UK CAA Lifetime PPL - SEP renewal in Belgium

[Hollman]

I have a UK CAA PPL, but have not flown using it for just over 10 years. I am now living and working in Belgium and wish to renew the SEP rating. I have asked the CAA, Belgian CAA and a Belgian JAR examiner for what is required, but the answers are somewhat unclear.

Belgian CAA are content for SEP renewal to be done by a Belgian examiner – if the PPL was issued in accordance with FCL-JAR’ I emailed a .pdf copy, so I wasn’t expecting a conditional answer, and am non- the- wiser, but I don’t think that they noted it was a UK ’lifetime’ licence.

UK CAA are content for SEP renewal to be done by Belgian JAR examiner (and require a copy of his licence and JAR approval to conduct the skill test ).

Belgian examiner thinks that this is not possible as the UK CAA licence not valid in Europe. This is citing the example of the Belgian PPL pre-JAR, when they came in two forms: the national licence, usable only in Belgium and the ‘International’ licence, which allowed the holder to fly outside of Belgium.

Just to further confuse things, LASORS indicate that the FRTOL also needs renewal, but the CAA did not mention that in their reply.


I will go back to all these agencies to try and reconcile the requirement, but would be grateful if anyone could cast a bit of light on this though personal experience. I’ll leave the IMC renewal question to much later!



Many thanks

[Donalk]

Belgian CAA are content for SEP renewal to be done by a Belgian examiner – if the PPL was issued in accordance with FCL-JAR


Effectively they are considering this as a lapsed JAR license and thus are happy to revalidate with a skill test conducted by a Belgian examiner. Clearly they do not understand that it is a UK license issued prior to JAA.

UK CAA are content for SEP renewal to be done by Belgian JAR examiner (and require a copy of his licence and JAR approval to conduct the skill test ).


UK CAA, being content for a renewal by a Belgian examiner pre supposes that our friends in Rue Progres will recognise the original validity of your UK license - which of course they will not.

Perhaps the only option is to renew in the UK with an examiner and have your license 'upgraded' to JAR.

Then you could easily do a state of license issue transfer and receive a Belgian JAR PPL.

PM. me if I can help in any way.

[Whopity]

AS your SEP rating has expired by more than 5 years it will have to go to Gatwick to be re-issued. The CAA will accept a Skill Test conducted by any JAA examiner provided he gives details of hs licence and completes the CAA Paperwork SRG1119 and SRG1157 the latter simply provides the examiner with his own record.

There is another issue, you will need a English Language Proficiency assessment to fly outside the UK on that licence. All UK examiners are authorised to sign for that on the SRG1119 but a non UK examiner may not be accepted though chances are nobody will notice.

If you have not exercised the privileges of your FRTOL for 10 years you will have to renew that as well however; if you have been issued with a lifetime FRTOL then it may still be legally valid.

An ICAO PPL should be accepted by any other ICAO country in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 however they Belgians may have some validation requirements, the UK accept all ICAO licences (Art 26).

Incidentally the renewal of a UK licence has nothing to do with the Belgian DGAC. Acceptance of it once its valid does but all UK licences have been validated in accordance with JAR-FCL since Jan 2000, so it should be acceptable in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.

[Hollman]

Donalk,
Thankyou. I have sent you a PM - I would like avoid converting my lifetime UK CAA PPL to a JAR licence as I will return to the UK at some point and I’m sure that there will be a way to make this work.

Whopity,
Thank you for your comprehensive reply – I’m beginning to think that it may be much more straightforward to renew in the UK and present the Belgian DGAC and flying club with the simpler task of accepting a valid and current UK ICAO licence and SEP. I’ll look up the ICAO Annex 1 for the reference for the read across of the UK license and formally ask the CAA the FRTOL question.

Regards,
H

[TWR]

I also think converting to an EASA license is a good idea. Rumour has it that after 2012 we will have lifetime licenses too. Only the rating will have to be renewed every two years. Can you fly OO-registered acft with a UK-license ? This is another benefit of an EASA license .

Where do you fly in EBBU ?

[Hollman]

TWR,
The UK ICAO license is a lifetime one, which is why people are reluctant to give it up. I had assumed that since it is an ICAO license that I would be able to fly OO-registered aircraft. With the current uncertainty over EASA-world, I don’t think that there is such a thing as an EASA licence?

Regards,
H

[skydriller]

Then you could easily do a state of license issue transfer and receive a Belgian JAR PPL.

This is somthing you really do NOT want to do.... I looked into changing states from the UK to France a few years ago, believe me as long as you have either an original Life UK PPL or a JAR PPL (from whatever state of issue) you can basicly fly anywhere in Europe, thats all you need.

[Fatty]

Hollman,

If you have a UK national licence you may use it to obtain a JAR licence.

You DO NOT have to surrender your UK national licence. You may hold both.

You are not converting one to the other, you are eligible for the JAR one because you possess a national one.

I strongly recommend you hang on to the national one.

Fatty.

[homeguard]

Holman

The process is simpler than you think. Who does your skill test has nothing to do with the Belgians.

Find a Belgian Examiner to do your skill test. Print out an SRG1119 form from the CAA website. Go to the Flight Crew section and select forms, you will find it there.

On passing the Skill Test, you complete SRG1119 and have the Belgian examiner complete and sign the examiner part adding their JAA Examiner number as appropiate. You will only need to send page 1 of the form, a photocopy of your JAR class 2 medical, the rating validation page and the fee (logbook is not required because there is no mandatory training for renewal). RG1119 Page 2 need only be sent if the examiner is authorised to sign the section relating to English language proficiency. The Belgian Examiner probably isn't.

The CAA will not issue you with a JAA Licence and cancel your UK lifetime one, automaticlly (they do nothing without the fee). They will send you a new UK computerised version certainly if you UK licence was the old brown paper type. They will also most likely assess you as Level 4 English which is acceptable for international flight. If they don't then phone them for they appear to accept a chat on the phone as proof of your natural language. They will then send you the replacement page

As whopity saids you will need to renew your RT licence if after 10 years of none use. But even so perhaps not, as whopity indicates. I don't know how the CAA or anyone else can know that you have or you haven't used your RT privileges in the meantime for there is no requirement to log use of the aircraft radios.

Obviously only a UK Examiner can renew you IMC Rating.