drag" himself to the aircraft under his own steam, same as he did the whole length of the Kakoda trail.

There is no story here, just a media beatup and a bunch of bleeding hearts.

404 Titan
24th Nov 2009, 21:11
p.j.m

No there is a story here. It is your airlines ďJetstarísĒ dumb ass policy that is the story here. It just took someone with a megaphone to point it out to you. This applies equally to Tiger and any other dumb ass airline that doesnít allow a wheelchair bound passenger the dignity to use their own wheelchair under their own steam to at least the gate. If you canít see that and you are actually in customer service god help your airline.:yuk:

Douglas Mcdonnell
24th Nov 2009, 21:31
The aircraft are loaded with cans. If he took his own chair to the aircraft he would then hold up the entire flight whilst his chair is then loaded under the terminal. The cans are not usually opened on the tarmac due to security practices. I guess it could have gone in the bulk hold but there is always more of a chance of damage due turbulence in the bulk.

It screams out publicity scam to me. After walking the track then CHOOSING to transport himself through the terminal and out to the aircraft you wouldn't think that another couple of hundred meters would matter.

This bloke has made a class 1 fool of himself in most peoples eyes and unfortunately conforms to the lowest common denominator of airline pax these days, disabled or not.

Doug.

OlAME
24th Nov 2009, 21:44
I admire his tenacity , he got plenty of attention for disability causes. As one would expect the media played it for all they could . I have met many lowlifes during my time , its funny how many are Journo's.I noticed it did not take long for Bill Shorten to jump on the bandwagon , what a joke he is !

404 Titan
24th Nov 2009, 21:49
Douglas Mcdonnell

If other airlines can do it then why canít Jetstar and Tiger. You are all required to comply with the same ramp security requirements. Remember Jetstarís policy is that someone in a wheelchair must check in 2 hours before departure for domestic a 3 hours for international. Your really think a Jetstar staff member will stay with him for the entire 2-3 hours. Get real.

This is a classic case of a dumb ass policy thought up by a dumb ass pencil pusher. Itís a shame some of its front line staff canít see that.:yuk:

DutchRoll
24th Nov 2009, 22:00
Is there a bloody prize for ignorance on PPrune?

QF: I have either been right at the entrance door or have seen from within the cockpit, disabled passengers on numerous occasions transferred from their own wheelchair into the aisle chair (so they can get up the aisle to the seat) at the aircraft door. Both coming and going.

The A320 has containers as do many other aircraft. But all of them have the capacity to load bulk cargo, which is normally how passenger's personal wheelchairs are loaded.

If I only had a dollar for every time I have sent an ACARS to QF dispatch saying "pax whlchr in bulk hold...pls bring to dr". Translation for the bloody ignorant: "we have a passenger's personal wheelchair loaded in the bulk hold. Could you please unload immediately on arrival and bring to aircraft door at aerobridge".

He may well be an obnoxious prat, but then JQ can be an obnoxious prat of a company sometimes too.

rmcdonal
24th Nov 2009, 22:58
He could have chosen to fly with an airline with a different wheel chair policy.

Mr. Hat
24th Nov 2009, 23:15
How many thousands of disabled people have flown with jetstar and not had a problem? He raises some good points regarding the policy but I have to say that his speech regarding the matter was more akin to an auschwitz survivor.

The Kokoda thing impressed me I have to say but the Jetstar issue changed my mind to think he is a pretentious little whinger. No problem for the content of what he said but the delivery...Come on mate harden up hey.

I thought the Jetstar media people handled it well. As in "this is how policy and procedure is changed".

brown_hornet
24th Nov 2009, 23:31
Whether or not the policy was adhered to by the customer service staff or not, I am still in disbeleif that this actually made the NEWS! Give me a break. Maybe I'll run to the media next time I'm forced to take off my belt, shoes, hat, take the calculator out of my shirt pocket and hand over the half empty toothpaste tube before going through security as a pilot! But that's right, nobody cares! Whether Jetstar was in the right or wrong, this story (pax complaint) should never have left the airport really....:hmm:

404 Titan
25th Nov 2009, 00:55
Sometimes people it takes a megaphone to be heard in this world. The very fact the company was forced into an embarrassing apology and rethinking of their own policy is testimony to its effectiveness and also their bloody mindedness for having such a policy in the first place.

Some people ought to know when it is time to criticise their own company rather than criticise someone for standing up against something that is just plainly wrong.

hoss58
25th Nov 2009, 00:58
Gooday Titan 404

"This is a classic case of a dumb ass policy thought up by a dumb ass pencil pusher. Itís a shame some of its front line staff canít see that.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif"

I read your quotes re wheelchair policies and while i am not saying i agree with J*'s policiy to me the the point is that at the time the booking was made and at the time of travel a wheelchair policy was in place. I am assuming (possibily a big mistake, i know) that the policies you quoted were taken from the respective airlines sites.

Having made such a bold assumption the question i would ask is why give the front line staff grief for followong current policy. If you believe something is wrong by all means take appropriate steps to have the situation changed. Until then you need to play by the current rules.

We all have choices as did this pax. Did he read the fine print, possibily not, I know I have been guilty of this. The point I am making is he could have chosen another airline if he was not happy with the terms and conditions of travel for J*

Fly safe and play hard

Hoss58

Douglas Mcdonnell
25th Nov 2009, 01:03
404 titan, "dumbass". Says it all really.

D

p.j.m
25th Nov 2009, 01:21
The very fact the company was forced into an embarrassing apology and rethinking of their own policy is testimony to its effectiveness and also their bloody mindedness for having such a policy in the first place.

The fact that they made an apology has nothing to do with the policy, and everything to do with "political correctness", the media beatup and attempting to minimise damage to their reputation.

