When to inflate the life jacket?

[Rwy in Sight]

On my last two flights as I was paying attention to the safety briefing and the instructions were, if using the overwing exit to inflate the life jacket after leaving the aircraft. Previously and at another carrier the instruction was to inflate the jacket as one was leaving the aircraft. I understand the reasons not to inflate the life jacket jacket inside the aircraft and I am confused why it is ok to inflate the life jacket to inflate the jacket why still inside the aircraft while heading to a normal exit.

I am concerned about heading to a normal exit, having inflate the life jacket then find the exit blocked and having to go an overwing exit and block it. What happens in that case?

Which is the policy in your airline about inflating the life jacket?


I hope my thinking makes sense!


Rwy in Sight

[TheOptimist]

You answer your own question - "inflate the life jacket when you are leaving the aircraft"

Leaving doesn't mean the moment you get up from your seat, it means as you are stepping out of the aircraft.

[airtimegrl11]

makes sense to do it as you are leaving :{

[GS-Alpha]

The idea is that the aircraft may be filling up with water if it has ditched. You inflate your life jacket in the aircraft and you will float to the top of the water inside the the cabin. If the water has come to the top of the door, you will find it impossible to get out because your life jacket will prevent you from ducking below the surface in order to get out the doorway. Even if there is no water in the aircraft, as you go out the door, a wave may splash against the doorway. With an inflated life jacket on, you will find it very difficult to get out of the door in those circumstances. And finally, moving about the cabin with a big balloon on you is going to severely hinder your mobility and hence the speed with which you and your fellow passengers exit the aircraft.

So you are best to only inflate your jacket when you are certain that you are not going to end up back inside the doorway.

[boardingpass]

keep paying attention to the demo... in my book it means as you're jumping into the water... and NEVER inside.

[Rwy in Sight]

boardingpass,

Thanks for the advice. My question is that: company says not to inflate the life jacket if leaving the aircraft from an overwing exit. That means it is ok to inflate it if using the "normal exits". By the way are rear exit on an A320 usable on a ditching?

So if a pax is heading to a rear or front exit he may have inflate the life jacket creating a hazard for himself and the others. Is it correct? If it is, that means the good practice is to inflate the life jacket the moment ones abandons the aircraft. Again, is it correct?

Rwy in Sight

[Glamgirl]

Rwy in Sight,

The airline I work for state in the safety briefing that "Do not inflate your lifejacket until you leave the aircraft".

This counts for overwing exits as well as "normal" doors. If you should ever end up in a ditching situation (heaven forbid), do not head towards the rear of the aircraft. It's highly unlikely you'd be able to use the rear doors, due to how the aircraft is designed to float in such an event.

To clarify: Primary exits in a ditching is the overwing exits. Other exits may be used if the door is above the water line. Do not inflate your life jacket until you leave the aircraft, as in jumping out the door.

I can't at this moment in time remember the airline, but some years ago, there was a ditching where quite a few of the passengers who survived the impact drowned due to them inflating the life jacket inside the aircraft. The water came in quick, they floated to the top and couldn't get out. Someone might be able to put a link on here at some point.

Hope this helps.

Gg

[Slickster]

Airlines don't advertise it, for obvious reasons, but anyone inflating their life-jacket, before being "in the clear" is signing their own death warrant. You will simply float to the top of the cabin, then drown, as I believe many did aboard the Ethiopian Airways flight that ditched a few years back.

Only inflate your life-jacket when clear of the aircraft; you're much better off being a good swimmer, but the life-jacket will come into it's own if you have to spend any time in the water. The point is, there should be no rush to inflate it.

[Slickster]

National Geographic's series "How to Survive a Plane Crash" cited Flight 961 as an example of why passengers must not inflate lifejackets until after exiting the plane. The pilot of Flight 961 had advised passengers to put on lifejackets but not inflate them. However, numerous panicking passengers did not heed the warning and inflated them while they were still in the fuselage. This meant that as the cabin flooded, they were pushed upward against the ceiling; making it impossible to dive and reach the exits, leaving them trapped inside the sinking fuselage.

