Pay difference between NCO Aircrew, why?

[Whitters]

I was wondering if anyone in an NCO Aircrew or Recruiting position could tell me why Air Loadmasters earn around £2,500 less than the other NCO Aircrew trades at Flight Sergeant and Master Aircrew ranks?
Its not a critiscism or anything I'm just curious.

[Talking Radalt]

It's just to keep us reminded that we are, in very real terms, the poor (and often misunderstood) relation in the SNCO aircrew world.

[TimC]

I was told by an AEOp that it is a recruiting and retention incentive. As I understand it, the RAF has a surplus of people applying for LM and a shortage of people applying for (or getting turned down for :( ) AEOp.

[A and C]

Is it to try to stop the flight engineers going to the airlines.

[Up Very Gently]

The pay difference between ALM and other AA trades is largely a result of poor representation at the last pay review. In essence, there was a corporate, managerial, and indeed individual, failure to fully represent all the duties and responsibilities undertaken across the ALM spectrum. Consequently, this failure meant that the AFPRB were unable to justify a higher award.

Instead of bemoaning the situation, we would do well to learn from the AEOps who got their "5hit in one sock", and represent ourselves better next time around - no one will do it for us.

Besides, AEOps deserve that extra cash for having to fly a 50 year old aircraft, sideways, from a base near the North Pole, over water, hunting whales! Nice. :D

UVG

[Hengist Pod]

Whitters

Seeing as you're from Witney, you could perhaps jump on a Tristar/VC 10, watch the loadmaster at work and then fully understand why we're on the lower band.

[BEagle]

Or perhaps observe what the ALM on the C-17 is responsible for and wonder in total amazement why they're paid less than a Nimrod wireless operator!

[rivetjoint]

So just what do Nimrod AEOps do these days with no subs lurking off of our coasts?

We all know what 51sqn AEOps do : Press play and check the tapes turning when there's something good on the radio. A bit like my younger sister :)

[Charlie Luncher]

Beags

Showing your age again
next you will be be calling me sparks.

UVG we did get our sios but it was not a done deal. 1989 was a bitter pill but we learnt from that and thus the financial reward ish. Also we had an on side fella in bluntiesworth whom was stung in 89.

Charlie sends

[Charlie Luncher]

Witters

It is not a retention thing.

It has more to do with siggies being better looking, wittier and overall more attractive to the opposite sex.

Charlie sends

[BEagle]

The opposite sex? In the Nimrod fleet?

"You have control co-pilot sweetie. I'm just popping down the back for a quick siggie....."

[Danny Boy]

Another case for the argument to divorce rank from pay IMHO, but it seems to be treated as a taboo subject by our Lords and Masters.

Any thoughts?

Danny Boy :confused:

[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: Danny Boy ]

[Whitters]

Cheers for all those replies, as I said I was just curious and didn't intend on sparking up a row between the various NCO Aircrew branches, however as it seems to be starting, I'm with the Loadies.

[Fay Deck]

Up Very Gently was partially right. Another factor that influenced the Pay Review outcome was that in going from Sgt to FS and above there was no perceived increase in supervisory responsibility for ALMs. More informed input from the ALM trade sponsor might have resulted in a different outcome.

[Rude C'man]

UVG I agree with 99 5 of your comments but do tell me how I failed ( "as a individual" )to represent myself at the last pay review. I only know of four SH C'Man that were job evaluated.I'm sorry but the blame has to be left with our commisioned brothers. The so called best of the best 9 well according to OASC) :rolleyes:

[Hengist Pod]

This is getting dangerously like a previous thread. You know the one I mean boys (plus the odd girl.) Always good for a giggle and especially fun to watch those who take themselves too seriously getting hot under the collar. Can I have a CM brevet please?

[Charlie Luncher]

ok beags come on you showing your age again, you know we are not allowed to smoke anymore.

Anyhow that particular pilot was dismissed the service before all this PC crap came in.

His young siggies kept complaining.

Charlie sends

[Tiger_mate]

Word is that nothing can change b4 2002 when the next review will take place and the unfair f*up can be addressed.

That will sort out the retention problem that we do not have will it not?

[6nandneutral]

If I understand the situation correctly it is thus. AEOps FS and MACR have an airborne supervisory role, lead wet and lead dry man (or woman).
Whereas although ALM FS and MACR have ground supervisory roles, section leaders, assessments etc, the ALM airborne supervisory roles (Route checking training and testing)were not all filled by FS and MACR many were, and still are filled by SGTs (who do the job very well). Air Engs are in the same situation as the ALMs but were they to downband the Air Engs then there would be a rather large pile of PVRs for the paperclip counters to sort out. This hopefully could be addressed in the future by filling all the above ALM posts with FS and MACR possibly by awarding acting paid rank. Lets hope that next time we are properly represented as it would simplify the situation and would for once be a change where at least some poeple would actually be happy.

[ 08 August 2001: Message edited by: 6nandneutral ]

[Hengist Pod]

6 and neutral or whathever your name is

I'm afraid you don't understand the situation correctly. Go away and write out 100 times "I must not generalise" and then when you've finished those lines go back to your airman aircrew glossy literature and re-read how many diverse roles there are in each trade - then you'll find your posts make so much more sense.

[4 of 7]

Its probabli 'cos utha Knockas can reed and rite joynd-up ritin an r mor kleva than lodemastas in genrl.

Alternatively its another case of 'Its always been this way' with no regard to the fact that jobs/equipment/responsibility has changed.

Watch out though, God Forbid, they might well do another 'Work Study' and form a Committee that will give work to another Air Rank officer. (We still need to justify why there are more Air Rank officers than aircraft).

Brace, Brace - standing by for the mauling

[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: 4 of 7 ]

[snaggletooth]

So what will happen if an ALM fills an AEOPs slot (no pun intended).

It has happened before on a creaky old SAR fleet. And in some cases the Crewman (don't like the LM brevet, never have, they work on FW surely), by carrying over his 'paramedic' skills, is more qualified/specialised than his (more highly paid) AEOp peers.

It's not all about money for me, but...