The correct thing to do, would have been to sue the newpapers and media for defamation and to ban the troublemaker from flying on their airline.

We all know in this day and age, sometimes it is just not worth the time and effort, and the quickest and most expedient thing to do was to send in their PR people so smooth over the troubled waters.

404 Titan
25th Nov 2009, 01:53
hoss58

My criticism was directed at people like ďp.j.mĒ who quite frankly disgust me, not at the frontline staff in general. How someone like ďp.j.mĒ can work at the coal face of a customer orientated industry is beyond me. Having had a mother who worked voluntarily for years with the ďHouse With No StepsĒ, my understanding of how wheelchair bound people think is particularly acute. I accept it is a shame the check in staff had to deal with this but blame should be squarely laid with the idiot high up in Jetstar that dreamt up this dumbass (eat your heart out Douglas Mcdonnell) rule.

Yes all the airlines wheelchair policies were from the respective airlines web sights. Most were quite easy to find, mind you Jetstarís was a little bit more difficult being hidden away in a separate link.

cavemanzk
25th Nov 2009, 03:16
Maybe he should try fly NZ then, They have a policy that Crew & Ground staff must not lift passengers.

YoDawg
25th Nov 2009, 04:16
In recognition of this tool's suffering, on this day every year all JetScar crew should be made to crawl to and from their aircraft. Wheely-bags trailing behind them with rope.


took off on his own to the John


That would've been quite a job from the floor.

p.j.m
25th Nov 2009, 04:23
If I only had a dollar for every time I have sent an ACARS to QF dispatch saying "pax whlchr in bulk hold...pls bring to dr". Translation for the bloody ignorant: "we have a passenger's personal wheelchair loaded in the bulk hold. Could you please unload immediately on arrival and bring to aircraft door at aerobridge".

Well if you were in Sydney you'd have made maybe $10 in the last 3 months! and that is for EVERY airline, not just QF. And a few more dollars if you included the requests for "aisle" chairs from the terminal.


WH/CH 02 UN/MNR 00
1 AISLE CHAIR PLS. AL
SO INF ENG THE LEAK I
N F GALLEY NEED ATN

---------------------
WHLCHR 06 / MED
ASST MINORS PEJ
SICK N
SI GOOD A/C
6 WCH IN HOLD

---------------------

WHLCHR 02 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI 1 AISLE WCR. BOTH PAX
HAVE WCHR IN HOLD.

---------------------

HI ADL 01 AISLE Cl`hR
NEEDED PLSE + 1 WLCHR
IN HOLD. C YOU SOON

---------------------

WH/CH 01 UN/MNR 00
GDAY. 1 AISLE CHR AND
PAX CHR IN HOLD PLS.
ALSO GND PWR AND AIR

---------------------

WHLCHR 01 /00MED
ASST 00MINORS 00PAX
SICK N
SI GDAY. AISLE CHAIR PLS
AND PAX WCHR IN HOLD.
THANKS

---------------------

ARI
SYD ETAB 06:10
WH/CH 02 UN/MNR 01
HOLDING... DOH...

---------------------

WHLCHR 03 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI 1 PEOPLE MOVER
1NWC
2 WC 1 IN HOLD
A/C OK

---------------------

WHLCHR 03 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI 1/W/C PAX NEEDS AISLE
W/C AND OWN W/C FROM
HOLD

---------------------

WHLCHR 02 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI REQ AISLE CHAIRS

---------------------

WHLCHR 02 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI 1 ISLE CHAIR PLS

---------------------

NEED 1 ISLE CHAIR. ALS
K10Y/P.
NOW DELAYED ETA 0 20
NOW NEED M/A

---------------------

WHEEL CHAIR IN HOLD PLEA
SE BRING UP TO GATE

---------------------

WHLCHR 01 /00MED
ASST 00MINORS 00PAX
SICK N
SI GDAY. AISLE CHAIR PLS
AND PAX WCHR IN HOLD.
THANKS

---------------------

/WCHR /UMNR /MAAS N
HI AGAIN.CE HAVE AN AIS
LE CHAIR ON BOARD.
THANKS

---------------------

ASST MINORS PAX
SICK N
SI PLS HAVE AISLE CHAIR AND
WLCHR FROM HOLD. TKS

---------------------

WHLCHR 02 /00lED
ASST 00MINORS 00PAX
SICc N
SI ONE CHAIR IN BULK HOLD
PLS BRING TO FRONT DOOR.
THANKS

---------------------

BNE ETAB 20:30
WH/CH 01 UN/MNR 00
HI AISLE CHAIR PLS

---------------------
WHLCHR 02 / MED
ASST MINORS PAX
Sici N
SI01 AISLE CHAIR. OTHER CAN
WALK TO DOOR. THANKS

---------------------

WHLCHR 01 /00MED
ASST 00MINORS 00PAX
SICK N
SI CHAIR 2 DOOR + PXLE

404 Titan
25th Nov 2009, 06:22
p.j.m

Not all airlines use ACARS for MAA. At my airline itís all done from IOC in HK. All we need to know as cockpit crew is that we have them on board.

