TFS-MAN Routing question....

[PT6A]

Just a question regarding the TFS-MAN Routings....

If there is anyone on the forum with easyJet or Monarch...

EZY1906 16/11/09 BIMBO VABEM ASMAR XERES UP46 BEGAS T9 LASNO UP600 CRK UW10 LIFFY UL975 LYNAS

MON569 16/11/09 BIMBO NAVIX T16 OMOKO UN486 BANDU UN486 CRK UP600 DUB UL975 LIFFY L975 LYNAS

Both airlines are using the same type of equipment EZY 320 and MON 321, both are in the Tango routes so avoiding some of the overflight charges...

But why are easyJet taking the longer (time wise) flight plan routing on this flight?

Are Monarch using Jeppesen flight planning or have they too switched over to Lido OC?

Just something i was curious about!

PT6A

[Halcyon Days]

Times of departure may have been different and would therefore be using very different upper wind forecasts?
One aircraft may have been heavier (ie more pax/payload etc) and achievable initial higher flight levels may have been reduced accordingly-making it more economical to take a lower flight level and preferential winds on that route?

[PT6A]

Both going at the same time... and their load factors tend to be about the same around 85%...

What system is Monarch using for their flight planning?

Oh... and it appears easy stick to that route.. and Monarch stick to theirs..... day in day out.

Pt6A

[Grasscarp]

I asked the question on a recent visit to Eurocontrol as to why some flights were on unnecessarily long routes. I was told that when they suggested a reroute to one airline they were told, no, we cant use that route, it isnt in our database!!!!

[PT6A]

easy are using the shorter route in terms of track miles...

However they appear (by my flight planning and webasd data) to be burining more fuel and taking longer....

I must be missing something as the people running their flight plans are far from stupid! Just curious as to what it is...


PT6A

[Grasscarp]

You can take longer if you are at a different flight level, have less advantageous winds, flying at a slower speed, or are not given possible short cuts. This would burn more fuel as would things like having a greater degradation factor, less efficient engines, heavier weight etc etc

[Lauderdale]

Are Monarch using Jeppesen flight planning or have they too switched over to Lido OC?


Uhm...MON are not a Jeppy customer have not ever been or at least not for the last decade or so....I believe they use Air Data.

[737-500]

As far as I know you have to have ETOPS approval to use T16 airway. Maybe its a case that MON have ETOPS clearance and EZY do not, which would mean they have to use T9 airway which is closer to diversion airfields than T16.

[Grasscarp]

In previous discussions on this website it was stated that T16 does not have an ETOPs requirement, though some said that it should. Perhaps that explains why someone would not use it even though they are not prevented from doing so.

[763 jock]

T16 is not ETOPS and there are no special requirements.

[Lauderdale]

...apart from the fact that you are flying in MNPS airspace and associated requirements....

;)

[PT6A]

I guess the charges would explain it... However Monarch and easyJet are both in the Tango routes? I will run it through Jetplan and see what it says is the route cost...

On a side note....

Now that easy are using Lido OC are they planning their flights (Airbus) with a fixed cost index, variable by city pair or on a per flight basis?

What CI are they currently using on their 320 fleet.. I know a while back it was 19.. but I hear it is currently less...

My outfit have drop ours back to 5 now

[j140870]

My bad, mis-calculated ERC. Mon ERC's are actually slightly cheaper (6.5K v 7.4K).

So given that and EZY are flying longer then unless they are flying very slow and the burn penalty is much less I don't know what is going on. Maybe MON are flying Fixec Mach ( & fast ) and slow and efficient is the way to go to offset the higher ERC.

:eek:

[eagerbeaver1]

I asked ops for a re-routing to Las Palmas as it took us through Spain then FES the ADM finally onto LPA.

I was refused it because the OPS chap reckons that T9 is more than 250 miles from land? I have no idea what this 250 mile reference is (nothing in our OPS manual) Does anyone?

Now my question, is T9 an ETOPS route? Is T16 an ETOPS route?

[Torque2]

No, neither T9 nor T16 are ETOPS for A320 1 hr single engine diversion.

[eagerbeaver1]

So I can fly my 738 down those airways with no transgression of the law?

[Torque2]

Provided you have the required nav and communications fit/performance there should not be a problem. A320 and 738/9's use them daily.