View Full Version : Qantas To Reconfigure International Aircraft

17th Nov 2009, 02:15
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aUFE3wsx12hU (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=aUFE3wsx12hU)

Qantas Airways Ltd. will cut the number of first and business class seats across its long-haul fleet as part of a review of seating following a slump in demand for premium travel, the Australian Financial Review said.

The airline would likely increase the number of economy seats on international routes to match moves by Singapore Airlines Ltd. and Emirates Airline, the newspaper said, citing Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce. The reconfiguration of the fleet is expected to be announced before Christmas, the Review said.

The global airline industry is expected to lose $9 billion this year, the Review reported.

Qantas is targeting another A$1.5 billion ($1.4 billion) in savings over the next three years and has already cut about 700 management jobs and deferred some plane orders, the newspaper said.

So any ideas?

Wonder if the B744 will have a single config for all the aircraft instead of the current 3 separate configs?

I assume the A333 config will remain the same 30J/267Y? I see the current Intl A332 config changing from the current 36J/199Y to something like 30J/215Y to better match the A333 fleet??

Wonder if they will take this opportunity to add premium Y to the 2 class B744s? and maybe add the A380 economy style seats to the rest of the Intl fleet?
And what about the A380? Less J seats and more Y+ on the upper deck?


Capt Fathom
17th Nov 2009, 03:13
This was in the media back in August! Bloomberg are a bit slow off the mark?

Qantas also announced plans to cut costs by $1.5 billion over the next three years, starting with a target of $500 million this financial year.

Key components of the cost cutting plan include reconfiguring aircraft, including the superjumbo A380, technology advancements and fuel conservation.

17th Nov 2009, 03:49
I think the plan is to just leave the config the same but sell the first seats as business.

17th Nov 2009, 04:23
It is the front page story in the Fin Review today. Actual changes in config will occur.

17th Nov 2009, 08:16
Yep, they should finish the re-configuration program just in time for the recovery.
Pants down yet again. :ugh:

Jethro Gibbs
17th Nov 2009, 08:35
Just like shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic

17th Nov 2009, 09:09
Havent we all been here before..........when some things change they stay pretty much the same!..........just the players this time are different.

Transition Layer
17th Nov 2009, 21:09
Yep, they should finish the re-configuration program just in time for the recovery.
Pants down yet again.
woftam is exactly what it is!

They should have been doing this 12-18 months ago when the writing was on the wall...pro-active rather than re-active, but this is a perfect example why Qantas is not a market leader.

18th Nov 2009, 02:17
So you would have like to have been sacked earlier TL or are you just a wind up merchant?

Transition Layer
18th Nov 2009, 03:47
Who said anything about being sacked? I was referring to the decision to remove premium seats just in time for demand to pick up again...as Singapore and Cathay are starting to see:

Cathay Pacific, Singapore Airlines see pick-up in premium... (http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/share-market/2009/11/12/vcathay-pacific-and-singapore-airlines-see-pick-up-in-premium-traffic-qantas-yields-still-depr/page1)

18th Nov 2009, 05:24
Latest rumour is QF is about to announce that all B744s and A330s are going to be completely refit with new configs, as well as the A380 style seats, and updated A380 style IFE.

The B744s will also apparently receive new toilets and galleys as well....

Stay tuned I guess!

18th Nov 2009, 09:57
Will that include orange leather seats?:}

Going Boeing
18th Nov 2009, 23:38
The QF Dugongs need an increase in seats (yes SQ got it right and QF got it wrong) to improve its figures, but an informed source said that it was impossible to change the configuration until after the 8th aircraft. Specifications are locked in on the production line up to that aircraft. Retrofitting configuration changes on any Airbus type is very expensive as all bulkheads are structural.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the existing "Pacific" configured B744's (that are planned to be retained for a number of years) are converted to a "Kangaroo" style configuration with the newer Dugong style seats and Panasonic IFE. They certainly need a fresh facelift.

Going Boeing
18th Nov 2009, 23:49
AEA calls for stakeholder summit to create conditions necessary for recovery

(November 17, 2009) -- The Association of European Airlines, representing Europe's most important network carriers, is calling on European policy-makers to convene a 'stakeholder summit' to address the challenges facing the European airline sector during the longest and deepest business downturn in its history.

The call comes as latest traffic figures emerging from AEA show no sign of improvement. Even compared to a depressed baseline in late 2008, this year's figures remain locked-in to a trend line about 2% below last year's already dismal figures. The traffic decline pales into insignificance, however, compared to the price effects of the seriously depressed market; latest yield figures show that the average ticket price per kilometre of travel has fallen by more than 15%.