By the way there is a difference between a paraplegic and someone who is old. One god forbid hopefully will never happen to any of us, the other eventually will.

zube

If thatís trying to be humorous it has fallen flat. I canít believe some of you actually work in this industry. It makes me sick.:yuk:

Jet-A-One
25th Nov 2009, 09:52
Bleeding hearts make me sick.:yuk:

teresa green
25th Nov 2009, 10:44
All the bloke needed was a set of wheels to get him to the aircraft. He was offered a set when his own went into the hold, he refused. The bloke is probably more used to international flights as he competes in marathons the world over, and as we all know the turnaround on international flights is far different to domestic.The staff at Jetstar knew who the bloke was and tried to accomodate him, he in turn acted like a turkey, and spat his dummy, and started dragging himself around the airport, which distressed the staff who were only following the airline regulations, which make sense to me, to assist turnaround. In all my years of flying I saw them come on in splints, stroke victims, people with kidney machines, accident cases, and most only cared about going home, and didnt' care if you lowered them thru a window, as long as they were on the aircraft and going home. You can betcha this bloke is now hitched up to Harry M Miller and is looking for publicity good or bad. Sorry 404 add me to your bad books.:(

OZBUSDRIVER
25th Nov 2009, 10:55
There appears to be two sides of the story...only one side got aired in a very public very national forum in front of the PM, his missus and a lot of parliamentary heavyweights....on that reqard....there is a time and a place to make a compliant and a national award presentation speach is not the right forum....right or wrong, the deathstar was painted into a very tight corner.

The guy is an outstanding person....right up to the point he aired his complaint in front of a crowd of dignitaries. After that? I lost all interest in the guy.:=

fritzandsauce
25th Nov 2009, 10:56
One of the newspapers reported his brother was there and that at one stage his brother carried him on his back ... So all this jazz about not being able to control the provided wheelchair is nonsense when his brother could of easily pushed him around!

ditch handle
25th Nov 2009, 11:56
Mr Fearnely made no complaints about the staff whatsoever.

My understanding is that he was most complimentary about the way he was treated by the ground staff.

Those who can't [won't?] see that his issue is with management and their bloody minded Jetstar policy and nothing more, really can't see the wood for the trees.

Those who bag him for taking a stand about having his "legs" [read wheelchair] taken from him before it was necessary have an obvious inability to see life beyond their own experiences.

Quite sad really.

404 Titan
25th Nov 2009, 12:05
Cactusjack
I won't disect all the comments in this thread
I suggest you do. No one is disputing that a personal wheelchair wonít fit down an aircraft aisle or lifter. The point here is that most airlines allow wheelchair bound pax to use their own wheelchair to at least the gate and in some cases the aircraft door. It is only Jetstar and Tiger that are so bloody minded that they make these pax check their wheelchairs in at check in and use a chair that requires someone else to propel them around for the next hour or two. If you canít see that to some this is incredibly demeaning then you are incredibly ignorant of paraplegics and there passionate desire for independence. Just like what they use to have and we ably bodied all take for granted.

So some of you donít like how he made a big deal of it in front of the media and the Prime Minister. Get over it. He used the loudest megaphone he had and by doing so he made Jetstar management sit up and take notice. Do you thing for one minute the policy would have changed if he hadnít done what he did? Of course not.

ditch handle

Thank you.

captaintunedog777
25th Nov 2009, 20:48
Cactus Jack

Most of what you have written is garbage. 1 point I agree on. This clowns actions.

In future try and write a little less. I fell asleep reading through it. Crapy airports. So what they are cheap and as for LCC terms and conditions. They are spelt out. 1 to 200 hundred dollar airfares and making a quick buck. You got to be kidding me.

Actually one word sums up your posting

BORING:ok:

moa999
25th Nov 2009, 21:44
I note the comments re he had no complaints about the staff, but more JQs policy - which operates as an LCC

Perhaps Mr Fearnley would like 2 or 3 staff scanning boarding passes rather than 1,
and five minutes before gate close (ignoring closing gate procedures checking and double counting), 1 staff member gives him a shoulder massage while the other 1 transfers him into the specially designed, padded and silk lined chair for on boarding, whilst the other staff personally take his wheelchair down to the ramp, wrap it in cotton wool and gently place it in the hold.

Then at the other end ...

404 Titan
25th Nov 2009, 22:45
moa999

So what. If the two largest LCCís in the world can let a disabled passenger take their own wheelchair to the gate or aircraft why canít Jetstar? Even their competition Virgin Blue allows is.

Ryanair

Q: Can I bring my own wheelchair/mobility scooter or walking frame?
________________________________________
At the majority of airports you will be permitted to travel to the steps of the aircraft in your own wheelchair, however, some airports such at Girona in Spain do not permit passenger travelling with a battery operated wheelchair to take their own chair to the aircraft and as such it must be checked in and the passenger will be transported to the boarding gate via an airport wheelchair.
Wheelchairs, mobility scooters and walking frames are carried free of charge The 32kg maximum single item weight does not apply to mobility equipment. Restrictions apply to the transportation of battery-operated wheelchairs. Electric Wheelchairs can only be accepted on the basis that the battery is a dry or gel cell and the dimension of the wheelchair when collapsed will not be greater than the combined dimensions of more than 81cms (height), 119cms (width) and 119cms (depth). The passenger must show how the battery power is to be isolated and ensure that exposed terminals will be protected from short circuiting. The battery must also be securely attached to the wheelchair or mobility device.
Wheelchairs or mobility devices with spillable batteries cannot be carried. Segways cannot be carried.

Southwest Airlines

Manual and Power Wheelchairs

Southwest will stow wheelchairs in the aircraft cabin as long as they can be stowed in accordance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) safety guidelines. Each aircraft is equipped with a specially designed wheelchair storage compartment to allow in-cabin stowage of at least one standard-size adult collapsible wheelchair. The wheelchair compartment is located in the rear of the aircraft and is available for Customer use on a first-come, first-served basis.

Virgin Blue

Travelling with a Manual Wheelchair: You can either check-in your manual wheelchair and we will provide you with an airport aisle wheelchair or self-propelled wheelchair for use within the airport or, where possible, you can choose to take your own manual wheelchair to the boarding gate. Your wheelchair will then be stowed in the aircraft hold.

