'Hoon scraps Britain's last ever warplane'

[newshound]

today's Daily Telegraph:

Hoon scraps Britain's last ever warplane
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 13/07/2001)

BRITAIN will never design and build another combat aircraft as a result of a decision by Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, to stop funding for the RAF's future fighter-bomber, senior defence sources said yesterday.

The decision, part of a range of measures identified as ways of cutting costs, was taken in the face of warnings about the potential damage to the British aerospace industry.

The Ministry of Defence had been due to approve the development of the Future Offensive Aircraft Capability (FOAC), expected to be a mix of manned aircraft, missiles and remote-controlled unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), last March.

But, in a decision that will save £1.26 billion over the next 10 years, Mr Hoon decided in February not to go ahead with its development and to take the project out of the budget altogether, the sources said.

The decision will ensure that BAE Systems, which as British Aerospace subsumed the majority of the British aircraft manufacturer, will never design and build another combat aircraft.

It also calls into question the very future of the RAF. If the Future Offensive Aircraft Capability ended up focused entirely on missiles and UAVs, as some experts suggest, there would be no role left for the air force.

Mr Hoon said that he had merely delayed the decision on what to do when the Tornado ground attack aircraft was withdrawn from service in 2020 because of uncertainty over what its replacement should be.

The demise of BAE Systems as an aircraft manufacturer will bring to an end a long tradition of British combat aircraft. The company and its predecessors built a succession of famous aircraft.

These ranged from the Sopwith Camel of the First World War through all the famous names of the Second World War: the Spitfire; the Hurricane; the Wellington and Lancaster on to the V-bombers of the 1950s.

Although more recent aircraft such as the Jaguar, Tornado and Eurofighter have all been collaborations with European partners, BAE was always the lead manufacturer.

BAE Systems said that it had realised for some time that the manned aircraft element of FOAC was "highly unlikely" to be a new aircraft and had diversified, buying up American companies and looking to be a systems provider.

A company spokesman said: "The idea that BAE Systems would create a new manned aircraft to replace the Tornado has not been likely for some time now.

"We have already said that there is no future in being a fuselage manufacturer."What we as a company are interested in is the technology, the sideletters we have signed on the US Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) which Britain is buying."

In an interview with The Telegraph, Mr Hoon said: "Both Eurofighter and the prospect of JSF mean that for the next 15, 20 years at least the RAF will have the very latest and best capability as far as combat aircraft are concerned.

"After that, we've got to start thinking but you don't necessarily have to take the decisions before the thinking has matured."

Francis Tusa, editor of the influential journal Defence Analysis, said: "The postponement of FOAC represents a major hit on the UK defence aviation capability.

"Unless some research and development programmes take the place of FOAC in the short term, British capability in this field will be lost pretty quickly."

[Snapshot]

Long live the memory of the 'Banana jet'
The last TRUE British Bomber.
Of course the newspapers don't even mention Broughs wonder jet
Snaps www.BlackburnBuccaneer.co.uk (http://www.BlackburnBuccaneer.co.uk)

[BEagle]

Wasn't there some pratt called Duncan Sandys who made an equally stupid utterance just before the infamous 1957 White Paper?

Yes - the Buccaneer had the attributes of good range and an internal bomb bay. However, we only got it because Earl Mountbottom did such a good job of stitching up the TSR2. His fish-headed mentality gave Wislon's government more than sufficient ammunition to kill off the project - and then we couldn't afford the F111K because of the sterling crisis!

However, it was very difficult to fly at low speed, it had a poor radar, archaic navigation systems, a dreadful cockpit layout, was subsonic and required the complicated and difficult to maintain blow system to take-off at max AUW in hot weather. Nothing that development might not have cured though.

And 237 OCU in the mid-70s was an utter disgrace - it flew 100% of its hours and graduated 30% of its students!

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[Blammo]

Can you tell we have a socialist government in power! I've come to the conclusion that I must be about a universe out of touch with this government and its supporters because I just can't see the logic behind most of its decisions. Come back Lady Thatcher, all is forgiven! Ok she was a raving loon and scared us all ****lessbut at least we got some good TV out of it, and a job worth doing.