Here's a link...

Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961)

[Litebulbs]

When ditching yes, but just think about airbags and bending double around seat belts on impact to firm ground.

Still, as a percentage, you have more chance of hitting water, than land, unless of course, more accidents happen close to where you land, rather than the sea. Still, we could all face backwards in our seats. Far safer, but not the ultimate customer experience.

One question though, would you rather spend more money preventing a crash, than surviving one?

[vodkaholic]

However, there was on ditching incident (cant remember which now think it was one where the plane was hijacked) where people only survived because they HAD inflated their LJ inside the aircraft. As the aeroplane hit the water it borke up, flinging the pax in all directions. Because they had already inflated their LJs, when they ended up in water they floated...and survived.

However, I think 99.9% (if not 100%) of airlines say not to inflate your LJ inside the aircraft for the reasons stated above (which are more likely to happen that my example above)

And yes in the A320 you can use the rear doors in a ditching.

[Dual ground]

"On my last two flights as I was paying attention to the safety briefing and the instructions were, if using the overwing exit to inflate the life jacket after leaving the aircraft. Previously and at another carrier the instruction was to inflate the jacket as one was leaving the aircraft."

Firstly I'm not CC, but an unlicensed avionics technician so I am not offering this as a definitive answer, but what I believe to be a logical explantition for the difference.

If you are abandoning the aircraft from an overwing exit the chances are that an inflated life jacket will severely hamper your progress, or perhaps even make it impossible to get out. Working on aircraft in heavy maintenance I have used overwing exits to access the wing upper surface and believe me it is not the biggest aperture in the world.

Whilst I don't claim to be sylph like, by any stretch of the imgination, I do manage to exit and enter the aircraft without any problem. I would, however, not want to try it with a inflated lifejacket increasing my body diameter by several inches.

Exiting from a main entry door is another matter. Inflating the lifejacket AFTER reaching the door threshold and then exiting the aircraft should be no problem.

[Teddy Robinson]

simple .. after your aircraft has alighted on the water, wait for it to come to a complete halt.

Calmly exit your seat when invited to release your seat belts by the cabin attendants, and slowly move forward in the queue for the nearest emergency exit.

If you are stepping onto the wing having used an over wing exit, be sure to remove ones heels as they may damage the paintwork.

At this point flag down a passing liferaft / cruiseliner, and determine the point when it may be necessary to inflate the jacket in order to preserve ones makeup (if not of the waterproof variety).

If you are wearing expensive clothing you may choose to reconsider the use of the life vest altogether as it may cause irreparable creasing.

Please note that the above procedure requires a similar set of improbable circumstances to those you will have read on the safety leaflet now floating somewhere in the vicinity of the wreckage.

TR :E

[bbear75]

Nice One TR! I am always amused during the saftey demo that pax pay little attention to exit locations, how the oxygen system works and I always wonder if they really know how to Brace and what the commands are..... BUT...... everyone looks up when you pull out that lifejacket! It suddenly becomes the most interesting thing on the plane..... personally, I find the other safety features alot more important to the preservation of ones' life..... not many situations where the lifejacket is used with sucess, unfortunately.

[Teddy Robinson]

Well the Potomac one would have had a few more survivors had they realised that the packages floating in the freezing water were in fact life jackets.
Decent operators now show the package they live in !!

Tongue in cheek .. but there is a serious edge to what I'm illustrating.

[TFlyguy]

Hate to differ with vodkaholic but on the hijacked Ethiopian 767 more people died because they inflated their lifejackets than survived becuase of it.

When the cabin came to rest underwater it was neccessary to swim down to get to the exits/cabin breaks and with an inflated life jacket that is almost impossible.

For the same reason, if you have a lifejacket that needs to be tied, always tie in a double bow as instructed. This way if for some reason it becomes inflated and you need to remove it to swim down you are able to. If its tied in a knot that may not be possible.