777WakeTurbz
26th Nov 2009, 00:51
This discussion has become quite heated, which isnt in itself a problem, but the attacks are getting a bit personal over peoples opinions, which like ar$eholes, everyone has and not everyone will agree with them.

Right or Wrong, Policy or OH&S the fact of the matter is that he made an absolute tool of himself by causing a scene which was not necessary, and then to go on stage later on and accept an award, then proceed to blast Jetstar again was absolute horsesh!t just to get some more media attention! :yuk:

NOONE forced him to crawl through a toilet, NOONE forced him to crawl to the aircraft, HE made that decision himself! :ugh:

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 02:03
777WakeTurbz

You just donít get it. If you want to see how passionate paraplegics are about their independence go and visit one of the many charities that look after their interests. Mr Fearnely hasnít got to where he is by just sitting back and accepting he is a paraplegic and will never walk again. He has fought for his independence and obviously excels at it. His achievements speak for themselves. If you canít see how humiliating it is for someone like him to have that independence taken away from them then you are ignorant to their plight. The embarrassment he may have caused himself by crawling through the terminal is nothing to the humiliation of loosing his independence.

pcx
26th Nov 2009, 03:11
Jetstar publishes their wheelchair policy.
It is available for every one to read.
Certainly someone in a wheel chair could be expected to make enquiries at the time of booking.
If Jetstar's wheelchair policy was not acceptable to Mr Fearnley he should have either booked with another carrier, or, at the time of booking, attempted to negotiate a suitable arrangement for himself.
To behave the way he did is unacceptable and just demeans him.
Not only that but he will have caused unnecessary distress to the Jetstar staff who were following their company policy and more than likely embarrassed a large number of other passengers and staff who had to witness his performance.
To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason. Since he chose to fly Jetstar this was one of them.
If he feels that Jetstar's policy is discriminatory or demeaning then,by all means, he should try to have it changed. This was not an appropriate way.
By the way, I do not like some of Jetstar's policies so I do not and will not fly with them. Should I ever decide to do so I will be acknowledging the policies and accepting them. To subsequently try to have them changed at the check in counter in just not on.

Ken Borough
26th Nov 2009, 03:15
Some of you just don't get it.:ugh::ugh:

Anything that makes life easier for those who don't enjoy the full use of their faculties and facilities (mind and body) deserve all the help in the world. We live in a civilised society (I think) so we should treat our fellow men as we ourselves would like to be treated. In this case, why wasn't "Qantas Group policy" followed like Jet* claim in other instances that make the public arena?

As I understand it, the fellow is neither a tool nor a fool: he has suffered a major disability since birth. Let's see how his critics fare if they had to rely on a wheelchair and the uncaring attitude of many. :mad::mad:

Boomerang_Butt
26th Nov 2009, 03:39
The point here is that most airlines allow wheelchair bound pax to use their own wheelchair to at least the gate

From the JQ policy shown on their own website, it would appear that JQ (at the time) did NOT fall under this category of 'most airlines'

I'm not saying JQ's policy was correct, but at the time Mr Fearney travelled the policy said 'at check-in'- so why complain that JQ were not following policy? I don't understand- I know several people in wheelchairs and they have said to me they prefer to transfer at check-in rather than be 'on the spot' at the gate in front of everyone else. I know each case is different but it seems to me that this man could have brought up his issues with the policy in a better way. Instead, they've taken the 'cheap shot' by targeting Jetstar for something that isn't their fault- his choice.

Sure you say they should be accommodating- they were. They offered an alternative, he chose not to use it. At the end of the day JQ are still a business and given that people want to fly on cheap fares, there are shorter turnarounds which mean less time to do things like take pax chairs at the gate. Maybe that's the reason for the policy of taking chairs at check-in?

We have a free choice when we travel and it's up to us to choose the best carrier to meet our needs. I hate being cramped up in a tiny seat and like some decent service so I pay more to fly Qantas or Singapore rather than use Tiger or Air Asia. That's my choice. If I flew Air Asia and got what was in the T&C's, I'd have no fallback to complain, even if it didn't meet 'my' standards.

Maybe the JQ policy should be changed, end of the story is they had nothing to apologise for if they followed their policy which was IN PLACE AT THE TIME and NOTED ON THE T&C's. Mr Fearnley admits the staff were fine, the resulting 'humiliation' was created by his own actions. I understand that wchr pax are dependent on their chairs... but we all are humans and we all need to accept help from others at some point in our lives. I think an apology should have gone both ways. Mr Fearnley could have raised his issues in a more civilised manner and I'm sure would have gained far more respect & attention for his cause for it.

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 03:47
pcx

To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason.
That is one of the dumbest thinks I have ever heard anyone say and speaks volumes to your incredible lack of compassion. I think itís about time some of you volunteered some of your time and go and work in a work shelter for the disabled. When you have then you can come back here and lecture us.

I couldnít give a flying f*ck that the conditions of wheelchairs was freely available. The point is the policy is wrong and it was brought to Jetstarís attention in the only way that they would take notice and do something about it. :yuk:

Boomerang_Butt
26th Nov 2009, 03:55
The policy is wrong

All respect but it seems to work fine for the majority of passengers travelling with wheelchairs that use JQ. Perhaps it needs to be refined but I wouldn't say it is outright WRONG...

OZBUSDRIVER
26th Nov 2009, 03:56
Fearney lost ALL creditability when he chose an award ceremony to air his dirty linen over the treatment he received from the deathstar. Regardless of the causes of the complaint, Fearney showed CONTEMPT for the assembled guests at that ceremony...in my opinion a far worse case of humiliation than his antics at the airport.