Said AEA Secretary General Ulrich Schulte-Strathaus: "The foundations for a sustainable European air transport sector are crumbling. Portions of our industry are close to collapse - indeed, we have seen failures among premium carriers, leisure carriers, no-frills and cargo airlines. Some network airlines are ceasing to exist as independent entities. Others are exiting markets that they will not re-enter. Secondary markets are losing service. Tens of thousands of people employed by or sustained by the airlines are losing their jobs".

The policy-makers had a choice, said Mr Schulte-Strathaus: watch a weakened and traumatised industry struggle to rebuild within existing constraints, or take proactive steps to construct a regulatory framework within which a return to prosperity could be expedited, and European air transport re-establish itself as a powerful global force. "The US are a step ahead of us in grasping the severity of the crisis", he said. "Their government has already hosted a stakeholder forum and is setting up a Federal Advisory Committee to discuss the future of the industry".

Turning to the latest traffic figures, Mr Schulte-Strathaus said: "The AEA airlines, collectively, have failed to make a profit in the summer, leaving them ill-prepared to face what will be a heavily unprofitable winter. Decision-makers must realise that a key European resource is under threat and steps must be taken - now - to act positively and decisively to create the conditions under which prosperity can be restored as quickly as possible. I invite the European Commission to follow the example of their US counterparts and put in place a structured dialogue with stakeholders, to create the policy which will safeguard the benefits that aviation brings to Europe's citizens and businesses".

Source : Association of European Airlines

Jethro Gibbs
19th Nov 2009, 00:28
wonder if they will use avalon again for this maybe re-configuration they just let go some people with a lot of experince this week.:ugh:

25th Nov 2009, 05:48

Page 31 of the investor presentation lists some info about reconfigs/upgrades:


Says B744 product will be upgraded. Nothing about the A330 though?

Some interesting reading.


12th Jan 2010, 09:12
Anyone heard anymore on this?

Apparently an announcement is due very soon.

Work on the first upgraded B744 is due to begin in FEB....

12th Jan 2010, 19:59
the reconfigiration program cannot commence until A380 number 6 arrives from footlouse.

the problem with the Airbus delivery schedule has delayed announcements as the board will not announce the full details until the first aircraft is ready for the hanger program most likely

12th Jan 2010, 23:12
Or hangAr...

13th Jan 2010, 03:32
merci :)


13th Jan 2010, 06:38
Sorry Pegasus, it's just one of those words that really gets my goat up. :-)

I'll add to this argument. Why won't the big Q reconfigure the cabins to have PROPER bar spaces like V Aus??? My two mates and I got kicked out of the Business "bar" on an A380 because we "were upsetting the first class passengers". Pathetic. And it's only a space fit for four people to sit in, and there's no self service!

(I don't know what V Aus actually has, I've only heard rumours....)

13th Jan 2010, 07:41
There is no icon for a post like that.

Perhaps this will just have to do.


13th Jan 2010, 08:35

Hasn't VH-OQF turned up yet?


Business class bar on Emirates' A380s - :ok::ok::ok: but just like the upstairs bars on the early short-hump classic 747s, doubtless some bean-counter will one day decide to jam more seats in so get it while you can!

Worrals in the wilds
13th Jan 2010, 08:59
One of these? Must polish my CFM boots :E

ditch handle
13th Jan 2010, 09:11
I was told the other day that aircraft 6 has had three failed attempts at getting out of Toulouse.

Anybody got any info.....?

qf 1
13th Jan 2010, 09:23
i heard H245 Sydney maybe doing the refits.something about an overflow facility

13th Jan 2010, 10:12
I doubt h245 will ever see a jumbo again. The hangar and docking haven't been maintained since its closure and to have a 744 worked on in there again would require major docking repairs etc to bring it up to OHS regulations. If they kept it maintained on a monthly basis it might have been salvagable. I believe the porn star have looked at it quite a few times and have taken detailed measurements to see if it would be a suitable 787 hangar. Time will tell.
And if H245 ever sees any work ever again it will just prove the lie David Cox told the media when HM was closed. If you recall one of his statements was that the whole hangar block had to go due to SACL requirements but then that is another story.

And yes VH-OQF did arrive today after a couple of false starts. First was a return to the airbus hangar with some defect and then it was held back by a severely snowed in airport.

I believe it is in H96 now getting pre service mods done and goes into service on Saturday. But these things change at the drop of a hat.

13th Jan 2010, 20:13

I think you will find that is a pic of a lower deck lounge. The stairs are going the wrong way!