Blam :rolleyes: :( :eek:

[L J R]

Surely reality must agree that todays blue-print [read the next generation] Fighter / Strike Jet will realistically be the last manned combat aircraft. Think of it..... Todays latest design will be introduced [operational] in 2015-2020. Given that it will replace a series of jets that initially had concepts designed in the late '60s and initially flown in the mid seventies, [albeit significantly upgraded over the decades] surely any scholar would agree that today's blue print will be flying for 40 years [from 2020], and therefore its relacement will be designed in 2050. Who can really imagine what it will look like.

Food for thought and come backs...

[newshound]

also in today's Daily Telegraph:

Clipped wings: end of the Spitfire tradition
(Filed: 13/07/2001)

Britain's proud history of building military aircraft appears to be nearing its end, reports Neil Tweedie

THE demise of British military aircraft manufacturing will bring to an end a century of innovation punctuated by names that to this day have the ability to evoke pride - Spitfire, Hurricane, Lancaster, Vulcan and Lightning to name a few. The industry that led the world into the jet age now looks set for ever to be a junior partner to the giants of American aerospace.

At the beginning of the First World War the Army and Navy possessed only 150 aircraft of the most primitive types. The first handful of British pilots taking off for France in August 1914 were ordered to ram any Zeppelin that might pass their way, no other method of interception having been devised. By 1918 the 350,000 men and women in the British aircraft industry were producing 30,000 aircraft a year. The crude Bleriot monoplanes produced by the Royal Aircraft Factory four years earlier had given way to high-performance machinegun-armed fighters such as the Sopwith Camel and SE5a, the latter capable of 138mph in level flight. That year also witnessed the establishment by the Royal Air Force of the world's first strategic bomber force. However, the twin-engined Vickers Vimy, designed to lead the way with attacks on targets in Germany from British bases, entered service too late to play its part in the conflict.

The inter-war period was marked by stagnation in British combat aircraft design until re-armament and the needs of the Second World War provided the impetus for advances culminating in the birth of the jet age. In 1935 the RAF's fastest fighter was the Gloster Gauntlet, a biplane reminiscent of the Great War machines with a maximum level speed of 230mph. By 1945, the same company was producing the Meteor, the only jet fighter to enter operational service on the Allied side in the Second World War, capable of 600mph.

The intervening period saw the introduction of the most famous British combat aircraft to see service. More than 22,000 examples of R J Mitchell's Supermarine Spitfire were produced in more than 20 variants. The Hawker Hurricane, which bore the brunt of the Battle of Britain, had a production run of 14,000. Bomber development was just as rapid. Biplanes derived from the Vimy still equipped Bomber Command in the mid-1930s, but rapidly gave way to monoplane types such as the Vickers Wellington as war approached. Wartime bomber design was to culminate in the four-engined Avro Lancaster. About 7,400 were built, the type being complemented by the Handley Page Halifax, 6,000 of which were produced. De Havilland's most successful contribution to the war effort was the Mosquito. Built of timber to circumvent metal shortages, the "wooden wonder" served in the day bomber, night fighter, fighter bomber and reconnaissance roles.

At the dawn of the jet age the British aircraft industry appeared destined to enjoy further success. There were more than 20 aircraft companies in 1945 and the post-war lull was followed by a revival in military aircraft orders in the 1950s as Britain re-armed in the shadow of the Korean War. Notable successes included the Hawker Hunter fighter and the Canberra medium bomber. British industry also managed to produce three advanced types to equip the V-bomber nuclear force - the Vickers Valiant, Avro Vulcan and Handley Page Victor.

But in 1957 the British military aircraft industry suffered a blow from which it never recovered. Duncan Sandys, the defence secretary in the Macmillan government, decreed that the guided missile had rendered the manned combat aircraft obsolete. A host of projects were cancelled, and the government announced that the English Electric Lightning would be Britain's last jet fighter. Among the few programmes to survive was that for the TSR2 advanced strike aircraft, but it too fell under the axe in 1965. One survivor however was the Hawker Siddeley Harrier, the world's first operational vertical take-off fighter, which has enjoyed success until the present day.