I choose not to fly deathstar...my own choice! Early in the game deathstar treat ALL their customers like cr:mad: regardless of perceived disabilities...made up my mind then and have no need to change it...However, I am NOT going to stand up at a dining-in night and slag off at a company for alleged poor treatment...a situation totally unrelated to the event....Poor form on Fearney's part:hmm:

Mr. Hat
26th Nov 2009, 04:09
Absolutely spot on. He riduculed himself and embarrassed other people who have disabilities that go about their day as those without a disability. He's a spoilt little brat.

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 04:27
Boomerang_Butt

so why complain that JQ were not following policy?
Weíre not saying they werenít following policy. Weíre saying their policy was wrong.
I know several people in wheelchairs and they have said to me they prefer to transfer at check-in rather than be 'on the spot' at the gate in front of everyone else.
And all those airlines that I mentioned also allow disabled pax to transfer at check in if they so wish. Jetstar and Tiger donít give disabled pax any choice. So much for their advertising slogan ďCHOICESĒ.
I know each case is different but it seems to me that this man could have brought up his issues with the policy in a better way.
Iím sorry but it would have fallen on deaf ears. To get any large company to change a policy is like extracting teeth. Been there done that.
They offered an alternative, he chose not to use it.
Because it wasnít a self propelled wheelchair. It required someone to push it and if you have spent any time around paraplegics you would understand how some absolutely loath being pushed anywhere. A sense of loosing their independence and being a burden on society is what usually triggers this loathing.
At the end of the day JQ are still a business and given that people want to fly on cheap fares, there are shorter turnarounds which mean less time to do things like take pax chairs at the gate. Maybe that's the reason for the policy of taking chairs at check-in?
If Ryanair and Southwest Airline, two LCCís that Jetstar have modelled themselves on can offer this choice then so can Jetstar.
All respect but it seems to work fine for the majority of passengers travelling with wheelchairs that use JQ.
Most pax using wheelchairs aren't paraplegics. They're elderly pax with mobility issues who would prefer someone pushing them anyway.
Perhaps it needs to be refined but I wouldn't say it is outright WRONG...
It's outright wrong when it doesn't consider the special needs of parapligic pax.

Mr. Hat & OZBUSDRIVER

That is your opinion. I just donít agree with you.

Mr. Hat
26th Nov 2009, 04:32
Thats okay 404, I'm sure there are a million other things we would agree on. The good thing is for the sake of robust adult debate that neither of us feel inclined to start calling names or comparing aircraft sizes!

Boomerang_Butt
26th Nov 2009, 04:43
404, I do understand that some wheelchair users do not like being 'pushed everywhere'- however as I said sometimes we can't always have things the way we want and I'm sure there are plenty of people with other health issues who do not like other policies on air travel- for example, the requirements for oxygen on board, crew being unable to accept medication for storage, and so on.

Jetstar are not the only airline and while I sympathise with the difficulties of travel it's not always possible to please everyone and the man in discussion had the choice to use a carrier who would allow him to use his chair to the gate. My issue is not with the needs of this man it's with his attack on a company that on the day did the best they knew how. They had a policy in place and it can't please everyone. Most people who travel with them are happy with it. They tried to offer him alternatives which he didn't want, what else can they do, refuse to let him travel? That would have made an ever bigger issue than the one we have here! Jetstar have agreed to review the policy, however where will it end?

Mr Fearnley wanted to travel by air, there are certain things that happen in airports and for the convenience of travelling by air most people with disabilities are wiilling to make concessions to their 'independence' by relying on others. I applaud his desire to be independant and not a burden on anyone but the reality is it's just not possible to be completely self-reliant (whether you are able-bodied or rely on a wheelchair) it's human nature, the degree of assistance we need is different but we all need help in one way or another. I just disagree with his way of going about things, that's my opinion which obviously differs from yours and let's leave it at that.

Howard Hughes
26th Nov 2009, 04:58
Now let's see, this guy crawled the Kokoda Track then complained that he had to crawl to the aircraft, rather than be pushed in a wheelchair that was not his own? Let him crawl I say!:rolleyes:

The crew would have been well within their rights to leave a 'disruptive' passenger behind! Disabled, or not!;)

Next he'll be wanting the exit row seat!:eek:

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 05:18
Boomerang_Butt

As Iíve said his issue wasnít with the staff. He knew their arms were tied. It was with the company and a pointless policy. Can you tell me why the policy is there in the first place? If as I suspect it is commercial, it speak volumes of the calibre of JQ management or should I say lack of. This is a morality issue and it is plainly wrong that JQ require paraplegic pax to change wheelchairs ie their legs if you like before it is absolutely necessary for safety reasons.

Howard Hughes
Let him crawl I say!
Do you actually realise how that comment makes you sound? I donít like using the word but Bigoted isnít too strong Iím afraid.

p.j.m
26th Nov 2009, 05:45
Weíre not saying they werenít following policy. Weíre saying their policy was wrong.

404 - YOU seem to be the only one with a problem with this policy. The policy if fine and well documented, and is NOT a problem for the hundreds of TRULY disabled passengers you have no problems complying with it day in and day out.

Fearnley is pretty mobile on his own, and this is nothing more than a stunt for which he deserves condemnation for.

Your constant support for this moron, and bashing of Jetstar is getting very tiring.

ditch handle
26th Nov 2009, 05:52
and is NOT a problem for the hundreds of TRULY disabled passengers

"Truly disabled ?" !!!!!!!!

The bloke has no legs FFS.

Unbelievable, except that I'm reading it.:ugh:

There is clearly no point in trying to reason with this calibre of individual.