13th Jan 2010, 20:48
Unless it was a Boeing idea for a triple deck aircraft:oh:

Come to think of it,this was not a promo shot for the film 2001: A Space Odyssey is it? :E

I love the 70's and especially that sunken dance floor or was it some sort of love in bed?

Bolty McBolt
15th Jan 2010, 20:27
744 config change.
The rumor I am hearing is IFE change.
Rockwell Collins out. Matsushita/Panasonic in.
A dozen years to late but about time

15th Jan 2010, 22:13
Rockwell Collins produced a reasonable IFE system at a price.....cheap
QF marketing got hold of it and tried to make it do what it wasnt designed to do
Marketing hasnt learnt.
They are trying to do it again with Panasonic on the A380.
Its axiomatic that QF marketing and technology dont gel

15th Jan 2010, 22:38
744 config change.
The rumor I am hearing is IFE change.
Rockwell Collins out. Matsushita/Panasonic in.
A dozen years to late but about time

Thank god for that.
After another IFE failure the other day requiring total reboot inflight, enough is enough.
I'm tired of saying, "I'm sorry Sir/Ma'am, the system can't handle everyone accessing it at the same time".

Bolty McBolt
16th Jan 2010, 04:18
IFE System


Rockwell Collins produced a reasonable IFE system at a price.....cheap
QF marketing got hold of it and tried to make it do what it wasnt designed to do
Marketing hasnt learnt.
They are doing it again with Panasonic on the A380.
Its axiomatic that QF marketing and technology dont gel

First I have heard of it.
A380 panasonic IFE is out of the box without fiddling.

Going Boeing
16th Jan 2010, 04:44
Posted by DEFCON4
Rockwell Collins produced a reasonable IFE system at a price.....cheap

Wrong, at the time QF ordered the Rockwell Collins IFE, both SQ & CX were experiencing very significant reliability issues with their systems and R/C convinced QF that there system was better technology and more reliable. History now shows that it wasn't. The system was definitely not cheap.

They are doing it again with Panasonic on the A380.

The Panasonic IFE team proudly claim that QF is using more of the features that their system is capable of, than any other airline that has ordered it. The Panasonic facility in the US that has been developing the product for its customer airlines has a secure room for each airline and staff that work on an airline's product are not allowed to enter another airline's room. Obviously, the more system features that you use, the more money you have to pay, so you can't say that Qantas is taking the cheap option.

It will be interesting to see how many of the B744's will be refurbished as there are quite a few scheduled to go to the desert as more A380's arrive. Obviously the 6 B744 ER's and OJS/T/U will be updated but apart from that depends on how long the remaining aircraft will be in service.

Also, they may justify a business case to replace the R/C IFE system in the A330 fleet with the Panasonic system. Reliability issues have caused significant adverse Pax comments in market surveys.

16th Jan 2010, 05:12
The Tiger Lounge

A380 buyer keeps mum about possible luxuries aboard cruise ship of the skies (http://www.seattlepi.com/business/209051_interior24.html)

It does look remarkably like that 2001 though.


PS: TinEye Reverse Image Search (http://www.tineye.com) is excellent for image searches.

16th Jan 2010, 06:33
Having had a look at recent posts, seems to me that IFE systems (whoever makes them) are not as reliable as the airframes in which they are installed. They all make promises which they fail to keep in real-life situations.

I don't think it is about the competence of the airline marketeers.

Then again:E

16th Jan 2010, 09:46
The Panasonic IFE on the 380 is streets ahead of the Rockwell system. While no doubt it has some problems it is still a lot more stable and has less issues than the Rockwell system.

And we must thank Rockwell for not delivering their product on time for the 330s,this is how Panasonic came to be the preferred installation for pretty much the whole fleet from now on.
Hopefully QF arent getting screwed on the service contract by Panasonic like they were from Rockwell.

Going Boeing
16th Jan 2010, 10:09
Bootstrap, the initial R/C IFE system contract had a clause guaranteeing 97% servicability. Rockwell said that this could only be achieved if only their engineers touched the system (ie C/C & QF engineers were not allowed to attempt any rectifications initially). The fact that their engineers could not produce anywhere near the guaranteed reliability meant that there were significant penalty payments. When the warranty period expired, QF engineers took over the IFE servicing and from what I've seen, there has been a significant improvement in the reliability of the system (still not as good as our pax want). Installation of the R/C IFE into the original A330's was made even worse because Airbus wouldn't allow the R/C software engineers access to the "source codes" used by the A330 Cabin Computer system and thus there were significant problems getting the two systems to communicate seamlessly.