The RAF and Navy suddenly found themselves dependent on America for their next fighter, the Phantom, and Britain was removed as a leading player in the fighter export market. Consolidation was the order of the day in aircraft manufacturing. In 1960 Armstrong Whitworth, Avro, Gloster and Hawker were joined by Blackburn, De Havilland and Folland in Hawker Siddeley. Bristol, English Electric, Hunting and Vickers merged to form the British Aircraft Corporation (BAC). The process was completed in 1977 with the birth of British Aerospace (BAe), now BAE Systems.

The spiralling cost of research and development led the Government to seek collaborative ventures. They produced the Anglo-French Jaguar in the 1970s, the Anglo-German-Italian Tornado in the 1980s, and now the Eurofighter. The latter will be the last type produced by a consortium in which Britain is a leading player.

Like Duncan Sandys before him, Mr Hoon appears to believe that in the age of the missile - and this time the unmanned aerial vehicle - the manned combat aircraft has had its day. Hopefully, he will be right this time.

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: newshound ]

[MarkD]

I don't think you can thank Maggie... the Tory Defence Reviews were hardly kind to force levels.

No if you want to find the chap responsible for keeping what capability there was in the 80s then you'll have to ring International Directory Enquiries for Buenos Aires, ask for a chap called Galtieri...

[Archimedes]

It's a good story, but.... the Torygraph is implying that some great disaster has struck. FOAS/FOAC was a projected capabilityrather than hardware. The implication is that FOAS would have been a British built wunderfighter - but would it? Since FOAS would have replaced Tornado, the probability of collaboration must have been high. It seemed to be accepted that the last all British fighter had been delivered in the form of the last SHAR 2 a couple of years ago.

As it is, developments of JSF or Eurofighter with all-singing all dancing weapons could probably do the job in the medium term (through to about 2030). This seems to be more of a 'pushing thinking right' process than the final, unequivocal decision implied.

[Blue Danube]

So the Socialists have done it again. I hope you are proud of who you re-elected (Don't blame me, I didn't vote for them). This is a typical short sighted move by a Government that shows no respect for it's workforce.
We produce nothing, we have a joke of a National Health Service, the most expensive petrol in Europe and more refugees than we can afford to house.

Thanks Tony

[ROGERTHAT]

I`ve only been in 10 years but already i`ve seen a once proud airforce with 90k+ personnel REDUCED TO 50K WITH NO REAL DROP IN WORK LOAD. Now to top it all off no more toys ever had the feeling your not wanted.

"TAXI" :( :( :(

[ 13 July 2001: Message edited by: ROGERTHAT ]

[Nick Mahon]

So what happens now then? Do we rely on our bombers being designed and constructed by some European consortium or is this the end of the RAF altogether, with us relying purely on organic air power with the two new carriers that are 'supposedly' on the way.

:mad:

[ 14 July 2001: Message edited by: Nick Mahon ]

[only1leftmate!]

Oh come on people!

Re-read the article, particularly the BAe input and recognise that it was written by Francis Tusla- a man who's credibility as a defence analyst has got to be one of the biggest jokes in the media world. Tusla's only comments during the Kosovo campaign were negative, schoolboyish and almost completely directed at eliciting public dissatisfaction.

WE, the British, had our single nationality aircraft industry rogered for us decades ago. Since then the industry has adapted to what is generally regarded as the only credible way in which to participate in expensive and high risk R&D and development- we have our fingers in every pie going. And by the way, BAe are not the lead firm for any European project, they have at best a 20% stake, check Companies House for confirmation.

[Low and Slow]

Onlyoneleftmate:

Are you talking about FRANCIS TUSA?

Perhaps instead of insulting the man with ill founded slander, you might like to contact him at his office and actually get off your chest what ever it is that's worrying you.
He's obvioulsy done something to upset you.

Do you read or subscribe to Defence Analysis? If so, his contact detail are in the front.

Do you feel the same way about Paul Beaver, Andrew Gilligan, Mark Laity?
Are you one of the above? Do tell.

[Out Of Trim]

In my opinion - Hoon's an @rse ~ Whatever savings we make in peace time; a time will come in the not too distant future when we will need our forces to overcome any perceived threat and we will not be ready.. AGAIN! :eek:

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Does this mean we're actually in danger of buying some decent aircraft for a change??