FWIW 404 Titan is not the only one arguing in support of this fellow and against this bloody minded Jetstar policy.

p.j.m
26th Nov 2009, 06:26
"Truly disabled ?" !!!!!!!!
The bloke has no legs FFS.

Most people in a wheelchair couldn't crawl out of bed. This guy "crawled" the whole Kakoda trail, and merrily across the tarmac without blinking an eye!.

ditch handle
26th Nov 2009, 06:30
I rest my case.

777WakeTurbz
26th Nov 2009, 06:53
404 Titan

I can understand how this probably did upset him to lose the bit of independence that he has in his wheelchair (He is obviously more independent than some able bodied people without it). But what I think most people are getting at is the scene he has made! For instance, how the hell does he compare it to you or me having our legs tied together, our pants pulled down and being carried through the terminal??? :confused:

My point was, OK fair enough maybe Jetstars policy isnt politically correct enough for some people with low tolerance levels (extreme in this case), maybe other Airlines have different policies (not really the point though, it is J* policy, even if bad policy for some reason or other).
But again, Right or Wrong on either parties case, his reaction and aftermath was not fair on staff only doing their jobs!

Another thing I dont know and am interested to know, did he not have family traveling with him or not? Why the scene if he had loved ones to help him through his very short deprivation of self propelled transport?

Im sure we can all agree to disagree on this but as much good as the guy has done in life with his situation, my opinion is he has shown what a poor personality he really has!

Boomerang_Butt
26th Nov 2009, 08:21
Yes I do suspect the reason is commercial Titan, I've already said I believe it is due to staffing levels and tight turnaround times. JQ do not pretend to be anything other than a LCC and to expect them to provide the same level of service as a full-service carrier (even if Virgin et al offer a 'gate check' for chairs) is beside the point... it's not what they choose to do and they documented it accordingly.

As far as I'm aware there's no legislation to say what level of support is meant to be there, aside from that it should. Jetstar choose to provide less support than say Cathay or Qantas (examples you cited earlier) Until there's a law that says pax must be allowed to transfer at the gate then certain airlines are going to err on the side of less manpower/time cost... Again I'm not saying it's 'morally' right but that's how it is.

QF have a well-known policy for supporting wheelchair pax, right down to the pamphlets they hand out at check-in asking questions such as 'How do you transfer' and 'When do you want to change chairs' or similar. Doesn't mean other airlines have to offer it, QF are just choosing to be more advanced in their approach.

I think the sad thing about this case is no-one's gonna remember him doing Kokoda in 10 years, he'll be remembered as the guy who 'threw a tantrum' (to quote commenters online) and his other achievements will be overshadowed by this. By all means he should try to change policy where it is lacking, but I have a feeling he's also aliented a lot of the disabled community by acting the way he has, who would otherwise have been behind his quest for reforms.

captaintunedog777
26th Nov 2009, 09:35
404 Titan

You are actually acting like a bigger fool than the clown in question. Get of the JQ bashing bandwagon. What did JQ knock you back or are you just a fence sitter having your little say. You are making all of us down under look like [email protected]#%heads to the rest of the aviation community over this ridiculous issue when it is obvious JQ did the best they could in this particular situation.
This is JQ policy. Get over it. It's their train set. If you don't like then f#@$ off. There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions who then have to listen or read this crap.

Another reject:D

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 10:07
Boomerang_Butt

So now that you have conceded that it is most likely for commercial reasons Jetstar requires disabled pax to surrender their wheelchairs at check-in, are you telling me it is morally right to profit off the backs of the disabled because this is exactly what they are doing. Why should there be a new law dictating what is essentially a morality issue. We should all know what is right or wrong. Do you honestly need the government to hold your hand for everything? Ryanair and Southwest, two of the most profitable LCCís in the world have chosen that it isnít acceptable but they manage to turn their aircraft around in just as short a time as Jetstar with the same staffing constraints. Maybe Jetstar needs to look at its boarding and ramp handling procedures if it is so frigging hard to put a wheelchair in the bulk cargo compartment at the last minute.

You may think his outburst will be all the public will remember in ten years time but the reality is that the public have short memories for everything.

I accept some may have an issue with Mr Fearnleyís method of delivery but I am god smacked that we are actually here debating the merits or otherwise of Jetstarís policy.

p.j.m

As for you ďp.j.mĒ, if you are actually in a customer orientated position, you are in the wrong line of work my friend. Your attitude is giving your airline a very bad name.

captaintunedog777
What did JQ knock you back
Youíre kidding arenít you? Why would I want to work for Jetstar? Never applied and never will. Actually thatís not entirely true. I applied to Impulse back in the mid 90ís and actually got the job and I knocked them back, twice.
Get of the JQ bashing bandwagon.
For the record I couldnít give a rats ar*e which airlines policy it was including my own airline, I would be just as vocal.
This is JQ policy. Get over it. It's their train set.
Sure it may be their train set. It doesnít make it right though. If people didnít object to things like this from time to time which is their right under our constitution, change would never happen.
There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions
I never said there werenít. I actually feel sorry for the staff particularly the ones that had to deal with Mr Fearnley on the day. Itís not their fault that Jetstar has such a stupid policy.
If you don't like then f#@$ off.
Iíll just put that down to you debating the man and not the topic.

FlexibleResponse
26th Nov 2009, 10:29
There are plenty of good people at JQ who work under trying conditions who then have to listen or read this crap.

Strangely enough, I would tend to blame JQ for the JQ policy and the JQ imposed trying conditions JQ staff have to work under...rather than blame the JQ clients/customers who pay JQ money in good faith for a supposed service?