You are right about the Panasonic system being streets ahead of R/C. 2 Terrabytes of data storage, no hard-wiring of screens to cards in the main system, electronic data processing circuits in the base of each screen instead of in a box under the seat where people continually kick it, etc. It's at least a generation ahead of the R/C system

16th Jan 2010, 11:20
Having had a look at recent posts, seems to me that IFE systems (whoever makes them) are not as reliable as the airframes in which they are installed.
Is it not correct that a team from Toolose :E is in OZ trying to fix probs with the dugong?
They all make promises which they fail to keep in real-life situations.
That seems to be normal for a lot of computer software packages.
I don't think it is about the competence of the airline marketeers.
Was it true a few years ago with the release from marketing about the mel/jnb services with the problem that ops had to tell them that at certain times of the year it was not possible?
Maketing/sales is a lot like the spin team in political parties.What they would like and what they tell the public is not always reality.
Their job is to either beat the opposition or make it look like they are beating the opposition.whether this is reality or not does not matter.

17th Jan 2010, 10:31
Going Boeing, I beg to differ. At a special S/O briefing many moons ago, John Borghetti said "Geoff Dixon bought the Rockwell Collins system because it was cheap". This is word for word from his mouth. That is why Qantas bought it and no other reason! It was from that day we also knew the 2 didn't see eye to eye on many issues :}

31st Jan 2010, 21:54
Been a few weeks, any update on reconfig and/or IFE?

31st Jan 2010, 22:45
Just waiting for the wooden bench seats and some second hand overhead "hand holds" from the london tube system so they can install them in the ceiling.

31st Jan 2010, 22:57
Ahhh! Retro.;)

1st Feb 2010, 03:30
Its apparently a $450mil intl product revamp which will apparently see:

All B744s in a 3 class config (J,Y+,and Y) featuring the A380 style seats and IFE.

Apparently the Intl A333 and A332 fleet will also recieve the A380 Y class seats and the new A380 style IFE.

Full details to be announced in the next few weeks.

Anyone know more?

1st Feb 2010, 05:29
only 12 A380 a/c to have f/c, last 8 will not have first class seating.
first class will be only on lax and lhr runs.
B747 a/c not being retired will be reconfigured to j/c w/c y/c over the next few years.
looks like a lot of business first flight attendants will be working in economy.... shock-horror.
with only 60 qcca left on the 747 who will be moving to the A380 (december next delivery?) more crew will be needed in economy than business/first class on the 747s. possibly a retrenchment package coming up in 2011 for b/first cabin crew with the delivery of further 380s in the future?

FFG 02
2nd Feb 2010, 01:41
From "The Age" online.

Qantas to dump most first-class seats | Airlines (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-to-dump-most-firstclass-seats-20100202-n9ox.html)

Qantas is planning to dump two-thirds of its first-class airline seats as part of a radical $400 million overhaul of its long-haul fleet.

The changes, which could increase economy seating areas on planes by up to 20 per cent, comes after the world financial crisis sparked a dramatic slump in demand for expensive premium seating on long-distance flights.

Under the scheme that could be announced within weeks, Qantas would retain first class seats only on its London and Los Angeles flights, slashing the number of its first-class planes to 12 from 30, the Australian Financial Review said.

The paper, quoting a leaked reconfiguration plan, said the changes would mean that sumptuous first class bed-seats would be stripped out of all the airline's Boeing 747-400s, leaving 14 first class seats in just 12 Airbus A380 super jumbos.

Qantas confirmed it was in talks with suppliers and manufacturers about implementing changes to its fleet, but declined to offer further details or to confirm the Review story.

"We are considering a number of changes to our fleet including the 747-400 and we are still in early discussions with suppliers and manufacturers," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

"We have flagged previously that Qantas is considering a number of options for our fleet, but it's too premature to provide further details on changes that Qantas may make in the future," she said.

The airline's Chief Executive Alan Joyce said Qantas would continue to offer first class seats after it completes a new seat configuration, the details of which he said were expected to be announced in a few weeks.

"There is a role for first class but it's not as extensive it was in the past," Joyce told CNBC television.

The airline's international business is continuing to suffer, he conceded, adding however that demand for air travel in the domestic market was recovering.

Qantas said last month that its international patronage was down 22.6 per cent in the 12 months to November compared with a year earlier.