[avionic type]

Apart from the New York incident has an aircraft sucessfully landed in the sea with engines on pylons I would have thought landing anything other than a dead calm sea is a disaster

[Cato]

Hi there, a question. (I'm not CC, just SLF)
When we're told to tie the tapes in a double bow, can you clarify what you mean by double bow?
My understanding of it is, a normal bow, and then you tie the two loops of the bow together. (if this is the case, then that would be difficult if not impossible to untie, especially when wet, as mentioned in TFlyguys post) So when you say double bow, do you mean just a bow like anyone would tie a shoelace? :confused:

[Mr Optimistic]

Sad to admit but I once found myself worrying about that too. It's a normal bow with the loops tied again as you suggest. The odds of being in such an incident and then having to untie the jacket are outrageous so I don't think you should lie awake about that. Deciding the best 'brace' position to avoid broken ankles or neck is a bit higher up the scale.

[IFLy4Free]

I am a trainer and generally have the announcement say "after leaving the aircraft". When I train in ditchings I have the flight attendant inflate the vest as they are jumping into the pool - not before. Also we train to use overwing exits in a ditching as primary exits as the main exit may be below water level. On a turbo prop aircraft we train to use the overwing exits and not the floor level exits as those exits may be below the water level. On aircraft with slide/rafts generally the aft exit is not used but this depends on the attitude of the aircraft once in the water.

[Cato]

Thanks, you're absolutely right of course.
The life jacket, inflated, would make a useful airbag substitute for a brace type landing though wouldn't it?!
I only mention this as on 6/11/09 I was LHR-MAN with BMI and had an aborted landing :eek: VERY sharp, sudden ascent when we were 1-2 mins from landing, then went around 3 times. Captain said there had been bird strike ahead of us (feasible, as it was 5.30 ish)
I did start to wonder what sort of landing we were in for but it was OK.
Lots of screaming from other pax though!
While they were doing that, I was mentally re-checking where the exits where and making sure I knew how the door operated!! :)

[CornishFlyer]

A go-around caused that sort of reaction? What a bunch of hysterical pax there were on that flight then! For a very sharp and sudden ascent as you describe, I doubt you were 1-2 mins from the airfield. If there was a bird strike in ahead of the aircraft, doesn't mean there'll be another or that it'll cause an accident. Some people just panic too much

[Cato]

Agree completely re screaming pax. I wanted to punch the man sitting next to me.
I wonder if there's any way of finding out what was happening to cause our aborted landing. We landed 22 mins late, after being told in-flight that he anticipated landing early.
My husband was parked in a nearby pub car-park, with views of the runway, waiting for me to phone and say I'd collected luggage and was ready to be picked up at the departure drop-off zone. He saw my a/c land, but didn't see any other problems before us.

[NGsim]

One major international airline states during it's safety briefing to pull 1 tag of the lifejacket inside of the aircraft and the other after vacating!!! :confused:

Seems a little like hedging your bets and not really having a clue to me!!!

[Coopz67]

Interesting subject.
We have recently finished filming a new safety video for an airline who shall remain nameless. On set we were told to not inflate the jacket for the purpose of the video. On account that on some routes, non frequent flyers, shall we say, actually copied the video and lo and behold a cabin full of passengers with life jackets fully inflated was observed. An urban myth ?
Perhaps. For our purposes we decided to film an inflate and deflate. Soon realized that we were in fact asphyxiating the actor. It seems they inflate quite tight, so as to support the head in water. Fortunately we were able to release air through the manual inflate tubes and restore said actors now purple head back to pink. So I'd wait until I felt the cold freezing water sink through my clothes before pulling the red toggles.
One other thing, the light that activates in water !! Well it didn't and when we finally got one to work after soaking it in a bucket for half an hour, we fear that no one would spot a fairy light in the middle of the ocean.

Coopz

[tonni]

Yes, right say inflate the life jacket is necessary when leaving the aircraft , its a plus point in safety.