No wonder the opposition run circles around JQ... :(

Howard Hughes
26th Nov 2009, 10:33
Do you actually realise how that comment makes you sound? I donít like using the word but Bigoted isnít too strong Iím afraid.
404 Titan

The opening line needs to be read in it's entirety!

What I am eluding to is that this gentleman is simply grandstanding! He is able to crawl the Kokoda Trail, yet because of pride he won't be pushed in a wheelchair, so elects to crawl, so let him. He then tries to make out that he is being victimised by the airline. He is not being victimised, nor was he singled out, this is a blanket policy which applies to all wheelchair bound patrons.

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 11:16
Howard Hughes

Look weíll just go around in circles if we debate the merits of his delivery method. But if you are actually debating the merits of the policy I find it hard to fathom anyone who could actually think it is right. Itís there purely for commercial reasons not safety and therefore by default they (Jetstar and Tiger) are both profiteering of the backs of disabled pax. This is morally wrong.

FlexibleResponse
26th Nov 2009, 11:50
JetStar does not want unaccompanied childern, cripples, spastics, blind, deaf and dumb, aged or otherwise infirm passengers. Such passengers are encouraged to either fly with JetStar's competitors or stay at home and don't travel at all.

We do not have the systems, staff or facilities required to assume responsibility for assistance and supervision of passengers.

For the avoidance of doubt, please see JetStar's Policy on "Independent traveller requirement - Children" and "Limited special assistance" shown at the following link:

At the airport - Travel information - Jetstar Airways (http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/travel-info/at-the-airport.aspx#chi)

For passengers who are protected from discrimination by Australian Law, JetStar will begrudgingly undertake "Limited Special Assistance".

The law does not require JetStar to provide this service in a respectful and friendly way...especially if you check-in after 29 minutes before the flight due to lengthy queues even if caused by inadequate numbers of JetStar check-in staff...

pcx
26th Nov 2009, 12:33
404

Does Jetstar charge disabled pax more than an able bodied pax to provide the level of service required by the disabled. I suspect not.

It must cost Jetstar more to carry a disabled pax then an able bodied one and provide the level of service that they do. I accept that this level of service does not meet with your approval, however they do provide a service to their disabled pax that they do not need to provide an able bodied pax.

So how then can you contend that jetstar are "profiteering of the backs of disabled pax". That is really just an emotional statement without foundation.

After my previous post you said that my comment:-

"To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason."

To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason.
was:-

"one of the dumbest thinks I have ever heard anyone say and speaks volumes to your incredible lack of compassion."

For me to make this statement says nothing about my compassion or lack of it. It is a statement of fact.

The cold hard fact is that there are some things that disabled people can not do. In our industry a couple of them would be:-

Occupy an exit row seat
Be employed as a pilot on an airline jet.

On the day in question another was that Mr Fearnly would be required to check his wheelchair at check in.

His subsequent behaviour did him and his cause absolutely no credit.

I made no comment on Jetstar's policy. This is because I am of two minds.

Jetstar could improve their policy.

However, Jetstar have set out a business model for their version of a LCC. The services that they provide are based on their model. Comparisons with other LCC's are not valid as their business model will vary from Jetstar's. The services and T&C's that they provide for the fare they charge are set out in their web site and are available from other sources.

Nevertheless, Mr Fearnly chose to fly Jetstar and thus accepted their terms and conditions.

By all means attempt to force Jetstar to change those terms and conditions if you wish. But do so in an appropriate way.

As I said, I do not like some of Jetstar's t&c's so I choose not to fly with them.

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 15:44
pcx
Does Jetstar charge disabled pax more than an able bodied pax to provide the level of service required by the disabled. I suspect not.

So how then can you contend that jetstar are "profiteering of the backs of disabled pax".
You donít need to charge someone to take commercial advantage of them. The mere fact they require short turn around times but arenít prepared to have the necessary staff to deal with stowing a disabled paxís wheelchair at the gate saves them money over their LCC competitor that is prepared to provide it. That is what I mean by "profiteering of the backs of disabled pax". It saves them money and contributes to their bottom line.
however they do provide a service to their disabled pax that they do not need to provide an able bodied pax.
They may not need to provide it legally but on a commercial basis they would be idiots if they didnít provide anything.
To say that this was taking away his independence is probably true to a limited point, however there are some limitations that have to be accepted when one becomes disabled for any reason.

For me to make this statement says nothing about my compassion or lack of it. It is a statement of fact.

The cold hard fact is that there are some things that disabled people can not do.
That goes without saying but it isnít our job to make it anymore difficult with stupid rules. As a society we should be doing all we can to make daily life as accessible and straight forward as possible for these people.
His subsequent behaviour did him and his cause absolutely no credit.
Maybe to the people that were there, but the general public I doubt it. All the general public saw were the media reports which didnít do Jetstar any favours as evident by the fact they were forced into damage control with a swift and very public apology.
However, Jetstar have set out a business model for their version of a LCC. The services that they provide are based on their model. Comparisons with other LCC's are not valid as their business model will vary from Jetstar's. The services and T&C's that they provide for the fare they charge are set out in their web site and are available from other sources.
I think the point I am trying to make is that their business model on this particular issue is flawed and should be changed.
By all means attempt to force Jetstar to change those terms and conditions if you wish. But do so in an appropriate way.
What may be inappropriate for some may be appropriate for others. Somehow I doubt that the general public see it your way. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

p.j.m
26th Nov 2009, 17:56
p.j.m

As for you ďp.j.mĒ, if you are actually in a customer orientated position, you are in the wrong line of work my friend. Your attitude is giving your airline a very bad name.