2nd Feb 2010, 05:12
by the time the make up their minds and business has improved they once again will be short of aircraft and delay reconfiguration, again continuing with a mixed product.:{

2nd Feb 2010, 06:30
by the time the make up their minds and business has improved they once again will be short of aircraft and delay reconfiguration, again continuing with a mixed product

Time was when there was truth to that. Reconfigs were incorporated in the major maintenance line and turnrounds were measured in months. (Was in that time that a respected beancounter observed that the financial case for a reconfig could never be validated because the next reconfig was started before the previous one could reach its breakeven point)

This time may be different, and I speculate with no inside knowledge, because the A380 deliveries, in part, permit 744 disposal, and the 787 deliveries permit 767 disposal. So if you defer one 744 disposal and one 767 disposal you can create a 744 reconfig line and an A330 reconfig line, both independent of major maintenance and with, maybe 3 week turnrounds.

Pure speculation, but I like it. Of course where you find the hangar space and manpower is probably an industrial stoush away:E

Probably wrong. my track record, like myself, is inferior.

3rd Feb 2010, 06:12
Perhaps being mischievious ... but ...

747-8 ... 400 pax AND their bags in 3 class config (much more than 777) PLUS freight AND able to go more places than another quad .....

oh ..

sorry, the alarm just went off ...

sigh ...

nice dream though.

oh ...yes .... no money in freight ..... doh!


3rd Feb 2010, 07:18
oh ...yes .... no money in freight ..... doh!

The only routes where legacy airlines like longhaul QF make money, are those where inbound freight and genuine First Class co-exist.

That is, historically, LHR, FRA, NRT, LAX, and possibly HKG to SYD and MEL.

All other combinations are less lucrative, including JNB and BUE.

There is no money in International freight outbound from Australia. That's why the wet leases allow a dead (no freight) leg out to Asia, to permit a profitable leg to USA or Europe for the aircraft operator.

3rd Feb 2010, 07:32
I don't mean to rain on your parade noip but the A380 numbers speak for themselves.eg
SYD-SIN a380 450 pax with a fuel load of about 108-112 tonnes
SYD-SIN 744 330-400 pax 95-110 tonnes

SYD-LAX a380 450 pax about 190-200 fuel
SYD-LAX 744 307 pax(pacific config) 160-170 tonnes of fuel

Now I am no bean counter but with some simple arithmetic I reckon the fuel burn per pax is superior on the dugong.
Now there are a lot of 380 naysayers out there but at the end of the day the numbers are in its favour.

And before we start talking about on time departures etc, if you talk to those involved with the entry into service of the 744 they say it was a lot more trouble than the 380 is today. And looking at the 744 fleet today its OTP is pretty damn good for a relic of an aircraft.

Now, wasn't this thread about a reconfig or something.

3rd Feb 2010, 09:11

I was talking about 747-8, but if you want to talk about the current 747 performance ...... A380 excels at pax numbers, however it does no better than the current 747ER at payload over long ranges (and even has problems taking all Pax baggage).

747ER LAX-MEL ... same payload as A380, 30t less fuel burn, but then I was talking about the 747-8 in 3 class ... different and better animal. From what I've been able to see, below 6,000 nm, A380 comes into its own, above that the current 747 has better payload economics.

Your statements about the 744 problems into service re the A380 are not correct. The 744 had problems for about 6 months after it was introduced. QF received their A380s at least a year after it was introduced and had significant problems. But then I'm being dragged into something I was not looking to.....

My original post was that with the 3 class config (now that QF wants to do away with much of First Class ) ..... 747-8 may well be worth looking at - 400 seats 3 class, better seat mile, cheaper overall sector cost ..... wider choice of airports, but then as I said .. not going to happen.


Capt Fathom
3rd Feb 2010, 09:22
but then as I said .. not going to happen

That was a lot of talk for something that's ... not going to happen!

another superlame
3rd Feb 2010, 09:28
The economics of the 747-8 are yet to be proven,so until such time as it has flown the drivel from Boeing is just that drivel.

Also I do believe bootstrap is correct about the 744 EIS. It had issues much longer than 6 months,which I think was due to the wiring termination in the MEC and quite a few software issues but then that is all history.

I will be happy to see the end of the first class pods on the 744,they are and have always been a pain in the bum. And that first class cabin is impossible to keep looking like a first class cabin. While they are there they should change the skybeds as well. they are a flimsy piece of kit that really arent comfortable.
But bring on the recaro economy chairs from the 380.they are a huge improvement.

4th Feb 2010, 05:28
on the 380 the IFE actually works and for 70 extra pax you get 7 extra cabin crew.
beats the hell out of the 744

ditch handle
4th Feb 2010, 07:34
744 Kangaroo config at the moment is 14/52/32/255
Total Pax 353, with 15 cabin crew.
A380 carries 450.

100 extra pax for which they get 7 extra cabin crew :rolleyes:

The Green Goblin
4th Feb 2010, 09:00
Who really cares, close the doors, don't let it hit your arse on the way out and bring us coffee :}

ditch handle
4th Feb 2010, 09:22
Who really cares, call us if you want something, whatever your name is? :ok:

4th Feb 2010, 21:16
Talking about the plastic fantasic A 380.does anyone know how many have been delivered and how many Airbus have to sell to break even let alone make a profit?
By the way this question has been asked a few times but ignored.Can anyone confirm or deny that Airbus has sent a team out to OZ to help fix the problems with the dugong?

4th Feb 2010, 23:52
It looks like they have a way to go before even making a profit then Trent.

My point was that the story I have heard is that a team was sent out late last year or early this year because of the on going problems with the dugong.They were not here when the dugong arrived and are only here because of the problems.

I don't recall Boeing people here when we got the 747's meeting each aircraft and seeing them off.Rockwell Collins yes but not Boeing.

another superlame
5th Feb 2010, 04:25
TBar when the 744ERs were introduced they had fuel system problems and water system problems. If I remember correctly,everytime the first few landed in LAX Boeing were there to upload new software to get the fuel system runnung as designed.
As for the potable water system,well it has never really been fixed and is running on what seem an open dated Engineering Authority.

And yes Airbus has a working party to do mods and stuff like that aren't part of normal service and rectification work.
I guess it is just like taking your car to the dealer for warranty work except that the dealer has sent a few technicians to do the work on site.

I don't think they will be here forever,but they are learning from the defects that have come up on the QF 380s first hand. Which can't be a bad thing as at times explanations can be lost in translation.

5th Feb 2010, 05:02
According to comments from operators late last year the A380 was still ahead of the 747-400 in terms of dispatch reliability for similar service time.

Boeing also regularly sends teams of engineers overseas to assist customers in lifting their reliability. Lufthansa was a prominent case where Boeing sent engineers over to lift the dispatch reliability of their 747 by 2%. It makes sense for a manufacturer to back its product up with technical support and staff if available. I doubt Boeing would have just dumped their 747 on Qantas without backup, just because you didn't see the tech guys there doesn't mean a thing.

5th Feb 2010, 06:17
Today's article from ATW below by Geoffrey Thomas addresses the A380 v’s B747-400 ‘efficiency’ discussions and their respective dispatch reliability records in the first year of operation. Of course it represents the views of the A380 Director-Product Marketing . . . (my bolding).

Singapore Airlines A380s stealing market share, Airbus claims

The A380 is proving a winner on medium-range routes and is lifting passenger loads by up to 8%, Airbus claims. Speaking exclusively to ATWOnline in Singapore, Director-Product Marketing-A380 Richard Carcaillet said Singapore Airlines is delighted with the aircraft's performance on the medium-range Singapore-Hong Kong and Singapore-Tokyo Narita routes.

On the Narita service, SIA, the dominant carrier on the route, has lifted its passenger count by 8% after introducing the A380 while all other airlines have experienced declines, according to Sabre booking data analyzed by Airbus and supplied to this website. ANA dropped 13%, JAL 19%, United Airlines 22% and Delta Air Lines 7%.

While some of the decrease can be attributed to the economic downturn, these figures, which heretofore have been confidential, cover the period of May-December 2008 before the full impact of the downturn was felt. SIA and Qantas are averaging an 83% load factor across their A380 flights, Airbus says.

Carcaillet also told this website that SIA's A380s are achieving a 20% reduction in fuel burn over the 747-400. He said this supports Airbus figures that show the A380 with 525 seats has an 8% fuel burn advantage over the yet-to-fly 405-seat 747-8. Airbus has adjusted its seating figures to reflect the new business class flat beds, while Boeing claims there is just a 100-seat difference between the two jets.

On reliability, Carcaillet said the A380 had a 97% technical dispatch record in the first year, which compares favorably with the 777 at around 98% and is well ahead of the 747-400, which swung between 89% and 93% when it entered commercial operations. Airbus is targeting 98% reliability for the A380 this year. The first major batch of software upgrades was introduced on Ship 33, the first for Air France, and these are "making a difference," he said. The upgrade is being refitted to the other 26 aircraft in service. The A380 has generated approximately 100,000 revenue flight hr. on 10,000 flights.

On the production front, Carcaillet said Airbus will deliver 20 aircraft this year, including three that were supposed to have been delivered in 2009. "We are at 1.5 aircraft a month and moving up to two a month by year end," he noted.

by Geoffrey Thomas

17th Feb 2010, 23:04
Here we go

About Qantas - Media Room - Media Releases (http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2010/feb10/4017)

Details of the changes:
* nine B747-400 will be upgraded and fitted with Qantas' A380 standard seats and inflight product, including a fully flat Skybed sleeper seat in Business, an award-winning Marc Newson designed and Recaro manufactured seat in Economy and state-of-the-art on-demand Panasonic inflight entertainment in all classes
* First class cabins will be removed and Business seats installed in their place
* the three-class configuration will offer 359 seats (58 Business, 36 Premium Economy and 265 Economy), an increase of 52 seats overall
* 12 A380s will continue to fly with a four-class configuration, including First class, but be refitted to reduce Business seating and increase Premium Economy and Economy seating
* the remaining eight aircraft will be delivered from 2012 in a three-class configuration and with no First cabin
* A380 seat numbers are to be confirmed subject to discussions with Airbus and suppliers
The upgrade and reconfiguration program will commence at the end of 2011 and is scheduled for completion by the end of 2013. It will be funded through the combination of operating cash flows and pre-existing debt facilities. The majority of capital expenditure will take place in 2012.
Further details of the program, including where work will be undertaken, will be confirmed once contractual arrangements are finalised.

18th Feb 2010, 02:08
Only 9x B744s will remain in the fleet and they will be the ones getting the upgraded cabins.

Looks like they will not bother to reconfig all the other B744s which by the looks of it will all be gone in the next 2 years.

18th Feb 2010, 03:02
Or painted Orange!:E:sad::p:} tehehehe.....

ditch handle
18th Feb 2010, 03:30
No. Jetstar only get brand new aircraft. :rolleyes:

18th Feb 2010, 06:35
Only 9x B744s will remain in the fleet and they will be the ones getting the upgraded cabins.

Looks like they will not bother to reconfig all the other B744s which by the looks of it will all be gone in the next 2 years.

I'm no expert, but I'd say some will hang around a bit longer.

The upgrade and reconfiguration program will commence at the end of 2011 and is scheduled for completion by the end of 2013.

- so that's not much change out of 4 years to start with.

Also, the article states that 9 744s will be reconfigured, indicating that that 9 will be the ones staying in the fleet; however there will probably be some stragglers which won't get reconfig'ed, but will roll off beyond that time as their D's come up. So, any 744 getting a D between now & when this work starts (the better part of 2 years) will probably be allowed to soldier on (unless it's one of the 9 youngsters).

That said, it wouldn't surprise to see one-for-one replacement at some stage, but I'd suspect the current A380 delivery schedule is not sufficiently ambitious as to allow for 1:1 replacement of 16 airframes (27 currently in service less the 9 being kept) within 2 years.

another superlame
18th Feb 2010, 08:49
More than 9 744s are staying. Some already have a 2 class config with no 1st. They might get upgraded to include premium cattle class.

18th Feb 2010, 09:20
the article states that 9 744s will be reconfigured, indicating that that 9 will be the ones staying in the fleet

How many B744 aircraft have first class now? I think they are saying 9 B744's will have first class removed. Not that 9 will be all that are left.

another superlame
18th Feb 2010, 09:27
No jumbos will have 1st class. 1st class will only be on 12 dugongs. Which is a good thing because 1st class seats/suites are always a prick of a thing to work on.

Bolty McBolt
18th Feb 2010, 22:12
Qantas to pack up to 100 more on its A380s MATT O'SULLIVAN
February 19, 2010
THE A380 superjumbo's reputation for luxury and extra room has given way to commercial reality at Qantas.

It will increase the number of seats on its flagship aircraft by as many as 100 because of a long-term trend of passengers preferring to fly closer to the back.

When the A380 was unveiled in France five years ago, airlines trumpeted that the super-jumbo would offer passengers bigger seats, inflight lounges, double beds and even showers.

But Qantas's decision to squeeze more passengers on its A380s confirms the long-held suspicions that the early euphoria about the flying cruise liners would eventually give way to the bottom-line.

Qantas will have eight of the A380s it has on order with European manufacturer Airbus fitted with 550 seats, instead of its previous plans for fewer than 500. It will also have 12 of the double-deckers - half of which are in service and the rest on the production line in France - retro-fitted to carry 40 more seats. The renovations will result in 50 to 100 more economy-class seats.

In the changes flagged late last year, Qantas will spend $400 million reconfiguring the A380s, as well as on replacing first-class seats on nine 747-400 aircraft with business-class ones. It will also install a new entertainment system on the jumbos. The 747 refits will increase the number of seats from 307 to 359.

The reconfigurations will begin at end of next year and take until late 2013, adding the equivalent of more than three 747-400s to Qantas's fleet.

''It is a very efficient way of getting additional capacity and helps the economics of our operations by between 10 and 15 per cent because there is no more crew required,'' said Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce.

He said most European airlines had 550 seats on their A380s.

Demand for first-class seats has been declining over the last 10 years, and was exacerbated by the global financial crisis. The changes will leave Qantas flying aircraft with first-class cabins on only the London and Los Angeles routes. Last year it dropped the first-class product from flights to Buenos Aires and San Francisco. The next services to go without will be to Hong Kong and Johannesburg flights.

However, Qantas's plans pale in comparison to the Reunion Island-based Air Austral, which flies between Sydney and Paris. It will become the world's first airline to have only economy class on its A380s after last year ordering two of the superjumbos that will seat about 840 passengers.

Yesterday nearly 200 passengers on a Shanghai-bound Qantas plane had to circle above the Tasman Sea for three hours and turn back to Sydney airport because of a landing-gear fault.

18th Feb 2010, 22:45
the number of seats will increase from 307 to 359 on a 744?
kangaroo config currently 14/56/32/256=358.
only 1 more seat?????
i am confused. anyone help out here?

18th Feb 2010, 22:50
inda ...

307 refers to the current Pacific config. So they will be increasing the Pacific config from 307 to 359.


Metro man
19th Feb 2010, 12:25
It's a sensible business decision, why fly an empty first class seat around when you can have three economy ones in it's place. Even if only one is occupied the income will be better than nothing.

Leave the premium passengers to the airlines which have a premium product and concentrate on the mass market instead. Knackered B767s with surly old boilers in the cabin won't cut it against the likes of SQ and CX so why bother trying ?

QF have been in decline for years and now at last realise where they stand.

19th Feb 2010, 18:13
gods in QF think. lets look at it. The prmium airline continues to be a mix of very un premium products.
A380 will get more Y/c seats
B747 will have evantually 9 reconfidured and many Not reconfigured J/C W/C and Y/C products
767's international/domestic continue to provide a 70's J/C /Y/C product
A330's will continue to have the less then flat bed, a lousy IFE system and no premium economy.
domestic A330's have different J/C seats,IFE ext
domestic 737-400/800 old and new version different J/c products,IFE etc

Nothing like consistancy :yuk:

Transition Layer
19th Feb 2010, 19:58

Am I missing something?

So the re-config's are starting at the END of next year? Is that a timely reaction? What will the market be like at the end of next year?

Perhaps they are sitting on their hands until the end of next year and see how the market is progressing. If things have picked up sufficiently they may put the project on the back burner and keep the first class seats, who knows.

20th Feb 2010, 04:18
Any truth to the news that an A330 mini cabin refresh which will begin shortly?

Intl A333/A332s will receive the new Panasonic IFE system and have the new (red) Y class seat covers (already on Intl A332s) plus the new A380 style carpet and curtains installed?

22nd Feb 2010, 04:19
Hello to you chaps at QANTAS,:) could you put in row of deck chairs around row 50 for me and the wife. And dont forget the mini bar fridge underneath where the life vest usually goes.:ok:

22nd Feb 2010, 09:04
It must be a bugger when an aircraft change is required with so many config versions of each plane. Oh ,and a comment about cathays service. Its not that crash hot down in pondlife on a 777 from hkg-mel. For a start you cant get both legs under the seat in front
with the IFE box occupying the space , and its like the mary celeste after the meal service is over l can tell you, and no point in fingering the stewardess call bell either. They are as surly as the rest only younger and a lot less fat!

25th Feb 2010, 03:13
If P class disappears, where will all the staff sit on duty travel? Not to mention the pilots and exec mgrs on staff travel? heaven forbid - sounds like a recipe for more disgruntlement.

25th Feb 2010, 06:17
Not to mention the pilots and exec mgrs on staff travel? heaven forbid - sounds like a recipe for more disgruntlement.

Most pilots realise now that even on a "High Priority" Long Service Leave trip their chances of getting any seat on an International flight is significantly reduced, as various staff with apparently far more responsible roles:rolleyes: (regardless of length of service) in the company command a much higher priority than long serving staff.

By adjusting onload and upgrade staff categories Qantas have effectively made international travel far more practical, comfortable and relaxing on someone else's airline.

ditch handle
25th Feb 2010, 06:29
Try ZED fares. They beat staff travel hands down.

20th Aug 2010, 10:48
I heard talk last week that the 2 class B744s will be getting a reconfig of some sort over the next few months....

Y+ seats being finally added.

Hopefully they add the new Y class seat covers as well as the updated carpets and curtains to match the rest of the B744 fleet!