404 - much like your assumptions about what I do and who I work for, you seem to not have a clue.

fyi - it is usually me "keepng them honest" and bagging JS about their flight delays and general lack of service and stupid and totally misleading TV ads. but in this instance I'm in agreement with JS, their policies and their staff. Meanwhile Fearnley has proven he's a fool and you seem to be trying to topple him from the title,

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 18:42
p.j.m

Thatís funny I canít see one post you have made here bagging JQ. I can see five posts though about QF. Mind you, you probably post under multiple aliases each with multiply personalities. :hmm::rolleyes:

I couldnít give a rats what people think of me. When I have a strongly held opinion on something I will defend it. All you can do is bag me or Mr Fearnly. I havenít seen anyone yet give me a credible reason why they think this policy is OK except the ďItís their train setĒ or ďItís their business modelĒ BS. You give me a good reason and I may respect your opinion.

j3pipercub
26th Nov 2009, 19:36
He or the person booking the flight on his behalf ticked the little box that says 'I agree with the above Terms and Conditions'. If he or his rep couldn't be bothered to read the full terms and conditions, I don't see how that is an Airlines fault. If you don't like ther T + C's, GO ELSEWHERE!!!!!!!

Furthermore, it's a low cost carrier FFS!!! You get what you pay for.

What he did in PNG was admirable. What he did during the award ceremony was ridiculous.

j3

Mobi LAME
26th Nov 2009, 19:48
Does this person have a book launch or TV special in the wings? I know I am cynical but if he was a rock star it would be a cancer scare before a launch for publicity.

404 Titan
26th Nov 2009, 20:45
Iím really getting board with the people that insist on criticising the man rather than debating the merits of Jetstarís and Tigers policy. Thatís the issue here.

j3pipercub
26th Nov 2009, 21:11
Well 404, I'm getting bored of the notion that the majority should change for a minority. You talk about short turn arounds and how this doesn't allow wheelchair passengers enough time to transfer at the gate. Why should Jetstar have to make their turnarounds longer and as a result increase their airfares for a minority? Why? Why should I be forced to pay more for someone else's convenience?? They are not being treated as sub-human, or demeaned in any way, just transferring to another form of transport so the airline can keep costs down and pass on a cheaper fare. If its not to your liking, fly another airline. I don't understand the continual argument and discussion.

I understand you are passionate about the subject, but do you think your feelings may be clouding your judgement slightly?

j3

Mr. Hat
26th Nov 2009, 21:24
Lads its been done to death.:ugh:

Nuthinondaclock
27th Nov 2009, 00:39
Why should Jetstar have to make their turnarounds longer and as a result increase their airfares for a minority? Why? Why should I be forced to pay more for someone else's convenience??
Itís a crook policy and for the small number of times where a wheelchair passenger chooses to stay in their own chair to the gate itís not going to make a scrap of difference to the fare that Jetstar passengers pay. There is no reason why the transfer to an aisle chair at the gate rather than at check in should make any difference to the time taken to board an aircraft if handled correctly. A wheelchair passenger boarding is always going to slow things down a little bit but that is just something that has to be accepted in a civilized society. Hey, old people and people with small kids slow down boarding. Do you think we shouldn't make allowances for them as well?
Itís easy to say;
They are not being treated as sub-human, or demeaned in any way
when YOU CAN WALK. Obviously Mr. Fearnley did find it demeaning. As non-paraplegics I think very few people can appreciate it from a paraplegicsí perspective and ultimately it's not whether YOU find it demeaning that matters. I reckon if you asked most paraplegics what they thought of Jetstars policy they would agree with Mr. Fearnley. You might not like how he went about drawing attention to this but that doesnít make the policy any more correct. Likewise saying he didnít have to travel with Jetstar also doesnít make the policy right either. I think many are allowing their dislike of how Kurt handled the situation to cloud their assesment of the policy. You can think he's a goose and still not agree with the policy you know.

Iím no bleeding heart but Iíve found the shallowly hiden lack of humanity or empathy for people with a disability on this post astounding. As an example from p.j.m.;
.....people automatically jump to defend him just because he's a cripple.
Fair dinkum what cave did you crawl out of? I reckon if you called Kurt a cripple to his face you'd be the one sitting on your arse.
If you look at any of my previous posts you can see Iím not one of those who just bags Jetstar for the sake of it. For any airline I think this was poor form.

404 Titan
27th Nov 2009, 05:14
j3pipercub
I'm getting bored of the notion that the majority should change for a minority.
Who said that they need to? You and I donít need to do a thing. Jetstar and Tiger though need to change their policy.
You talk about short turn arounds and how this doesn't allow wheelchair passengers enough time to transfer at the gate. Why should Jetstar have to make their turnarounds longer and as a result increase their airfares for a minority?
Where have I said Jetstar or Tiger for that matter need to increase their turn around times? I havenít. I have said that they need to provide the necessary resources at the gate to be able to transfer a disabled pax to an aisle wheelchair if the pax should decide to do it there instead of at check in.
Why should I be forced to pay more for someone else's convenience??
Pretty selfish statement to make when we are talking about a group of people who werenít given a choice to be in a wheelchair in the first place. Chances are though it wouldnít cost you a cent as the number of times this would be required and catered for is very small compared to the whole operation.

777WakeTurbz
27th Nov 2009, 06:21
404 Titan

Is it just me or are you getting fixated on Tiger and Jetstar official policy? Most people would agree with you that it should be changed to allow more convenience for the disabled. But it doesnt change the fact that he acted like an absolute :mad: and made a fool of himself for what would appear to be his own agenda!!!
Im sure he is not the first to be upset, nor the last, but you dont see every person in a wheelchair throwing a tantrum like a 2 year old and go scampering off through the airport as if to prove something do you??? :ugh: